I just wonder, if people go to therapy and stay long enough to develop transference/feelings for the therapist... could it be that they just needed to stay longer and longer and keep coming.... I mean they could have left any time before getting attached - would they get their help without the need to get attached?
But anyway... if someone keeps coming and coming (no strong feelings yet) and eventually some feelings get stirred up, is this perhaps part of the chase they do in real life... so this time it is going to be different and safe...
Yeah, I wonder...
I think if someone was before in therapy knows and understands what to expect, what the transference is.
If someone is new and was told about the transference beforehand they probably would not understand, and it doesn't always have to be love or attraction. I guess the therapist can't really tell what feelings will come up.

I think before I started therapy I came across the statment that the therapist becomes the most important person (or at least very important). It meant nothing to me.
I thik I also read somewhere about transferring feelings for important other onto the therapist. I didn't pay much attention to it and still it meant nothing to me.
I also suspected that I may become attached (fall in love in my case) to the therapist and was trying to avoid it, because apparently I didn't understand anything of the above.
All I knew was that you are supposed to trust your therapist. I still didn't understand a thing.

I think if the therapist told the client that there may be involved feelings such and such, that would actually put pressure on the client to feel what they are supposed to feel and what the therapist may be expecting.
Hm... it is quite possible that if the therapist tried to explain what kind of feelings may the connection bring out, it would probably ruin the therapy from the start. That just me thinking aloud here.

Yes, I believe that a well trained therapist would be aware of transference in clients.

In response to what you said about a T telling his clients about transference in the beginning- I don’t personally think that would be helpful. Discovering things for yourself is such a critically important part of therapy, and my T is always reminding me of this. It means a lot more to experience something for yourself, and then come to your own conclusion about it, than to just have someone tell you and give you all the answers. Transference (whatever kind it may be) is part of the process. I think it’s important to talk about any feelings towards the T as they happen, because talking about it can further the relationship and create a stronger bond between T & C. For me, being able to talk about the feeling that I am having towards him, and hearing his responses, have made out relationship stronger, and I don’t think it would have had the same effect as if he had just told me about transference from the start.
Mac

Oh my, I really wish more Ts would talk about potential transferences AND all their unique boundaries straightaway. It is harder and more frustrating on us trying to figure out what boundaries are, and whether we should tell them about these strange fantasies and feelings we’ve been having about them.

I’m of the understanding that a wide range of Ts are not very familiar with or understanding of transference. It sort of can be hit or miss with any T. (I could be off-base, just my own experience and perception from other groups)

Some Ts seem to have experience and handle it well, and those are the ones that probably can pick up on your signals.

But other Ts, like my previous one, have no experience with it and are very unknowledgeable about it and ill-equipped to handle transference. When I finally told my previous T about my erotic transference she revealed that I was only the 2nd patient that felt this way for her in over 20 years of practice. I find that very hard to believe, (she was a very nice looking woman). So that just tells me that no one else said anything about their transference except us 2 and she never believed anyone else would’ve felt that way. Which is completely unbelievable to me. If one is a T they should know about all the potential issues of the t/patient relationship. And they should expect intimate feelings to develop, transference or not. So I don’t think she would’ve picked up on my feelings or trials with transference.

My current T says the t/patient relationship is an intimate one. And we did discuss potential transference early on, but I still worry about her ability to handle it.

I think the responsibility has been left to the client to ask initially, on the phone or at first meeting if the T has appropriate experience with the client’s issues, has transference experience, T’s general background, and any limitations, boundaries, or other issues that may obstruct care.

But since so many seeking care only know we are in a bad or not so ideal place in life, or for whatever reasons people have sought therapy, it may not be a place where these direct questions are even thought about let alone asked.

It actually offends me that Ts are not more sensitive to this. It seems to waste time being with a T that is not compatible when there may exist the option to see someone else. I also think that Ts tend to be like ostriches with their heads in the sand when it comes to having to recognize that a client might have transference. Some Ts call it “letting the client go at their pace and talk about things in their own time” I think that’s crap. What I would’ve liked is for my old T to say “you know, sometimes this relationship can be intense and lead to different intense feelings. I want to hear about them if you think you might be feeling them”. And then to check in on me every so often about it. But Noooooo.

Oops Sorry, I’ve gone off on a bit of a rant, haven’t I?

I guess what I’m trying to say Lizzygirl is that he may suspect something if he has studied and has experience with transference. In 30 years one would think he has. But then again mine had 20+ years, so who’s to guess.

Can I ask how long you’ve been with him? Time may make a difference too. If he picks up on it because he has been noticing “something’s up” for the past few months may be different from noticing something from the past few weeks.

And yes, I absolutely agree with you, Ts should tell every patient about transference, (and be ABLE to tell about it) even if it’s just a clinical description of. Some type of acknowledgment that it exists and might one day happen, would go a long way.

Additionally, I’d like to add on that they should explicitly discuss the physical and emotional rules on boundaries that they personally have. Like some hug, some don’t. I hate that it’s a guessing game until you ask.

quote:

Originally posted by MacLove:
For me, being able to talk about the feeling that I am having towards him, and hearing his responses, have made out relationship stronger, and I don’t think it would have had the same effect as if he had just told me about transference from the start.

Oh, GOOD point Maclove!

I didn't consider this point of view when I was making my post. I just wanted to add on this though if that's ok, since I stated that I feel T's should talk about transference at the beginning.

I think it's awesome you and your T was able to talk about it and explore the feelings. That is idea too.

In my post (and biased pov) I was thinking about those clients who are not comfortable telling Ts about their feelings because these feelings may feel new, strange, and even unwanted. So there is this pressure of "feeling like a freak" or weird for having them. And not all Ts are good or foster good communication environments. (a big frustration of mine )

I think even if the client doesn't understand the concept of transference it can be discussed in a way that doesn't lead the client to feeling pressured to develop those feelings.

Just having the T say and reiterate that they WANT to know about the client's feelings about the relationship overall would be helpful. (from the perspective of someone who felt like my T did Not want to hear about them. and when I did finally say, she dismissed the feelings by saying "it happens" and they were never spoken about again)

So I could of course be biased in this point of view, but I have been around groups of people hurting over improperly handled transference.

I would say it's well worth discussing in the beginning if it does not cause pressure and if the main message isn't "you might love me one day", but rather "I think it's important to know how you feel about and interact with all the people in your life including me. Please share with me any thoughts or feelings you may have about your relationships, especially if they seem to remind you of other times in your life that you've felt this way."

Then that opens the discussion for anger, hurt, or love; whatever feelings that may occur without the pressure to love them or feel in any particular defined way.

does that make sense?

Forlorn-
I noticed that you said a couple times that you have a biased point of view. You are definitely not the only one who has a biased point of view. My response is biased to my experience also. (One of the synonyms for biased is ‘influenced’ which I think is a much nicer word. It’s not always necessarily being biased, but simply influenced by our own experiences.) I have a T who is always understanding of absolutely everything that I say. I know that I have been very lucky in that. So I tend to think that all other T’s must be as great as mine, and if you tell him about transference he has to respond in an understanding way because that’s all I’ve known with my therapist.

quote:

Originally posted by Forlorn:
I would say it's well worth discussing in the beginning if it does not cause pressure and if the main message isn't "you might love me one day", but rather "I think it's important to know how you feel about and interact with all the people in your life including me. Please share with me any thoughts or feelings you may have about your relationships, especially if they seem to remind you of other times in your life that you've felt this way."

Yes, totally understand what you’re saying, and I think this is a good idea. Not anything specifically about intense erotic feelings or anything, just to make sure that the C knows the T is open to talking about their relationship.

I have been seeing my T for about 3 years.
I think I began experiencing the transference
about a year ago. I can believe how dependent I have become on him, mainly to validate my present experiences with my husband. I could never tell him about the erotic fantasies, I would be too embarrassed (OMG) and worry he would leave me. If he asked me if I experienced any feeling for him, I think I would have a hard time lying but I believe I would try my darnest. I know I'm hearing here these feelings should be discussed. I dont think my transference is affecting the real work of my therapy.

Hi, Lizzygirl. It's a tough one. Good for you if you are able to keep the transference from affecting the work of tyour therapy. That would be impossible for me. I experienced strong transference from the first time I met my T. It is hard to deal with, very. I know my T said at one point that it was important to discuss all the feelings with him, but I do not think I would be able to really do that. I don't have the erotic kind of transference, or at least I keep it at bay, more of a strong paternal feeling. It must be very difficult to deal with those emotions.

BB

BB, good luck to you with keeping the feelings at bay
I also had a strong parental kind of feeling, but since the guy is about my age, and good-looking and all, different kind of feelings arose and I am not trying to repress them anymore. He seems to be all accepting and welcoming, but I just don't know how to be with him having "these feelings", how to talk about it, how to sit, to look at him, to talk to him.
Every now and again I just stare at him and admire his body, his skin and freak out that he sees all this. This is the challenge for me, because saying to him that I love him was not a big deal at all, compared to "this"....

quote:

BB, good luck to you with keeping the feelings at bay

Thanks Amazon...ok, I feel shameful for admitting it. But this last session I got freaked out. My T always is like Gandalf to me. Old wise man, bearded and wise T, Please take me home with you and teach me how to live by the laws of the universe. I will be your disciple. groan.
But this last session-eek. He was wearing like a t-shirt or something. It ;looked weird to me. Whoa, there, wait a minute T you look like a human being in that. Then I realized...eek, he looks like a ...er...man in that. An old man, yeah, but a *darn* unbelievably manly old man. eek. It's disturbing me. I am not a person who feels guilty deep inside for feeling I can't help, but I do feel guilty that I know I would have no qualms about acting on them and that freaks me totally out, because I know, kind of from the outside, (if that makes sense) right from wrong. I'm married. Should I quit therapy if I had feelings like that? (For the record, I could never in ten zillion years tell my super religious T that stuff. I would rather croak)

BB

BB, no, you shouldn't quit therapy over this and because you are married.
These are feelings, we don't control our feelings, we may control ourselves not to act on them, but the feelings don't come to life on our demand.
I hope your T is willing to take on this stuff in therapy as well.
This is the way we are. We do have sexual feelings about people sometimes.
Now, intellecutally I understand this is normal and not such a big deal. But I do freak out and run away from this when it comes up in my sessions.

Aw, thanks for comforting words, Amazon. I think I will also continue to freak out and run away from this should it appear again. Fortunately I will never meet my T "live" so it's not as much of an issue. I guess he would be ok talking about it- I have no idea. But I'm not going there. I just can't kwim?

BB

I started this post a while back. Still have issues with transference. I have not discussed my feelings for him...Im chicken. But I have gotten upset with him when he couldn't see me, or changed my appointment, and he knows I feel insecure when he is on vacation...like now...seems like he has been on vacation more than in the office this year. That 5 weeker to Nepal almost killed me.
So this dependence on him....are these all transference issues? Or attachment feelings? He never brings any of this up in detail with me. Just mentions matter of fact like, "so you got panicky because I changed our appointment" Or, "what are you going to do when I go away, and he chuckles?" This just embarrasses me and I dont want to talk about it. Yet I long to hug him and plant a big kiss on him. He is not someone I would ever normally be attracted to which is also interesting. If he does pick up my signals, he is not disclosing it to me
which seems like the ethical thing to do from his perspective. He wouldn't want to encourage my transference if it is sexual right? I think he finds me attractive but thats it. But how does transference fit into the everyday therapeutic relationship? Should or Shouldn't it exist...doesn't this mean our relationship is working? It so confusing!!! I was late for a session, just by 10 minutes, and he called to find me sounding very concerned where I was. He is on vacation this week, and he asked if I wanted him to call me and I said yes. I'm trying to not be too dependent but like I said, maybe I'm supposed to be, but to what degree is healthy. Can anyone help me sort this out?

Hello Lizzy,

While in therapy, I always find it interesting to try to take a step back to put things in context (which usually brings clarity). For example, can you link this particular transference with a previous relationship you had or wished you had ? Or do you see any similarities between this and the symptoms/disorder that brought you to therapy ? Maybe you'd find something interesting by exploring these questions...

As a T, I always encourage the people I see to speak their mind. In your case you're 'aware' of your transference. That's half the battle. Transference in everydays life is the norm. The therapeutic setting is here, in part, to 'explore' the transference. Therapy enables the analysis of transference. Does it make sense ?

Do you think you could bring yourself to talk about it with your T ?

Well, I'm in therapy because of being in an abusive and alcholic marriage for over 30 years.
I need affection, security and trust in my life. And with the abuse, major validation needs, and I feel I need that from a man which is understandable to me.
No I couldn't ever bring myself to talk about the transference with him, unless I stumbled upon it with him or he mentions it.

quote:

pressure

OK so I have been with my therapist for 19 years...dealing with issues around child abuse, abandonment, and sexual difficulties. My therapist has always been very open minded and accepting of anything I am feeling. It is still sometimes hard for me to open up to her even after all of these years together. She is like a Mom to me though and some of the feelings I have for her are sexual in nature. It's very confusing for me as I have been married to my husband for 30 years. But it happens at times that I have these crazy fantasies mainly at night when I am alone and afraid. My husband travels a lot. I have told her about it and she is OK with me telling her. I told her I am afraid if I discuss the issue with her that she will be uncomfortable and I am afraid that she won't want to to see me. She told me that I have nothing to worry about that my feelings are my feelings and if I need to talk about it with her I can without feeling like I will be rejected or criticized. I told her I was afraid if I talked about it with her that she would no longer hug me at the end of our sessions. She told me that if her hugs are causing me any "harm" she would not hug me but until I tell her that she will gladly hug me if I ask her to. It stll makes me feel really lousy to have those kinds of intense feelings she is 16 years older than me. You just don't have sexual feelings about someone who is like a Mom...I wish I could make it stop.

Dear Cmac,

Nice to meet you - welcome to the boards. I just want to tell you something that has helped me deal with and contain my paternal transference issues with older (non-t) men. However much your T is like a mom - she's not your mom. I'm not trying to be facetious or dismissive here, and I'm not trying to down-play the intensity of the mom-like feelings either. But it really helped me to understand that actually, my feelings were not incestuous. I didn't actually want to have sex with my dad. In real terms, I was having sexual feelings about another adult person who I felt close to - and that's pretty normal. Thinking about them as incestuous feelings just made me panicky, and it actually wasn't accurate. Relationships and feelings are complex, and that is part of their richness. I'm sure there's a lot of painful stuff tied up with the sexual feelings as well as a lot of warmth and intimacy - that makes them powerful to work with in therapy. But if nothing else, they are evidence that you are a whole, living, feeling human being.

Best wishes,
Jones

lizzygirl, i, like you, would have a hard time laying it out there. i guess, for me, knowing it would not be recipricated would just feel humiliating to me. past patterns with parents i guess, no love spoken in the house and if i would have they would have had a sarcastic tone or 'not heard me' or said i was too sensitive.

so...

but, do they sense it?? i can't imagine they don't. but only i see, altho i hear differently, in a male/female relationship (assuming heterosexual). i don't know how i would picture it with woman/woman...i guess i really think of the transference you are talking about is 'erotic transferance', which the term feels like overkill to me, but, just with a sexual nature.

i definitely had a paternal transference with t1, wanted to please, wanted to act out, rebellious, wanted to argue...i think alot of it was a teen/parent type transference. he was a minister, so i think that had a part in me not thinking sexually towards him. and i have a good sexual marriage, so, that base is covered.

t3, yes, mom issues.

dbt gal? i don't know. dependency i think i will soon feel, but mom issues? i don't know, she is younger than me, which at first i think i had a hard time taking her seriously.

so, of course they see dependence, and how their words can affect us, so, if you call that transference that they develop an important role with us, yes, i think they can see that. that SHOULD be there for the issues most of us carry. but erotic transference?? man, that is another deal, and i SO MUCH admire you brave souls willing to lay that out there. after t1 being male and my age, and some of his comments about his marriage and stuff, i started feeling really uneasy, and MAD!!! i thought he was SAFE!! after all, he is a minister!! i got furious with him, although i never told him why, i just ran. so, therefore, i will never go to a man my age again. in fact, one t i interviewed several times, kept coming back to calling him (never met him but he was refered to as 'someone my age') finally i told him my fear of transference, he asked how my marriage was, i said fine, he said it wouldn't be a problem, i told him i hoped he wasn't nice looking, he laughed, and eventually gave me a rec of an older man in his office who is the 'kindest man' he knows. much better. don't want to deal in that arena again, that, for me, just added a whole new element to the t that was hard enough anyway. and i have a real guilty conscious, and felt 'it was my fault' for being too open and vulnerable...thinking, don't all men kinda like a 'damsel in distress' who thinks they hung the moon??? ick, too tangled for me..

so, old men, gay men, women not anywhere near my mom's age, but no one too young....kind of narrows it down a bit.

can't play that game...jill is too chicken! jill

I'm trying to put the transference into a positive light. It's definately erotic when I fantasize about him making love to me. It's just me projecting what I am lacking in my marriage onto him. He makes me feel safe in my fantasies, my husband does not. So he is providing me with a wonderful diversion without even knowing it. I really dont think it is compromising our therapeutic relationship, but strengthening it. I am very dependent on him, which is probably not great, but I obviously trust him "intimately" as we sit politely sit opposite each other in session. Is it wrong for me to enjoy this? I will not let him know unless he blatantly comes out and asks me.
I'm swirming thinking of that happening!

lizzygirl, i don't think it is wrong, i think it is natural and normal. and personal. for me, it would distract me from getting what i know i need to get, as i would try too hard to be likeable. but, that may not be you, and there is a big school of thought of the helpfulness of fantasies being brought out (to talk about) in therapy. i am just chicken to lay that all out there, so i go for safe harbors...older, older men, gay men would be fine, or women that don't resemble mom.

also, keep in mind, these people are fully engaged in us in session, but we really have no idea how they are with their significant other...probably so bushed from hearing others problems that that is the last thing they want to deal with outside of work! so, it is a fantasy...sorry to be a 'buzz-kill' if i am!! jill

I have been with my counselor for 6 months to find out why I keep sabotaging weight loss but my sessions have barely touched on this as many other issues started coming up and I just went Blah! However from nowhere after a month or so I had a sudden strong erotic fantasy of my counselor which involves physical pleasure not emotional, so I’m not in love with her, or in reality wanting her but I need to discuss it as it’s a pattern I’ve experienced with teachers, GP etc. I trust my counselor who is heterosexual, I am lesbian. Due to embarrassment I briefly wrote my problem down and gave it to my Counselor; she appeared ok with this and assured me it’s something she can handle.

However approx. four months on I mentioned I would like to discuss transference but her response was “Not now”. Today I said I need to discuss transference but she didn’t look keen so I followed it with ‘but not discuss the act of’ she shrugged it off by flicking her hand over her shoulder and said “What do you want to talk about?” The impression I’m getting is she don’t want to discuss this, I’m not sure if it’s something she is embarrassed about and unable to discuss or she feels it’s not the right time; I would like an explanation from her be it personal or professional giving me the choice to stay or move on? I understand what transference is about. Does anyone have any suggestions how I can deal with this sensitively?

Chezza,

What is her background?

I was reading the internet, which said, if you have transference, talk about it with your T. I kept bringing it up to him because I thought it was what I was supposed to do and was getting a similar type of responses that you are getting. It took a crisis to get him to look at his own discomfort.

What I have learned is that a lot of T's are really uncomfortable with transference and with discussing transference. My T was. In any event, I have a happy ending in that everything worked out okay. But I wasn't paying attention to the "wall" I was feeling.

I think it's great that you are picking up on the fact that she's uncomfortable with it and it's not you. My suggestion would be to address it directly. What about if you say something like, "I'm sensing that you are uncomfortable with transference by your reactions when I've tried to bring it up. Is it something you really aren't comfortable dealing with?"

My T was also very unaware of the nonverbals he was sending. Perhaps your T is as well. She may think she's being open, etc., but her body language, etc. is telling you something else.

If she denies being uncomfortable with it, you just have to trust your gut. I don't think my T would have acknowledged it if I brought it up a year ago because he wasn't aware of it then. He is paying much more attention to his body language now and I am able to stand my ground with him when I see something in his body language that is inconsistent with the message he is verbally communicating.

Good luck.

Thank you Liese your response has been very helpful. I feel dishonerable writing this but I am really stuck and confused by this. My Counselor (C) is trained in Psychotherapy & Counselling - Humanistic and Integrative she also supervise & assess social work students and has over 10 years experience which is why I choose her.

Like you on the internet and the many books I’ve read they all say bring it up with your counselor! I am finding it frustratining week after week at first saying nothing then being closed down once spoken. I’ve just thought of something… My counselor has seen me very stressed and unable to speak so whether she feels I’m not ready to speak about it I don’t know?

I am sorry you’ve had a negative experience but am so pleased your counselor manned up and dealt with his issues, good on you for perseving. Not sure I’m as strong as you. I was thinking of emailing my thoughts and feelings giving my C time to think about how we might be able to move forward, what do you think? Thank you for showing me how I can broach the subject with her sensitvely I really appreciate your help.

Last week I asked her about her body language (hand over clenched fist held to chest) I described this to a friend who said it meant she was threatened! I asked my counselor about it she asked me what I felt it meant I said I didn’t know but told her what my friend said. She said she wasn’t aware of being threatened at any time but felt it was an unconscious gesture and that maybe she had cold hands – she was physically uncomfortable by my mentioning this to her!

Like you I will pay more attention to her body language and hopefully get to the point where I can stand my ground with her when I see something in her body language that is inconsistent with the message she is verbally communicating, this is very useful, thank you.

Thank you so much Liase

Cheeza,

I'm glad what I wrote was helpful. Just recently I read the book In Session by Deborah Lott. I think she was a therapy patient who suffered from her own transference. The whole book is devoted to the issue. She found through the course of investigating the topic for the book, after interviewing many women and therapists, that not many therapist are that comfortable dealing with the issue.

quote:

My counselor has seen me very stressed and unable to speak so whether she feels I’m not ready to speak about it I don’t know?

You can't assume this. I thought my T was doing the same thing, holding me off until I was ready. But that wasn't it at all. We can now talk about everything. I asked him recently what the big deal was? Why was he so uncomfortable? I told him it just didn't seem like such a big deal from where I was sitting. It's such a common phenomenon and everyone talks and knows about it. T's aren't supposed to take it personally but they seem to on some level.

Anyway, my T just smiled and said, Liese, (he read Deborah Lott too) a lot of therapists are uncomfortable with it, right? I let him off the hook that time and didn't press the issue.

Writing things down when you can't speak is such a great idea. It would be the best possible outcome if you could resolve the issue with her but you really need to find out what her comfort level is. Her discomfort is making it worse for you.

Can you test your theory? Be straight up and ask her if she's putting off the conversation because she thinks you aren't ready to talk about it? I was constantly attributing intentions to my T that weren't there and it caused me to get hurt, actually, because I wasn't feeling his wall. I kept thinking it was all part of my treatment.

Good luck. Please post again if you have a hard time with it or just need support about anything.

Liese I am very gratful for the time and effort you’ve put in to sharing your experience with me. You’re a wise woman.

I have just ordered ‘In Session by Deborah Lott’ thank you for telling me about it, I’ve just read a little about about the book on this site – Community Forum, it looks a very interesting read for me initally then I’ll pass it on to my Counsellor if she’ll read it?
You’re right I shouldn’t assume what my counselor is thinking, thank you for reminding me of this.

How long have you/were you with your T? I’ve been wondering whether to leave mine although I don’t want to start over again with anyone else. She appears to be a nice woman but nice is not going to get me through the changes I’m hoping for. Should my C find dealing with Erotic Transference uncomfortably and is honest about it I would respect her and hope we can work through it. I’m no threat to her, I’m more interested where its coming from as she’s not the only one this has happened to and I don’t want to stop focussing on her so I can apply my energy towards searchinng foor and developing a relationship that has depth and meaning – a soul mate if you know what I mean?
I like how your T handled your sitiuation, albeit you had to push it but at least he didn’t shy away in the end. You taught him some important lessons I hope I can be strong enough to address the issue with mine.

I’ve started to do a journal about my sessions and throughout the week, I only started it last week. I find it hard speaking to my Counselor so have written some of my vulnerable issues down for her to read, but we never discussed them?

You’ve inspired me Liese, I’ll post and let you know how I get on.

Thank you so much.
Chezza

Hi Chezza,

Sorry I spelled your name wrong in my last post. I've been with my T for 5 years this month. I know that sounds really long but I went every other week for a long time. And then we went through a rough patch for about 9 months. Then it took about a year to rebuild trust fully after that so we are just getting to the point now of being able to do some emotional work. It has been quite a roller coaster ride.

He didn't shy away from it in the end because my functioning got really bad and he was finally able to make the connection between his behavior and what was happening for me. He felt really bad. He just thought he was being professional. Drawing those boundaries. He was also afraid of dependency. The funny thing, though, is the more he accepted my dependency, the more independent I am becoming. Not that I'm going to win a prize for independence by any stretch of the imagination but....

The best thing to do is to try to open up the conversation with her and see how she reacts. Be honest with her, that you feel like she's really uncomfortable with the subject.

Another thing you could do is to go on a consult. This will help you feel a little more independent. You can bounce ideas off of the other therapist. There is nothing wrong with the occasional consult when things seem to be a little harder than they have to be. Or you could even see two T's at the same time just to have some extra support even though you are not really supposed to do that. It would just give you another option.


Let me know what happens.

hey Chezza,

Reading your posts with Liese reminded me of something with my T. Altho there is no erotic Transference involved - there are a few things that I think my T is uncomfortable about talking about. I have told her this, she says she isn't - but my hypervigilance tells me otherwise. I am going to keep tackling her on it.

My T is getting help with a few issues by getting specialist supervision / therapy -which i am freaked out about, but I can see that she is taking responsibility for her part in our relationship. She has also hurt me badly and I know she is distressed about that - for that alone, I think she needs a colleague to talk to.

It is OUR therapy and we should be able to talk about things - especially so when we need to talk about a difficult issue - our T's should be able to handle that or they are not meeting our needs and restricting our progress.

Maybe it is wiser to do as Liese suggests and see a consult T to talk about this?

Somedays

Hi Liese

Five years with your T is a long time but I recently understand why clients stay in therapy so long. It its working for you then that’s all that counts, I am resigning myself to long-term counseling as I have many years of ‘unpicking to do’.

I am finding this site quite intriguing as you all appear to have staying power like ‘Stand-up-and –fight’ which us Brits call the American way, I think we tend to be far too polite and forgiving at the cost of our own well-being. I admire your assertive stance with your T and would like to be able to do this too. On saying that I’m not sure in what direction my counselling will go as I don’t know what stance my counsellor will take once I as broach the transference subject with her and if she’s uncomfortable with it. The more I think about it the more I’m sure she misreads my vulnerability for weakness. I also feel she’s not being totally honest with me and is hoping I stop seeing her as she’s often told me I could find someone else which has confused me I even asked her why she needs to keep reminding me. Once I arrived for a session she was surprised as she didn’t think I would turn up, that was the following week after I told her (in writing as I was leaving a session with her agreement of course) about my having erotic fantasy towards her (no details) and how badly it was effecting me! I guess it was her wishful thinking I wouldn’t turn up!

My Last session I told her I was thinking of finding another counsellor as I was struggling with not being able to be open with her, she asked me what it would achieve and said I might get a different response! I also said I didn’t think she liked me (which I believe) she asked me if I meant if she respected me but she didn’t answer my question so I guess I take this as no; considering I share stuff with her I’ve never spoken to anyone else about is this unfair of me to expect? I have always been polite and done nothing for her to feel threatened by. Do I stay or do I go I ask myself but I feel she owes me some explanations before I decide which route I will take.
Your T sounds a good guy and is open to learn. You’re doing remarkable, I truly hope my counsellor is open to change or another one if need be but I hope not as the last six months would have been wasted.

The trouble with going to another counsellor is I only work two days a week so money is tight and secondly I promised myself I would be open and honest with my counselor and would find it hard to say nothing. I know I will tell her about my conversing in this blog but not the site. I don’t particularly want her reading this.

Geez it’s Sunday afternoon so I better respond to the other message and go get some work done.

Many thanks, please keep each other posted, you’re an inspiration for me, I shell take you to my counselling next Friday.

Chezza

Thanks Somedays

You know until recently I was only thinking about my Counsellor reading my body language and what I might be saying, then I read numerous books/articles that state the counsellor/client is a two-way relationship, it clicked and I started looking at her body language which surprised me as she’s definitely showing how uncomfortable she is on being questioned such as why one hand was clenching her fist against her chest whist I was talking!

Once my Counsellor knew about my erotic transfer towards her, she told me it was ok, I asked her if she can deal with it she said yes but that I should “forget it now”. I said I would have no problems with her discussing it with a colleague/supervisor but her response was she will deal with her needs or words to that effect.

How did you manage to stay with a T who hurt you badly? I guess it was something you were determined to have resolved but me I probably would have walked away resolving nothing and just doing what I always did, walk away from things eh? Well done you, I must remember you when I want to escape!

I find it hard with my counsellor to discuss difficult issues, she definitely shines in areas she’s interested in or shies away if not and I have allowed this to happen! My counselor has seen me in distress for over four months, she knows why but never addresses the issue and when I have she doesn’t want to know.

Liese is wise and I’m hoping to follow her suggestion next week, you’re wise to and I shell remember your words to!

Thank you Chezza

I stay with her Chezza because all my life when things got tough - I cut people off or they dumped me, abandoned me, rejected me. With my T - I am attached to her and I feel that she is the 1 person in my life that I should be able to practice all these new things with. I am "using" her to practice and try and do new things with.

She has said she will stay with me for as long as it takes, even until we are really old, and she will be there until I want to stop therapy after I have reached my goals. She has made a commitment to me and I am trying to make a commitment to her and to keep going back to her even when she hurts me. When she let me down - it really was her fault and she is deeply sorry and regretful- I know this because she cried in my therapy session - and you can't fake that!!! It was a session where we were both very raw and honest with each other and we both cried.

I still find it hard to discuss difficult issues - i think it doesn't matter how close and trusting you are to your T - things will still be difficult, but I think you do get better at it and once your T shows you that you can bring up the difficult things without being "punished" then you gain confidence to do it again.

It does bother me that your T seems to be avoiding the ET - that is a biggie and it really does need to be sorted out.

I am very interested in seeing how you go with it.
Somedays

Chezza,

Has she read In Session? It might help her. I gave it to my T to read after I read it and he really appreciated it.

Hi Liese, I’ve ordered In Session from Amazon it’ll take a while to get here as its coming from America. Once I have read it I’ll pass it on to her.

Chezza

me me me me

[quote]me me me me

Sorry if I'm being selfish, I am interested what you have to say Liese

Chezza, Liese didn't mean it the way it comes across, here's a link to explain what she meant

Check in thread

LL

Sorry Liese if I'm interfering, just trying to be helpful

Thanks Lamplighter

((((CHEZZA))))

My thought process started on the check in thread and then I posted random me me me me's on the top threads in each forum without any due regard for how it might be interpreted. There was no intent to minimize anyone's pain. I'm sorry if it caused you pain. I was hoping to make people smile on an otherwise gloomy day.

No harm done Liese, I guessed I might have read it wrong as it didn’t make sense and thought it might be a cultural thing, Lamplighter explained so no worries there… you go with the flow eh

Chezza

I was quite nervous discussing the following with my T. “I would like to say to you I'm sensing that you are uncomfortable with discussing transference by your reactions when I've tried to bring it up with you. Is it something you really isn’t comfortable dealing with”? T first wanted me to answer a question of hers: “What do I mean by transference”. I said what was going on for me had nothing to do with her but of someone else in my past although I didn’t know who; also that I have no illusion that anything could happen between us. This has happened before and what I would like to know is why it happens? I said that if I am right about her that would be something she will have to deal with and if I am wrong about her then that’s how I have been and I will need some work done on it. T never answered my question but I can’t remember exactly what she said other than about how she say’s things and watching her body language. She also reiterated I can say anything I want in my sessions even about her and if it made her uncomfortable she’ll deal with it herself and for me not to concern myself with. Obviously more discussion was had but it’ll probably take a while before I can process it.

T observed that all our time has been taken up with analyzing my ‘stuff’ and feelings has been omitted and that perhaps we should be concentrating on this more which I agreed with. Homework has been given to record my feelings this week both good and bad! At this stage I don’t know how I feel apart from being exhausted and tired. I have every intentions of staying with my T but hope we can feel more ‘safe’ and open with each other!

Chezza

((((CHEZZA))))

Wow. Congrats to you for bringing it up. It was very brave. She sounds like she wants to try to work it through with you though it didn't sound incredibly reassuring. Do you think that you need to know how she feels about you? If she cares about you, etc.?