(((Liese)))

I have wondered about the conjuring of emotions part. I feel like I established a fairly trusting relationship with my T relatively quickly, and even though I've only been going a year and a half, she knows all my traumas, I think. When I've talked about them, though, I've been sometimes a bit keyed up, anxious, or agitated but not what I would think of as emotional. I don't cry. Or at least, I haven't cried yet. I still feel like there must be some grief somewhere that I haven't hit yet. In a way I think I would like to just have a good ol' cry in T's office over everything, but I don't seem to be able to yet. I wonder sometimes if I have really "processed" things at all. I guess I do have the feeling that processing equals factual information plus emoting, and think sometimes that if only I could deliver both at the same time I'd have really made some progress. I don't know. T tells me that I don't have to cry and not everyone does. But she also says she thinks there is some untapped grief there and that I have Issues with Emotional Intimacy and Vulnerability.

Wish I could be more helpful or insightful. Guess all I can do is say I relate. I think it is awesome that you are ready to venture into Phase 2 with your T. Go you (and him too, I think he is a good T in spite of my tendency to get annoyed on your behalf whenever you are annoyed with him, lol)!

Hi Liese,
I don't know if what I'm going to say will help at all, but I hope you will feel a little less alone...

I don't really understand the concept of trauma processing - is it the same as working through and letting go of unexpressed feelings? I can relate to what you've said about things that have happened that you remember but don't have a sense of what you felt at the time. If I were looking on or looking back at the event, I imagine I'd be entitled to feel all sorts of strong emotions, but I don't have any real connection to those feelings.

What I've found, though, is that things happen in the here and now that trigger feelings that I rationally know are completely out of proportion with now but take me back to past events. By being able to express and feel allowed to have those feelings now and move through them, I feel like I'm making some space inside... That those locked down feelings from the past are getting the opportunity to be completed (my T is gestalt trained and talks about unfinished gestalts or ways of being that are like interrupted circuits that distort experiencing stuff - or something like that!).

It is a trust thing for me. I'd never have let her see my distress at a changed hairstyle or something if I didn't trust her.

I'm sorry I can't offer more help... I'm glad you are feeling safe with your T.

Liese, I was watching this video recently and found it really interesting, and your topic made me think of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv0yaXxJvtY

Of course they are coming at the issue of trauma from a very particular theoretical perspective, but I liked how they discussed dissociation and the difference between stress and trauma. It's possible that your reaction to a past "traumatic" event would just be severe stress, but I think by definition if it is trauma, then it means some of the feelings are blocked out. So "not feeling anything" when you remember an event could mean that you've got some dissociation about it, which you kind of work through until you can get into the feelings underneath.

On the other hand, I don't know that remembering and emoting about a trauma is always necessary to healing. I guess it depends on how much the trauma is still affecting you and how, and whether there are other ways to deal with it?? Not sure. But happy for you that you feel you are able to move forward and interested to hear how it goes.

i am still in phase 1 - and not getting far, in fact after a 14 months, I think we have gone backwards.

But, I have thought about those times when we are there and I don't think I can share stuff with my T. Despite how close we are.

I guess this is a reflection of where I am at with therapy - if I was ready I think I would know it.

SD

Yay for trust! That's a huge deal. I don't have much to add to what was said above, except that I could relate to what Draggers said. And especially about having the mind and body release it as ready. There are still really horrible, significant events I can recount in complete detachment. Just not ready to go there. I myself have barely shed any tears (though I've come around after someone littler has a bit, except we have a fear of being seen/heard crying from a few very small ones). I would bet there are times you are feeling something in relation to the present, but the feelings themselves (or at least the intensity of them) is from the past. Transference stuff with T would be a good example. I actually find that my hugest trigger is when I numbly share trauma stuff and then my sweet, compassionate T shows his caring, says sorry about it, acts like it means something. I get very upset and dismissive and anxious when he does that and I think that is the emotions from the trauma being triggered by the validation no one (including me) has ever given them, but I just still do not feel safe, so myself and other parts push them away, dissociate them again if they actually manage to come up. Also, yeah, there are some things I just can't seem to find any emotion about from anyone. Maybe I haven't found where it's contained yet or maybe it's something that for some reason wasn't as traumatic as one would think or OFTEN the experience was so confusing, no one could make head nor tails of it to know how to feel, so the biggest emotion, for example, from one major abandonment was just bewilderment...then because confusion is triggering of needing outside help when none is there, complete detachment from that relationship.

Anyway, hope some of that helped or made sense. I've been in such a fog this week at times.

Hi everyone.

I am typing from my phone from the back of an SUV so I can't reply individually right now. But just wanted to Say that you all gave me a lot to think about. I suppose why talk about it if it doesn't bother me, right? Even if it seems like it should have been traumatic. And like some of you have said, these things have probably affected me in nonverbal ways and get triggered in everyday life and working through that stuff will help the most. I am not going to put so much pressure on myself to do phase 2! It appeals to me because of my control issues: it would help me to feel more control over therapy. Even though I do have control over it, it would ease some of the anxiety

Honestly now the only reason I can see for discussing it is to make sense of some of the things I've done that were destructive to myself and to restore if possible self respect and self esteem.

Bless you all for responding and I'm sending you all big hugs though SD, I am going to squeeze you a little harder. I know things have been hard for you.

Oh and ps I can't believe I spelled trauma wrong in the title of this thread. I tried to fix it but for some reason the edit button isn't appearing at the.bottom of my first post.

Liese,

I'm sorry that I haven't been writing very much on the forum lately. I didn't even notice that you spelled trauma wrong the first few times I read your post. I'm glad you feel like you can trust your T enough to process trauma but I can't give advice because I don't understand trauma processing. I express a lot of emotion but I don't find it helpful. I seem to get stuck in the emotion and eventually or immediately I just feel helpless hopeless. I mention this because I don't think it is just about getting in touch with the emotions.

((((COGS))))
So nice to see you. I just read an interesting article by a psychologist in Massachusetts who suggests that abreative work in therapy is addicting because our bodies release enodorphins in response to pain. Thought that was an interesting idea and what you said made me think of it. Wish you felt better. And even if you don't feel it, you've made movement emotionally in the right direction. You will get there .

Hi Liese,

Sorry, this might be long because I'm sharing some stuff from recently too (hope that's okay). Both of my Ts are rather eclectic... so I'm not sure if this will help

I know in my SE therapy the trauma is processed in the body... sometimes you know what it's about or things come up and sometimes you don't. It shifts things and heals my activation... I have no clue if that makes sense. Like sometimes if I get an urge to push something away my T will help me with that and that's sort of empowering myself thereby healing some traumas or emotions of being non-empowered. Describing what it feels to feel about a situation (or just to feel in the moment) and observing it shift with another person is weirdly... good processing. I feel so much relief and release after sessions on a deeper, slower, level.

I don't think you need to conjure up emotions that aren't there so much as allow the ones that are there (if any - my T always says... numb is a feeling, too). This week I did what I think was direct trauma processing with T1 - we're in very intense nearly daily therapy right now. We were going to work on anger about a trauma that left me feeling trapped. We worked on one particular trauma memory but it was cross-healing in many areas I feel trapped and angry. There were several here-and-now situations that I was able to relate to this old trauma (being followed by a man, contact policies having to change temporarily with T2, medical issues, work issues, my feelings and treatment of myself, change in general). We were going to try to pull the plug on the anger and get it out. Our thought was to have me punch the crap out of something and it ended up that even being near/touching the thing to beat the crap out of got my emotions going.

So that is how I think it works best for me and what my Ts and I have done in the past... resolve past trauma by relating current events (or current triggers from the past) to feelings, beliefs, sensations, expectations and relational issues in the NOW. The biggest block to my processing has been self compassion. As i've learned self compassion I can look back on myself and experiences, or appreciate them now in a way where I can truly feel. As I've worked on my self-judgement and combine this with the compassion I get to a point where I'm feeling how I feel and letting it be how I feel regardless if it is right or wrong for the situation. My T leverages this by getting me to relate to myself by talking about how I relate to other people, or to think about people in the same situations, etc. Without this, I can't do the "intense" work. I think you're always processing in a way just going to therapy. I processed... and still do relational repair every time I walk in to my T's office.

Anyway... sorry I'm rambling... I think what we're doing right now is trying to get IN to the trauma earlier in session (because I usually can't until way late in session so my T can't push us in to exploring it because we have no time). How my T facilitates this is by letting me go in to it (and only if I want to) and reflecting specific things (I don't know how she picks them) that just really get me there. It's almost (and this sounds more weird than it is) like she is a cheering section for my emotions. So as I'm describing something she will comment on it...lead me to talking about and exploring my feelings. Then it just somehow... gets processed. I go there and explore it... sort of 'rescue' the part of me that is stuck there with those messages, that intense feeling that has been left on the wayside... the things I learned so deeply about the world and myself. Self-validate them, recognize and honor them... hurt for weeks and be an emotional wreck, etc... LOL that's pretty much what happens with them. My T calls it coughing up hairballs.

So that is how my trauma processing works and I think we're really at that point but... we had to build the stuff I mentioned already plus deep trust and a mutual belief I can take care of myself (whether that is reaching out, or something else, etc) if we go there. My T also titrates (well, I told her yesterday we're damn good at it hehe) so we may go off on a tangent, laugh about something, then refocus. It can help shift perspective and sometimes it can just help calm me for the next round of thoughts/feelings. My T said it's like going through the same thing and receiving the love and comfort I should have then (for this particular trauma anyway) on some level. Some Ts aren't as... correct experience oriented (not the right words I'm looking for) than others. Both my Ts like to take situations and differentiate this one... how is talking to this about her or imaging the police coming, or her rescuing me, or the police or anybody helping and how does that make me feel and how would that be different and what would another outcome mean?

That's one thing that's big... after going in to it and while in it we give it meaning (honor)...

I really REALLY had the belief that trauma processing had to be this crazy emotional release where things just explode in to emotion and it's cathartic... and I think sometimes that happens. It's my expectation, what limits me, and also my greatest fear. T and I learned the hitting something approach really wasn't me (or at least not me right now) so I know she's going to be leveraging more my relationships with younger people in my life and my sibling to lead me to self-compassion/emotion and open the flood gates that way. That might help for you - to imagine your own children in situations.

It's so hard to describe... I'm so glad you are at a point of feeling real trust with your T. Maybe you can talk to him about how he processes? This was not effective with my Ts...ugh... I asked them what it looks like and their answer was........ it looks like what it looks like and whatever it is is okay. So then I start asking about a PLAN, a CHECKLIST of things that I MUST accomplish... and... there isn't one, not a straightforward one with rules I must adhere to. BUT maybe if you ask your T he can elaborate on what he's going to do. Sometimes I think my Ts and I just make it up as we go. They are so artful in the way they respond and see areas to facilitate. It's seamless but spontaneous... controlled but completely unknown. Attached to getting somewhere (yet nowhere specific - maybe even the same place we started), yet not attached at all to how we get there.

I don't know if this was helpful at all I feel like I might have just made it more confusing because I don't know I really consider what I'm doing to be processing... active processing but maybe it isn't and at the same time... it has been all along even when I thought it hasn't been (grr). So... all this rambling (I'm sorry) aside I don't think you have to conjure up emotions but look at the situation from many angles and see what (if anything) it brings up. You can also do processing at home! Even a walk is processing... for me... art is processing. Sometimes my Ts will suggest if I can't really FEEL something to paint what that might look like... what IS the feeling. Exercise also helps me access my emotions... oh goodness I cry all the time right now as stuff is shed from my body. Anyway those things make it easier to FIND the emotions when I go exploring.

(((Liese))) Thinking of you.. hoping I didn't drown you in my novella here!!

Uggggghhhhh, I was in the backseat of a car driving around Maine yesterday all day. Got a few moments to myself this morning so I want to thank everyone for replying and respond before I have to get in the back of that car again.

(((HELD)))

quote:

In a way I think I would like to just have a good ol' cry in T's office over everything, but I don't seem to be able to yet.I wonder sometimes if I have really "processed" things at all. I guess I do have the feeling that processing equals factual information plus emoting, and think sometimes that if only I could deliver both at the same time I'd have really made some progress.

I couldn't cry with my T for a really long time. Finally did cry with him over feeling like he was ignoring my pain . Oh, that really felt good. He WAS ignoring my pain but you know who (FOO) really ignored my pain . So, it was sort of doubly healing. He addresses my pain now on a constant basis - which, honestly, is starting to feel a little ridiculous.

I love that you get annoyed with him on my behalf. I'm finally getting the support I've always wanted.

(((DRAGGERS)))

Nice to hear from someone who if farther along in the process than I am and how things work for you. That's an interesting thought, to be able to sort through things intellectually first. I was so focused on the feelings part of things that I didn't think there was any benefit to that but can see now that there is. As if you are finally allowing the thoughts and words into the room and then hopefully the emotions will follow along?



(((IRIS)))

Nice to talk to you. Just knowing I'm not alone and the big hug at the end was very helpful. I am so glad I am not the only one who has experienced this:

quote:

I can relate to what you've said about things that have happened that you remember but don't have a sense of what you felt at the time. If I were looking on or looking back at the event, I imagine I'd be entitled to feel all sorts of strong emotions, but I don't have any real connection to those feelings.

Yes, that's it. I do feel like I should be entitled to feel all sorts of strong emotions. I have to say that I felt like that about my big trauma. I knew that I really struggled for a year but couldn't really access any feelings. But then I went through something with my T that triggered it all. I now can feel that year and tell you vehemently how awful that year was. I guess it's just going to take time for everything else to sort itself out and fall into place.


(((BLT)))

I feel like a part of my brain MUST be missing since I don't FEEL what I think I should feel about certain events in my life. Like, where the heck was I? I don't remember anything beyond being outside my brother's door while he was axing. I don't remember my parents coming home so it's quite possible that I dissociated at that point. I remember asking my Dad the next day why he did it and my Dad told me that it was all planned, that they had planned on taking down his sheetrock and replacing it. I didn't respond but remember thinking, oh, I guess he thinks I'm stupid.

I haven't been able to watch the video yet since I'm on the road with H and the kids but will when I get home. Thanks for posting it.

(((SD)))

quote:

i am still in phase 1 - and not getting far, in fact after a 14 months, I think we have gone backwards.

All this work is like a spiral. You work up the spiral and then sometimes something gets triggered and you work down the spiral a little. You aren't really going backwards. Something has been triggered for you and when you work through it, you'll start going up that spiral again.

(((ANON)))

quote:

I actually find that my hugest trigger is when I numbly share trauma stuff and then my sweet, compassionate T shows his caring, says sorry about it, acts like it means something. I get very upset and dismissive and anxious when he does that and I think that is the emotions from the trauma being triggered by the validation no one (including me) has ever given them,

I was reading the first sentence and shaking my head, yes, that's it until I got to the second sentence are realized you were going somewhere else with it. I do feel like that often, that T is just "pretending" to show his caring in response to something I share. After all, how could he really do that all day, day in and day out, and still have anything left of himself after that. But then there are other times when I really do feel his compassion and that brings about warm feelings but also triggers lots of sadness because it FEELS so nice and is in such contrast to what I experienced as a kid. It's as if his kindness is a kind of neon sign flashing before me, reminding me of all I didn't get as a kid. And then it hurts.

(((COGS)))

Wish there was something I could say to help you feel better. I really meant what I said about seeing you progress even if you don't always see it or feel it. The veil will lift, Cogs. And then you will be able to smile.


(((CAT)))

Thanks for sharing how it all works for you. It was very interesting to read. I left yours for last because you wrote so much that I want respond to but then my H came and sat right next to me on the bed and was peaking over. I felt SO invaded. In any event, he's still next to me and isn't budging to I'm making the reply short just so I finally get something posted. But I will be back to reply when I have some PRIVACY. Grrrrrr. Really pisses me off.

(((MONTE)))

I very much relate to nearly everything you wrote, the difficult in feeling but then sometimes being able to do it at home, alone. The frustration in not being able to share it real time with T. Though, so glad to hear that you were starting to see some success in this area until it got interrupted.

quote:

I think to start it is about being very comfortable with your T and being assured in an intellectual way to begin with that he understands, cares and will respond appropriately to your vulnerability. From there it is toe in the water stuff...at least it has been for me.

I do think I struggle in this area still a little bit. Sometimes I imagine him just rolling his eyes at my thoughts and ideas and just sitting back watching me, watching what I bring in to him. Hmmmm, that could be a good thing to talk to him about. I hesitate to ask him directly, as CAT suggested, how he does processing for several reasons but a big one is just talking about "IT" is still very threatening and scary.

to everyone.