I love your posts STRM - I have no idea WHY I relate differently to EMDR T and to P - maybe it is like some people you talk to and some people you are friends with, why some and not others? EMDR T feels like a friend - and I would feel decidedly weird asking a friend for such holding, a hug yes, but that kind of holding - no.
I am sure it will reveal itself in time. Maybe I am still in the early days with EMDR T, I have only known her since December and I have known P since september.
thank you so much for posting.
Sadly,
Fair enough. I was just curious.
Fair enough. I was just curious.
I pondered this some more, and it is like saying to a small child who wants its mummy "but don't you want the nice nursery/creche worker instead? Don;t you want this nice nurse? why do you want your Mummy? Why are your mummy's hugs and cuddles important to you but your creche worker's are not wanted by you when you are hurting really bad? Can't you just let them comfort you instead as they are offereing?" The small child just cries even louder for their mummy. 
that is what it is like with me and the P. He IS my attachment figure.
Painful though it is to admit sometimes
that is what it is like with me and the P. He IS my attachment figure.
Painful though it is to admit sometimes
Sadly, I hope that your session goes well today and that you and you P will be able to work through whatever his answer may be.
Butterfly
Butterfly
It took me 3/4 of the session to get near to even bringing the darned holding topic up. I told him how it came about that my first T held me and then how the second and third did. Then about how ex C held me and how that happened and how I feel when I am being held and why it is important to me. I said how I know that the therapeutic community is so split on this one, half are TOTALLY against and the other half are TOTALLY for.
He is so open. He said that physically touching a client/patient was 'trained out of him' so he has that going on, and also that he is talking to his trusted colleagues and his supervisor - I apologized for putting him in such a difficult challenging position. He also said, when I got really upset again, 'Would it help if I move my chair closer to you, if I come nearer?" and I said yes, and it did help. It did not feel like he was just watching me on the other side of the room.
I was fully in that burn pain, six months old and dying from the pain, losing it, lost in excruciating pain. that is twice now I have felt that with him, once last week that felt re traumatising and then this week but with him moving nearer, that did not feel quite so traumatic.
when I pulled myself out of it, which took a while, I said that you wouldn't leave an animal in such pain, you would shoot it.
" Or hold it" he said.
Right when I was leaving I said that I had brought my blanket in, and I knew I felt like I was asking too much, but could I have my blanket there? could he look after it for me.
he looked perturbed. He said that would I mind bringing it next week and that would give him a week to see if there was somewhere he could put it? As he could not think of anywhere. (becos it is the NHS, we use four rooms in a communal Mental Health building and he does not have an office of his own as he works else where the rest of the week, so logistically I think he has no space only a small filing cabinet.
to my embarassment, I said I would take home sheild and half of bear if he could keep my blanket, and I squashed blanket right down to show him how little room it can take up, but he still said he wanted to see if he had room.
I don't think I will take it next week, it felt like I has asked too much.
He is so open. He said that physically touching a client/patient was 'trained out of him' so he has that going on, and also that he is talking to his trusted colleagues and his supervisor - I apologized for putting him in such a difficult challenging position. He also said, when I got really upset again, 'Would it help if I move my chair closer to you, if I come nearer?" and I said yes, and it did help. It did not feel like he was just watching me on the other side of the room.
I was fully in that burn pain, six months old and dying from the pain, losing it, lost in excruciating pain. that is twice now I have felt that with him, once last week that felt re traumatising and then this week but with him moving nearer, that did not feel quite so traumatic.
when I pulled myself out of it, which took a while, I said that you wouldn't leave an animal in such pain, you would shoot it.
" Or hold it" he said.
Right when I was leaving I said that I had brought my blanket in, and I knew I felt like I was asking too much, but could I have my blanket there? could he look after it for me.
he looked perturbed. He said that would I mind bringing it next week and that would give him a week to see if there was somewhere he could put it? As he could not think of anywhere. (becos it is the NHS, we use four rooms in a communal Mental Health building and he does not have an office of his own as he works else where the rest of the week, so logistically I think he has no space only a small filing cabinet.
to my embarassment, I said I would take home sheild and half of bear if he could keep my blanket, and I squashed blanket right down to show him how little room it can take up, but he still said he wanted to see if he had room.
I don't think I will take it next week, it felt like I has asked too much.
(((((Sadly)))))
I'm glad he is moving closer and I hope he has an answer for you soon and doesn't leave you in limbo.
I sometimes feel that same way, like I'm crying out for my dad. I know T is right when he says to take my hurt, loss and need to God, but sometimes I hear it as a rejection, that it's not OK for me to need him.
I'm glad he is moving closer and I hope he has an answer for you soon and doesn't leave you in limbo.
I sometimes feel that same way, like I'm crying out for my dad. I know T is right when he says to take my hurt, loss and need to God, but sometimes I hear it as a rejection, that it's not OK for me to need him.
Sadly,
I am glad that him moving his chair closer to you provided some comfort for you. I do hope that he decides to allow you to bring the blanket, though I can see why you wouldn't want to now given his initial reaction.
I am glad that him moving his chair closer to you provided some comfort for you. I do hope that he decides to allow you to bring the blanket, though I can see why you wouldn't want to now given his initial reaction.
Thanks for your comments, I appreciate them. I think it is interesting that in asking him to keep a blanket there for me, I felt I had over stepped a mark, but in asking him to hold me I did not, but I knew he would almost certainly think differently.
there is a song by Katie Melua, which goes,
"the line between wrong and right
is the width of a thread in a spider's web
the piano keys are black and white
but they sound like a million colours in your mind."
What is right and what is wrong here is so hard to discern.
Even I am not sure that him holding me is a good thing. And I am feel awful for causing him such upheaval in even asking him to consider it.
And the blanket felt like I had asked for the earth. I feel ASHAMED. Like I have been caught out assuming too much.
I am just crying right now, which is not a good time to post. I just want my first T, I want her to hold me and I want to not hurt this awful hurting.
It even hurts to see him so entangled in the ' to hold or not to hold' question. I can see that he wants to - but he is not sure it is right. It is agony to see him in that quandary. I wish I wish I wish I was not so in need of his holding.
It tried so hard to explain it to him today.
One thing that was really clear was that I was observed and watched as a baby, even when in life threatening pain, as to touch me would have contaminated the burns and disintegrating skin and muscle. That is why when I am in that, I cry out "Please do not just sit there and watch me, don't just look at me, stop it, stop it, " and I try to hide. I cannot bear that feeling of being in great pain and being watched/observed. It feels too cruel. I am too alone.
I said to day that I felt like I am on the darkest side of the dark side of the moon. so alone.
I also explained how I don't even feel jealous of other clients he must see, I don't and I never have of other therapists either, and when i looked at it to see why, it is because, wait for it - I don't really feel he exists once he goes, he is either there or he is not there, - and that is just what it must feel like for a small baby. sigh.
STRM - I did not think you were minimising my attachment to P - I just thought you were finding where I am at difficult to understand so I was happy to clarify and your questions helped me to understand it for myself. I think I would find it easier to have attached to EMDR t - who would hold me and cuddle me and happily so - but unfortunately I attached to P and then later she came along and I am very happy relating to her like an equal - I can talk to her in ways I cannot to P - but it is P I long to see and P I miss with an ache in my heart, and P that my very hurt self sobs for. Sigh. I shall remember what you said though and try asking for more touch from EMDR T. It might help.
the probability of him saying yes, went up to 36% at the end of the session.
but will go down again to about 10% when he reads what I left him to read. I left him to read about how my last male therapist abused me in the last six months of the relationship. I wrote out the awful graphic details. bad timing really - as that will make him VERY hands off - but I felt it was only fair that he knew what the false T did. P has always known that I was sexually assaulted by a T who was struck off for it, but he did not know the extent of the abuse.
sigh again.
So if any of you are laying bets, I think we have more of a chance of no still but I also know that this P is so exceptional, that if he thinks holding me is the right thing for ME, he will seriously consider it. How cool is that.
But he is not rushing his decision and he has to do what HE feels okay with too.
there is a song by Katie Melua, which goes,
"the line between wrong and right
is the width of a thread in a spider's web
the piano keys are black and white
but they sound like a million colours in your mind."
What is right and what is wrong here is so hard to discern.
Even I am not sure that him holding me is a good thing. And I am feel awful for causing him such upheaval in even asking him to consider it.
And the blanket felt like I had asked for the earth. I feel ASHAMED. Like I have been caught out assuming too much.
I am just crying right now, which is not a good time to post. I just want my first T, I want her to hold me and I want to not hurt this awful hurting.
It even hurts to see him so entangled in the ' to hold or not to hold' question. I can see that he wants to - but he is not sure it is right. It is agony to see him in that quandary. I wish I wish I wish I was not so in need of his holding.
It tried so hard to explain it to him today.
One thing that was really clear was that I was observed and watched as a baby, even when in life threatening pain, as to touch me would have contaminated the burns and disintegrating skin and muscle. That is why when I am in that, I cry out "Please do not just sit there and watch me, don't just look at me, stop it, stop it, " and I try to hide. I cannot bear that feeling of being in great pain and being watched/observed. It feels too cruel. I am too alone.
I said to day that I felt like I am on the darkest side of the dark side of the moon. so alone.
I also explained how I don't even feel jealous of other clients he must see, I don't and I never have of other therapists either, and when i looked at it to see why, it is because, wait for it - I don't really feel he exists once he goes, he is either there or he is not there, - and that is just what it must feel like for a small baby. sigh.
STRM - I did not think you were minimising my attachment to P - I just thought you were finding where I am at difficult to understand so I was happy to clarify and your questions helped me to understand it for myself. I think I would find it easier to have attached to EMDR t - who would hold me and cuddle me and happily so - but unfortunately I attached to P and then later she came along and I am very happy relating to her like an equal - I can talk to her in ways I cannot to P - but it is P I long to see and P I miss with an ache in my heart, and P that my very hurt self sobs for. Sigh. I shall remember what you said though and try asking for more touch from EMDR T. It might help.
the probability of him saying yes, went up to 36% at the end of the session.
but will go down again to about 10% when he reads what I left him to read. I left him to read about how my last male therapist abused me in the last six months of the relationship. I wrote out the awful graphic details. bad timing really - as that will make him VERY hands off - but I felt it was only fair that he knew what the false T did. P has always known that I was sexually assaulted by a T who was struck off for it, but he did not know the extent of the abuse.
sigh again.
So if any of you are laying bets, I think we have more of a chance of no still but I also know that this P is so exceptional, that if he thinks holding me is the right thing for ME, he will seriously consider it. How cool is that.
But he is not rushing his decision and he has to do what HE feels okay with too.
ooops, I seem to have accidentally logged in under the wrong name for that post above, corrected now I hope
quote:And the blanket felt like I had asked for the earth. I feel ASHAMED. Like I have been caught out assuming too much.
(((Sadly))))
I know you feel ashamed. It comes across in your post. That is one of the most difficult emotions for me to carry and it breaks my heart to hear that you are feeling that way now.
I'm so very sorry for how that blanket thing was handled. I think perhaps T just needed some time to think about it. Better to think first and then act rather than act and then later regret his actions. Perhaps he fears that if he lets one patient bring in a blanket, suddenly he will have 20 patients bringing in blankets.
Perhaps after he has had some time to process it, he will come to realize that he is okay with it. I certainly hope that is what happens.
I do feel ashamed. I don't want to take the blanket ever again . I just feel embarrassed even thinking about it.
but actually I do think it is purely a space issue and he did repeat that he wanted me to bring it back next session - as he might have worked out a place he could put it by then.
So he IS being kind. I have to cut him some slack and try to bring my blanket back.
Sigh.
He did suggest I bring in a recording device next session and he can say things and then when Imiss him terribly I can listen to his voice talking to me.
how lovely is THAT!
I went pink with delight and said 'yes please!"
How kind of him. I did not even dare to think of such a thing, after the ex C and the rows we had about things like that.
and he just SUGGESTS it himself!
but actually I do think it is purely a space issue and he did repeat that he wanted me to bring it back next session - as he might have worked out a place he could put it by then.
So he IS being kind. I have to cut him some slack and try to bring my blanket back.
Sigh.
He did suggest I bring in a recording device next session and he can say things and then when Imiss him terribly I can listen to his voice talking to me.
how lovely is THAT!
I went pink with delight and said 'yes please!"
How kind of him. I did not even dare to think of such a thing, after the ex C and the rows we had about things like that.
and he just SUGGESTS it himself!
quote:He did suggest I bring in a recording device next session and he can say things and then when Imiss him terribly I can listen to his voice talking to me.
I would be both embarrassed and ecstatic if my T suggested that!!!
quote:So he IS being kind. I have to cut him some slack and try to bring my blanket back.
Sigh.
Sadly,
I am glad that although you are embarrassed, you are able to recognize that he is a kind person and does care about you.
I also think its sweet that he is allowing you to record your sessions so that you have something to play back when you miss him. I sometimes listen to old messages from T1 when I am missing her. Even when I don't listen to them, just knowing that they are there on my phone if I want to listen to them really helps me feel connected.
Sadly,
I'm glad you are going to bring the blanket back in. It does sound like he is being kind and it is just a space issue.
I'm also very happy he suggested recording something for you. We have a couple of recordings from T. One is a story that she read to us about staying connected when we are apart and the other is a guided imagery/hypnosis thing. I hope it brings you comfort to have something recorded.
I'm glad you are going to bring the blanket back in. It does sound like he is being kind and it is just a space issue.
I'm also very happy he suggested recording something for you. We have a couple of recordings from T. One is a story that she read to us about staying connected when we are apart and the other is a guided imagery/hypnosis thing. I hope it brings you comfort to have something recorded.
quote:Originally posted by Sadly:
He did suggest I bring in a recording device next session and he can say things and then when I miss him terribly I can listen to his voice talking to me.
how lovely is THAT!
That is wonderful! Although... I would probably get too attached to the recording and listen to it every minute I could spare, which - needless to say - is not healthy, nor normal. Then again, if it could get me out of my dark moods like a session can, surely that would only be a good thing... Must give this some more thought. And think of a way to have her suggest it... ;-)
I am so looking forward to having his voice on recording. I shall report back whether I play it all the time or just when I need it
I am also in the process of putting my blankie in a zip lock air tight travel squash up bag - to see if he will keep it there if it is much smaller.
And waiting to see if he phones me back as I left him a message to phone me about an hour ago.
Need - I find it so hard. When is need and reaching out appropriate and when it is just me wanting to hear his voice and not wanting to do anything else until I do. Am I being a wimp? I remember AG posted on this recently and I have to accept that my feelings and my needs are not to be judged and they just ARE. It is so hard. Even now I am assuming he will be thinking " I must train her NOT to phone me very Monday!" (I have phoned on a MOnday the last five Mondays!)
Sigh. I want to be an independent mature adult. Not this. But I must remember COAL = curiosity, openenss, acceptance and love for all the various states we get into.
LATER:
He rang me. He talked to me sanely and reasonably for, oh, ages. He doesn't yell at me.
Sometimes he says things I really am too astonished by to actually hear, like, "Well we need to work out what works best for you and we can take that slowly if you keep working on telling me what you are finding difficult, whether it is the room we are in or the way I am responding, or whatever you are finding difficult." He stressed that it was okay to ask about blanket or whatever it is that I ask, asking is always alright. That is such a new way of looking at things.
He also said that my approach of telling him things, even the things I find so hard to tell, is the way through, it really is. He keeps repeating that. I am still amazed at what I am telling him. I just keep telling him stuff that I have just kept hidden before and with him, I am TELLING. It hurts. It hurts terribly.
I told him that I like so much the way he DELIBERATES so carefully about what to do. I like that. It makes me feel safe. He says " oh sometimes I just feel uncertain or unsure and need more time to think it through" and I replied "But that is what I find so safe about you, you don't RUSH, and you keep my best interests in mind before you do or say things so that I feel in safe hands. And you spend time working it through and that is good - I like it. thank you."
I am also in the process of putting my blankie in a zip lock air tight travel squash up bag - to see if he will keep it there if it is much smaller.
And waiting to see if he phones me back as I left him a message to phone me about an hour ago.
Need - I find it so hard. When is need and reaching out appropriate and when it is just me wanting to hear his voice and not wanting to do anything else until I do. Am I being a wimp? I remember AG posted on this recently and I have to accept that my feelings and my needs are not to be judged and they just ARE. It is so hard. Even now I am assuming he will be thinking " I must train her NOT to phone me very Monday!" (I have phoned on a MOnday the last five Mondays!)
Sigh. I want to be an independent mature adult. Not this. But I must remember COAL = curiosity, openenss, acceptance and love for all the various states we get into.
LATER:
He rang me. He talked to me sanely and reasonably for, oh, ages. He doesn't yell at me.
Sometimes he says things I really am too astonished by to actually hear, like, "Well we need to work out what works best for you and we can take that slowly if you keep working on telling me what you are finding difficult, whether it is the room we are in or the way I am responding, or whatever you are finding difficult." He stressed that it was okay to ask about blanket or whatever it is that I ask, asking is always alright. That is such a new way of looking at things.
He also said that my approach of telling him things, even the things I find so hard to tell, is the way through, it really is. He keeps repeating that. I am still amazed at what I am telling him. I just keep telling him stuff that I have just kept hidden before and with him, I am TELLING. It hurts. It hurts terribly.
I told him that I like so much the way he DELIBERATES so carefully about what to do. I like that. It makes me feel safe. He says " oh sometimes I just feel uncertain or unsure and need more time to think it through" and I replied "But that is what I find so safe about you, you don't RUSH, and you keep my best interests in mind before you do or say things so that I feel in safe hands. And you spend time working it through and that is good - I like it. thank you."
My EMDR therapist was so sweet to me yesterday, she wrapped me in the blanket she keeps for me, gave me earl grey tea and chocolate hearts to eat and let me talk and sleep and generally just have a safe space. She was so kind. she also put both her hands on me so that I felt she was there.She would hold me if I asked but I find it at the moment impossible to ask. but at least she knows how hard things are. Asking to be held is so utterly difficult. Being rejected when asked is awful. So I find it hard to ask just in case the answer is a no. Anyone else find this or is it just me?
And I also will see my P on Friday. Sigh.
to eat and let me talk and sleep and generally just have a safe space. She was so kind. she also put both her hands on me so that I felt she was there.She would hold me if I asked but I find it at the moment impossible to ask. but at least she knows how hard things are. Asking to be held is so utterly difficult. Being rejected when asked is awful. So I find it hard to ask just in case the answer is a no. Anyone else find this or is it just me?And I also will see my P on Friday. Sigh.
quote:Being rejected when asked is awful. So I find it hard to ask just in case the answer is a no. Anyone else find this or is it just me?
Yes, it is awful! I recently wrote to my T that I think the reason I will voice my concerns and needs in writing is that I don't have to face that rejection. Like, if I say I want/need something and T ignores it, I can assume his rejecting without actually having to experience it directly. It's kind of unfair for me to read into his silence that way (especially considering we could never touch on every single thing that comes up in my journal), but lately he has been pretty attuned to which things we really need to pluck out from them, so I guess that is something positive I can take out of it this rough week.
STRM - I think maybe in a year or two, I will be comfortable with him saying no to me. 
Until then, I will only hint, ask for things in writing or directly ask about things that don't matter enough for me to be hurt.
Until then, I will only hint, ask for things in writing or directly ask about things that don't matter enough for me to be hurt. quote:I can tell you this felt safe to me and I left feeling.. the most regulated I have in recent and distant memory.
That's so great, DF! I'm glad you had such a good experience with your session.
Yaku: That's okay!
DF: Yay!!! I'm so happy for you!
DF: Yay!!! I'm so happy for you!
Sadly ~ I think it is wonderful how much you are telling your T an dhow he is taking it all in and taking slow steady steps and thinking everything through. I think it was wonderful for you to risk asking about the blanket and talking about holding and touch. It sounds like he is really thinking through it. Even if he doesn't ever hold you, I can imgaine he will be able to help more just by knowing that is something that helps you. Like saying about the "animal" in pain... and he suggested it could be held... that was really sweet of him to say.
I hope it goes well with your T and the blanket. It could be that he wants to make sure there is a space where it could be safe, and not walk off with someone else thinking it is a communal blanket or something for any client to use or something... maybe... I dunno... but I certainly hope he finds a safe space for it, and if not, I hope you still bring it when you go in. I bring an extra jacket at times, and once I brought a blanket, just 'cause I felt like I needed it, and my T ws really cool about it. She told me about things clients bring in to help them feel better all the time. Lately, I have been into holding a travel mug of warm tea and letting the smell float up as we talk... my T has her own mugs I could use, but I like that now, whenever I use that travel mug of mine and make that tea, I think of the comforting moments with my T. Maybe with the blanket, it could be something you use in the office, and then can take home and it can remind you of the comfort found with him and provide a way to help hold on to it in between sessions? I dunno... that may be totally off the mark...
I do hope he can find a spot, and if not, still find some way to help you know from him it was a very good thing to ask about and very ok to need and want.
I hope he keeps growing and considering about holding and touching too. It is weird how much that is trained out of some Ts, and yet some Ts are all for it. I long for my T to hold me. I just am not nearly as courageous as you to ask ~ but this talk of it at least helps me feel a lot more ok about wanting to be touched and held by my T.
hope it goes well at your next appointment
~jane
I hope it goes well with your T and the blanket. It could be that he wants to make sure there is a space where it could be safe, and not walk off with someone else thinking it is a communal blanket or something for any client to use or something... maybe... I dunno... but I certainly hope he finds a safe space for it, and if not, I hope you still bring it when you go in. I bring an extra jacket at times, and once I brought a blanket, just 'cause I felt like I needed it, and my T ws really cool about it. She told me about things clients bring in to help them feel better all the time. Lately, I have been into holding a travel mug of warm tea and letting the smell float up as we talk... my T has her own mugs I could use, but I like that now, whenever I use that travel mug of mine and make that tea, I think of the comforting moments with my T. Maybe with the blanket, it could be something you use in the office, and then can take home and it can remind you of the comfort found with him and provide a way to help hold on to it in between sessions? I dunno... that may be totally off the mark...
I do hope he can find a spot, and if not, still find some way to help you know from him it was a very good thing to ask about and very ok to need and want.
I hope he keeps growing and considering about holding and touching too. It is weird how much that is trained out of some Ts, and yet some Ts are all for it. I long for my T to hold me. I just am not nearly as courageous as you to ask ~ but this talk of it at least helps me feel a lot more ok about wanting to be touched and held by my T.
hope it goes well at your next appointment
~jane
I have been away for three days, left straight after my session on Friday with my sweet P. He let me record the session and so friday evening I listened to it again before i went to sleep. THat was amazing - the first time I have ever heard a therapy session on recording, of me. I was stunned by how kind and slow and considered and respectful and careful he is when he is speaking to me. He was so gentle with me. He pauses and struggles sometimes to find the right word but he is prepared to struggle and work at finding the right word and I am also stunned by how his voice is so gentle and soft and caring. So much caring! I think I am often reeling from what I have just said to him and the feelings that that will create in me, and so I miss a lot of what he says next because of working so hard on just coping with the flood of feelings and emotions welling up from my side. So recording it means I get to hear what he says - and I have now listened to it three times and I am learning so much.
I am stunned how forceful and angry I can sound when I am feeling so frightened. I was stunned how soft and quietly I speak most of the time. I was totally taken aback with how pain filled my voice is. I was deeply moved by my struggle over and over to be understood, the torment of not feeling able to be understood, the many attempts to convey what I feel and how I felt. The frustration as I do that. It was a revelation to me.
I just feel that I have been hearing and remembering about 40% of each session - even when I meticulously write it up after wards. And I have been missing a lot of the interaction between us - how I sigh and how he sighs - how we both go silent and the clock ticks.
The holding issue did not come up but he got to meet my bear - my own bear - and I also took blanket and actually got it out as it was freezing in there and he said he would of course keep it, and liked the way I had squashed it into a small air tight zip lock travel plastic holder vacuum pack thing.
I feel very grateful to him for suggesting that I can record a session. I now hope I can record EACH session.
HE also is going to sort out a way I can phone him when I am in India, (I go in three weeks for three weeks) so that I do not feel I have lost contact.
Do tell me if you have recorded sessions and also if you have found it as helpful and revealing as I have listening to this one session.
At the end he did say that he found he was being challenged personally by our work together and that he felt he was having to grow and change to meet me where I need to be met. I smiled and reminded that I had indeed warned him that would happen if he worked with me and he laughed and agreed that I had indeed warned him.
I am stunned how forceful and angry I can sound when I am feeling so frightened. I was stunned how soft and quietly I speak most of the time. I was totally taken aback with how pain filled my voice is. I was deeply moved by my struggle over and over to be understood, the torment of not feeling able to be understood, the many attempts to convey what I feel and how I felt. The frustration as I do that. It was a revelation to me.
I just feel that I have been hearing and remembering about 40% of each session - even when I meticulously write it up after wards. And I have been missing a lot of the interaction between us - how I sigh and how he sighs - how we both go silent and the clock ticks.
The holding issue did not come up but he got to meet my bear - my own bear - and I also took blanket and actually got it out as it was freezing in there and he said he would of course keep it, and liked the way I had squashed it into a small air tight zip lock travel plastic holder vacuum pack thing.
I feel very grateful to him for suggesting that I can record a session. I now hope I can record EACH session.
HE also is going to sort out a way I can phone him when I am in India, (I go in three weeks for three weeks) so that I do not feel I have lost contact.
Do tell me if you have recorded sessions and also if you have found it as helpful and revealing as I have listening to this one session.
At the end he did say that he found he was being challenged personally by our work together and that he felt he was having to grow and change to meet me where I need to be met. I smiled and reminded that I had indeed warned him that would happen if he worked with me and he laughed and agreed that I had indeed warned him.
Sadly,
I enjoyed reading your post. It is clear that recording and listening to your session was helpful for you.
I haven't not recorded a session and I don't think I would want to. I guess I am afraid of how I might cringe at the sound of my voice, how embarrassed I might be when I sound angry, how vulnerable I might feel when I sound weak or afraid. I am afraid that I will sound stupid, ignorant, etc. I just don't think I could handle hearing myself talk.
With that being said, I would so much love to have recordings of the things my two Ts sat to me. I wonder if I might hear it differently the second or third or fourth time I listen. I wonder if I will catch things I missed the first time around, etc.
anyway, that you for sharing your experience with recording your session. I found it fascinating and I will be curious to hear more a about it if you continue to record your sessions.
I enjoyed reading your post. It is clear that recording and listening to your session was helpful for you.
I haven't not recorded a session and I don't think I would want to. I guess I am afraid of how I might cringe at the sound of my voice, how embarrassed I might be when I sound angry, how vulnerable I might feel when I sound weak or afraid. I am afraid that I will sound stupid, ignorant, etc. I just don't think I could handle hearing myself talk.
With that being said, I would so much love to have recordings of the things my two Ts sat to me. I wonder if I might hear it differently the second or third or fourth time I listen. I wonder if I will catch things I missed the first time around, etc.
anyway, that you for sharing your experience with recording your session. I found it fascinating and I will be curious to hear more a about it if you continue to record your sessions.
The first time I listened, I found hearing me AWFUL! Infact I found it hard to go to sleep as I was amazed/shocked/ moved by my own voice and speech. It took many hours of processing that to get over that initial shock!
I do sometimes cringe at what I say but I also learn a lot from listening to me, as I am aware that I did not say something clearly where as in the session I thought I did. At one point he said, " I cannot phone you in India" and I said " you can't" ( I was agreeing as there is no way he could phone me back, just impossible. I will have to phone him.) but he was trying to explain how he is not allowed to make out of the country calls by the organisation he works for and I am trying to tell him he does not have to worry about that, as he cannot physically call me in india even if he is allowed to, but that
"you can't" from me, actually sounds like a shocked question - rather than a statement. So he goes off explaining again why HE can't.
Also I was a little embarrassed by how I get caught up in emotion and just cannot talk very clearly and it IS quite hard to follow what I am saying. I am going to have to work on that.
My initial reaction, rather than considered responce, to my own voice and way of speaking, was that I felt I sounded false. That threw me. Why do I think I sound false? Eventually I came to see it is because in order to talk to my P I have to distance myself from the part of me that is feeling so hurt and upset by all these things and TELL him what happened etc, so it is like I have had to emotionally back off in order to communicate and that sounds a wee bit false but of course I am being authentic just holding myself at arms length as I speak.
Interesting huh.
I do sometimes cringe at what I say but I also learn a lot from listening to me, as I am aware that I did not say something clearly where as in the session I thought I did. At one point he said, " I cannot phone you in India" and I said " you can't" ( I was agreeing as there is no way he could phone me back, just impossible. I will have to phone him.) but he was trying to explain how he is not allowed to make out of the country calls by the organisation he works for and I am trying to tell him he does not have to worry about that, as he cannot physically call me in india even if he is allowed to, but that
"you can't" from me, actually sounds like a shocked question - rather than a statement. So he goes off explaining again why HE can't.
Also I was a little embarrassed by how I get caught up in emotion and just cannot talk very clearly and it IS quite hard to follow what I am saying. I am going to have to work on that.
My initial reaction, rather than considered responce, to my own voice and way of speaking, was that I felt I sounded false. That threw me. Why do I think I sound false? Eventually I came to see it is because in order to talk to my P I have to distance myself from the part of me that is feeling so hurt and upset by all these things and TELL him what happened etc, so it is like I have had to emotionally back off in order to communicate and that sounds a wee bit false but of course I am being authentic just holding myself at arms length as I speak.
Interesting huh.
Sadly, I am glad to hear your overall positive learning experience from recording your session. I have done that only once. Perhaps I ought to do it again, because I remember some of the same discoveries that you mentioned: I had not noticed until listening to the recording how gentle my T's voice came across, and how soothing it was, and how she paused and struggled to say the right thing that would help me. I also noticed that a couple of times when I became emotional that my own voice sounded harsher and louder than I remembered being, and other times I was too mumbly. Like LG, I hate listening to my voice and it definitely makes me cringe. I think I sound nasally-whiny with not enough variation in pitch -- too monotone. But it was worth it to have to listen to my own voice in order to learn what I did. The recording helped me remember much more that was said than I would have otherwise. But it was my T's voice - just listening to her without the dissociation that can happen when I'm actually with her in the moment -- that helped me feel more secure. I regret that I cannot experience her voice in that way during the actual session.
Sadly,
I've been recording all my sessions with my T for over 2 years (and I keep them all on my computer). He agreed to it and I have found it very helpful. It didn't take too long for me to get used to the sound of my own voice and stop reacting to it.
It has been invaluable for many of the reasons you mention. I discovered how long the silences lasted in my session and until then I didn't realize how often and for how long I go away into my own thoughts (my version of dissociation). When I'm really emotional or activated I find that I don't hear everything T has said and listening later helps me get more out of the session.
Last week was like that. I was so angry about the missed contact out of session and his seeming to ignore it that I really was only listening to the screaming in my head that was saying he is tired of you, he is blowing you off, get away. I completely missed some of the things he did say like "I don't feel like I have to get away from you or the stories that you have been telling me, I don't feel like they aren't true or aren't important" or "I'm sorry that it was so hurtful for you". I think I've gotten off topic and into my story.
Sorry,
Di
I've been recording all my sessions with my T for over 2 years (and I keep them all on my computer). He agreed to it and I have found it very helpful. It didn't take too long for me to get used to the sound of my own voice and stop reacting to it.
It has been invaluable for many of the reasons you mention. I discovered how long the silences lasted in my session and until then I didn't realize how often and for how long I go away into my own thoughts (my version of dissociation). When I'm really emotional or activated I find that I don't hear everything T has said and listening later helps me get more out of the session.
Last week was like that. I was so angry about the missed contact out of session and his seeming to ignore it that I really was only listening to the screaming in my head that was saying he is tired of you, he is blowing you off, get away. I completely missed some of the things he did say like "I don't feel like I have to get away from you or the stories that you have been telling me, I don't feel like they aren't true or aren't important" or "I'm sorry that it was so hurtful for you". I think I've gotten off topic and into my story.
Sorry,
Di
thanks both Di and MH - we seem to find that this recording of sessions has definite uses. I hope he lets me continue, i think he will once I tell him how useful it is to me. He is ringing me tomorrow which is so sweet and kind of him. I am being unlayered by his kindness.
quote:it is healing to re-hear a conversation where you are being so vulnerable and this important person is responding to that and caring for you in that moment.
quote:My Ts voice too is often gentle and loaded with compassion, patience...but I forget that so quickly..
quote:they allow me to dissect the way I do therapy...where I go wrong...what recurring questions arise that I can never answer...what I need to think about...where I can improve in my communication.
Monte - I do think these are extremely valuable points about why recording a session can be so helpful. thank you for this. I agree.
I got cuddled and held tonight by my EMDR T who is very lovely. It was just so so soothing.
thank goodness I asked. Thanks STRM for suggesting it.
and she said I could record our sessions too.
thank goodness I asked. Thanks STRM for suggesting it.
and she said I could record our sessions too.
We recorded the session today. I am feeling much more able to talk to him, now that I have heard via the recording of last week how hurting I am and how caring he is.
I dared to ask his age, he is 52. I am glad he is older than me - it would have miffed me if he was younger, - but he is about eight years older than I thought he was.
I told him so much today.
I also gave him the book "Touch in psychotherapy"
He is so good to me.
I dared to ask his age, he is 52. I am glad he is older than me - it would have miffed me if he was younger, - but he is about eight years older than I thought he was.
I told him so much today.
I also gave him the book "Touch in psychotherapy"
He is so good to me.
how wonderful Sadly!!! I'm so glad your EMDR T was able to hold you. I'm glad that your P is caring so much as well, and you were able to hear it from the recording, especially with all you have been through and all your courage to share with him. I'm glad you are finding it easier to talk. It makes my heart smile to know you are finding such comfort in the midst of sorting through the pain.
~ jane
~ jane
I wish I had a tap on my cell phone so I could record my phone session with T today! Glad you had such a good one.
A long session today with sweetP. After last week, which was huge, it was hard to know where and how to go forward.
We did go over a lot of my fears and asks around phoning him. He was reassuring and kind - as per usual. He is just solidly reassuring and he is also careful not to frighten me or make me tremble. I can feel how careful he is .
We then talked some more about the FalseFinder and how it was - I was trying again to persuade him how I felt I created the vortex by talking about my newly emerging sexual feelings, and this vortex of energy was what FF fell into and so that is how it was my fault. He again said that it is not my fault.
I even talked about how my sexuality was beginning to emerge whilst I was working with FF and then how it went underground again. And how since August I have been talking about the boy, and what he did, (awful abuse) and how my sexual feelings have re emerged and my husband has been sweetly and kindly helping me re emerge - I think sexually I am about 16 - but a very naive and innocent 16 yr old.
What I found so helpful about today, is that half way through, when I was finding it hard to reveal things, I asked him to move, so that he could sit on my right, not my left. He was perfectly happy to do that and simply moved his chair. He asked why. I just said I felt better. Then I tried to work out why it felt so much better when he moved, and I found that my left side (which is scarred and burnt) hurts a lot when I am there, and so I feel like I need him to stay away from all that hurting as it feels very sensitive. But on my right side, he can sit nearer and I can feel him nearer and I feel able to disclose more difficult things. Which is what happened.
He admitted that he sometimes does find that HE finds some topics more interesting than others, like the whole topic about abuse by a therapist is something he wanted to talk about but I pointed out that he did not talk about the abuse by the boy.
The change I feel from today, is that I feel much more able to talk to him freely. I began to talk about sex - which is a topic that had to be talked about at some point, considering the abuse we are addressing. I felt okay talking to him about sex though I admit I feel like a very shy teenager who gets embarrassed very easily and is very naive indeed.
I think it is an indication how at ease I feel with him that I asked him how old he is. "Can I ask you how old you are?" "Of course." He pondered and eventually worked out that he is 52, 53 next birthday. I was relieved that he is older than me, it was going to feel a bit odd if he was younger since I see him as such a father figure. You know you are getting old when your therapists are younger than you!
He asked why I cry silently. I said I always have. Then I remembered that I have photos of me crying and being very unhappy and I remember my father taking them and laughing at me. My mother and sister joined in mocking me and they thought it would stop me crying but actually I was six years old and very unhappy indeed and they just thought it was funny. Each time I tried to turn my head away, he just moved the camera so that he could take a picture from that side. There was no where to hide my face.
We did go over a lot of my fears and asks around phoning him. He was reassuring and kind - as per usual. He is just solidly reassuring and he is also careful not to frighten me or make me tremble. I can feel how careful he is .
We then talked some more about the FalseFinder and how it was - I was trying again to persuade him how I felt I created the vortex by talking about my newly emerging sexual feelings, and this vortex of energy was what FF fell into and so that is how it was my fault. He again said that it is not my fault.
I even talked about how my sexuality was beginning to emerge whilst I was working with FF and then how it went underground again. And how since August I have been talking about the boy, and what he did, (awful abuse) and how my sexual feelings have re emerged and my husband has been sweetly and kindly helping me re emerge - I think sexually I am about 16 - but a very naive and innocent 16 yr old.
What I found so helpful about today, is that half way through, when I was finding it hard to reveal things, I asked him to move, so that he could sit on my right, not my left. He was perfectly happy to do that and simply moved his chair. He asked why. I just said I felt better. Then I tried to work out why it felt so much better when he moved, and I found that my left side (which is scarred and burnt) hurts a lot when I am there, and so I feel like I need him to stay away from all that hurting as it feels very sensitive. But on my right side, he can sit nearer and I can feel him nearer and I feel able to disclose more difficult things. Which is what happened.
He admitted that he sometimes does find that HE finds some topics more interesting than others, like the whole topic about abuse by a therapist is something he wanted to talk about but I pointed out that he did not talk about the abuse by the boy.
The change I feel from today, is that I feel much more able to talk to him freely. I began to talk about sex - which is a topic that had to be talked about at some point, considering the abuse we are addressing. I felt okay talking to him about sex though I admit I feel like a very shy teenager who gets embarrassed very easily and is very naive indeed.
I think it is an indication how at ease I feel with him that I asked him how old he is. "Can I ask you how old you are?" "Of course." He pondered and eventually worked out that he is 52, 53 next birthday. I was relieved that he is older than me, it was going to feel a bit odd if he was younger since I see him as such a father figure. You know you are getting old when your therapists are younger than you!
He asked why I cry silently. I said I always have. Then I remembered that I have photos of me crying and being very unhappy and I remember my father taking them and laughing at me. My mother and sister joined in mocking me and they thought it would stop me crying but actually I was six years old and very unhappy indeed and they just thought it was funny. Each time I tried to turn my head away, he just moved the camera so that he could take a picture from that side. There was no where to hide my face.
My EMDR T, whom I call Maffa, is ringing sweetP, my P tomorrow to talk about the issue of holding or not holding me in therapy. she started holding me last week and I feel so much better for it, so I am rather hoping she might help him feel more able to hold me when I am feeling so little. I would so like a cuddle, when I hurt and feel about 1 yrs old. I just hope she will be able to talk about it in a way that helps him to feel more able to. But I also feel okay if he can't because I really trust him, and I feel he is so solid and steady for me. I think I am fortunate. After ending with that ex C, I truly landed on my feet.
I'm glad to hear you have so much support around holding in therapy. Thanks for keeping us updated. I hope we get to hear that sweetP will hold you, but glad that you are able to trust him and feel safe either way. I hope I will be bold enough to ask T for what I feel I need some day, like you are doing.
So tonight I talked to sweet P by phone about the holding issue, I admitted that there is a very little part of me that just desperately and hopelessly and hugely wants to be cuddled and that I am frightened of him seeing that. He was very understanding as usual, and not the least bit thrown - he just said that maybe we need to allow that bit out, (he did not say he would cuddle me) and allow it some space and see how we go.
So that looks like Friday's session then....
I just dread hearing him say no, which is the likely outcome.
I wish this bit was over with ...
So that looks like Friday's session then....
I just dread hearing him say no, which is the likely outcome.
I wish this bit was over with ...
So here we are at Friday and it is highly likely that today I will find out if i have a p who will hold me or a P who will not.
I wish I wish I wish I knew.
I wish I wish I wish I knew.
11.30am
near tears.
got an email full of the praises of the Trickter's accomplice and also outlining exactly how they have wrapped up the teaching where I used to work so that I cannot work there. Rang the supposed boss and he was cool and distant and he is supposed to be a close friend.
Cried.
Rang FirstFinder: got answer machine; rang sweetP's office and told them I had a doctor's appointment and would not be coming today; rang friend Serai: engaged tone; husband rang but he wanted to go on about a work thing next week, rang kindMaffa and she got an earful from me about how bad I am feeling. How I am feeling disrespected and marginalized and that at this moment I believe them, that I am NOT good enough and how awful I feel inside and how I don't trust anyone not to mock me or jeer at me in this state and how vulnerable I feel and how I have rung and cancelled seeing sweetP as I just don't want to lay myself wide open to being told I am not touchable, by him.
Feel like I am two years old and got myself in a tight corner and crying and frightened.
near tears.
got an email full of the praises of the Trickter's accomplice and also outlining exactly how they have wrapped up the teaching where I used to work so that I cannot work there. Rang the supposed boss and he was cool and distant and he is supposed to be a close friend.
Cried.
Rang FirstFinder: got answer machine; rang sweetP's office and told them I had a doctor's appointment and would not be coming today; rang friend Serai: engaged tone; husband rang but he wanted to go on about a work thing next week, rang kindMaffa and she got an earful from me about how bad I am feeling. How I am feeling disrespected and marginalized and that at this moment I believe them, that I am NOT good enough and how awful I feel inside and how I don't trust anyone not to mock me or jeer at me in this state and how vulnerable I feel and how I have rung and cancelled seeing sweetP as I just don't want to lay myself wide open to being told I am not touchable, by him.
Feel like I am two years old and got myself in a tight corner and crying and frightened.
Sadly, I'm sorry you are suffering. I'm not sure I understand what you are writing about here and what exactly happened as I dont' know or cannot remember who Trickster is. Did you lose your job?
I think you should have kept the appt with SweetP because you need to talk to him and you could have just told him to put aside the "holding" conversation so you could address how you are feeling today after getting bad news. I think you need him today.
I hope you can do something nice for yourself that will help you feel better and more grounded until you can find some healing from one of your Ts/Ps.
Keep us posted.
TN
I think you should have kept the appt with SweetP because you need to talk to him and you could have just told him to put aside the "holding" conversation so you could address how you are feeling today after getting bad news. I think you need him today.
I hope you can do something nice for yourself that will help you feel better and more grounded until you can find some healing from one of your Ts/Ps.
Keep us posted.
TN