Im no expert on this topic but I wouldn't think that two or more transference reactions would occur at the exact same time.

In my opinion people can often feel ashamed of erotic transference and therefore could look for a reason why they are experiencing these reactions.

Maternal transference however is different and even though it could cause shame or other confusing emotions it is a more acceptable transference reaction.

If your worried about this it would probably be a good idea to discuss your feelings with your therapist.

CT,
I have experienced both maternal and homo-erotic transference for my T and I am a happily married and content heterosexual. I can happily report that it does not feel so EEEEWWWW! to me anymore as I understand its complexity and meaning much more than I used to. There was a time I felt so replusive and disgusting and feared my T would feel the same way about me for having these feelings espcecially mixed feelings for her. But she has been very understanding and helpful in my coming to terms with whatever it is I am feeling for her at the time. (I have posted on my discomfort with this subject several times)

I know it can be confusing to have one or the other type transference alone, but I understand the confusion in experiencing a merger of the two that just do not seem to belong together. I guess to put it simply, it does not have any reprehensible significance as you may fear.

I have much I can share about this and will be glad to do so at a later time when I can get back to it, but for now I can say that both transference types are a desire and longing for closeness and to feel special and loved. What my T has helped me to understand is that these feelings have a much more complex meaning to each individual experiencing them. There is not generic code to apply to every case, but essentially with the erotic transference it is a desire for equality in a relationship. To be needed and loved as much as you need and love your transference object. A sexual relationship is also where the least amount of boundaries exist and so it is a struggle for closeness and personal access that we can't have, but long for and desire with our T. But the main struggle is to be equal and to have balance in what we experience as an unbalanced relation with our T who does not need us at all. It is much more innocent than it appears.

As for maternal transference that is much more obvious the longing and desire for a mother/attachment figure; to be loved, nurtured, taken care of, cuddled, held, adored, and cherished by her. Both transference types are acceptable and important to discuss with our Ts as they will reveal our inner most needs.

I can honestly say that despite the intense homoerotic transference feelings I still get on occaision, I DO NOT want to have sex with my T. This is not something I could ever truly act on anymore than I could literally climb on her lap as an adult when I am feeling the maternal transference for her. This is where the realization and safety of our T's boundaries can become such a security for us. I DID go through a phase and I confessed this to my T not long ago, that if she had been inclined to breech my trust in that area that I would have succumb to it very easily even though I know this is not what I would really want. I told her I am happy that I could trust her so much and she reassured me that I can alsways trust her not to betray my trust and she will always guard my vulnerability very carefully.

There is so much more I could share, but I need to leave shortly. If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask. This is one subject I can say I understand quite well and that I accept and understand much better than I used to and I would like to help anyone who is "suffering" from the conflict of having these feelings.
JM

Thank you JM for writing all of that out. Since transference came up again in my session last week (I brought it up)and I expect it will again, this has given me a lot of food for thought.

TN

quote:

I could literally climb on her lap as an adult when I am feeling the maternal transference for her.

HAHA! it suks bein in an adult body i would do this, bu i does hold her hand. and her pets me hair even. duno if her is alowed to, but her say its ok cuz i'm just 14

samy

I think having maternal/paternal AND erotic/homo-erotic feelings for a parent or therapist makes perfect sense if you think about it from the perspective of an infant or very young child. I mean, doesn't an infant/young child have an innate awareness of the most basic, elemental kind of physical connection there is between them and their parent, or between any human beings for that matter? There's obviously nothing erotic about it at that age, but I think that longing for that most basic, elemental connection is there from the very beginning. And let's face it, what's more elemental/evolutionary than that connection?

Then maybe as we grow into sexual beings that connection gets loaded with the erotic stuff. In any case, I don't think such a "merger" would be abnormal or uncommon at all. I think it would be fairly human actually.

As my T has said, all humans are polysexual, despite their conscious sexual preference or gender. I believe this. Some like men, some like women, some like both, some like couch cushions, some like fruits and vegetables. Whatever, it's all in there in my opinion. Who cares. But we are tormented by the ridiculous standards about sexuality that our culture imposes on us.

Just my two cents.
Russ

Couch cushions, huh? I will never look at my T's couch the same way again!!!!

Seriously though Russ, thanks for the words of wisdom and for helping take some of the creepy-ewwwwwness out of the whole situation. My T thinks that, because my mom used me to comfort her and only initiated physical touch with me when it felt good to her, that I got some wires crossed in regards to being nurtured/experiencing physical touch.

Samy, I wish I didn't have this adult body sometimes too! I want to feel small and childlike and have her hold me, but I'm taller and bigger than my T so it would be VERY awkward in reality!

JM- I am also a happily married heterosexual woman with a female T. We discuss the subject and my feelings openly, and she is very gentle, responsible and nonjudgemental about the whole thing. I guess it's just a little difficult because my first sexual experience was with a woman (clearly, my sexuality was not clear to me at that point) who I was experiencing maternal/erotic transference with... my T knows all about it, but it makes things very... messy and confusing... very hard to sort out. I know it all comes from the fact that my emotional/physical intimacy needs were never met with me in mind. If my needs were met, it was either by accident or as a byproduct of my mom trying to meet her needs. I would take care of my mother and comfort her as a way of me getting to feel special and close to her.

I'm in a pretty good place with all of it now, working slowly but surely with my T, but it all feels very big and heavy. I don't feel shame about my feelings, they are what they are, but I just wish I could work through them all more quickly and efficiently. Is therapy EVER quick and efficient? I guess if these things could be sorted out quickly and efficiently, we probably wouldn't need to see a therapist...

Anyway, thanks for the input everyone. I'm really liking this place.

CT,

Also, my guess is that a lot of this stuff operates below our level of consciousness. Is it something you would consciously choose to do? If not and it's happening anyway, than it's an unconscious operation and should be honored as something real and is in existence for a good reason.

Sounds like you're doing just that, so good for you. Without going into detail, I am in a very similar place with this stuff. It's really really hard to come to terms with.

Russ

quote:

I know it all comes from the fact that my emotional/physical intimacy needs were never met with me in mind.

CT

This is something that I am finally starting to realize. It just never dawned on me before that I am so afraid to let others comfort me because I didn't get that nurturing as a child. I also have no idea of how to ask for this from others, even my husband. I am realizing that this is a complicated problem for me. I am adopted and was not given to my parents until I was 10 weeks old. I have no idea of where I was and who took care of me. I am guessing that I did not have the type of nurturing that I gave my own children from the moment of birth. My adoptive mom was a very wonderful woman, but touch was not comfortable for her. I do not have any memories of sitting on her lap, snuggling, or just being comforted. Therefore, I deeply yearn for this from my T. I go in and out of thinking about whether it is erotic or maternal, but I have come to the conclusion that with her it is maternal.

Strangely enough though, I have had an on going email relationship with a T who does not live in my town. I have never met her in person, but I do know what she looks like (picture on her web site) and she has been a huge help to me. At one point, I had transference for her and my T at the same time. I really believe that my transference for her was erotic. Because I felt safe in telling her this (through the computer ), I was able to get her response and not die of embarrassment. She explained that it was probably more of a yearning to be comforted, understood and utterly satisfied because I didn't get that as a child. It took me awhile to think this out, but then it made sense to me. I no longer have those feelings for her, although we still keep in touch and I still think very highly of her.

I also would love to climb up on my T's lap and just let her hold me. What a site that would be! She is a very petite woman and only about 4 yrs. older than me. Sheesh! I hate how this therapy thing makes me feel so young and immature! I guess that is what is supposed to happen, but it sure is disturbing to me.

PL

quote:

Originally posted by the dude:

i would do this, bu i does hold her hand. and her pets me hair even. duno if her is alowed to, but her say its ok cuz i'm just 14

samy

That is really nice your T does that for you. I think it you have a very nice and caring T Samy.

quote:

know it all comes from the fact that my emotional/physical intimacy needs were never met with me in mind. If my needs were met, it was either by accident or as a byproduct of my mom trying to meet her needs. I would take care of my mother and comfort her as a way of me getting to feel special and close to her.

Pretty much ditto for me too CT. I had never quite thought of that spin on it before that it would possibly be due to the fact that I was the caretaker and our roles were so skewed that it skews my experience with other female authority figures. But it makes sense. As does the fact that in my case anyway, CSA also skewed my sense of love and acceptance with acts of sex. However these connections are made it is certainly understandable that we get triggered in this extremely intimate relationship we have with our T. But I really don't think there is a generic branding for any of it.

But the idea that we feel this way and have a trusting relationship to work through these feelings is a good and acceptable thing and we should not feel ashamed, though I so get why we do. I'm not totally over that part of it, but I am much more accepting than I used to be and I try to notice what sort of things trigger these responses in me. Quite often I have noticed that it is amidst an extra difficult situation I am processing that I tend to seek a closer proximaty to my T. As if that signifies complete safety and acceptance to me somehow.

To add to what Russ already pointed out, when we are infants we are completely reliant on our mothers (typically) to provide for all our needs, physically, emotionally, and mentally. And with that connection we learn to experience (supposedly) joy, acceptance, excitement, arousal, and contentment, etc. When these are not received we continually seek them throughout our lives whether positively or negatively, and in more adult like settings. As our Ts step into play they take on an emormously significant role in this during our adult life when it is so much more fertile for erotic transference to occur.

I hope this makes more sense than I am feeling as I type this. I am sorry if it doesn't because I am in a bit of a fog again today.

JM,

For someone in a fog, you seem pretty clear and lucid to me.

So I'm still figuring all this out, but my T feels that just such a "fantasy" is at the core of my problems. He feels that I unconsciously created a fantasy to be physically close to my dad because he was never, ever available for that in real life with me. So what happened was that I wanted the kind of closeness that I saw him have with my mom and I kind of created this idea of me having the same thing with him that my mom did. It's not necessarily a sexual longing, but a physical one.

The problem is that this unconscious fantasy completely conflicts with the intense anger that I also have for him, and this generates an incredible amount of anxiety. Does this make sense?

This is a pretty new development, so I'm not sure what we'll do about it. But it is scaring the living crap out of me.

CT, you're far from alone. Yeah, it's freaky and disgusting on one level, but you have to get around that to see that it's actually totally human and, ultimately, incredibly sad because it's all just a cry for closeness.

Russ

quote:

So what happened was that I wanted the kind of closeness that I saw him have with my mom and I kind of created this idea of me having the same thing with him that my mom did. It's not necessarily a sexual longing, but a physical one.

The problem is that this unconscious fantasy completely conflicts with the intense anger that I also have for him, and this generates an incredible amount of anxiety. Does this make sense?

Russ, this makes absolutely perfect sense to me. It's the classic running to/running away syndrome seen in people with unsecure attachments from childhood. You have this need to seek closeness from your Dad but he would not accept you and seemed to push you away or didn't know how to provide it and so you learned that approaching him with this need was painful and/or dangerous and so you learned to run away from him which then led to anger because you did not get what you needed from your caregiver/parent. And because you could not express your anger it turned into anxiety. When studied most people with anxiety turn out to have unsecure or disorganized attachments to primary caregivers.

I know this scenario played out with my own parents. In my case I couldn't approach my mom with any needs because she either had no time or would freak out emotionally and react out of proportion to what the need was and so I was frightened of approaching her and learned not to do it. So I would end up having to bury my needs and emotions and try to handle it all on my own. I learned this was safer to do and that moving towards her was not a good idea. This conflict turned into anxiety disorder for me with low level depression.

I do this now with my T. I seek closeness with him but watch him with a very wary eye for any, tiny sign that he is rejecting or defensive or would get too overwhelmed by my needs. I am always ready to run from him. I would tell him that I had "one foot out the door" just in case. I am learning from him that it is okay to make my needs known to him and that it won't cause him to react as my mom did. That he is "safe". The learning curve is huge but at least we are working on it.

And I hope this makes some sense.

TN

quote:

When studied most people with anxiety turn out to have unsecure or disorganized attachments to primary caregivers.

TN,

Boy, that fits me like a glove. Thanks a million times for your post. I think you are dead on.

And talking about dad pushing me away or just not being interested, I was looking at two old photos of me and him. In the photos, I'm smiling and obviously glad to be near him, and his expression is one you might see on someone who had just had several root canals done. In fact, I think there's ONE photo in which the man has a smile on his face in all the photo albums I've looked at.

Anyway, thanks so much again for your feedback and information. I didn't know that studies existed of people with anxiety disorders and their issues with attachment.

Russ

Russ- Yeah, I think most of this stuff does lie in our unconscious, and I can certainly see why you are anxious. To hold such extreme feelings about the same person is very painful and confusing. But because of the link that exists between the two feelings (and TN wonderfully described), I think it is important that you validate the importance and significance of each. As for the pics with your dad, I certainly resonate with your feelings. It is hard to look back and see how things were, yet somehow reassuring that your feelings are accurate. I recently went through a box of pics from when I was little, and there is this one that is so illustrative of the way my mother was NOT attuned to my needs. I'm a few months old and am clearly screming my head off (face is all read, mouth is open, arms are flailing) and my mom is holding me and just cheesin' it up for the camera, like I'm not even there. She was in her own world!

PL-

quote:

She explained that it was probably more of a yearning to be comforted, understood and utterly satisfied because I didn't get that as a child.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I am glad that she was able to explain that to you via email where you felt safe and free to express yourself. My T doesn't even do email so I'm stuck bringing these things up in our sessions... sometimes from underneath a pillow- not even kidding!

JM-

quote:

when we are infants we are completely reliant on our mothers (typically) to provide for all our needs, physically, emotionally, and mentally. And with that connection we learn to experience (supposedly) joy, acceptance, excitement, arousal, and contentment, etc. When these are not received we continually seek them throughout our lives whether positively or negatively, and in more adult like settings.

Ain't that the truth!

I fell _in love_ with teacher after teacher after teacher throughout junior high and high school. All of them were women and I was attracted to them maternally and sexually! I gradually became more and more obsessive with each one, until I finally had a sexual relationship with one of them. We had a very... unique relationship, and I can say that I learned SSSOOOOOOO much from it, but as with all transference experiences that culiminate in a physical relationship, it couldn't and wouldn't work. And neither of us really wanted it to. My T now is helping me sort it all out, but I was surprised that my experience with that one teacher didn't change the fact that I have sexual and maternal feelings for my T. It is definitely engrained! It has helped thoguh, because this time around I am a little more willing with her to accept that I don't really want the physical (sexual) things to happen. It's kinda like "Oh, yeah...I tried that and it didn't work!"

I am up getting ready for an inspection.

I saw my old T for well over a decade and I really thought that we were going to be friends when she retired. But no that was not the case. She did things that clearly lead me to believe we'd be friends. ANyway, long story short I had that maternal longing with her too and I have to tell you that it is all but dead in me now. I doubt I will ever seek that out again. I realize now that I will never be able to replace what I lost. I can only grieve it and get support for it. But facing that loss leaves me feeling dead inside. I have been told that there is another side to this that will eventually emerge but I don't see that light at the end of the tunnel yet.

My new T wants me to have these feelings toward her. I can tell she does because she keeps saying that it's okay if I do. She says that whenever I tell her that my feelings toward her are not as intense as toward my old T and that I don't think they ever will be that intense. That is why I am sticking with the new t for now. Because I don't want all that agony right now. Plus I really think I finally have that it is irreplacable and impossible to make up for what I lost in childhood.

quote:

Plus I really think I finally have that it is irreplacable and impossible to make up for what I lost in childhood.

Dear Jo,
I stated those very feelings to my T and she insists that those feelings are capable of being completely healed. Even when you lose a loved one in death it never feels like you will ever get over it and that a it will hurt this way forever, but eventually that does fade.

In this case what has happened to us as far as the attachment process goes, the brains neuroplasticity is amazing and it can be restored. Despite what you are going through with your new T I wanted to pass this along because neurologically speaking there is hope and I want you to know that.

quote:

The problem is that this unconscious fantasy completely conflicts with the intense anger that I also have for him, and this generates an incredible amount of anxiety. Does this make sense?

This is a pretty new development, so I'm not sure what we'll do about it. But it is scaring the living crap out of me.

Oh Russ, this must be so agonizing and yes, it makes complete sense! I can't help but to relate to the anxiety and torment in this way; that as a child we are so vulnerable and willling to just lay our hearts wide open for our parents expecting and wanting them to fill it with love and gentle caring and we have every right to expect that. Instead we get it ripped apart by their sometimes "selfish" inability to understand their vital role in our most intimate needs. We are helpless infants when we enter their lives and we remain feeling helpless and hopeless throughout life when they fail to provide for our innate needs. It's frustrating w/o having to even be aware of it because the vital neurological connections that were never made just keep misfiring deep inside.

It's no wonder why some of us long and ache for our T's in the way that we do and that it manifests itself with a sexual pull, another inate desire that is strongly connected with loving and being loved.

Lately I have noticed that I've been doing a lot of eye searching in my T. Looking deep into her eyes and following them very closely. I am thinking this is an infantile process like when a nursing baby peers deeply into his/her mothers eyes. I feel a strong connection with her this way, like there is a whole other unspoken conversation taking place between us.

quote:

Lately I have noticed that I've been doing a lot of eye searching in my T. Looking deep into her eyes and following them very closely. I am thinking this is an infantile process like when a nursing baby peers deeply into his/her mothers eyes. I feel a strong connection with her this way, like there is a whole other unspoken conversation taking place between us.

JM,
Thanks for posting about this. I've been thinking about making a point of seeking out eye contact since I had such a crisis of trust since my last appt. That I need to look into my Ts eye to seek out the "realness" of the relationship. I know that in times in the past, when I've had deep eye contact (usually not for very long, because I get too embarrassed) I really see home in his eyes. The place where I'm accepted for who I am, cherished for who I am and welcomed. Its incredibly healing. Reading your post is such an encouragement to look my Ts in the eye tomorrow.

I remember reading in General Theory of Love that our nervous systems are open, when we make deep eye contact with another human being, our nervous systems actually join in a closed loop formed by our limbic systems. You are not imagining that whole other conversation. It's deep and non-verbal but very real.

AG

BTW, CT, I just wanted to add that I experience both a very intense erotic transference and paternal transference with my T. And I understand the EWWWW factor. I was sexually abused by my dad and sometimes I think the erotic transference is an attempt to make this go the way I think it "should" go. Actually my T has explained a number of times that I tend to eroticize all my relationships because sex was part of a relationship where it should never have been and part of the damage is that on some level I think all relationships with men should involve sex.

There's also the belief that the only way I can get some of what I need is to take care of someone else's needs. So for a long time, I unconsciously believed that unless I had sex with my T, I could not get what I needed from him. There was one time when I was working through really not wanting to trust my T because I believed I would just get hurt again (I did a LOT of that) and I actually asked him (I flinch when I think of this now, comparing him to my father) what the difference was between him and my father? Why should I expect anything different to happen? He gave me a very simple but powerful answer. He told me "your relationship with me is all about your needs, your relationship with your father was, wrongly, all about his needs."

So I get why its all jumbled up for mel. Because it was all jumbled up and at a time where it should distinctly not have been. There's a reason that sex is an adult activity.

One other thing, I have come to realize over time that strong erotic feelings are usually a sign that I'm trying to avoid something painful. I seem to seek merger and or power balance more at times when I'm trying to avoid grief.

So I totally get both going on.

AG

quote:

That I need to look into my Ts eye to seek out the "realness" of the relationship.

this sounds like an incredibly wonderful and at the same time VERY scary thing to do!!! thanks so much for posting this jm and ag, it gives me a bit of courage to perhaps contemplate it myself... (one day)

Songbird,
Wonderful and scary is an excellent way to put it!

AG

how do you do think though all that fear though??? my brain gets the idea of it but the rest just can't seem to go there. i'm trying little bits at a time but only ever feeling drenched in tears or dead scared seems no way forward!

quote:

when we make deep eye contact with another human being, our nervous systems actually join in a closed loop formed by our limbic systems. You are not imagining that whole other conversation. It's deep and non-verbal but very real.

AG,
That is exactly what I was thinking when I was posting that. Thank you! I loved that book because of the way it explains what is going on and thus made me feel that what I am experiencing is ok and even scientific. I don't think that w/o knowing this I would have let myself experience this prolonged eye contact with my T. It is sort of uncomfortable at first because in most cases we make eye contact with people with intermitten shifts away. But this has been piercing eye contact right to the soul where I feel her energy transmitting toward me. Very real, very genuine, and very deep. ANd she so willingly shares this deep connection with me and I know she must feel it too. I can't help but feel that she is so kind and loving to give this much of herself. She is always talking, in fact she reminded me as I left last week that there is a part of her that exists within me and is mine to draw on whenever I need it. *lump in throat*

quote:

how do you do think though all that fear though???

SB,
I don't believe any thinking is involved, in fact thinking sometimes needs to be pushed aside to make room for the emotional processing. The whole left brain/right brain struggle cna be tedious, but eventually we get there...slooooowly. All the tears you are drenched in are what you need to experience. Allow yourself to experience the feelings, not the thinking. You're doing just what you brain needs to do. But I know the inate need to want to intellectualize every thing to give it validity. But it really needs to be emotional and those are very seperate aspects of our brain.

In short, I guess what I'm saying SB, is even though it doesn't feel like it, you're doing good.

quote:

In this case what has happened to us as far as the attachment process goes, the brains neuroplasticity is amazing and it can be restored. Despite what you are going through with your new T I wanted to pass this along because neurologically speaking there is hope and I want you to know that.

Thank you JM for giving me that bit of hope. It's very hard to grasp though. It feels like it's going to kill ya when you're in it. I guess that's why I have always sought out a "replacement mom" because to stop doing that means I am hit with this wall of impossible grief. The truth is I am standing on the ledge about to dive in. Searching for that mother figure has proven to be so painful in and of itself.

quote:

Searching for that mother figure has proven to be so painful in and of itself.

Yes, I know. Jo, I always thought I was the only personage in the universe who was constantly searching for a mother. It is such a painful process going through life looking at prospective options and silently questioning; "Will you be my mother?"

I don't know about you but I often felt confused and even guilty for already having a mom and needing a mother so badly that it hurt. I never found anyone who was willing to fill in, or more likely that I allowed in. As much as I searched and longed for it, I wouldn't allow myself to receive it and believed there was something frighteningly wrong with me. I still feel the power of self rejection as projected rejection. It hurts so deeply and I get so sad when I reach out and don't get a response. This little girl inside of me still feels all alone.

quote:

think though all that fear though

that's such a freudian slip - was meant to read 'get through'. but it feels sooooo hard at the moment that i'm probably looking for an easy way out. ha!

quote:

As much as I searched and longed for it, I wouldn't allow myself to receive it and believed there was something frighteningly wrong with me. I still feel the power of self rejection as projected rejection. It hurts so deeply and I get so sad when I reach out and don't get a response. This little girl inside of me still feels all alone.

YES! I know exactly how you feel. I thought there was something terribly wrong with me too. Sometimes I still do. That's why this online group is so cool because here is a group of people who are not only talking openly about their very private experiences but they (we) are also giving each other support. I can't talk to my friends about the stuff we talk about here. It's odd to find this sort of thing online of all places.

About your little girl inside... Have you ever seen her? If so what did you do? I saw mine and immediately I wanted to pawn her off to someone else. Then I had this dream that I was walking along the river shore like I often do. And there was this little girl about 4 years old and I picked her up and brushed the hair out of her face and silently carried her on my walk. I know it was my inner child. It was an odd dream. I felt connected yet in some ways really did not want it. I am not sure she did either.

quote:

Have you ever seen her? If so what did you do? I saw mine and immediately I wanted to pawn her off to someone else. Then I had this dream that I was walking along the river shore like I often do. And there was this little girl about 4 years old and I picked her up and brushed the hair out of her face and silently carried her on my walk. I know it was my inner child. It was an odd dream. I felt connected yet in some ways really did not want it. I am not sure she did either.

*GULP*
Yes, I finally seen her for the first time about a year and a half ago. It was an emotionally haunting experience. I was able to see her curious eyes that looked as though she had been waiting for me to show up all these years and hoping I was ready for this incredible journey to begin. She tends to be quite percocious with so much to teach me, and other times she is a very sad, pitiful, little girl in need of "my love and understanding," ranging in age from about 3-10. My T encouraged me to take her by the hand and we've never parted since. Sometimes it is like I feel her tugging inside me trying to get my attention, though sometimes I feel that she has the floor and the little imp is not willing to give it up.

Lately, I have also discovered other personas within me that seem to be looking for a voice and i'm not sure what all of that signifies just yet. Could be just fragments but they are all male so far, so we shall see.

But I love how you dreamed of your little girl self, Jo. That is a very touching dream and I understand the hesistancy. It is a lack of self love and acceptance. I finally had to tearfully promise my little girl self that I would never supress or abandon her again. And I did this in front of my T who swore she'd never let me forget that promise either. And she doesn't.

my T is teaching me how to be that mother my little girl self has always been searching for.

JM- your post made me cry. I have rejected my little girl self over the years as someone I had no time for. I used to tell myself that she is in the past and I am an adult now.

I started to see her after everything that I went through and I literally took out pictures of myself as a toddler and would look at them and cry. I framed one and put it in my apartment where I can see it everyday. I don't cry when I think of or see that little girl anymore, but she wants her daddy and is looking all over for him.

I want Dr. X to be my daddy...and I want him to be my lover, so I know all about the mixed transference and the ick factor of it. I was ignored by my dad (unless he was verbally abusing me) and he only seemed to value very beautiful women who were usually naked or mostly naked, like the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, and this preference was proudly displayed. At the same time, I received all these negative messages about sex and how my status as female basically made me a liability because I could become pregnant and bring shame on the family. Oh the horror! So I think my worth in a man's eye is totally tied to if he finds me sexually desirable.

Back to that little girl, I have often felt like Dr. X took her little hand and walked with her when she needed it the most, when everyone else had just left her to fend for herself.

SG

(((SG)))

Oh what your poor little girl self went through. It isn't fair. I sort of grew up with a similar image about women being weak and sex objects. My dad had a "boys will be boys" mens club approach to parenting and life and "the only thing women were good for"... "HA HA HA! But you should know I'm only joking," make me puke, inapproriate saditsic humor. Rrrrrright! BITE ME!

It's no wonder I had to create male personas believing that boys were better and stronger than girls. And for a tiny little scrapper I could usually beat the S*** out of any boys who provoked me.

quote:

I started to see her after everything that I went through and I literally took out pictures of myself as a toddler and would look at them and cry.

I did the exact same thing SG! I even took a cpl pics in to show my T to which she replied that I was as angelic as she had imagined. LOL! Ok, yeah whatever.

I can understand why Dr X struck your transference chord so deeply SG. He sounds so warm and caring and not looking at you in that wrong hurtful way. How refreshing that must feel for you to be cared for as the remarkable indiviual that you are and not because you are some sex object or lowly gender. He sounds so gentle and compassionate in his approach, the way I wish my father would have been. Whenever I have seen fathers behave so tenderly to their children it always seemed so odd.

I am glad you got in touch with your little girls self and keping a picture of her out is a good idea. I might have to do that. But I never used to give her the time of day either. I used to ignore her like all the other adults in her life. But no more! Never again!

Its good to hear from you SG.
JM

My T asked to see pictures of me (and the family) and she couldn't get over what a cute little girl I was and how could someone be so mean to her? "Because they are f'ed up," was my response!

I remember looking in Dr. X's eyes and scanning his face when I was trying to tell him about the trauma, and quite honestly, I wasn't sure I could trust him based on what I saw. I told him a little as if I were testing him, just enough that he knew something horrible had happened to me. In response to that, he softened considerably and I knew my story would be safe with him whenever I decided to tell it in full. I often picture my little girl self standing next to him as he holds my hand and we walk through the hospital together.

But always...in the back of my head is what I read about a transferred replay; that I see something familiar in him from the past. That haunts me.

Anyway, I didn't go as "tomboy" as it sounds like you did, but I hid my sexuality (I was very overweight until recently), I didn't care about my body at all, and have just not presented as very feminine, not that anyone has to do so of course, but I just had this feeling that I wanted to be invisible.

(((JM))) as well!

SG

quote:

My T asked to see pictures of me (and the family) and she couldn't get over what a cute little girl I was and how could someone be so mean to her? "Because they are f'ed up," was my response!

Isn't it nice that our T's take that kind of time for us to show genuine interest and concern that they even get upset at how we were treated and the injustices we suffered? I think these are some of the most significant sessions we have when we share something personal and meaningful that way and get such an authentic response and connection. I love feeling that my T is entirely on my side.

I was a bit of a tomboy. I traded my beautiful little dresses and favorite dolls for blue jeans, and cars and trucks when I was about 7 years old. A very pivotol age for me I am finding out. And as for invisible, I just believed I was. I remember the last day of school in 2nd grade my teacher was lining us up to go home and she asked each of us what we were going to do for the summer...everyone but me. And when I tried to speak up and tell her my exciting news that we were moving far away she just ignored me and talked with all the other kids. This from a teacher I had two years in a row. She was sort of distant anyway, but I still remember this so it was very hurtful. I didn't have to pretend or want to be invisible. I went from being the vibrant, adored baby of the family to being a nuisance and in the way it seemed over night somehow. I learned to withdraw and to internalize very young and my mothers first battle with breast cancer was about this time in my life too. It all added up to too much to compete with for attention and I found it easier to just dissociate and pretend none of this was real.

It seems like a lot to undue sometimes.

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I was a bit of a tomboy. I traded my beautiful little dresses and favorite dolls for blue jeans, and cars and trucks when I was about 7 years old.

Oh JM - say it isn't so!!!!! Dolls?? Yuk! I had no time for that! Now climbing trees, getting dirty, having perpetual skinned knees - that was the life! You totally must be my twin!! (although quite a bit younger )

I saw my little girl self about a year ago. I saw myself at about 6 yrs. old skipping along on a plate of glass that surrounded the world. As long as I was above the world by myself, I was happy and ok. But I had a huge fear of the glass shattering, and falling to the world below.

This actually really frightened me and I called my T and cried on the phone to her. At my next session we talked a little about it and she said it was significant, but we really haven't spent too much time on it. Other things interfered with just "my stuff" and sometimes things get complicated because we have to take care of too many things at the same time. That is why after 2 yrs. I still have not finished grieving for my mom. Other things come up and some things get put on the back burner for awhile. I don't know if this makes any sense. In clearer terms, I'm dealing with more than one trauma that took place in a very small amount of time. therefore, it seems like I can't resolve any one in the short amount of time I want, because they all interfere with each other.

PL

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I was a bit of a tomboy. I traded my beautiful little dresses and favorite dolls for blue jeans, and cars and trucks when I was about 7 years old.

Wow, that sounds like me too!! JM, you are so right when you say

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Isn't it nice that our T's take that kind of time for us to show genuine interest and concern that they even get upset at how we were treated and the injustices we suffered?

My T makes me feel so special. I am finding out that she is the connection I have been missing all my life. My mom was very sick when I was young and for quite a few years I was away from home. I think I lost alot growing up. All I knew was to do as I was told, and had no thoughts of my own. I didn't even realize I missed some steps growing up until my T pointed it out to me. I see it now, and how much I have missed in the growing up department. I don't know how to feel or how to talk to people or....I just don't know what it feels like to be loved. If it is anything like what I get from my T, I sure like it.

My T makes me feel really good about myself. I love my T.

Kats

quote:

...their inability to understand their vital role in our most intimate needs.

JM, this is so totally correct. It's an inability to GET IT when it comes to what their role actually is/was. I would also add that in a lot of cases, it's also an unwillingness to LEARN or even to WANT to understand. The example of my mom buying my dad that book about raising a son and him telling her, basically, to go to hell is a perfect example. He never understood his role, and didn't want to understand. He just wanted to work, come home, have his dinner and gin on the rocks and fall asleep watching TV.

Russ

JM, yes it is great to have that interest! My dad was never interested and my mom lost interest after I was about ten because in her words, "you just seemed to be grown up so young!" That should have been a clue that something was wrong, eh mom?

Russ, my dad was the same way. He was unwilling to learn; to him being a dad was belittling and criticizing me. I remember getting a marching band set for my birthday one year. It had the one plastic drum and then the tambourine and such were stored inside the drum. I tried to get him to play with me and he did but was really reluctant and only did for a minute, just long enough for my mom to take pictures. I remember feeling rejected by that.

SG

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Originally posted by SprintingGal:
I tried to get him to play with me and he did but was really reluctant and only did for a minute, just long enough for my mom to take pictures. I remember feeling rejected by that.
SG

SG,

i really believe that this kind of stuff is so so damaging. you felt rejected because children are just as perceptive as adults when it comes to reading their parents...probably more. i have a real problem with people who don't take playing with their children seriously.

JM, PL, Katz- I completely resonate with the tomboy thing. I ALWAYS had a ball in my hand and wanted to throw or hit something! There was no reason to be dainty- that meant I was weak! I also had a very tomboyish mom too, so some of it came from me emulating her.

Russ and SG- I also know what you mean about parents not taking the time to interact. I have these distinct memories of trying to physically pull my dad from the couch to play with me! He would go limp and try to avoid it. He wasn't abusive or belittling, just EFFFING PASSIVE. He would just say "maybe later" which meant no, he just couldn't say it. He let my mom abuse my brother and I like crazy (and himself too), and just took it. His favorite line when I was growing up and my mother would say awful things was "just let it go in one ear and out the other." I'm sorry, but that doesn't work when your mom tells you to leave and never come back. Something sticks when those kinds of comments are made.

I digress... as for the feminine part of me, it stayed under wraps until I was about 17 or 18. I spent a very long time trying to have no sexuality at all. I was taught that women got abused and that men were abusers (despite my family dynamics). I wanted no part of either, so I tried to be nothing. And I didn't want to feel anything- I actually remember trying to see how long I could go without having to actually touch another person- I could last for days, wouldn't even hug my friends in jr. high or high school!

As for my little girl, she has been neglected for a very long time. I have tried to make her shut up, but she won't. I'm just now learning that I have to engage her in order to move forward. I still feel stupid though, almost like I'm afraid someone is going to find out that I am being nice to her and reprimand me for it. <--- Lil bit of shame there still! And I don't see her yet. It's more of a feeling and a voice for me, like someone saying, "hey, what about me?"

Thanks for listening
-CT

JM,PL,Kats & C Tran:
I too can totally relate to being a tomboy...well actually in my world, I was a boy. I learned very young being a girl meant weakness and being a daughter meant Dad can abuse you. Mind you I let nobody in on the secret, I knew my Mother would shun me for my belief, I was a boy. I tolerated girl clothes, blah. After I started college I met some strong women that helped change my perspective on gender. My T is the first person to whom I've shared my childhood secret. She calls this my "authenic self". And it feels so good to share my inner world with someone who seems to accept me. I've taken pictures to therapy too...and cried. So, when I connect with my younger "person", I let her know I love her and if she wants to be a boy, that's fine with me.
Questing