i guess the reason my sessions are so far apart is because my T comes to my little town only once per week. he's about an hour away the other days. he's just so busy i guess. i just will be glad to see him again wed, even though i'm already nervous about it...........

Hey everyone Hope all is well...I checked out the forum this afternoon at work and there was no new view...and then tonight there are at least 10...I'm glad, I love to keep up with you all...I can't wait until tomorrow!!!...Tuesday's is my favorite time of the week...I am nervous all ready...guess seeing my T does that for me...I love it. I really want to ask him if he will give me a hug...but I feel like he is being very cautious with boundries right now and may scold me...Isn't it funny how they can turn you on and make you want them whether they are bragging or fussing at you...He just turns me on period!!..My husband and I had a 30 year anniversary last week ...from the day we met...I have never cheated or wanted to cheat on him in 30 years...why is this happening now...I know I can't have my T...and it makes me want him that much more!! Have I totally lost it???...I'll let you know what happens tomorrow night...wish me luck!!...Charlotte

AJB

Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you. Hope your T time goes well.

I drive an hour one way to see my T. Which BTW was so GOOD to see her again today. But let me tell you I am exhausted beyond words. It was a very heavy session with a lot of tears. I am so glad I went today and that I have tomorrow to work some more things through before I go into my weekly waiting ritual. Sometimes I wish I could see her every other day. Oh who am I kidding, I wish I could live with her dag nab it.

I will be waiting to hear how your session goes.

JM

So how did your session go today Charlotte?
I would reply more if I could type more. Sorry I am pooped! But I do want to know how it went for you.
JM

JM:
thanks for thinking of me. so glad your wait is finally over and that you had a good session today. i still have 22 hours to wait.

Hi all,

I have been suffering with transference for the last 3 weeks. It started with my T being unable to make my regular appointment (he gave me lots of notice and alternate times). First I said yes, then I called and cancelled because I was upset. The next day I called and said I was so upset and I wanted to come in. I describe it as I lack "emotional regulation". When he called me back, he no longer had the appointment time open so I had to wait 2 weeks between sessions.

So I got angry, angry he gave away the appointment time I said I didn't want (which is crazy), angry that he doesn't let me talk about the issues that I want to talk about (but I never mention), angry that he just won't fix me. I realized I don't want therapy, I want some magical parental figure who can fix me.

When I finally get to my appt last week I can't even talk. I manage to get out that I'm angry at him but I'm afraid if I express my anger he won't let me come back. So I sit in silence for 50min. with him trying to stimulate me to talk and me being too afraid. Later I start to worry that he will tell me he can't work with me because I won't talk to him. So now I feel caught, I can't express my feelings, I can't be silent. I can't figure out a way to be in a relationship with my T without ruining it. This is basically how I feel in my relationship with my mother who is quite narcissistic.

Of course intellectually I realize that this feeling is transference. I really have no reason to doubt my Ts ability to handle my feelings I just don't know because I haven't tried him. Tomorrow is my next appointment and I'm going to try and express some of my crazy, mixed up feelings about our relationship.

Wish me luck,

Good luck Incognito,

Sometimes we all wish our T’s could wave a magic wand and make everything all better. But your determination to stick with this relationship will pay off. It WILL work much better than a magic wand, but I’m afraid not as easily.

You are going through very normal feelings and reactions (even the anger) and your T won’t kick you out. Instead not only will you learn to work through the relationship you with your mother, but others as well. The struggle between left brain (intellectualism) and right brain (emotion) is another commonality we share here. Hang in there.

Hope all went well with your appointment.

JM

HEY EVERYBODY,
GOD I NEED SOMEONE TO HELP ME!!!!...I FEEL LIKE LIKE I'M DYING....I AM DEVESTATED BEYOND DEVESTAION!!!..MY T "TERMINATED" ME YESTERDAY!!..I NEVER GOT TO SAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN HELLO...AND HE STRAIGHT OUT TOLD ME THAT HE HAD TO LET ME GO...THAT "OUR" RELATIONSHIP WAS GETTING IN THE WAY...CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT???...I ABOUT DIED...I CRIED AND CRIED FOR 50 MINUTES BEGGING HIM TO GIVE IT A FEW MORE WEEKS...I TOLD HIM THAT I KNEW IT WAS JUST TRANSFERENCE AND THAT I COULD NEVER HAVE HIM...BUT THEN I WONDERED ON THE WAY HOME...DO YOU THINK IT WAS JUST TRANSFERENCE ON MY SIDE?? BECAUSE HE HAD TOLD ME THAT IF HIS FEELINGS EVER CHANGED (HE TOLD ME THAT DAY I CONFESSED TO HIM THAT HE COULDN'T RETURN THE FEELINGS) HE WOULD HAVE TO LET ME GO...I WAS DEVESTATED...I BEGGED AND BEGGED HIM...HE TOLD ME HE WOULD GIVE ME 2 OPTIONS... I SEE A THERAPIST SOMEWHERE ELSE (FEMALE ONLY)AND HE WOULD RECCOMMEND ONE... OR I SEE A THERAPIST THAT WORKS THERE IN THE OFFICE FOR HIM...(FEMALE ONLY) AND HE WOULD KEEP UP WITH MY SUCCESS AND SUPERVISE HER WORK..AND GET THIS..HE TOLD ME THAT I SHOULD CALL HIM TODAY TO MAKE SURE I WAS OKAY AND GIVE HIM MY ANSWER...I CRIED ALL NIGHT...TOOK 2 NOT 1 BUT 2 SLEEPING PILLS AND STILL WAS AWAKE AT 4:30AM...I DROVE AROUND FOR 5 HOURS LAST NIGHT AND DRANK 3 LARGE CHOCOLATE MILKSHAKES...THEY COMFORT ME DURING STRESSING TIMES...AND I HAVE HAD 1 TODAY...I TRIED TO POST THIS TO YOU LAST NIGHT, BUT I WAS TOO UPSET...MY TEARS WERE FLOWING ON THE KEYBOARD JUST LIKE THEY ARE NOW...I CALLED HIM THIS MORNING AND HE TOOK MY CALL RIGHT THEN (THAT NEVER HAPPENS) AND I TOLD HIM I WAS SORRY THAT MY FEELINGS CAUSED THIS AND HE SAID I WAS NOT TO BLAME...WHAT AM I GONNA DO WITHOUT HIM GUYS...THAT WAS MY WHOLE PURPOSE IN LIFE RIGHT NOW ...I CHOSE TO STAY WITH A THERAPIST IN HIS OFFICE SO THAT I COULD SEE HIM EVERY WEEK...I HOPE THAT WAS THE RIGHT CHOICE!! HE TOLD ME HE WAS GLAD I DECIDED TO DO THAT, BECAUSE IT SHOWED I WANTED HELP AND YESTERDAY I HAD TOLD HIM I WOULD NEVER GO TO ANOTHER THERAPIST TO BE KICKED TO THE CURB AGAIN...HE ASKED ME IF I TRUSTED HIM TO HELP ME..I TOLD HIM YES, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I TOLD HIM MY FEELINGS. HE SAID HE WAS SO GLAD I DID, BUT HE HAD ALREADY PICKED UP ON IT, BUT I NEEDED TO TRUST HIM NOW. HE SAID HE WANTED TO KEEP ME SAFE AND HELP ME.....BUT HE HAD TO DO IT FROM THE SIDELINES...WELL MY BREAK IS OVER AND I GOTTA RUN...I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO HERE ANY SUGGESTIONS????...HE IS SUPPOSE TO CALL ME BACK TOMORROW WITH DETAILS...I AM SO STRESSED...IT WASN'T SUPPOSE TO GO LIKE THIS???? WHAT HAPPENED...I CAN'T EVEN HAVE TRANFERENCE CORRECTLY...I DO EVERYTHING WRONG...TALK TO YOU LATER...CHARLOTTE

Charlotte,

I am so so so sorry for what happened and how devastated you truly must be. But he did say it is not because you did anything wrong and he did give you some referrals to female therapists. As he understands the depth of your transference better than anybody else I think you should trust him, but I know how very difficult this is on you. I hope that you are able to get in to see another therapist very soon! Can it be this week? You need some interference on these intense emotions and someplace very safe to go. Charlotte what he is recommending is apparently for your protection and best interest. An act of love and kindness you may have never experienced before even though it is not what you want.

This is not your fault! It is not because you are "having transference wrong." It is because of his limitations as to which he is humbly and honestly admitting to -as he should.
A GOOD therapist only expressess unselfish love.

I am still here if you need to talk,

JM

Charlotte,
I totally agree with JM, this is NOT about you doing anything wrong. It took a great deal of courage and honesty to talk to your T about your feelings. From what you are saying about the options he has presented and how accessible he's being, I believe he's making this decision because he believes it's the best thing for you.

I can't emphasize enough that you are not doing anything wrong. You did what you were supposed to do which is go to therapy and be honest about yourself. I can only imagine what you're going through and how painful it is, but you'll get through. Please keep coming here and talking about how you feel, it really will help. We'll be here.

AG

Charlotte,
I agree with JM and AG, this was not your fault. It sounds to me like he is not equipped to deal with your feelings in a "safe" manner and that he MAY have taken advantage of your feelings at some point had you stayed his client, which would have been extremely damaging to you.

Do not blame yourself or abuse yourself in response to this situation. Your feelings are nothing to be ashamed of. Keep talking to us and getting it all out there.

I have to quote JM: "what he is recommending is apparently for your protection and best interest. An act of love and kindness you may have never experienced before even though it is not what you want. "

I'm so sorry Charlotte. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you. I hope you can learn how to not blame yourself with a new therapist as quickly as possible.

I am so sorry Charlotte that you feel so terrible. I can't imagine how I would feel if the same happened to me. Probably something very similar though. I believe it can be dangerous to underestimate how powerful transference can be. I think your T knows this and knows he isn't the one to help you through it. At least he is willing to help you find someone who can and will help you. The pain must be unbearable but don't let it be in charge. It's time to let left brain take over for a little while so you can get to a new T so you can have a safe place to experience this pain and not have to do it alone. I hope you find this comfort and safety and hopefully peace soon.

Hi incognito,
Sorry I didn't respond sooner to your post, but I missed it earlier.

I know how uncomfortable what you're feeling and going through is but believe it or not as confused as you feel right now and as irrational, you're doing the hard work of therapy. You're recognzing your feelings even when they feel irrational (Side note: Me to T: This is completely irrational. T to Me: Emotions often are. Rinse and repeart several hundred times.)

And of course it's hard to talk to him. There's a part of you that believes talking to him and being honest about your feelings is going to get you hurt and/or in trouble. And you believe that because it probably happened over and over when you were little. So actually you're reacting in a very rational, human way. You're trying to avoid being in pain. And that's where the hard work comes in, because moving closer in relationship is actually a healthy thing to do but you learned differently, so to move towards relationship, to talk to your therapist about how you feel is to have to walk into the middle of your fear with a significant (but primitive) part of your brain screaming at you that you're going in the wrong direction. And the amygdala isn't real sophisticated. My T has told me a quote from someone who's name completely escapes me at the moment, that the amygdala asks three basic questions when something comes into view: Do I eat it? Do I make love to it? or Do I flee from it? Not a lot of nuance. And the structure of our brain is such that the amygdala has BIG WIDE pathways going to our cortex and the cortex has weak small whispers going to the amygdala, so that when you're in danger you don't stop to argue, you get out. Of course, we then use our neocortex to come up with complicated explanations to explain why we're doing what we're doing, when really its just a basic flight reaction.

The getting angry, and turning down the appt (been there, done that) and then getting angry at the appointment being gone are ways of maintaining distance to "protect" yourself.

And you're really right about not knowing because you haven't tried him. The first time I got really angry at my T, I was really struggling to tell him how I felt because it felt so terrifying. I finally said to him, "I'm really scared if I get angry at you, then you'll leave." And he answered very gently, "there's only one way to find out, isn't there."

So I really believe you're doing the right thing and your T will be able to hear it without taking it personally. And you'll have the chance to see how you're feeling and work it through. Good luck, let us know how it goes!

AG

Thanks Guys, I have felt more concern through these posts than I have felt in a long time...but it still feels like my heart has been ripped out by a bear...I can't think, eat or sleep...I just keep calling his office to hear his voice on the machine...So much for managing my stress right? I don't know if I can talk to someone else about him...if I do I may just be hurt again...I wanna just go off somewhere and sleep for a few hundred years. Thanks so much for taking me in and making me feel like I had some people that actually care about me...and I know you all do...but I don't deserve any friends. This is what I get for falling for some old married man when I have one at home that I know loves me and takes care of me, even though he is having a tough time right now..I'll try to talk again soon, I just need some time to myself to deci=de if I really want another T or not...I'll be around, Charlotte

Charlotte,
Don't make me get out the HTML slapper and go upside your head! You are being WAY TOO HARD on yourself. (Trust me, I know, I have a doctorate in beating myself up.) This isn't a case of being unfaithful to your husband or you doing anything wrong. These feelings are an indication that you are looking for something you don't have or you wouldn't still be looking for it. YOU DO NOT DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED FOR THESE FEELINGS. And despite how you feel, you are a worthwhile unique precious person who deserves all the friends, love, comfort and connection you can get; that is your birthright. Not getting those things as a child is the failure of your caretakers, not of you. You can feel like you are worthless all you want, it still isn't true.

And I understand how hard it must be to contemplate going to another T feeling the way you do right now and not wanting to risk more pain like this, but I really think that working with another T would give you a chance to look at this and work it through.

Take care,
AG

Hi Charlotte,

AG is right; “These feelings are an indication that you are looking for something you don't have or you wouldn't still be looking for it. You do not deserve to be punished for these feelings.” I’m going to say it straight up, your T is not punishing you, YOU are and you don’t deserve that. NOT dealing with your feelings is what will hurt you, Charlotte. It will cause more problems for you and possibly your marriage if you don’t. I know it must feel as if you’ve been punished and scolded in the worst way, but you’ve done NOTHING wrong. I hope that you will decide to see another T and straight up ask her if she is willing to stay with you because you feel you can’t risk that kind of hurt again. I kind of think that whomever your T has in mind to refer you to is someone who can commit to you the way you need her to. But you can always ask to make sure and I don’t blame you for that.

I worry for you because these feelings are too much for you to bear alone. I am glad that you are posting here and finding this kind of support, but I really hope that you will try to trust another therapist. The last thing you need is to have stayed with a T who may have hurt you more in the long run and perhaps violated the sanctity of the therapeutic relationship by giving in to your desires for him. As strongly as we feel for our T’s sexually, maternally, friendship or otherwise, it is NEVER ok for them to give in to that. It is not wrong for us to have these inclinations but it is NEVER ok for them to violate us by smudging the boundaries. No matter how much we wish they didn’t exist, boundaries are for our protection.

The fact that you had these feelings for a married man and contemplated the desires and fantasies that you had is no indication that you are a bad person, these very desires point to something much deeper than that, much more innocent than they appear and a good therapist will help you work through the underlying issues of transference.

I look forward to hearing from you “frequently” even if it is just to drop a quick line or two. Please let us know how you are doing.

(((safe hugs)))

JM

JM and AG,

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

I had my session last night and it went better. I was able to talk to him. We didn't discuss why I was angry we were able to talk about my anger in general, why I have trouble expressing it? what it would mean if I did? what it would mean if he couldn't deal with it?
As in why I would think he's and asshole and a bad T and go find a better one and why I would make it my fault and proof there was something wrong with me.

Neither of us used the word transference but he pointed out that I approach the relationship with him from the perspective of a child to a parent. You don't get to choose your parent, and you have to make it work at all costs, and if it doesn't it is your fault.

So a good session and my anxiety has dropped some but I imagine I have many more conversations about feelings in my future.

I look forward to the ongoing discussions,

Good for you Incognito! It sounds like you and your T were able to lay some really good groundwork for future discussions.

Incognito,
That really sounds awesome that you were able to do that, it really does take a lot of courage. And your T sounds like he has a good handle on what's going on with you which means you're safe.

For the record, neither my T or I have EVER used the word transference. The feelings are real and legitimate, they're just also deeply rooted. The work of therapy for me has increasingly become about discussing the relationship with and my feelings about my T then tracing them to their roots. Therapy is a miniature of our whole life, a laboratory where we can slow down and have the person involved help us to examine our reactions to them so we can see what we're doing, figure out why we're doing it and decide to change what we want to make our life better. Its really very powerful when you can establish enough trust to discuss these feelings. You should be really proud of yourself.

AG

quote:

I will be waiting to hear how your session goes.

JM:
well it was the best ever. i actually think i might be getting it a little. but (i know you get tired of hearing this from me all the time--lol)---it's a good thing,cause the next available time for me is EIGHT WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!!
well, you know i'll never go that long but anyway....right now i'm still thinking positively from yesterday

AJB,

I know that sometimes you just want to bask in the moment of the positive feelings while you still have them. Go ahead, enjoy. And in those positive feelings notice how secure you feel. Knowing that even though your appointment is another 8 weeks away, you have the freedom to call before that. It sounds great, and I do not get tired of hearing anything from you. To be able to say that you are getting it “out loud” is a big deal. I do the same thing. We’re still in the same boat; I’ve just been navigating the waters a little longer. Like River always says, “baby steps” but every little step is significant and one step further than where you were before. I am really glad that you had a good session.

I hope the positive feelings last a very long time, but whether they do or whether they begin to dissipate you always have us to talk to here.

I had a wonderful two sessions this week. Tuesday was very intense and very emotional, but we were able to pick up again on Wednesday and that helped a lot! I left feeling very secure both days, a depth of security I had not known before. So I've been basking in that eventhough I still have some very strong emotions tugging at me, I am holding on to the positive feelings as long as I can. They are beginning to feel more permanent, but you know I still have to learn to trust that they are.

Talk to you later!
JM

Hello my friends,
I just wanted you too know that after many hours of crying and stressing and crying and eating chocolate milkshakes...( have been driving from one Mcdonalds to the next buying them) i"m up 8 pounds and tottaly depressed and I just can't seem to figure this mess out, what happened???...I was depressed from a car wreck and medical problems..which lead to marital problems, which led to therapy..which led to tranference, which led to stress and depression again...what the devil is wrong here?????
well, I realized that I do need to see a new T. I can't deal with the loss by myself...I've tried and I am going under...(not mention looking like a whale from these shakes!!) I called "him" and he made me an appt for Tuesday to see a female T. in his office...not sure if I can stand seeing him or not...but I want to see him there..Oh God how I hope to see him there!! does that make sense??? But thanks for helping me to understand that it isn't all my fault...but how does he expect me to just forget how I feel about him? Just hope I can deal with it...I have called him about 4 times on is personal voice mail...but he hasn't called me back...do you think he will? It's probably best that he doesn't... but I call sometimes just to hear him on the other end...I think I have totally lost my mind...I'll talk to you soon..Charlotte

quote:

but how does he expect me to just forget how I feel about him? Just hope I can deal with it...I have called him about 4 times on is personal voice mail...but he hasn't called me back...do you think he will? It's probably best that he doesn't... but I call sometimes just to hear him on the other end...I think I have totally lost my mind...

Hi Charlotte,

Welcome back.
I don’t think he expects you to forget about him. He knows this will be difficult for you. I understand the “calling his voice mail” several times too. And he may not call back but he is taking care of you the best way that he can.

I am glad that you get to see your new T on Tuesday. I really hope that goes as well as I think it will for you. You deserve to work through this. It sure sounds like you’ve had a wave of rough times with your car accident and everything that sprang from that. That is a lot for anyone to take. So it is good to hear from you. You’ve been on my mind.

Please hang tight. We are always right here for you. And you better let us know right away how Tuesday goes for you and your new T or I’ll hunt you down! (Just kidding)

JM

Hi Charlotte,
I'm sorry this is so painful and confusing but I'm glad you're here talking about it. I think going to the T is a good idea, I think you need someone to help you get through this. And I'd be calling the voicemail too if I were you. And as hard as it is to not have him as your T anymore, try and take comfort in the fact that I think he's trying to do the right thing for you. Let us know how it goes (or I'll have JM hunt you down. )

AG

Thanks for the support JM and AG...Your the best!! ...Hope some day I will be able to look back on this and tell some other "Transference Rookie" that it's all gonna be okay!..Charlotte

You will Charlotte, you will.

This is tough stuff to handle Charlotte, you're doing great. And yes, someday, you will be able to tell some transference rookie that your appointments were six months apart and you had to walk uphill both ways to get to them.

AG

That's MY story AG! Get your own! LOL-just kidding.

You know what I'm impressed with Charlotte? you ARE already rising above this expereince. As horrible as this has been for you, you are determined to walk on. It speaks to your strength that you may not even be aware that you have. AG has this saying, "The only way out of it is through it." You are charging through it. I wish you could see yourself for what everybody else sees.

JM

JM,
I'm sorry, I thought you had to swim not one but TWO raging crocodile infested rivers. I hate when I can't keep that straight!

AG

ROFL!!!

It FEELS that way sometimes doesn't it??

YOU TWO GOOFS ARE JUST WHAT THE "DOCTOR" ORDERED (NO PUN INTENDED)FOR A SMILE FROM SOMEONE WHOSE HEART IS BROKEN...KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!! ...CHARLOTTE

Charlotte, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I hope that things work out for you with your new therapist.

SM2003,
Thanks for the thought! I just don't see why I have to go to another T. Does he think I will just say..."Okay moving on now".."I'm over him...Next!!" This is something I have never been through before...and I feel like my world is crashed in and I can't breath...but I have decided that I will see the new T and I am going to Exercise, Tan, Tone and dress to kill!!!...I will show him...when we pass in the office..."AND WE WILL PASS IN THE OFFICE"!!!! if he did have any thoughts of transference with me....He will have a hard time dealing with this too!! ....I just feel mean today...I would probably melt in my shoes if he said..You look nice today!!...But I need to do this for my self and as part of my healing...who knows...maybe my husband might notice me again!!!Charlotte

Charlotte, you will be fine! I have to ask though why you decided to stay in his vicinity even though you will be seeing another T in his office?

I also don't understand why some therapists can't deal with situations of transference. I mean aren't they taught techniques on how to deal with the issue should it arise? My T did not terminate me as a patient - I decided that I needed to talk to someone else. I have to also wonder how many other women patients my t has had feelings for in the past. Things that make you go hmm....

There are a lot of therapists out there who can't deal with transference because they haven't been trained in it, don't have enough experience to deal with it or let the countertransference get the best of them. That's why as a patient you have to be paying attention to what's going on. It's a difficult task to stay emotionally available for a client while maintaining strong boundaries and the necessary detachment to help them. Its much like walking a high wire. In too close, the patient is hurt, out too far, the patient is hurt or at least not helped.

Transference is a very powerful tool for healing in the hands of a therapist who can handle it but can be very painful and possibly re-traumatizing with a therapist who doesn't handle it well.

That's one of the reasons that a T will sometimes refer a case of transference such as happened to you Charlotte. If there is some reason they believe they won't handle it correctly, because of lack of experience or countertransference, then the responsible thing to do is find another T for their client so that they don't hurt them. It's the equilavent of having an issue come up, such as a drug addiction for instance, in which your T has NO experience. They might want to refer you to someone else because they would take better care of you.

In either case, the focus of the therpist should be on the client's well being. But they're human and I imagine being the focus of someone's transference can be pretty flattering, especially if you start to believe that its because of qualtities you possess rather than the result of their being in therapy and acting out their history.

One thing I really appreciated about my T when I told him how I felt was him joking around about all his "good looks and charm" in order to communicate that he really didn't think it was about him.

And SimplyMe I have to ask, if your T didn't terminate you as a patient, what reason did he give for telling you he was attracted to you? If he's going to continue as your therapist it seems he should have kept those feelings to himself. Did he explain why he told you?

AG

He told me because I asked and it has been fairly obvious for awhile that he had feelings for me and vice versa. I have to give him credit for not lying to me about his feelings. He could have continued to be my therapist, but what good would that have done me? He never told me that he was going to terminate me as a patient because I never gave him a chance to. I told him assertively that I was going to go to another therapist.

I wonder if the therapists that are psychologists have experience to deal with transference or countertransference. I will say that I don't believe that all attractions are due to either transference or countertransference.

Well Simplyme,
The main reason I chose to stay in his office was to be near him and see him. This is no way a ship in the night that will keep going to be remembered no more...you probably didn't know that I had been seeing him since April of this year, so there is definitly a bond between us. AG, The 2nd reason is that he wants to"Supervise" my progress from the sideline is the phrase he used. I will see the other T, but he will be keeping up with the sessions and making the suggestions for her to give me. Is that the plan of a man that isn't concerned? He offered to refer me to someone else a few blocks down the street, but the thought of not ever seeing him again was more than I could bear!
The 3rd reason is he is one of the best around here! He has several Dr. Degrees, and he stays booked all the time. My neurologist is good friends with him otherwise I would have been on a 3 month waiting list to see him, yes he is quite aware of the transference deal, and he even told me when I expressed my feelings for him that he had dealt with transference before...That's when I told him "I guess so because you are just to ---- sexy for your own good!"...not that he really would ever be on the cover of a magazine for a Mr. Ameica contest, but his gentle voice and abilities make him appear to be for me...anyway (Is it hot in here?) He told me would not terminate me as a patient unless his feelings towrds me changed or became a threat in keeping me safe, (and he told me he did not feel the same about me then) or I was not making progress in my therapy because of the feelings I had for him. I really don't believe 2 weeks later was enough time to see if I was making progress or not do you??
I know he was flattered when I told him 50 times how great of a Dr. he was and that he was the only one that could help me, (when I was begging him not to stop seeing him)...I had already told him that when I revealed my feelings earlier...I know he is doing the right thing for me and him...I really did understand the whole situation, but being "Dumped" I guess you could say after your husband has sorta "Dumped you 5 months earlier....And then he is the only one you have began to trust since then...it was devastating...I literally felt like just tearing his office all to pieces...but that would have only got me arrested probably ...I was terribly hurt beyond hurt..but I had to buckle up and say "Charlotte, you are a beautiful woman!, no wonder he couldn't help himself!" and try to move beyond what has happened, (even if that's not the reason) but it will in no way be easy or something I really want to do... but I do love my husband of 30 years, and I feel like he is in transference with something over me...I was in a wreck, I have extensive medical problems, and we both had to have surgery...yes that will make you drift apart and have a few problems...not to mention I believe he is going thru the midlife crisis...exercising, coloring his hair, etc...I guess the timing was right for both of us...but I pray everyday that we can get it together and have another 30...and the final reason I wanted to stay is so that he could see that I did want to get better and get myself together...get in shape and lose this milkshake belly he caused..(LOL)...Talk to you soon my friends...can you tell I have nervous energy?? I have rambled on too long...but I have enjoyed getting some of this out of my head...sorta writers therapy I guess...Thanks for listening!!
Charlotte

quote:

but I have decided that I will see the new T and I am going to Exercise, Tan, Tone and dress to kill!!!...I will show him...when we pass in the office..."AND WE WILL PASS IN THE OFFICE"!!!! if he did have any thoughts of transference with me....He will have a hard time dealing with this too!! ....I just feel mean today...

LOL! I can certainly understand why you feel this way. My experience with transference is that it is one of the strongest and most intense feelings/experiences one can ever imagine x 10. I can only imagine that having to terminate a realionship w/ T because of it would be the most heartbreaking experience ever x 100. So what I'm saying is that you do need to work through these feelings that your termination has triggered, and by the sound of your post Charlotte, I beleive you will and you will be just fine. And I hope that what you hear yourself saying is that you deserve better than how you initially perceived you were being treated! You go girl!

quote:

...But I need to do this for my self and as part of my healing...who knows...maybe my husband might notice me again!!!Charlotte

This is the truth behind the exterior, more painful and prominant feelings you describe above. It IS for you Charlotte. This is all for you! You'll work through all of these feelings and you will come off victorious. And don't you believe that is what your T really wants for you? I think so too.
JM

quote:

I have rambled on too long...but I have enjoyed getting some of this out of my head...sorta writers therapy I guess...Thanks for listening!!

I've described this forum like a talking journal. I find it very therapeutic sometimes. It is nice that your T will be supervising your progress under your new T. I think that speaks volumes to his care and concern for you Charlotte.

One more word about transference and it is strictly my opinion: But it seems that the intensity of emotions that come into play in its highly aroused state for a client experiencing it, can be very distracting to the real work at hand. If a client only focuses on the surface attraction to her T then she is missing the opportunity to work through the issues beneath the surface that trigger the transference in the first place. That s why it is necessary that a good T direct and guide a client to do that because we may be too inebriated w/ it ourselves, we are often filled with the compulsion to want to act out any given fantasies and feelings sparked by transference. (ie; rolling on the couch with them, meeting them after hours, so on and so forth whatever it may be). When a client begins to behave so erratically that the T can no longer control a situation in the clients best interest, or if his/her own issues or counter-transference get IN THE WAY then it is very responsible for them to terminate and refer to another T who may be better equipped to deal with the particular issues the client needs to work through. If a T fails to do that the transference no longer is a useful tool in therapy but a barrier to it, and becomes a tool to use in their own personal agenda.

“To whom much is given much is expected.”

Just my thoughts.

quote:

I wonder if the therapists that are psychologists have experience to deal with transference or countertransference.

Hi SimplyMe,

My T is not a “psychologist”, but a LMFT who also provides individual therapy and is adequately trained and experienced in dealing with transference. What separates a T from handling it properly whether experienced w/ it or not is the humility to accept whatever their own limitations might be and how their own issues come into play, and their willingness to seek supervision.

JM

quote:

My T did not terminate me as a patient - I decided that I needed to talk to someone else. I have to also wonder how many other women patients my t has had feelings for in the past. Things that make you go hmm....

SimplyMe,
I really applaud you for that. It would have been so easy to just throw caution to the wind. It is interesting that you wonder how many other women patients he may have had "feelings for." If that is true then it demonstrates that he has not worked out his own issues.

That brings me to comment on something else you said about "giving him credit for not lying to you." I suppose we should give credit where credit is due, but don't we all expect that our T's would not lie to us? The idea evades me as to why he allowed himself to experience these feelings for you 'over time' instead of taking the proactive approach himself as the professional. Let me say again that you at least handled that really well. Not to belittle the man in any way, mind you. I know very little and almost nothing about the whole of the circumstances and I am in no position to judge another, but I am commenting on only what you've slightly revealed.

JM

How do you know if your attraction to your t is transference or not?

Of course, no one wants their t's to lie to them. He could have told me that "no, he didn't have feelings for me" when in reality he does, so that I would continue to see him. So in effect he would have had a motive to not tell me the truth. Does that make sense?

As far as wondering if he has had feelings for other patients, I just am curious as to the answer to that. I will admit that ever since he told me how he felt about me my feelings for him are not that strong anymore. There are a lot of fish in the sea and I still have a lot of fishing to do!

quote:

How do you know if your attraction to your t is transference or not?

That’s a good question SimplyMe.

The fact that it did occur in a therapeutic setting would give a strong indication as to that it is transference. But on the other hand transference is not just something we experience in professional relationships therefore its role in many of our relationships cannot be overlooked.

For instance, we may experience transference for friends, spouses, teachers, boss, and other authority figures, just to name a few. The role of transference is that it identifies us or connects us to someone in our present through our past experiences. If someone fits the pattern we have come to know from our past experiences then they may take on transference like role in our lives which is completely normal and even scientific. (Limbic Attractors)

In therapy however we cannot know enough personal information about our T’s to provide these connections and we have to rely on projected information that we gain. Transference based on very little information is strictly transference, but the emotions are very real and the relationships DOES in fact become very real too, but within its boundaries. Once it is taken outside those boundaries it becomes prone to all the added conflicts of every other relationship we’ve ever experienced, and possibly worse.

Hmm..Sorry for the long winded reply to a seemingly simple question, but it IS a really good question.

One suggestion is that you might enjoy reading the book “A General Theory of Love” by Thomas Lewis. There just happens to be a post on that on forum too.

JM

quote:

He could have told me that "no, he didn't have feelings for me" when in reality he does, so that I would continue to see him. So in effect he would have had a motive to not tell me the truth. Does that make sense?

No one's debating that. But he did refrain from telling you until you brought up the "proverbial elephant in the room." But I don't know how long he had these feelings for you and if he was seeking consultation from a supervisor for them. One would certainly hope so.

Hi SimplyMe,
Now I get it, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you asked him or that you were the one who decided to terminate. Both very courageous acts by the way. And I agree with you, that he shouldn't have lied to you. As JM mentioned, if there's one thing you should be able to count on your T for its not to lie to you.

AG

Charlotte,
Please do not worry that you're talking too much, that's what we're here for. And I know you feel confused and overwhelmed but you're dealing with this great. It's really difficult to have your T send you to someone else, but I agree with everyone else. I really believe that he cares for you and what's best for you so he's sending you to someone that he thinks will be more effective in helping you but he's also doing it without dissappearing from your life.

And you're impulse to take care of yourself, instead of punishing yourself for something that was not your fault, is a good one. Go with it, you deserve to be taken good care of.

And for what it's worth, my husband and I had been married for 21 years when we started marital counseling with my T and I thought we had a snowball's chance in a pizza oven to actually pulling through. I thought it was over and was just giving it one last shot so I could leave with a clear conscience. And things are so much better now that I'm really glad that I was able to stick it out. So there's hope.

AG

Hey everyone,
I promised to let you know what happened in session with my new Ms. T. Plus I didnt want JM tracking me down with the beagles!! LOL

Well, I made it a point to ge there 10 minutes early so I could catch a glimpse of Mr. T, which BTW I did, and he seemed to be as anxious to see me as I him...or so I fantasise that he did...but I was really nervous and trying to look calm too. My new Ms. T seems very nice and very open about things, she knew I really did not care to see her and told me she knew that. She knew the feelings I had for him and told me she undestood that too...I told her exactly how I had felt about the whole thing and that I was hurt, mad, upset, and devestated at the whole thing...as we talked I told her that one thing that I really needed was to be able to see him for a few minutes once every once in a while to discuss my progress with him, She said she would ask if I could show positive progress in my work for my feelings for him...I told her I was upset that I had called him twice and he hadn't called me back...she told me he told her I had called and to explain that it was best right now that he didn't.

I told her I was afraid to open up to her because when i opened up to him he kicked me to the curb..I told her I had a terrible time last week and felt like I could have ended it all for the first 24 hours......and it wasn't fair I had to go thru all that and he didn't have to suffer at all..because he didn't care...That's when she told me she had something that I really needed to hear. She said that "he" had come to her and talked to her for "several hours" about my case and the things we had worked on...and he was very concerned for me and was very strong in the fact that I get thru this and supervise the work, because he cared very much that I respected his work and trusted him enough to have the feelings that I had for him in the first place, and that he did not want me to have to go thru this alone. He also told her that he was amazed at the strength I had and the initative I took to tell him how I really felt, because most women do not, the therapist has to point it out of them. This made me feel a little better.

Anyway we talked mainly about my feelings about the whole thing and she was very kind and told me she didn't blame me for the things I felt and that she would probably felt the same. I told her that even though I had been thru heck and half of Georgia these last few months that I am not a quitter, and I would survive...now I just gotta keep telling myself that!! She told me my homework for next week is to write "HIM" a letter. A letter telling hime everything I wanted to say to him, good and bad...express my feelings that I never got to tell him, and to let him know how he had helped me too...I don't have to give it to him or her but I can if I want to...I been thinking about wahat to say...but really don't know where to begin...I'll thimk about that tomorrow!!..but that's pretty much how it went...and I cried alot...and had 2 milkshakes on the way home...it felt good...so I skipped supper tonight...talk to you soon...and thanks for the responses keep themem coming...I need it and love the support!!...Charlotte

Charlotte it sounds like your new T is going to work out good for you. And how wonderful that she could validate that "MR T" really does care for you for spending hours talking to her about your case and how they could best help YOU through this. I am excited for you!

Thanks for sharing.

Sorry about the beagles, but they ARE excellent trackers. LOL

JM

Transference: My own revelations and my need to understand it.

I hope you guys don’t mind some more of my personal musings and my own interpretation of what I’ve learned so far. I hope that others find it interesting and maybe even helpful.

Our relationship with our T is very intimate. Possibly the most intimate relationship we will ever know in its truest, purest form, allowing us to experience complete, unselfish attention and care from another human being. In order to solidify this acutely unique experience, it has to remain undefiled by someone else’s needs which would exclude entering into the often desired dual relationship (friendship, romantic or otherwise) and the even more detrimental breech of sexual consummation, which in a therapeutic relationship is as aberrant as incest.

So why do we get these feelings?
I initially experienced erotic transference for my T in the beginning of my therapy, but then it gradually shifted into a very strong maternal connection wherein my attachment to my T became very intense. In this attachment I found a security I had never known before and I began to flourish and make great strides in my healing process. Then about a week ago something triggered the homo-erotic transference again which made me wonder; is “transference just transference” that manifests itself in different degrees (i.e.; erotic/homo-erotic, maternal/ paternal etc.) or does how it manifests itself tell us something more peculiar?

My T explained it to me this way; “Sexual transference represents our desiring “equitableness” in our intimacy. To be sexual with someone is a complete surrendering of “both souls,” to be as important, special, and desirable to our partner as they are to us.”

Wherein, our T’s surrender virtually nothing about themselves and their personal lives to us. By virtue of its design our therapeutic relationship offers a safe environment for us to explore our own feelings and needs w/o it being skewed by someone else’s. Therefore indentifying “what triggers” an intense transference (sexual, maternal, or otherwise) for our T we can better understand something about ourselves, something about our past that is begging to be heard.

Most recently for me it was this;
I never feel like I fit in. Even though I have many friends I never feel important to them no matter how much the evidence contradicts that belief. REASON: Very complex, but simply stated; my whole life I felt excluded with no sense of belonging, especially as a child and that is a very painful recollection for me. So in come the fantasies (we ) create to feel better about ourselves. We all do it; we’ve always done it in one way or another. My sexual desire for my T represents my desire of sharing and receiving complete equality with absolutely no exclusion from her life (and body.) The desire to belong to her and that I can be made to feel good and make someone else feel good in return, to feel needed and desired by someone so important, is a very strong, intoxicating urge for me. On the other hand, the feeling of being excluded from her personal life can feel like stone cold rejection. Now the cycle begins and I therefore, by sub-consciously creating sexual intimacy with her, provide a sense of belonging and inclusion to help deal with the “feelings” of rejection. Out of habit, I repeat this pattern by fantasizing about something I can’t have with my T, but have always desired in life...complete acceptance for who I am and that what I have to offer is valuable to someone else. Truly, erotic transference is much more innocent than the “fantasized” sexual encounter would seem to entail.


It is not wrong to have erotic or homo-erotic transference for a T, but it is essential to know that it needs to become a tool and not an obsession. Getting “stuck” in this transference is obsessing on something that is never going to happen. It can’t happen. Obsession is an addiction just as much as alcohol and drugs, but addictions hinder progress. Ignoring the triggers of our painful past by getting caught up in the feel good, pleasure seeking; stimulating fantasies w/o addressing the cause is repeating the same hurtful patterns that have failed us in the past. Remaining in the erotic/homo-erotic stages of transference may also be a means to avoid dealing with the painful issues hidden beneath the surface of transference. To allow ourselves to work though the varying stages of transference; the magnetic pull of erotic transference, through a more maternal/paternal transference, leads us to an ultimate “secure attachment base.” Secure attachment is the doorway to the other side of transference and what I hope to find there is self love.

It is interesting that I made a statement to my T about a month ago that was something to this effect; “I like being here. I feel really good here.”

She replied, “Good! Because HERE it is all about YOU! You like being heard and that says you like something about yourself and that you’re becoming comfortable talking about your needs.”

–hmm…I wonder what she meant by that?

JM,
What you have written really resonates with me and my experience with transference. When the feelings are intense and I work them through they invariably link to my past. And all of the reasons you discussed for the intense longings ring really true to me. I know I move in and out of the erotic feelings. Most often my feelings are paternal. I think I have longed more to be my Ts daughter or grandaughter then I have longed to be a lover, but all have in common that I want to "belong" to him in some way.

Usually when the erotic feelings are strong, its a sign something difficult is coming. I think I use the fantasy to try and avoid the pain underneath. So I absolutely think you hit the nail on the head when you said the transference needs to become a tool. I can truly say that most of the progress I have made with my current T has taken place by working through transference feelings not concentrating on acting them out.

I know I have really been struggling in the erotic deppartment myself lately, and when I started looking at it, it turned out to be due to some memories getting triggered that contain some very powerful feelings I need to acknowledge and process. At least I know what I'm talking about my next session.

Thanks for taking the time to share this. Transference can be so gonzo confusing as you experience it, and I think this is a very insightful explanation that will help anyone trying to deal with transference. You are a very wise woman and I appreciate your ability to keep pushing through to get at what's underneath and then being brave enough to talk about it here. Thank you.

AG

Hi JM,

I think your discussion of transference and your reasons are really powerful for you and for others. It resonates with me a lot particularly in the feeling that there was no sense of belonging in your childhood. I haven't experienced erotic transference (yet?) but I definitely react to my T as a parental figure. Possibly because I have only been in therapy a short while (I never guessed I would call 7 months short) and I am only recently starting to trust T.

thank you for sharing,

Thanks gals. I wasn’t sure how it would be accepted. I was worried that it might be too self exposing for others to relate to or that it was in such essay form that I came off trying to teach everyone. I really just wanted to share because I find my own understanding in relating my experience.

I also think that we don’t have to experience erotic transference to get stuck in transference. But the mature subject matter certainly makes for an easy distraction. Oi vey!

As for the sense of belonging I agree that it does play into transference in every sense of the word. Maybe I’m stretching it, but I love to analyze things to death. So I was thinking when we were little we had no control over what happened to us. But in our search for belonging I think there is also a natural need for us to find a sense of equality, so as adults we want to play out the relationship on our terms and our fantasies, no matter what they are, provide opportunity for us to do this. On one hand, I want to be my T’s friend. On the other hand, there is a primal need to be taken care of, so at other times I want her to be my mother. That is one reason why I think that transference can sometimes be so confusing.

There is a reason that TRANSFERENCE is the most read and replied topic on the forum. To anyone out there…You ARE normal!

So, I'm not at a point where I have erotic transference with Tfella, though he's more than a wee bit paternal-feeling to me at the moment, as you might expect. But what really made me go off on my own thoughts in this post was when you said:

quote:

So in come the fantasies (we ) create to feel better about ourselves.

I wondered what it was that I fantasize about this way, and I realize that it's about protecting people. I always end up running through how to defend a particular place (with the particular people in it that live/work there) given various horrible happenings (and yes - you name it, I've made up a little fantasy about how to deal with it, any place that I live/work. Yes. Really. All of them. That too? Yup, that too. :P ). They're like little action-heroine vignettes, some of the time: where I successfully protect people, and myself, generally. Although I flatter myself that they're slightly more realistic and involve substantially more fire escape use than your average action movie.

So when you said:

quote:

Out of habit, I repeat this pattern by fantasizing about something I can’t have with my T, but have always desired in life...

I thought..."I wanted to be safe? To be able to protect people? Oh, yeah, I did. And I never got to be. Huh! That would explain all the... Huh!"

S'fascinating how the stuff that can be used to asplain t-relationships also accounts for so much of the rest of life interactions. I guess that's the point, right?

<----*takes baby steps* Thanks for sharing!

Right on Wynne!
Those fantasies are initially created in our childhood as a means to cope with the harsh circumstances of reality.

That is also hyper-vigilance when we are constantly prepared and preparing oursleves to survive danger and ever alert to it even when it is not a current threat. I find that very exhausting.

Hey everyone, I hope all is well with everyone..not much going on in this neck of the forum lately. Keep me in your mind tomorrow..I have my second session with Ms. T...I had to write a leter for homework to my old T...It really brings me into a tizzy when I start to express myself...but I will let you all know what happens tomorrow... AG where are you hiding?? Talk to you soon...Charlotte

Hi Charlotte,
I'm sorry! I totally zoned and missed your post on your first meeting with your new T. I work for a software company and we're trying to get out a Beta release and releases are when my work load gets the heaviest, I'm working OT right now and I'm afraid it has a tendency to cut into my surfing time. I'm trying to check in but I'm buzzing through. I'm sorry I didn't notice it sooner.

It sounds like you have two incredible Ts. I can only imagine how painful it was to feel like you spoke up about your feelings and were punished for it, but I hope that you were able to take in what your new T said. Someone discussing your case for hours, and expressing the kind of admiration he did for the work that you are doing is NOT someone who doesn't care. As painful as it was, he did something very loving in referring you to another T, he made sure that the highest priority was your healing. I really hope that will be a comfort to you as you go through this.

And I love that your new T could hear that you are unhappy having to go to her and totally get it and not make it about her. I know this had been painful and scary and difficult (well, we are talking about therapy, aren't we? ) but it really sounds like you are in good hands and have not one, but two, caring therapists on your side.

Keep talking about it here and I promise I'll try not to miss any more posts. But if I'm MIA over the next couple weeks, please know its my schedule and not a lack of care on my part. I think I'm understanding Robin/Scott/Samy/Antoni et al a little better right now.

AG

Hey everyone. I'm going to brain dump on my own transference situation (Dr.X, my medical doctor, not my T!) that is in the first thread for those who don't remember.

A few weeks ago I dreamt that we kissed. He ushered me into the house, past his wife, and into the back bedroom. He said, "My wife can't know about this. We will have to do this when she is not home or we will have to get one of those three hour hotel rooms." I said, "No, I don't do that." We went into another smaller, darkened room, he was in shadows. He picked me up, I could see his muscular arms as he picked me up and I thought, "I can't believe he is strong enough to pick me up!" along with, "I can't believe I am in this sexy man's arms!" He started to kiss me while holding me up, close mouthed, sort of politely at first and then right towards the end with tongue. I was thinking as he was kissing me that it wasn't doing anything for me and I felt sad about it, that I wasn't turned on. He put me down and walked away. I followed. We were in the driveway now, him sitting, and I was in the grass playing with his kids as he watched me, smiling.

This dream made me so happy. I woke up so happy that contact, physical contact had finally been made, even if it wasn't real. It made things feel in the past, like I could move on. But then a couple of weeks later I dreamt he called me and said I had cancer again and it had spread to my spine. This brought back a lot of feelings from when he first told me I had cancer and I have been basically depressed for the last four days since the dream.

Then today I was with a good friend who is aware of this situation and she asked me if I wanted to see where he lived. We were going for a walk nearby and she knows that I know where he lives, though I had never been there. I said yes so we drove by his house. And there it was. The life that I can never have with him. This made me sad. How could I have found someone who has tried to will my good, tried to protect me, expressed explicit caring for me, that I can never have? And why can't I just take that knowledge and feeling instead of driving it into the ground by obsessing about him? Am I trying to punish myself? Do I believe I do not deserve this without the inner emotional drama?

I could terminate him very easily but I fear it would do no good, that I would still obsess about him with no hope of seeing him ever again. And why would I want to walk away from someone who was so kind to me when I needed it the most, when everyone else had left me for dead emotionally? He is, of course, also my security blanket!

JM, you had a wonderful post on page 4, where you quoted your T as saying that the sexual transference is desiring equality. I love it. There has been that factor, but sometimes it is just that I want him to take me in, start me over so he can raise me and I can have a much better life because of it! I wish that I came from him. I can't express my emotions to people very well usually (it is what I grew up with) but I did to him and he didn't punish me for it. He validated me.

Gah, I'm stuck and I don't know what to do to get out!

Hi SprintingGal,
It is good to hear from you again, though I wish you were feeling better.
I know it can seem confusing sometimes to switch from a romantic or sexual fantasy, to wanting to be raised and nurtured by him. (Something we’ve sort of played out in the relationships we’ve chosen throughout our lives in one way or another.) I’m guessing that you’re probably feeling stuck because Dr. X does not have the ability to work you though your feelings the way that a T does. So I hope that you can learn to express your feelings to your T and she will make you feel as good as Dr. X and you will find acceptance and complete attunement with her too.

I apologize if my remarks seem blunt or striking the air, but I can’t really tell. I am hinging between feeling some very intense emotions and a little dissociation so I am kind of out of it lately. I am trying to keep up with everything going on here, but I am having a real hard time with that too, so I tend to be more quiet when I lose my ability for expression. But I wanted to make some reply.
JM

Hi Sprinting Gal,
I'm sorry its so difficult. This is a hard enough place to be in when you can work it through with the person which I realize isn't true in your case.

But if I may be so presumptious, I had an interesting take on your dream and I wanted to share my interpretation with you. BUT, and this is a big but, I'm basing this on what little I know of you from previous posts and my own experience so I could be completely off base. So if it rings true great, but if not, feel free to toss it out.

quote:

He started to kiss me while holding me up, close mouthed, sort of politely at first and then right towards the end with tongue. I was thinking as he was kissing me that it wasn't doing anything for me and I felt sad about it, that I wasn't turned on. He put me down and walked away. I followed. We were in the driveway now, him sitting, and I was in the grass playing with his kids as he watched me, smiling.

I think that when we have attachment issues, and we find someone who seems to hold out the promise of providing what is missing (because those needs never go away) it often manifests as a romantic/erotic interest because as adults those are our closest, most supportive relationships. The closet we can come to the boundaryless existence we once had with our mothers. But the truth is, that we're looking for what we didn't have then when we were children. I thought it was really interesting that you're dream started along the lines of a sexual relationship but even in the middle of that you were amazed he could pick you up. But if you were a little girl, he would be able to do that easily. You recognized that the relationship felt wrong because of his saying he had to keep it from his wife and you're saying you wouldn't go to a hotel. When you did kiss him, your reaction was that it really wasn't what you were looking for. But at the end you were with his children, playing with them and he was smiling at you. I think this speaks very strongly of you looking for the security and strong arms of a father who would be there for you, of you wanting to be part of his family.

I mentioned it in another post, but my T's granddaughter has a blog posted by her mother and had posted some stuff about holiday celebrations. I talked to my T about it. It was really painful in some ways because I had to deal with just how much I would have given to grown up in a family like my Ts and how much I just wanted to belong to him in any way possible: daughter, grandaughter, niece, you name it, just so I could have had a loving family where my needs were attended to.

If I'm right (and I must emphasize again how wrong I could be) then your desires for your doctor are pointing to deeper issues. The good news is that they are the kind of issues that you CAN deal with with your T. And by coming here.

AG

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:

I think that when we have attachment issues, and we find someone who seems to hold out the promise of providing what is missing (because those needs never go away) it often manifests as a romantic/erotic interest because as adults those are our closest, most supportive relationships. The closet we can come to the boundaryless existence we once had with our mothers. But the truth is, that we're looking for what we didn't have then when we were children. I thought it was really interesting that you're dream started along the lines of a sexual relationship but even in the middle of that you were amazed he could pick you up. But if you were a little girl, he would be able to do that easily. You recognized that the relationship felt wrong because of his saying he had to keep it from his wife and you're saying you wouldn't go to a hotel. When you did kiss him, your reaction was that it really wasn't what you were looking for. But at the end you were with his children, playing with them and he was smiling at you. I think this speaks very strongly of you looking for the security and strong arms of a father who would be there for you, of you wanting to be part of his family.

Wow. AG, what a wonderful interpretation. I burst into tears when I read it. Right on target, thank you!

I was thinking about my "men of transference past" last night and they all embodied something different that I missed in having a loving, involved dad. The professor tended to my intellect; he encouraged me, shared things with me from his discipline, and discussed various books and travel experiences with me. The boss and I were partners in crime, matching wit and making the other laugh in the process. And the doctor, who was at ground zero in the most frightening experience of my life, listened to me, validated me, cares about me, looks out for me, which are the most important things of all I think. He has tried to "will my good."

I'm to see my T today and I plan to discuss that dream with her (and others- my dreams have become very fertile ground lately). I know I miss the influence of a loving dad, I know the one I had abused me, was emotionally unavailable, and just a loser in about every way (there was very little to idolize) and I missed out on a lot. But now that I know that, how do I go forward without falling into the same trap over and over again? That is the key. It is what I need to figure out and hopefully my T can help lead me there.

SprintingGal

Sprinting Gal,
I'm so glad you found that helpful, I was hoping I was really not out in left field.

I think its great you're going to discuss your dreams with your T. Dreams have always been important to me in therapy and often the beginning of me dealing with a new issue starts with having a dream about it.

The key to not falling into the same trap again and again is to work through the feelings with your T. It may involve her becoming a secure base, it may involve you having to mourn and let go of the things that you didn't have but the end will result in being able to integrate the strength you need within yourself and be capable of forming interdepenent relationships where you can get your needs met. You'll stop being driven by an unconscious agenda. I think you're totally on the right track. Please let me know how your appt goes!

AG

I discussed the dream with T tonight. She interprets all of the images of our dreams as aspects of ourselves and said that Dr. X represents my own strength in carrying myself through this and everything else. The children represent the freedom that I never had. AG, I like your interpretation better as it meant more to me but I can see her point of view as well.

Tonight I made a real point to connect with my T. We talked about my relationship with my dad a lot and various events from my childhood. It made a difference. I feel good about the work we did tonight and I haven't felt that in a long time.

SprinterGal

SprintingGal,
I'm really glad that you are connecting with your T. The most important thing for our healing is having a good connection with our Ts. And I love those sessions where you walk out feeling like you did good work. Good for you! Enjoy the feeling, you really deserve it.

AG

HELLO EVERYONE, LONG TIME NO TALKY TO YOU ALL...BEEN DEALING WITH STUFF AND TRYING TO SURVIVE THE PRESENT!...HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A WONDERFUL THANKSGIVING! I AM THANKFUL FOR ALL MY NEW FRIENDS HERE ON THE FORUM...I DID NOT GET TO SEE MR.T YESTERDAY...IT MADE FOR A DEPRESSED EVENING...BUT MS.T WAS VERY UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE WHOLE THING..SHE IS REALLY GOOD FOR ME!...PEACE OUT MY FRIENDS!!...TALK TO YOU SOON!...CHARLOTTE

Hi there

This is a first post but I've been reading this topic for a few weeks now and yes, you've guessed, I too have the dreaded transference!! This topic has helped me to understand a lot but this Transference is making me ill for the last 6 weeks with one thing after another. It feels like I'm cheating on my husband because I spend all my time thinking about when I'm going to see my T next and how I'm going to talk to him about it, whether or not he has feelings for me etc etc - all the good stuff you guys have been discussing. We've had one physical 'holding' and boy I didn't want to leave it at that. So I upped the courage to tell him a week later and now I can't get rid of my feelings for him and the only way I can describe it is torture.

Lady of Shallot

I totally understand what you are saying. I was thinking of my T all the time, dressing differently just to go to my session, and just wondering about her all the time. I was making good progress, I was more positive and was working through things. The problem was when I realized what was going on I sort of back pedalled and just shut down. I know I have to bring this up but I am a little scared about it.

I am glad you had the courage to mention it to your T, do you mind me asking how that worked out with him.

Kat

Lady of Shallot,
Welcome to the boards! As you've already figured out,you're not alone here, a lot of people completely understand how you feel. You're not cheating because you have feelings about your T,but I understand it can feel this way. My T is always telling me that instead of beating myself up for what my feelings are, that it might be better to examine the feelings to see how I'm reacting and what I'm reacting to.It's usually good advice. Its actually a healthy sign in therapy when you feel this way, that you're wanting connection. And it was very brave of you to tell him how you felt, and if I may echo Katskills, how did he respond?

AG

Kat and AG

Thanks for your interest. Well, as I expected, he wasn't surprised. You see, I have been away for a few weeks and for some of those I was unable to attend a session so we kept in touch by text and phone. This was a completely new departure and some of those texts included the word 'love' as did some of the phone conversations so I reckon this got the transference juices going and I began to fall.....anyway, we - or should I say I, are still skirting around it a little but at least it's out there. I could still $%^^ him in a heartbeat though given half the chance so I'm keeping my physical distance!!!

Lady

I uh... haven't actually felt _erotic_ transference to Tfella before. But um...just a question here. Does it ever feel _odd_ to feel this way about someone you don't know a thing about?

I ask because I find the amount of trust (paternal-style) I have in Tfella to be vaguely alarming, sometimes. So Lady of Shallot, when you and AG were talking about erotic transference and love, I was wondering. I mean, I know that's why this thread is called "transference" instead of "love and lust", but... it still brought it to mind. How do you deal with having these feelings and not knowing the people involved, really?

Any notions?

Wynne,
Hmmm...Does it feel odd to feel this way about my T? You bet. At first I was faced with the fact that I know absoultely nothing about this woman and yet I loved her. I have been very uncomfortable with my feelings toward her erotic and maternal. After all I'm not gay, and she is not my mother. It felt obsurd to say the least and I critisized myself for feeling this way. It took a _long_ time to come to terms with and accept my transference love for her, of which I _still_ struggle with.

I think I've said it before that when I am sitting there in her presence and I have all I can do to keep from climbing on her lap like the little child I feel like I am, it gets pretty uncomfortable. She's maybe 10 years older than me and I find no reason why I should feel such a maternal pull for her other than the trust and initmacy that comes with the territory. And to know so little about our T allows us to determine how they fulfill our "ideal" maternal or paternal needs. While they must offer some authenticity they need to leave enough for us to fill in the blanks, so to speak. So I'm not so sure if it is about "dealing" with it as much as it seems to be about just working with it and going with the flow.

Did that answer your question? Or did I totally miss it?

Wynne

I can answer that in a different sense than JM. I am gay and my T is a female. I am totally attracted to her even though she is not my type, at least what I thought was not my type. In session she did ask me what my type was and I did not have a direct answer. I went home to think about it, and alot of the qualities that I expressed were things that I see in her. Nothing shocking, just someone who is positive, caring, listens....hey is that not what we pay them for.

This is a problem for me, as I have pulled back in therapy because of these feelings. After making so much progress I stop myself.

Would I like to have a relationship with T. Sure I would like to ask her out for coffee, maybe go to a play or something. I am gay, she is straight...the boundaries, the conflict, the continuous problem.

Kat

quote:

Nothing shocking, just someone who is positive, caring, listens....hey is that not what we pay them for.

Yes, but I also believe it is a genuine quality they possess too. It is more than just a skill you know? When an occupation is an art it has to come from the heart.

I am sorry that you are feeling so much conflict right now, Kat. It does ease up though. What you have with your T sounds genuine.

Lady of Shallot,

(I love the name and the poem. Very fitting for the topic at hand I think )

I haven't experience erotic transference for my T but do have very strong feelings for her and I of course envy anyone who gets to spend more than 45min a week with her. I think about her a lot and wonder what her life is like. Anything that she says or does that feels like even the slightest rejection sends me into a complete tailspin. I have also experienced strong positive transference feelings for other women that I have worked for or have learned from. The feelings are very powerful, torturous, and confusing. They are real and they won't be denied. Over the last few months since I have talked to my T about it and have talked to others here I have been able to own my transference and know that though the feelings are real they are also not what they seem. It is my past intruding in on my present and it happens to everyone all of the time. The intensity of the therapeutic relationship is especially fertile ground for transference to happen.

Some therapists welcome it and know how to handle it and others don't. We have had people on these boards with both kinds. It seems the therapists who have experience & training in using transference do a much better job handling it. That is one question I would ask your T: "Have you successfully dealt with transference before?" If not, then get him and yourself educated about it. The therapist must know what boundaries to put in place and how to keep them there firmly so that you will not get hurt. The T must also know how to deal with their own transference issues and hopefully is or has been in therapy themselves. This is another good question to ask.

So, in order to not write a novella here about all of this I want to refer you to two great websites that talk about transference, countertransference and erotic transference. I have found these along with Shrinklady's info on the topic to be extremely helpful. There is information in these articles that you are unlikely to get directly from your T so reading up on it at least helps clear up some of the confusion. Here are the links:

Transference & Countertransference: A Common Sense Perspective

About erotic transference - #1 - Falling in love with the therapist

About erotic transference - #2 - Acting on erotic transference/ countertransference

Transference - by our own Shrinklady

River

Thanks for the references. My guy is very grounded and welcomes my feelings as I welcome the opportunity to be honest.

Lady
(yes, an appropriate moniker)

Ugh. I ran into Dr. X out in public this week. Need support!

I saw him first even though he was some distance away from me, then he saw me, stumbled, smiled, changed his posture, and put on his detached doctor face. I didn't smile and acted like I didn't care but a million feelings went through me: fear, excitement, lust, shame, embarrassment, and major vulnerability. I suddenly felt extremely exposed. We passed each other and he looked down at me somberly, saying, "How are you." We both kept going and I said, "Good" over my shoulder. Then I had the urge to run away as fast and as far as I could.

I talked to my T about it the day it happened but she didn't have much insight. She tells me that "it is like having a crush on a celebrity because you will never know him."

SprintingGal,
That sounds really rough. But I think you handled it really well by just going on by. I know that must have been incredibly hard but in the long run probably less painful (although I'm definitely talking in a relative sense.)

And yes, it is like a crush on a celebrity because you don't know him, but when's the last time a celebrity cared for you while fighting off a life-threatening disease? I think its trivializing your feelings to just reduce it to that. You interacted with him extensively and from what you've shared in the past, he wasn't exactly stoical. I just don't want you thinking that you're somehow overreacting or being over the top.

I am sorry though, I know how unsettling I would have found that. I'm glad you came here.

AG

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
SprintingGal,
That sounds really rough. But I think you handled it really well by just going on by. I know that must have been incredibly hard but in the long run probably less painful (although I'm definitely talking in a relative sense.)

And yes, it is like a crush on a celebrity because you don't know him, but when's the last time a celebrity cared for you while fighting off a life-threatening disease? I think its trivializing your feelings to just reduce it to that. You interacted with him extensively and from what you've shared in the past, he wasn't exactly stoical. I just don't want you thinking that you're somehow overreacting or being over the top.

I am sorry though, I know how unsettling I would have found that. I'm glad you came here.

AG

I believe my T wants to "reprogram" me to think of him in that way in order to reduce my angst but I think it is an over-simplification. At this point I don't believe that Cognitive-Behavioral therapy can help me with this.

You are exactly right, he was not stoic about much of it, and when he put that solemn face on when we saw each other, I knew without a shadow of a doubt that it was his doctor act and it infuriated me! I want to say, "Dr. X, it is ME. I know it's an act so it doesn't work on me anymore. Aren't we past all that?" I thought I was special to him and then suddenly I wasn't.

I have always fantasized about running into him out in the world. Though I had that fantasy, I never considered the complications of it. I felt naked and he felt like a complete stranger. For the first time I felt the power imbalance; I have been uncharacteristically forthcoming to him about all of the emotions I have felt about my illness. I usually say nothing! The fact that this intimacy is one-sided, that I essentially know nothing about him became all too clear. Here is this stranger, "out in the world," who knows all about me. It honestly makes me nauseous and in fact, I have not eaten much since I saw him. I just have no appetite!

I want to say that it shattered the transference as the reality of the situation has become clearer to me. I do not know him. I know nothing about him. He could be anyone and capable of anything. He has all of this private information about me and I don't like it. I feel that if I don't believe I know him, I can't trust him with that information and I can't trust him to keep me well. I would have never revealed all that I revealed to him if he had not let down his guard with me, no question.

Okay, I'm rambling now...

SprintingGal... I understand how you are feeling to some extent... here is this guy walking down the street who knows so much about your inner feelings and this is scary. That makes you feel vulnerable and that is also what makes you feel so uncomfortable. But your doctor is bound by confidentiality so, unless he is totally without ethics, I believe your information is safe.

I actually had this discussion with my T a few weeks ago. I asked him what he would do if he ran into me (or me and my family) out on the street or in a restaurant. He told me he would not say hello or acknowledge me. I pretty much figured that would be his answer. And I understand he would behave that way to protect me and the confidentiality of the situation. I smiled though and I told him that I would definitely say hello and exchange pleasantries with him. Just wanted to "warn" him LOL.

And yes, this doctor/patient relationship is very one sided and I have come to accept that it needs to be this way for our own good. I will tell you that even though I would say hello to my T it would not leave me unaffected. Especially if he were with his family. That would defiitely bother me and leave me reeling with the fact that he has this other life that I cannot know about or be part of.

So I do think your reactions are pretty normal and you did not really over react. I'm sorry you had to suffer with this incident.

TN

I am not fearful of him literally breaking confidentiality. It is a little more abstract than that.

I am trying to take responsibility for my own projections here, I really am. HOWEVER, it is a fact that he has blurred the boundaries between us already. While nothing patently improper has happened, I believe it is impossible to go back. He cannot act like he is present and sincerely cares about me one time, then detached and icy the next and expect me to not feel confused, vulnerable, or threatened. There is no consistency so I, in fact, do not "know" who I am dealing with! Am I dealing with a detached doctor who is trying to cure my illness or an emotionally engaged man who wants to save me?

Geez, this is more complicated than I initially realized. I thought it was all me and now I don't believe that.

Wow, I wonder how I would react if I saw my T out in public? I often have the possiblity of it running in the back of my mind even though we live an hour apart and it is highly unlikely. I always thought that if I noticed her at a distance I would stay back and respect her privacy. If we made eye contact I would definitely smile and say hello but not approach her. The thought of it actually happening would frighten me. And if she didn't at least say hello back I would be upset. Afterall I'm not going to see her at some restaurant and invite myself to dine with her or introduce myself to her family. I think a casual greeting would be polite depending on the circumstance.

Oddly enough, I happened to arrive at the parking structure at about the same time she did just before one of my appointments and seen her getting out of her car and I wouldn't even park next to her. I got out of my car and tried to walk a few steps behind her thinking she probably didn't know I was there. She slowed down looking for something in her purse so I finally made a remark so that she would know I was coming up behind her and wouldn't startle her. We talked as we walked along the sidewalk to the office but I felt a little intrusive eventhough I know I wasn't. But at least I was on my way to an appointment with her and not just taken by surprise. The way you describe it would be very awkward. I understand why you would want to run away.

quote:

it is a fact that he has blurred the boundaries between us already. While nothing patently improper has happened, I believe it is impossible to go back. He cannot act like he is present and sincerely cares about me one time, then detached and icy the next and expect me to not feel confused, vulnerable, or threatened. There is no consistency so I, in fact, do not "know" who I am dealing with! Am I dealing with a detached doctor who is trying to cure my illness or an emotionally engaged man who wants to save me?

I wonder if you should talk to him the next time you see him professionally. I can't remember if you said you were finished seeing him or not. He should know that avoiding what happened with the boundaries is not productive, but he may also be afraid of your expectations and does not want to risk hurting or disappointing you. I don't know that I am right on this, but I can sympathize with your mixed emotions.

(((SprintingGal)))

Hi I'm new I'm having problems that I think may be transference. I wish that my therapist was my mum. I'm a young person and I think this may have something to do with it. Can anyone explain this. After reading about what happened to Charlotte i don't think i should tell my therapist.

Hi Emerald, welcome to the forum.

Wishing your therapist was your mother is common around here as I am sure you have realized in your reading this thread. It is nothing to feel ashamed about and it is a very natural occurance in therapy given its unique setting. So I hope first off all that you feel assured of that.

What happened with Charlotte is not a typical therapist reaction to what is simply labled transference. All and all, despite her tremendously difficult experience, her T handled her peticular situation in a very appropriate manner and I believe that she would tell you that herself, but it was certainly painful nonetheless and I understand your worries as far as that goes. It is a client's worse nightmare to feel rejected and abandoned by their therapist especially after disclosing such personal and sometimes humiliating feelings.

There is so much to be said about transference it's impossible to know where to start w/o knowing what you are already aware of and what sort of questions you have. I assume you have already read Shrinklady's page on transference on her website? If not that is a good place to start. Otherwise I could write novel about stuff you already know when you might in fact have a more direct question. And I don't want to do that to you.

I am 43 years old and I wish my T was my mom too. I really do. And I told her this and other transference feelings and she is ok with it. But this is something that YOU have to be ready to disclose and that is based on your trust and what you already know about your relationship with your T. I was in therapy for 3-4 months before I told my T what I was feeling and that is because it was tormenting me and I thought something was wrong with me. I confessed my feelings eventhough I was terrified she would terminate me. I even told her that and she assured me that would not happen. She was very gentle and understanding.

She also helped mme to undertsand that having transference feelings and trying to act on them are two different things. We can work through transference but if it becomes an obsession to act on then that is what becomes unworkable. And eventhoughit feels obsessive sometimes, I am not inclined to act it out. I hope that makes sense emerald.

Can I ask, how long have you been in therapy?

If you have any further questions please feel free to ask and to post all you need.

JM

Hi Emerald,
I wanted to say hi and welcome to the forums! I can certainly relate to how your feeling. I worked with my first therapist for a lot of years on and off and I went through a stage with her where I very intensely longed for her to be my mother. As I worked it through I came to realize that I saw in her qualities I would have loved for my mom to have had, but she didn't. It helped to recognize and mourn my losses.

Our relationships with our Ts are so close and intimate that they often stir up our feelings surrounding our unmet needs. This is where the work of therapy often gets done. It's healthy that your are wanting connection with her. And I understand your fear of discussing your feelings with her, but how you're feeling really isn't uncommon and it could really be helpful to discuss how you're feeling with her.

JM, very wisely, suggested reading Shrinklady's transference page. There's also a lot of good info in the transference threads Upate on Transference and reading from the beginning of this one.

We're glad you found this place and you introduced yourself. Let me echo JM, that we hope you feel free to share any feelings you want to talk about and ask any questions you want to.

AG

Hello Everyone, I hope you all had good holidays...I hope that you are all doing good in the "transference" world...Haha...if that is possible...I actually had a good visit with my new Ms. T. today...I saw old Mr. T. and actually was able to say, "Hello, How were your holidays?" he even answered...fine and yours too I hope...I thought I would fall apart later, but was really proud of the fact that it didn't throw me for a loop...I am excited...I didn't think much about him thru the holidays...but have wondered what he got his wife, and vice versa...stupid I guess..but Rome wasn't built in a day...I also have another new shrink as well...I have only seen him 1 time...not sure at this point what I think of him...but I am keeping my guard up...i do not want round 2 of this thing...Talk to you guys later...Have a Happy New Year!..Charlotte

Hey Charlotte! It's nice to hear from you! I hope the holidays treated you ok. Sounds like you are getting along pretty good and I am glad to hear that things are working out between you and Ms. T. I am sure the other will take some time, but you are an amazingly strong woman. And I don't blame you for being on gaurd with the new T. But I admire your strength and determination. I am so glad you checked in to say hello.
JM

Hi All, and Happy New Year,

Would having dreams about your therapist constitute transference? I suppose it would. Here's why I ask:

This week, my T asked if we could change the time of day of our appt from 6:30pm to 9:00am. I said fine, but it just meant that I'd have to get up pretty early to get there (he's a ways away from where I live).

The night before our meeting, I woke up with terrible anxiety, and once I finally got back to sleep, I had dreams all night of being late to the appointment, and I even dreamt of talking to him about it.

Yesterday in our session, we talked about it and established that I was actually angry and resentful that he asked me to change times because - basically - I felt he was putting his convenience before our relationship. Well, of course this was the case...this is exactly what I felt. And because I am trying to get from him what I never got from my father, well, I'm just a tad sensitive about it.

He then suggested that the fact that I got anxious about - and dreamt of - me being late instead dreaming that he would be late shows that, once again, I take things and turn them against myself. He said, "what about being pissed at me for changing appointment times and instead of rushing to get here, take your time and get here when you can. After all, I changed the time, you didn't."

Again, it comes down to me turning anger against myself instead of where it should be directed, and not standing up for myself...just like I've done my whole life with my father.

Thoughts?

BTW, thanks for all the wonderful support, everyone. This place has been a really, really valuable resource to me.

Russ

quote:

instead of rushing to get here, take your time and get here when you can

Just curious Russ, does this mean that your appt starts when you get there and goes for the full session time? Every minute I am late I pay for since we still end on time because she has another client waiting who doesn't want to go in late.

I wake up at 4am to get to work by 5:30. Even after two years of this schedule I still don't sleep very well because of the anticipation of having to get up so early and dream a lot about being late to work and missing my carpool.

I am glad you talked to your T about it, it does sound like the time change and how you internalized the feeling you had about it were definitely a replay of your past. Isn't it nice when this stuff happens and it directly relates to past experiences? It makes learning the new lesson and how to handle it that much easier.

quote:

Just curious Russ, does this mean that your appt starts when you get there and goes for the full session time? Every minute I am late I pay for since we still end on time because she has another client waiting who doesn't want to go in late.

River, this was kind of an unusual situation since it was yesterday (New Year's Eve). He had plenty of time after my appt. to make up if one of us was late. In fact, he ended up being 10 minutes late. But usually, he does have other people before/after me.

quote:

Isn't it nice when this stuff happens and it directly relates to past experiences? It makes learning the new lesson and how to handle it that much easier.

Absolutely!

Hi Thanks for the replies, im thinking of discussing that I have feelings of wanting her to be my mum. What is the best way to say this?
I think it is important to discuss it. When she talks about doing stuff with her duaghters i wish i was the daughter that she was doing things with.
I yearn for it. Is that wrong?
I started therapy with her about 3 and a half years ago and she is a psychotherapist i was really resistant to being close to her and still sometimes am worried about it.
transference is so confusing when your in the middle of it. I dont think its a bad thing just another thing to work thru.

quote:

I think it is important to discuss it. When she talks about doing stuff with her duaghters i wish i was the daughter that she was doing things with.
I yearn for it. Is that wrong?

Emerald, I don't think that's wrong at all. I think it's quite natural to have those feelings for our T's. And just so you know, I have told my T I have these feelings. That I wish I was her daughter, I wish I could be her "little" girl and sit on her lap. And she accepts these expressions just fine. Her acceptance feels so validating.

Once during session I was crying and I told her I wish she could hold me. She told me to imagine her holding me. To do so in her presence was quite different, but she accepted it and encouraged it.

I think we all resist getting close. It is our experience that closeness means danger. But with our T's we learn it means something safe and acceptable.

Perhaps the best way to say it is to express that you do not want to act on it, but that you have some feelings about her that you really need to discuss. Some of us have written letters and emails that we send to them before our sessions when we have something too troubling to say in person, but we know we need to express. Then when we go to our next session it’s already on the table.

I hope this helps.

Emerald,
I don't think its wrong at all to feel like you wish you were the daughter she was doing things with. I had some really strong reactions to my T's last vacation part of which was the frustration of knowing his family knew him in a way I couldn't and how much I longed to be part of a family like his (which I have a tendency to idealize, but my T certainly recognized where the longing was coming from.) I've talked to him about wanting to be two years old so I could climb up in his lap and experience a safe embrace, I've talked to him about romantic/erotic attractions and even recently, how much I regretted the boundaries because a discussion came up in a couples session with my husband about a subject I'm really interested in in which my T has done extensive reading (he's one of the most intellectually curious people I've ever met which I find extremely appealing in a person). I told him at our next session that as much as I am grateful for the boundaries and how much I understand how necessary they are to our work together, I just wanted to crack open a couple bottles of red wine and talk for a few hours. I have even told my T that I loved him (in a non-romantic sense). Every time I've expressed any of these emotions or longings he has been completely accepting and understanding of my feelings. Working through how I feel, what I long for and why has been a really important part of our work together.

These feelings are happening for a reason and are a sign of a healthy reaching out for relationship. Talking about it with your T would be a really good thing.

AG

Hey everyone, Charlotte here with some issues at hand this week. First I would like to thank Russ for sharing his session. it opened up a new view to some things I have been tossing around.I have therapy every Tuesday with Ms. T...(for those of you that don't know me, I have transference feelings for my old Mr. T...but he referred me to the new woman in his office so he could work with me from the sidelines...she discusses all our sessions with him and he does not see me...he speaks in the office but that is the extent...I really fell hard when he told me he couldn't work with me anymore...i just about went over the edge...He is a great doctor...and so kind and gentle) but alot of support came from this site...especially Just Me & Attachment Girl...who have great words of wisdom BTW...listen carefully when the tell you anything....but anyway all that to say this; I thought I was doing really good the last few weeks...back on course...not dwelling on Mr. T...somewhat dieting, exercising, and getting it together...then BAM!! Problem #1; My husband and I have been having problems for the last year (which started this whole mess with Mr. T) ..Well NYear's night, we were intimate. At least I thought I was, he was somewhere else...it was almost a chore it seemed for him...I got so uptight, I couldn't sleep or eat...and haven't done either since then...and now Mr. T is in my every thought and activity...I have called his office several times after hours just to hear his voice...I have my new Ms. T's personal cell #, but I refuse to call it..WHY???...I called her last time something like this happened, and she calmed me right down...but this time, I don't want her to call and let her calm me down...I want to be in this situation....It is getting the best of me...I'm tired, I'm ill, I have a killer headache...and I just don't give a ____!!...Somebody out there tell me what I need to do...I can't seem to do it on my own...they are both Psych-neurologist's that have been helping me with some brain injury issues.... Now Problem # 2; (it never ends!) Mr. T referred me to a regular shrink for medication purposes, etc...I'll call him Mr. T2...Well at our 1st visit last week...Mr. T2 tells me that transference is not an uncommon problem you all know that story....and that Mr. T did the most professional thing possible by referring me to a female T. to help him...yadayadayada. then after listening to me..he tells m that he thinks this stems from when I was 2 years old and my biological mom left us standing on the front porch with my dad (4 girls; 2,4,6,7 yrs old) for alcohol and pills...and that I had been carrying around this feeling of abandonment towards her my whole life...okay I thought it was about me and my husband's problems...so now i'm confused?? well that wasn't good enough...My biological mom calls me and ask's can she spend the night at my house the Friday after Christmas...we always have our Christmas with my sisters and her the Saturday afterwards...She has never spent the night with me...hardly been to my house in the 30 years i been married...and doesn't even acknowledge my children's birthdays...etc...she was an alcholic and had a nervous breakdown when she left us...well, she came...it was so weird..I had alot of resentment towards her...but was it legit or just because Mr. T2 suggested it??...I really tried to make it special for her because she had never done this before...she is 78 and can't drive he distance...celebrate...and drive back the same day like she usually does...it's too much for her...but she has always stayed somewhere else at a cousins or something...Why now...I am afraid she might be dying...it was so weird...but I was so glad when she was headed back to her home..(2 hours away)...I literally laid down that Saturday evening about 6:00pm...and could not even focus...or eat...or hardly get to the bathroom and back...and I did not get up out of the bed until Monday!!!!...and I SLEPT THE ENTIRE TIME!!! I never sleep more than 4 hours a night...if that much...I'm sorry I wrote you all a book...but I am stressing my brain into a Coma...I have cleaned every closet in my house...took all the pictures down washed the walls...packed up all the stuff i could take to goodwill...consignments..took back returnsfrom Christmas...shopped until i dropped...(then I take it all back the next day)...I am ready to go back to work Monday...not really ..good news though...I've lost 10.5 pounds since Christmas day...Help me out guys.
Thanks, Charlotte

PS Guys...to top it all off...I have really been thinnking all day about how sexy and good looking my new unmarried Mr. T2 is!! Oh God...I'm such a loser!!!I can't take a double dose of transference....it will kill me......help...I'm so $*@(!(#(#!)() Stupid!!...What am I gonna do...Well Happy New Year to Charlotte!!!!

Charlotte-I am so sorry that you are going through so much right now. It sounds like your emotions and nervous system are clambering all over. You’re going through a great deal of stress and I’m glad you came around for support. You are such a fighter! I can see that all of your issues that you mention seem singular in of themselves, yet they are also quite connected I think, as Mr. T 2 pointed out in regards to abandonment issues and transference. What happened to you in your childhood has continued to affect you in your everyday life and relationships.

1) What you are experiencing with your husband are serious relationship issues that he needs to be willing to work out too and you are not responsible for his short-comings. That is no reflection on you although I am sure it feels like it is. His not being there for you emotionally especially during intimacy is abandonment and that triggers unseen and very powerful feelings in you. Of course you are going to resort back to the feelings of security and care that Mr T offered you in your devastatingly short relationship. That’s not wrong nor is it a problem; it is actually useful to identify the heart of what you are feeling emotionally, and what you need and what you long for. Don’t stuff it, but talk to Ms T about it.

Which leads me to say; CALL HER! She is there for you and has given you a direct personal line for you to reach out to her. Your mom never did that. Somehow you believe that you have to stay in the misery and chaos. That this is where you belong in this world. But that’s not true Charlotte. You’re stuck and that’s where you brazenly and so honestly admit you want to be, because you don’t know anything else and you’re afraid of anything else. You’re afraid that Ms. T is going to abandon you too and you’re not willing to let her hurt you that way. But yet you know she won’t abandon you. You are cognitively aware that she is different. The problem is what you sense and experience about abandonment and what you experience and what you know about Ms. T are taking place in different parts of the brain. Eventually as you test your relationship with her, you will experience that she is different and your response to her will become just as it needs to be. (I hope this makes sense)

2) Your mom shows up in the midst of all this is certainly going to trigger some old stuff because you are processing it deep inside whether you are aware of it or not. If there was any suggestibility from your T it is only because it was already going on inside anyway. BTW: The therapeutic relationship is a highly suggestible arena. That’s why it works.

Your resentment is well founded but is also a barrier to the deeper emotions, the hurt and grief that you need to access that her abandoning you has created. You felt the resentment because it was safer than the pain and you were able to stuff that easier as you had to “take care” of your mom and make her visit special. BTW: That is a beautiful gesture you made for her. But now it’s time to give back to Charlotte. After all that you probably felt honored that she stayed with you and spent time with you and your family. That was probably very hard to let go of and watch her leave again, yet I am sure it was also a relief when she did. You have a lot to process here Charlotte. But take it slow, it will all come out eventually.

You’re afraid she might be dying because she is 78 years old _and_ you have so many unresolved issues with her. I am sure as you watched her leave you may have wondered if that was the last time you might see her. My dad is 83 and I think about that every time I say good-bye.

So it sounds like you’ve been run through the mill again Charlotte. I really wish I could help more. But one last thing, the most important thing I want to say again because it bears repeating: CALL Ms. T! And again, I am glad you came here for support and using your resources like you are. You are doing good. It’s time to slow down though. This is the biggest concern I have for you right now. You have a lot going on and I am sure that your brain injury makes it difficult for your nervous system to self-regulate, so it is going to require effort to learn how to do that.

Here's a link to one of Shrinklady's amazingly helpful pages:
Nature's Self Regulation

Please stay in touch!
JM

Hi Charlotte,

I don't think you're $*@(!(#(#!)() stupid. I think you're going through a really rough time and your new Mr. T2 is showing your real kindness. If I were you I'd want to soak up as much of that as I could.

I've been reading a lot about transference and have learned that it can be very healing if managed properly. My transference happened with a female and there's no danger of me going that way so it's a bit harder for me to relate exactly what you're going through but I think the feelings are similar enough that I can try.

I've been having trouble with my husband through the years but this year has been especially bad. I felt like he abandoned me emotionally when I needed him the most. Not only did he abandon me, he put all the blame on me for everything that was going wrong with our lives. I turned to my son's T for support because I wasn't getting it anywhere else and I desperately needed it. She was there for me in ways no one had ever really been, not my parents, not my friends, not my brother or sister. She filled that hole that had been empty for as long as I can remember. So while it didn't really have to do with my husband and and my feelings for him, it did. I am never going to leave him for her, but it has helped me recognize some of what is missing in our relationship. Now that I recognize it, maybe I can do something about it.

Just Me is right, I really hope you can call your T and talk to her about all of this. Sometimes we get so used to living in emotional turmoil, we feel comfortable there, at least we know what to expect.

I didn't want to talk to my new T about my son's T because I knew what she would say, and I didn't want to hear it. I wanted to live in my fantasy world of my son's T becoming my friend and making everything all right, even though that also came with the painful thoughts that it wasn't going to happen and unrequited transference and all that, at least the hope was still alive. I'm not sure if that's why you don't want to talk to Ms. T, or because you are comfortable with the turmoil. Either way I've been there. Like Just Me said, she's offered you the opportunity to reach out, and I think you should do it. Lean on her as much as possible.

It seems like when it rains it pours, doesn't it? After your visit from your mom, I'm not surprised you had to get some much-needed rest.

There's a post going on about having so many things to talk about in therapy that some of us don't even want to go because there's too much to say and not enought time.

quote:

Quote from Shrinklady's Titration page

quote:
Some clients arrive at the therapist's office anxious to discuss a long list of topics. If this describes you, I'd encourage you to consider a smaller list.

It's usually far more effective to explore one topic than it is to rush through many. The value of therapy is less in making sure your therapist knows all the details than it is in experiencing parts of your story with your therapist.

I think it fits here as well. You've got a lot going on and concentrating on it all seems so overwhelming. Try to process one issue at a time. (Easier said than done, believe me I know!)

I hope things calm down for you. Keep us posted.

OW

I think that sometimes we have a picture in our mind about what our therapists lives are actually like and it might be way off of what the actual truth is.

Like im picturing a nurturing mother that takes time for her family where as it could be that shes distant or over protective.

Yes emerald, I would also like to think that my T is the most perfect person in the world. When we are together in the containment of her office, she is perfect to me. But, I realize that she is also human. As much as I would love to be her daughter, I'm sure if I talked to her daughter I would find out that she, like every mother, has made mistakes. That she has maybe overreacted to things as I sometimes do. That she has said things that she regrets. My T is divorced and as much as I would like to think that her ex must have been a monster to her, I realize that there may have been things that she did to contribute to the situation. That is why it is good that we don't know too much about our Ts. It would burst our bubble of being able to trust the one person in the world that we think has all the answers to help us heal. I know I have placed my T on a very high pedestal and I couldn't take it if she ever fell off. That being said, I really do realize that she is also a person just like you and me with lots of faults and failings.

PL

Hi emerald. I get what you mean, making up in our minds what our therapists may really be like and I have done that with a lot of people, not just therapists. I have had transference experiences with bosses and teachers, and have done this. The transference "fantasy" seems to ease the more I get to know them.

My most recent obsession was my son's T. I'm still not sure it's transference but some of the feelings seem to fit so that's what I'm going with. But, I never put my son's T on a pedestal - I saw her faults and it made me appreciate her more. We live in a small town, she works at my son's school, her kids go there. She has talked a lot about her kids and she said it herself, she has self-disclosed a lot and maybe wasn't too good with boundaries. I've seen her flustered and I've been annoyed with her. I saw that she was a real person with real faults but still she was able to reach out to me and give me what I needed more than anything in the world.

I think that's probably why I got in my mind that friendship was possible. I felt like I was on an even level with her. I didn't' feel like I was talking to a therapist when I talked to her, I felt like I was talking to a friend. I didn't think she could save me, or even give me just the advice I needed to solve my problems. But she was there, she was able to just listen and offer me support, and I felt like she really cared.

I know more about her than most people know about their therapists, but I realize I still don't know the real her. But that's the way it is when you start a friendship. You feel a connection and then you get to know each other better. Then you may either become closer or grow apart.

Where it became different from a typical friendship forming, for me, was when I realized that I could really depend on her, and that I never had that in my life before. She told me to call or email whenever I needed to and I did. I took full advantage. She did make the boundaries clear at that point when she told me I needed to make friends and get my own support system. I realized she couldn't be my friend and that she was acting as a therapist. I began to question why, and when I saw that there were rules against us being friends, I began to worry that she was just doing her job and that she really didn't care as much as I thought. But then I asked her and she validated my feelings. She said she would love to be friends if it weren't for the way we met. Then I just became angry at the rules and the obsession got a little worse.

I think it could have worked if she had stayed my son's T. We could have talked out all this transference stuff. I could still get what I needed and accepted the boundaries. It could have been very positive, just like some other experiences here on this board. But that didn't work, my son is getting referred to another T for some more serious issues. So the prospect of her not being there for me became all too real, and the obsession grew more.

I still haven't accepted that she is out of my life. School is starting again tomorrow and I still keep thinking in the back of my mind that it's not over. She has been so important to me that I just still can't imagine it. I'm 100% sure I will see her, it's unavoidable, I'm just not sure how hard it's going to be. I still really have the urge to talk to her about it all, if for nothing else but closure. I'm not sure it would work out the way I wanted it too, though, because I'm pretty sure she doesn't know how deep my need goes.

Wow, that turned into quite a long post didn't it. Thanks to anyone who stuck through and read it.

OW

Hey OW, This is Charloote...I stuck you out and know what you are saying...My old T, referred me to my new Ms. T because i disclosed my transference feelings to him...I about died...but I relize now that it was the best thing...I thought the first time I saw him afterwards in the office that the whole staff probably new my issues...but they didn't..it was so hard to look at him, yet I needed to see his face to be able to function. yes, I have cried many times after leaving therapy with Ms. T because he was in his office with another patient during "My appointment time", but that's the emotional human part of this transference thing. It has become much easier as the weeks have passed, and we even speak small talk, smile, nod, etc, now. It has made it easier to relate to Ms. T, and although my feelings of transference are in no way gone, you know that from my blogs here on the forum...it is getting easier in a funky sorta way I guess...anyway I said all that to say...thanks for your help the other night...and hope this has helped you to be able to see your son's T at school and hold your head high...because as you said...your both only human!!..Charlotte

Charlotte,
I'm so glad to hear you're having an easier time with your T situation. You've been incredibly strong and you should be really proud of yourself.

OW,
Just for the record, that was a short post.
I'm really sorry for what you're going through. I know how intense my feelings have been for my T. At one point, I remember feeling like it would literally kill me if I lost him, so I can only imagine how painful it must be to have this relationship be off bounds. In many ways, transference is easier when its with your own T because you can work it out with them. But I think the really important part of this experience for you is being able to recognize your feelings and the needs that you are trying to fulfill. They're good, healthy needs that SHOULD be met and you will work out how to meet them with the help of your therapist. And its also good that you're able to understand why the relationship isn't happening and you're concentrating your efforts on getting the help that you need.

And I understand the wondering if the relationship was real. I struggled with that for a LONG time and have just recently come to understand and believe that the relationship is a very real one. I believe your son's T really did care for you and the relationship is real. I think that she's behaving the way she is out of a concern for your well being. I know that doesn't make it not hurt, but I hope its some comfort.

And please don't feel like you're saying too much or talking about it too much. That's why we're all here. These are deeply painful and deeply significant feelings that take a lot of time to work through. And a lot of repitition (at least in my case!). You need to use all your resources and this is one of them. And it helps everyone to hear about how other people struggle with these issues. It can often help us feel more normal and give us other perspectives and ideas on how to best handle it.

AG

HEY AG GLAD YOU ARE FEELING BETTER NOW. I HAVE HAD A CRAZY WEEK...IT HAS BEEN A BAD WEEKEND FOR MY BRAIN PROBLEMS, AND MY DEPRESSION SEEMS TO BE TRYING MY PATIENCE!...BUT I HAVE TRIED REALLY HARD TO FOLLOW THE PLANS THAT I MADE WITH MS. T...TO EXERCISE AND EAT MORE HEALTHY FOODS...KEEPING A FOOD JOURNAL ETC..BUT THE MORE I TRY TO DO THAT THE MORE I AM FOCUSED ON MY OLD MR. T... WHY IS THAT HAPPENING?? I HAVE LOST DOWN ANOTHER SIZE AND WENT TO GET A NEW OUTFIT TO WEAR TOMORROW SO THAT HE WILL SEE ME...I DON'T FEEL LIKE I WANT TO DO THINGS LIKE THIS...BUT I DO...JUST WHEN I THOUGHT IT WAS GETTING BETTER...I'M AFRAID IF I TELL MS.T AND SHE DISCUSSES IT WITH MR.T...WILL HE KICK ME OUT AGAIN...I FEEL LIKE I CAN'T TELL HER ANYTHING...THEN NEXT WEEK I MAY SPILL MY GUTS TO HER AND FEEL SO MUCH BETTER BECAUSE I TRUST HER...DOES THIS MAKE SENSE...IT DOESN'T TO ME...I THINK I'VE LOST A MARBLE OR TWO...MY BRAIN IS SPINNING A 1000 MILES AN HOUR I BETTER GET OFF HERE BEFORE I FREAK OUT!!...JM...WHERE ARE YOU HIDING???
CHARLOTTE

Charlotte - thank you so much for posting. I've been reading your posts with great interest because I see the similarities in our situations. I think you're handling things so well, you haven't given up, and you're working through your feelings - in my eyes you're an inspiration. (I don't have any romantic feelings for my son's T but I still worry about what I wear when I know I'm going to see her, I think it's perfectly natural.)

AG - thank you for the reassurance. That's something I could definitely use a lot of!

A few weeks ago I said I couldn't imagine my life without my son's T there to reassure me. I haven't talked to her or seen her since Dec. 18. I haven't completely shut down so I guess I'm doing OK.

I have been able to recognize the feelings and needs I'm trying to fulfill but what if I'm never able to actually fulfill them? I've never been very good at making friends - I have a lot of acquaintances but it never seems to go much deeper. I've known for a long time why I can't make friends and so far, knowing it hasn't helped much.

I understand, intellectually, why the relationship isn't happening, but I'm not there emotionally yet. I still want her to call and ask me if I want to go out and talk. So I'm trying to figure out if I can get someone to replace her and I just don't see it. I am working through my feelings with my new T, ever so painfully slowly, but I doubt I will ever have these sorts of feelings for my new T. I've had other Ts before, and this T feels very much like those. Right now I think that's a very good thing, because I wouldn't be able to be so open and honest if I was afraid this could happen again.

But there is still a huge void. Sometimes I'm mad at my son's T for pointing out this huge void in my life. She told me on more than one occasion that I need a support system, that no one can handle all this with no support. I was all set to bear it all alone, because that's what I've done my entire life. Then she became my support and showed me that it was possible for me to depend on someone else. She showed me what a relief it was to not bear something all alone.

After the fact, I'm not sure that was the best thing. I was in pretty bad shape, so maybe she did help me from completely falling apart. I may have started to believe my family members who told me I was doing everything wrong. My marriage may have very well fallen apart. But now I'm left still dealing with all the issues I was before, plus this new one.

Now that I'm in the middle of it there's no way I would turn around and stop, because I know I can't go back. I keep clinging to the hope that it will get better, and the inspiration I find here is probably the biggest thing keeping me going.

quote:

I believe your son's T really did care for you and the relationship is real. I think that she's behaving the way she is out of a concern for your well being. I know that doesn't make it not hurt, but I hope its some comfort.

I've read this over and over and it does give me comfort. I have a hard time believing it, but it is good to hear. I don't think I would even believe it if she told me. Maybe I will with time.

OW

Ugh. I saw her today. My son had a psych appointment and I picked him at at school. I saw her at school (she was leaving) and then I saw her again at the psych office (psych sees the kids at a church office in town and she was bringing him paperwook). It was easy enough (well not really but I got through it without embarassing myself) to say 'hi' and then go about our business, but now I can't seem to concentrate on anything else.

OW

I'm sorry that you have to keep being reminded of the pain by running into her. It seems like you need some time to let the wound heal. You should feel proud of yourself though that you were able to say "hi" and then move on. Remember, baby steps.

I see my T in about an hour and I'm already freaking about how 50 minutes doesn't seem long enough and when I leave I will feel good for a little while, and then start missing her again. Sheesh! Why can't I just enjoy the "moment" and stop worrying about the future. Oh yeah, that's one of the reasons why I am seeing her.

PL

OW- that must be so frustrating to see her so much. I hope you can find some closure to this real soon. Please feel free to speak about it here as much as you need to. I know it's hard to hold stuff like that in and especially when not too many people understand what this is like. I don't want you to feel alone with this. That just makes it so much more enormous to deal with.


PL-How did your session go today? I think the longings are far more difficult right after session. At least for the first 24-48 hours. That's when I tend to call my T the most.

Hang in there you two. You're not alone!
JM

JM

Thanks for asking. Actually, it did and it didn't go so well. I mean, she was great as always, but we didn't end up talking about what I wanted to talk about. (whatever that was!) There is something going on with my son and we ended up talking about that. I feel sort of down about it because I feel like I wasted time that is supposed to be for me, on my son. I know that doesn't sound like a very nice mom. I'm just so tired of dealing with his problems at the moment. Anyway, the way I need to look at it is that she did help me with my response/coping with his issues. So I guess it was still about me. She says I have "battle fatigue" in regards to his problems. I'll get over this, I'm just feeling sorry for myself.

The good thing is that I will be seeing her on Thursday. I have been going 2X's a week for the past few months because she felt that I needed more "containment." She was right because I couldn't make it the whole week without calling her and talking for another hour. I would rather talk to her in person than on the phone if I can. It has made my therapy much more intense, the transference more deep, but my progress much quicker. Even though I didn't think I got what I wanted, she knew what she was doing. I feel much better about the issue with my son and she gave me guidance in how to deal with him. He and I talked just a little while ago and I used all of her suggestions. It turned out well. Ok, I guess I'm done feeling sorry for myself.

PL

Well, I guess we all have Transference Tuesday sessions! I was there today too. I saw Mr T before my session, and he spoke a couple times...it thrilled my heart...but I tried to act very professional. Then I saw him afterwards and he asked me if I was okay...is that not weird..Am I ok???...NO NO NO!! I'm not okay I wanted to say...I want to be in there working thru this with you not her!!!...but I just replied.."I'm fine thank you for asking"..but I guess him speaking to me before really helped...because I was able to open up about things with Ms. T like I never had before..it just takes time...of course He will be my fantasy for the next few days....it's always like that...it wouldn't be a problem if we seen them and then didn't think about them again until next time...it's just human nature!
OW, don't say you don't make friends easily...look at this forum...you are covered up with friends...we may not see things "EYE TO EYE"...LOL...but we are all here in the same boat...on the same river, with the same hole in the same float...helping each other to keep our heads above the water...is that not what true friends do?...I THINK SO!!...yes life stinks sometimes, but it does whether you have things going on or not. God gives us the valleys...so the mountain tops look more beautiful when we finally reach them...Just the other night I felt like a total idiot...but it was you that said...

quote:

I don't think you're $*@(!(#(#!)() stupid. I think you're going through a really rough time and your new Mr. T2 is showing your real kindness. If I were you I'd want to soak up as much of that as I could.

It helped me thru the hour of gloom....and probably so many others on this forum we don't even know about...i see things that others post on here...that i apply to myself all the time...it helps!!. AG, JM, ShrinkLady..etc WE all do the same. I couldn't name all of us...I haven't been here long myself...but long enough to know that I can speak out of my heart...and others are listening and caring...have a great night, talk to you all later, and remember..
"When you click into this clique....you have been hand picked by the man upstairs that put you where people really care!!!"
Charlotte
PS I see my other new shrink (Mr. T2)tomorrow for the 2nd time...say a prayer for me...I'm already anxious!!!

Hi everyone. I had to cancel my appointment with my T and I would usually feel really upset about it but i didnt. she resheduled it in a few days later. I was meant to see her today.

I think that it was because of these new mother feelings ive been having and im a bit afraid of it because i have decided to discuss it with her in the next session.

Hey emerald,
I understand your stress. It was utterly painful when I expressed my transference to my T, but she accepted it very warmly. You already have a good solid working relationship with her so trust that and use that as a resource to build up the courage when you do talk to her. Think about her warmth and what you know to be true about her in her past dealing with you. And as AG would say "BREATHE."

If you haven't already done so I find it helps to write out my feelings on paper to try to get a clear idea of what I want to say. Then if you're like me you will probably stumble around it anyway. Some of us write letters or emails to our T so they can read it before hand and then it's already on the table when you show up. You can even just present the letter to her in person and let her read it and then discuss it. I've done this on difficult issues too and I find it really helps. I have learned that there isn't anything I can't discuss with my T. It doesn't mean it's easy, but it's true.

If this is distressing you too much to disclose this to her, just take it slow. You can at least relate that there is something distressing you that you need to discuss with her but don't quite know to go about it. She may help ease it out of you or you may be inclined to say "I'm just not ready yet." But take it slow and try to feel as grounded as you can.

Take care!
JM

PL- I've had sessions go that way too. Sometimes one or all of the kids are causing some stress and sometimes it's the dear ol hubbby. I know I needed to talk about it at the time, but I felt sort of cheated out of my session and what is supposed to be "my time." I don't share my T with anybody and sometimes that's what it feels like when I talk about my other relationships. But essentially it is supposed to help us learn how to work through those too. I just sort of tell my T that I want to put a time limit on the "side issues" to make room for me and that seems to help. I know we are experiencing hardship w/ our oldest son right from the other night that is stressing me out, but I don't want to use "my time" on it. I need a little direction from her, but I am going to try to limit it to 10 minutes today.

At least you get to see her twice a week and hopefully you can devote your next session just for you!

Talk to you later,
JM

Yeah, JM -- for sure the next one will be about me. She asked me a question yesterday about myself and it started to bother me last night, So, I called her and left a VM. She will either call me back today, or I'm sure we will talk about it tomorrow. Either way, it WILL get addressed.

Thanks for helping me feel like I'm not so selfish on wanting "my time" with my T. I know that all of my relationships relate to what we talk about. I'm glad that I think we are done talking about those for awhile. After all, "it's all about me!" Or it should be 'cause it hasn't been most of my life.

PL

Thanks guys. It is frustrating to see her but I may be secretly happy about it at the same time. Well I don't know if happy is the right word but I'm sure you know what I mean.

PL - I completely understand your feelings about wasting time talking about your son, and I don't agree that it doesn't sound like a very nice mom. It's so hard to find a balance between dealing with a child with issues, and making sure we are healthy so we can continue to parent on. Hopefully Thursday you can be as selfish as you want and just focus on you!

Charlotte - I had to chuckle a little when you were explaining what you were saying and what you were thinking. It's all too familiar when I see my son's T. What I say and what I think are so completely different! You guys do feel like true friends but it may not work out so well in real life! I'm much better at typing than I am at talking. And you guys understand me so much better than anyone I've met in real life. Thank you for letting me know I helped you. It does my heart good. I'm saying a prayer that your 2nd appointment turns out well... keep us posted!

Hi Emerald - I'm not looking forward to my session with my T on Thursday either. Like JM said (she is so smart, isn't she?), take it slow, and if you're not feeling it, it can always wait until a time when you are.

OW

Hello everyone...where are you at?? I guess everyone is anxiously awaiting Transference Tuesday huh?? I know I am...I have had a pretty good week so far...OW how are you doing?...JM are you working over time again...the first of the year is a hard time...for me anyway...we have been doing some remodeling and my house is one more mess...but it will be great we are done. putting in new hardwood floors and re-painting our office and bedroom. This was our christmas present to each other...my hubby and I. maybe it will bring me luck in there you reckon??..haha! things do seem a little better this week, keep you fingers crossed...BTW my new shrink is okay...he just gives me my medications mostly...but he is really nice...but he's not my old Mr. T by no means!!I will talk with you all later, Charlotte

Hey Charlotte, good to hear from you. Everyone's around just in a lot of different threads. Transference hasn't been such a problem lately it seems. Most of us seem to be working on mom's right now.

I feel for you about the remodeling, it can be so disruptive but I'm glad you're looking forward to the changes. And I'm glad things are working out with the new shrink.

AG

Hi Charlotte!

I'm doing really good (posted about it in "I talked to my son's T" thread). I talked to her and it has made things much better. Thanks for asking!

Then my ongoing headache turned into a full-blown migraine yesterday so I'm trying to stay away from the computer as much as possible. Hard for me but computers and migraines really don't mix well!

Glad to hear your week has been good too.

OW

Hi All

Sorry haven't been around since before the holidays - I was sick, my other half was sick etc etc and only back to work now. Still struggling with transference stuff - at the moment I'm so angry and embarrassed and upset over it I want out!! I really bared by soul this week to my T and I just felt he was being a real 'male' about it, you know, detached, analysing...don't know if I can keep doing this to myself. To cap it all off he slammed the door on me as I was leaving - not on purpose I know but I reacted very badly at the time and accused him of not being able to get rid of me fast enough!! I'm now mortified to go back. This is awful stuff, I know you guys know, but does it ever end. I really thought I had made some breakthroughs and was understanding more and now I'm all over the place again.

Question for you all - have any of you not told your significant other that you're in counselling?

I didn't because I don't think he will understand and now I don't know how to...
Lady

LoS

I can really identify with some of what you are saying. The transference thing is just so confusing and painful to me. Just recently I really bared my all about how I felt about my T. She accepted it very positively and she knows I am totally dependent on her. I thought that would help to get rid of the difficult feelings, and it did for a few days. But then something happened that triggered those feelings again and I am fighting so hard to keep them at bay. I feel like I'm going to have to tell her all of it all over again to give myself some peace. This frightens me.

Your T probably didn't react the way you hoped he would, but don't give up on it. And try not to be embarrassed, even though I know that is an emotion we all have trouble with. He needs to hear what your feelings are about his reaction to you. My T has apologized before when she realized that she did not handle something in a way that made sense to me.

About the significant other - my husband knows that I go to therapy. Sometimes, not often, I tell him some of the things we talk about. But, I have been going 2X's a week for a few months and I have not told him that. One obvious reason is the $, but the other is that I don't think he would understand why. I also could never explain the transference feelings to him. I hardly understand them myself and I feel a little embarrassed that I need her more than I seem to need him at the moment.

I'm sure that you have made some changes in yourself since you started therapy. You may think these are small, but maybe your husband has noticed. You might start out with that conversation and when you feel comfortable, tell him how you have been able to do this. I don't know if this will work for you, just an idea. My best wishes for you on all this.

PL

Hi Lady... I felt I had to reply here because I can relate on two levels. The first is that I have not told my dh that I am in therapy. I have a few reasons. First because he does not really believe in therapy and thinks it's pretty much a lot of just talking and BS. The other is that I want this for myself. I want to be able to have this time for ME and I don't want anyone clouding it or ruining it for me like I know he would. He would want to know everything I told my T and if I didn't tell him he would start acting all weird on me. Or he would judge me in some way for going. And I would feel that I HAD to tell him what I talked about. Now that I'm in therapy, it would be even harder to admit because I am also now so lost in transference with my T. This is hard enough to keep to myself without him knowing about therapy. Yes, it's a tangled web but I know that I am less inhibited with my T because no one really knows that I see him.

Now...I had a session where I needed to make a decision about something and was struggling so I brought it to my T. I needed to talk about my feelings and emotions related to this decision and he seemed to just want to write things down, make lists and act all analytical and detached about it. I kept trying to talk about emotions and he was writing away and being pragmatic. His behavior infuriated me and after awhile I just shut down. He was not getting it and I just gave up instead of calling him on it. I stewed about it all day and that night wrote him a scathing email accusing him of all sorts of (unfair) things.

He emailed me back totally shocked at what I had written and told me I should come in to talk to him about it the next day because he had no idea I was so upset. When I saw him he was visibly concerned and confused by what had happened. I accused him of acting like a "male" and not understanding or not even trying to see what I needed. He said I should have stopped him and told him what I needed from him. Of course by this time I was also feeling sheepish because I had realized that my anger over this was coming from the past and I was not really angry with him but with how some adults in the past had ignored and/or betrayed my needs at the time.

So what I'm saying is that because of that what happened during that session when I felt he was being too analytical and practical we had a very deep, wonderful, clearing the air, very connected session which set the stage for a lot of exploring of other issues. So it all turned out really well. The key is to be courageous enough to look inside yourself to see why you had that reaction and also to take what you learn back to your T and discuss it openly and honestly. Despite my transference love for my T I seem to have no reservations about confronting him on things that bother me. I would guess this is a good thing because I don't let my feelings for him interfere with the therapy we need to do. And he is always very responsive and accommodating to me. And he never seems to hold a grudge LOL. Of course, he is not supposed to either!

On a funny side note... the other day we were talking and he was trying to keep everything I was saying straight and he smiled at me and said "well I would have written it all down except that I don't dare pick up my pad any more" I had to laugh at that because I knew what he was referring to. I told him that I'm over that now and he could feel free to jot stuff down whenever he needs to... but that if I feel upset by it I will just tell him.

Just thought I'd share.

TN

TN and PL

Thank you both for replying - I feel much relieved on both counts....

Lady

LoS,
It's good to hear from you, it's been awhile and I was getting a little worried about you. Glad you're finally feeling better.

quote:

This is awful stuff, I know you guys know, but does it ever end. I really thought I had made some breakthroughs and was understanding more and now I'm all over the place again.

Just because you're all over the place again, doesn't mean that the breakthroughs and understandings didn't happen. The nature of this work is that you need to experience something new over and over again in order to heal, so sometimes it feels like you're stuck when you're really not. I really do think it eventually ends, but it's slow going. I just had an amazing, wonderful appt with my T (see Gift Giving) and now I am experiencing serious snapback. I really thought I had worked through all the variations but getting so close is making me want to run again. Todays' flavor is "you can't have everything you want so get out now before it gets even more painful." Every time I really connect with him, I enjoy it for a day or so, then the feeling of bereft longing for what I cannot have and know will never be rises up. And I feel like a spoiled, greedy child who will never have enough. And then I realize that I'm going to have to discuss it with my T (if we can EVER reschedule, but that's a bitter story for another day. ) and just how many times do I have to go over this?

On the other hand, (of course, there is one) writing the thank you note for my T really let me see how far I've come and how much I've changed since seeing him. And we've been able to do that despite me experiencing such encompassing, intense feelings for him. And the stretchs of feeling secure and crazy don't come as often or last as long. So I do think there's hope, but when you're going through it, it's so overwhelming and feels like forever.

My husband does know about therapy because we also see my T together for marital counseling. He also knows about the transference. The day after I told my T I was attracted to him, I told my husband. It just felt REALLY wrong to go into a couples session knowing how I felt about our T, knowing that my T knew and my poor husband would be the only one in the room who didn't know. He was really good about it, still is, much better than I would be I think. But I think that he really trusts both me and my T that nothing's going to happen. He's been in therapy also (not for as long a stretches as I have) so he mainly gets it. At least he does now, he used to not be good about it. But I must admit, I think he's a rare man in the amount of patience he has with me when I'm dealing with my stuff.

AG

quote:

On the other hand, (of course, there is one) writing the thank you note for my T really let me see how far I've come and how much I've changed since seeing him. And we've been able to do that despite me experiencing such encompassing, intense feelings for him. And the stretchs of feeling secure and crazy don't come as often or last as long.

AG

This is so true. It is hard to remember this during the rough times, but it does help to get me through them. All the letters that I have sent to my T are on my computer, so when I am feeling really low (and the VM's don't get me through it,) I can go back and read them. It is interesting to me to see the progress I've made when reading the ones I wrote a while ago.

I also understand the "just how many times do I have to go over this." Sometimes I feel like I've gone over stuff so much that she must be bored with it, but I need the reassurance. That seems to be what eventually makes it work.

PL

Hello Guys,
I guess this is where I will jump back in the forum at...I know some of you know where I have been with my transference in the past...PL and LS...Thank God your T's understand you and you can confront them....When I confronted my Old Mr. T a couple months ago...He dismissed me at the next session...See Transference I (pg 9 posts 38, pg 12 post 37 to get the pre story) and Transference II pg 1 post 38 for the big blow up) I t was the biggest slap in the face I ever expereinced...but to beat it all...I can never tell my husband any of it...he would probably leave me....he is very old school...and very jealous...(of all 230 pounds of blubbering old fat I carry around!! lol) I really truley hated him for many weeks...but guess what?? I see another female T and I also see him every week in the office (just passing by) but he always speaks to me...and I speak to him...it gets easier every week...I have made great strides with Ms. T...I know Mr. T is reading my work and keeping tabs on me and she told me 3 weeks ago that he was so proud of the success I was making... but guess again...I still love that man...guess I always will..but I see myself beginning to break away and although I see him every week and my heart flutters...it flutters because I know he sees improvement in me...and I know he did the right thing...to help me get better...but I still hate him for it...in a loving way!! I know that he is there, not seeing me...but seeing me...does that make sense?
And the most amazing thing is the people on this forum were there for me from the first moment I signed on!!! They helped me thru it and still help me thru crap when it piles up!!...They help me many times just talking to others..I take their words and put it in my own situation...hang tight...and posts your every need for information...somebody here has what you need to hear...it's just one of God's many blessings that he gives us!!
Oh my gosh JM....I just did it...remember the conversation we had about the transference rd? First you go down it, then you can lead others...thanks all my pals...It's getting easier for old Charlotte....and it ain't getting easier too!!!!!...you just have to be in the transference club to understand that one...LOL....
Talk to you all later...C.

Hi Charlotte,
Glad to hear things are still going ok for you on your bumpy journey along "Transference Road." (Why does that sound like such a good title for a book?-Perhaps I just need some sleep.) I am happy that it's getting easier when you run into Mr. T and that things are working so well with Ms. T. Of course you still love that man, he continues to show great care and concern for you. I think it's natural for you to hold onto some of those feelings for a while and even get flutters when you see him. It'll take time, but all of that will continue to ease up. Meanwhile your strength and fortitude are an asset to our community.

And Charlotte, I am sure that there are others who are quietly lurking on the side lines of this forum who read your posts and sadly share your horrifying experiences but are inspired by your courage and determination too.

Thanks for keeping us updated on you progress and to know that even the heartaches of heartaches does not have to mean the end of it. You have bravely conquered the agonizing pain that all of us fear and dread most and you have shown that there is even a bright hope illuminating from the other side. Thank you for sharing this with us.
JM

Hey everyone,

I came across an interesting theory about transference today on a discussion board about transference and the show "In Treatment." The poster said:

quote:

in therapy, i suggest the transference occurs when the patient begins to fall in love with the self that has been repressed and sees that self mirrored in the therapist.

if you accept that concept, isn't it easy to see that taking oneself to therapy is an act of self love?

when the therapy works, the person is better able to love and accept self and learns how to create change for the better. the therapist/facilitator is the guide and through the good therapist's eyes, a person can begin to see self in a more loving, less frightening way.

For me, this hit home. In the very early stages of my situation with Dr. X, there was a song that I identified with this situation and the lyrics said: "I saw it/something in your eyes/I wanted it for myself." I always read it as wanting him for myself but what I "saw" in those early days was compassion. Compassion for ME. I have spent a lifetime being so hard on myself, reducing my own experiences, tearing myself down, and not being completely forthcoming. He has done none of those things. He has treated me with understanding, validated my experiences, shown compassion, caring and honesty, even when it was clearly counter-transferential and slightly blurred the boundary lines. He has shown me a human love that I desperately want to give myself. Because of seeing these qualities in him as a positive instead of a sign of weakness, I have been able to help myself by being more forthcoming about myself, of not reducing my own experiences down to nothing, of giving myself the self-compassion that I have been in need of. In a way, he is a mirror.

SG

WOW! SG

Thanks for sharing this. It really gives me a lot of food for thought, and makes so much sense. I think I might start looking at this transference in a much different way, and therefore suffer much less pain.

PL

Thank you, SG. Your post was really beautiful and insightful. Like, PL, it has given me a lot of new stuff to think about.

SG,
That is so true. My T and I spent a lot of time when I first started working with him talking about mirroring. That humans are incapable of knowing themselves outside of being in a relationship. But that not having a secure attachement is like looking in a mirror and getting no reflection, so how do you know who you are? And if you can't know that, how could you possibly appreciate who you are?

But I never made the leap to seeing my feelings for my T as a reflection of my feelings about myself. Going to be noodling on that one for awhile. Although, it is a cheering thought because if it's true, I REALLY REALLY like myself. Thanks for the insight.

AG

quote:

have any of you not told your significant other that you're in counselling

LADY:
I did not tell my husband until after my first visit(I had called and scheduled then cancelled many times before this first actaul appointment, too). Then I just decided to go ahead because I was in such bad shape at the time. I guess I didn't really care one way or the other at the time what he would think or say. He reacted much better than I thought he would. We were not doing great in our marriage at th time either. My counseling actually helped our marriage in that it helped me figure out some things I was afraid of and why I was acting the ways was towards my husband at times. Actually I would go so far as to say it even SAVED my marriage, even though my husband did not go with me.
I don't know your situation at all, but maybe you should ask your counselor how to approach the subject with your partner. Good luck whatever you decide to do. Take care of YOU!!

SP:
Your post was SOOOO interesting! Like the others have written, it is alot to think about, but I'm thinking there's alot of truth to it!! Thanks for posting.

SG,
You know I really believe this is true. I think the ultimate goal of therapy is to learn to love ourselves and mirroring that through our T's reaction to us (and our needs)is one way we achieve that. An infant learns its value and place in this world through the response of it's primary attachment figure. By feeling and experiencing being loved they learn to love (themselves). When that doesn't happen properly we get a second chance in therapy through developing a deep attachment to our therapist.

I hate to repeate myself, but I made a remark to my T about how much I love being with her in session and her response was because it was all about me there and that I am learning to enjoy being around myself. In therapy it is all about us. What we enjoy about being with our T is not because we are learning anything about them, but that we are learning so much about ourselves, our belonging and place in this world, and how our tragedies do not define us, but that we are important and worthwhile, and lovable despite what we have suffered.

Thanks for sharing SG. This is so important.
JM

Hi All

This is really interesting stuff especially the self-love reflection idea.

I met with my T yesterday. I'm still p"*sed with him. We've been so close and I'm not getting that from him now and I don't know if he is pulling away, if I'm pulling away or if it's just the process. He's still there for me but not in the same way. I don't see the compassion in his eyes or hear it in his voice - I don't experience him in the same way but I know he's there for me. I'm in a complete mess about it all. I'm crying a lot - not overly distressed or anything but I seem to be crying every time I'm on my own. It's like I'm grieving or am heartbroken. I know from your posts that some of you have experienced these emotions. I feel I'm in the grip of something and I want to go on and I want to stop at the same time.

He brought up the question of whether or not I was paying attention to the way I dress when I'm meeting him and I just bounced it right back and denied that there was anything in it, that I was usually dressed for work when I met him at the end of the day. I don't feel able to acknowledge that he might have something there....

I'm also tempted to make something up, I think to get his attention...have any of you ever experienced that? It's so childish and I'm having to work really hard not to do it. Like a friend of mine was held up at knifepoint and at every session since I've been tempted to pretend it was me.

I haven't told him this and I imagine you're all (well a few of the usual suspects anyway AG, JM, PL...) going to say I should.

I tell ya it's not gettin any easier!
Lady

(((Lady)))
As one of your aforementioned usual suspects I just want to say that I understand your fears, your needing attention and thinking that you are losing him or that he is pulling away and that you might be inclined to make something up to hold onto him or to regain what you feel you've lost, is completely understandable to me. When I tell you that IS childish please understand that is completely acceptable and age appropriate with where you are at in therapy. Outside of therapy you are I am just as certain, a responsible, level headed adult taking care of many responsiblities. In therapy we have room to nurture and give voice to our inner child that craves the sort of attention you mention, as well as love and reassurance we need and that's ok.

I can't say for sure, but most likely you are projecting your T pulling away when it is likey you doing so as we tend to want to run from danger and getting close to our T's feels dangerous sometimes because trusting and being close to someone in the past often meant danger and getting hurt. So when you hit a speed bump even or should I say especially, in the relationship with your T a very primitive response takes over (in the amygdala)that tells you to run away and we do this w/o even noticing most of the time thinking and believing that it is others who are pulling away from us. This is something my T has painfully tried to pound into my head over the years. The fact that you question it and recognize that it is "possibly you" is actually a very big leap in your awareness of it and progress. So hopefully this normalizs what you are feeling and would make it easier for you to approach your T about anything you feel you need to talk about.

Just so you know I am painfully torn right now with a decision to share something with my T too. So I still experience the painful emotions, the grief, and heartbreak (and very currently mind you) that we feel in this relationship that reflects from so many relationships and experiences in the span of our lifetime and the fear of losing someone so significant that it feels like our life force will just expire. Perhaps you have a better handle on this than I do right now, but I do want you to know that what you are feeling is not uncommon or unique to yourself.

I have a thought about what he said about the way you dress when meeting him. I think of it this way, when you notice a concern about a close friend or someone you care about you are more inclined to feel free to express that to them than you would a stranger or an acquaintence. Your T being willing to broach a typically sensitive subject and bring this to your attention reveals the level of confidence and trust that he feels you have both reached in your relationship. I don't know it is just a thought, but I can also relate to your initial defensiveness. I know I get that way with my T a lot. I don't know why the woman puts up with me, really.

So if you tell your T about being tempted to make things up to get his attention how do you think he's going to react? My guess is he's going to help you get to the source of that temptation and why you feel a need to do that and even help you to accept that part of you and to lessen the need to feel like you have to continue to do that. That sounds like a good place to go to me.

I know that right now this is not getting any easier. But it always proves to be worth it after we unravel and mend those broken areas. There just seems to be a lot broken sometimes, huh?

Hang in there, we'll make it.
JM

Sometimes when I start feeling better and things in my life are going well I start to panic because I'm afraid my T will get bored with me and/or I won't need to see her anymore.

Other times, when the crap is all hitting the fan and I am a royal mess, I wonder if there is anything at all about me or my situation that is particularly interesting or challenging to my T, or am I just another one in a long line of clients that say the same stuff to her over and over again day after day. I guess I want to be special even if being special means that I am the worst case of whatever she has ever seen.

I guess that is what it boils down to: I desperately want to feel like I am interesting, unique and special to my T whether it is for something good or bad. Do I stand out? Does she think of me during the week? It is all an attempt to balance out how special she is to me and how much I think about her. I'm trying to get on even ground with her and diffuse the power differential some. (This whole last paragraph is something I just thought of while writing this post. Thanks Lady and JM for that bit of inspiration!)

quote:

When I tell you that IS childish please understand that is completely acceptable and age appropriate with where you are at in therapy. Outside of therapy you are I am just as certain, a responsible, level headed adult taking care of many responsiblities. In therapy we have room to nurture and give voice to our inner child that craves the sort of attention you mention, as well as love and reassurance we need and that's ok.

LoS

What JM says here is so important. I have struggled so hard with this and I still do. It just made no sense to me that I should have these childish feelings as I'm a grown adult and these are inappropriate to me. My T has explained many times that it is appropriate in therapy because these are the feelings that did not get addressed or validated or whatever when I was a child and I need to experience them now in order to work through them. It is scary and painful, but little by little I think I will get through them. I also told my T that I thought I was making things up just to get her attention. In my mind, I still have that fear that if I get better, she won't want to waste her time with me anymore. Again, all of this relates to my childhood where my feelings weren't taken seriously or validated.

Interesting that your T asked you about what you wear. I never gave this much thought before, but I ALWAYS plan what I put on for work on the days I have therapy. It is important to me that I look good for her. When you figure out what this means, let me know.

This whole relationship with our T's can be so overwhelming, painful and loving. I guess for me, it just depends on what is going on at the moment as to which emotion I am feeling. Right now I'm loving her with all my heart as she is really supporting me through some pretty difficult stuff, but who knows what next week will bring. As difficult and painful as it is to tell some things to our T's, it really does bring relief afterwards. (says the biggest chicken of the year!)

PL

quote:

I desperately want to feel like I am interesting, unique and special to my T whether it is for something good or bad. Do I stand out? Does she think of me during the week? It is all an attempt to balance out how special she is to me and how much I think about her.

Those are good questions River, have you considered coming right out and asking her? You may be pleasantly surprised at her answers.

My T actually mentioned that there are "idiosyncracies" to our relationship this week. This may be a leap, but I take what I can get and translate that to mean special. eheh. "Idiosyncracies! She said we have idiosyncracies, gosh!" *blush* She has also told me that each of her clients enter her mind outside of therapy at different times including me. And that it's never "out of sight out of mind" kind of deal for her. It's sort of like someone who has more than one child (which you and I share the fact of having an only child, but can relate to anyway I think)They can love all their children equally while finding room for specialties in each of their relationships.

Thanks HB

Actually, I was thinking that I am not really coping well with what is going on at the moment, and feeling sorry for myself today. But, you made me rethink this and to tell you the truth, with the enormity of what I'm dealing with right now, I AM coping. At least coping better than I have in the past and that is a step in the right direction. It doesn't mean the problem has gone away by any means, but looking at this in a different way is helping me to pull myself out of today's depression I am so glad I joined this forum. Everyone here has given me so much and made me feel as if there is a light somewhere at the end of this very long tunnel.

quote:

I guess there is a huge difference for me between struggling and not coping. A good struggle is a bit like going to gym, you use new muscles and it is sore but you know the pain is strengthening you and making you stronger.

HB

Great analogy. I agree and I'll try to keep that picture in my mind today. I called my T last night because the downward spiral was beginning and I woke up with it too. She will call me sometime today and at least I know I can have a conversation with her without so much depression. For now, I'm hanging in a linear place and hoping I will begin to spiral up rather than down soon.

PL

quote:

I guess there is a huge difference for me between struggling and not coping. A good struggle is a bit like going to gym, you use new muscles and it is sore but you know the pain is strengthening you and making you stronger.

HB,
I love this analogy too. It speaks to my inner athlete that is lost in there somewhere struggling to find her way out again.

PL,

I hope you are able to use that spiral in an upward direction too. I never considered it that way as if we might even have a choice to use the momentum to carry us in a centrifugal direction. I just called my T too hoping she will be able to give me a little pep talk since I lack the motivation myself.

I am sorry you are going through such a difficult time too PL. Whatever this stuff is that you are dealing with is certainly not deserved and if sweetness were an inability to hurt you'd never have to worry about it. You are as brave and strong in your coping as HB pointed out. I hope your T call leaves you feeling revived and content.
JM

quote:

I hope your T call leaves you feeling revived and content.

Thanks JM

She just called. She doesn't usually work on Fridays and does personal stuff, but it really makes me feel good that she made the time to call me. It was a really good conversation and she really did lift my spirits and helped me to see things in a different way. She asked me what I was going to do this weekend to soothe myself. I said I didn't know because today was pretty much of a waste. She told me that I should go to dinner and a movie tonight with my husband to get my mind off of this situation. Wish she had asked me to go to a movie with her!! Ok, sorry I digressed.

Well anyway, I feel so much better at the moment. She knows me better than I know myself, and seems to always know just the right thing to say to help me out.

Thanks JM and HB for all your support. the downward spiral has been thwarted for now. Let's see how long it takes me to think something else up.

PL

quote:

She doesn't usually work on Fridays and does personal stuff, but it really makes me feel good that she made the time to call me. It was a really good conversation and she really did lift my spirits and helped me to see things in a different way. She asked me what I was going to do this weekend to soothe myself. I said I didn't know because today was pretty much of a waste.

It isn't enough that it seems like we live parallel lives PL, but our T's do too? That or she is the same T. I wont ask where you live or where your T works. Only thing though, my T wouldn't suggest my husband and I go to dinner and a movie. Not that anything is wrong with that, I just don't see that coming from my T. Nor would she ask me to go either. My T also asked me about what I have done to self-soothe and suggested my recording as we already discussed in someone else's topic. Ssshh!
Glad you thwarted that spiral!
JM

Yeah JM, it is funny how much we seem to have in common. The reason she suggested the dinner and movie is because I really need to connect better emotionally with my husband. My shield hides me from everyone. Also, my situation at this time involves our son and she tells me all the time not to let our son's issues come between my husband and me. For the real self-soothing, I am doing mindfullness meditation. I have just started taking a class and it will go for the next 7 weeks. I should be really mellow or really mindless (OOPS!) mindful, by the end of this.

PL

quote:

I'm also tempted to make something up, I think to get his attention...have any of you ever experienced that? It's so childish and I'm having to work really hard not to do it. Like a friend of mine was held up at knifepoint and at every session since I've been tempted to pretend it was me.

HELLO LOS,
I GUESS THERE ISN'T REALLY ANY ONE OF US THAT HASN'T PLOTED OR EVEN FUDGED AN ISSUE WITH OUR T'S OR OUR HUSBANDS, OR FRIENDS, ETC. WHEN WE FEEL LIKE THERE IS AN ABSOLUTE NEED FOR SOME ONE ON ONE ATTENTION. GUESS WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY IS...YES, WE ALL THINK UP CHILDISH THINGS SOMETIMES...BUT TRUST ME THERE IS PLENTY OF THINGS THAT RISE UP IN SESSION MOST OF THE TIME THAT KEEP US TIED UP...I THINK MOST OF THE TIME THE CHILDISH IDEAS JUST PASS THRU YOUR MIND WHEN YOU GET BORED WITH THE CURRENT ISSUES..AND THAT IS FINE TOO..WE ALL HAVE ISSUES WITH OUR MINDS ANYWAY RUNNING AMUCK SOMETIMES...I MEAN COME ON GUYS...WE DIDN'T BUY OUR TRANSFERENCE AT WALMART!! LOL!! I DO BELIEVE IT ALL STARTED IN THE MIND RIGHT?? BUT WHAT I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT IF YOU FEEL THAT STRONGLY ABOUT DOING IT....TELL YOUR T THAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT...AND SHE WILL WORK YOU THRU IT...I CAN TELL MY NEW MS. T THINGS LIKE THAT THAT PASS THRU MY MIND..AND WE PROCESS IT AND GUESS WHAT...IT IS ALWAYS SOMETHING I NEEDED TO GET OUT IN THE OPEN ANYWAY!!
IF I HAD THOUGHT FOR A MOMENT I COULD HAVE TALKED MY OLD MR T OUT OF DISMISSING ME....THERE IS NO TELLING WHAT I WOULD HAVE SAID..IF I THOUGHT I COULD HAVE STAYED IN JUST ONE MORE SESSION WITH HIM...I WOULD HAVE TOLD HIM I SAW HIS WIFE OUT TO DINNER WITH HIS ATTORNEY...OR BROTHER, OR DOCTOR, OR HIS DADDY .....I WAS SO DESPERATE TO KEEP HIM...I WOULD HAVE THREATENED TO JUMP OUT OF HIS 7TH STORY OFFICE WINDOW...BUT THAT WOULD HAVE ONLY GOTTEN ME IN LOCKDOWN!! ....I ALMOST BEGGED HIM ON MY KNEES TO GIVE ME ANOTHER CHANCE...HE TOLD ME "NO!!!..THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD....I'M NOT BACKING DOWN...AND I WILL NOT CHANGE MY MIND!" YES, I HATED HIS GUTS ...YOU ALL KNOW THE STORY...SO DON'T FEEL SILLY OR ALONE...WE HAVE HAD THE SAME THOUGHTS I'M SURE...

ALSO FOR THE DRESSING FOR SESSION THING...YOU BETTER BELIEVE I DRESS THE PART EVERY TUESDAY...I GO RIGHT AFTER WORK...I TAKE MY MAKEUP, AND ACCESSORIES...SOMETIMES A WHOLE OTHER OUTFIT IN MY BAG...FIRST I WAS DOING IT BECAUSE OF THE TRANSFERENCE IN SESSION WITH HIM OF COURSE BUT NOW I DO IT...BECAUSE OF THE TRANSFERENCE SESSION OUT OF HIS OFFICE...BUT HE STILL SEES ME EVERY WEEK!!!...I EITHER WANT HIM TO SEE ME GETTING BETTER AND COPING WELL (BECAUSE I AM )...OR SHOWING HIM WHAT HE'S MISSING!!! ...(OKAY I MAY REGRESS EVERY NOW & THEN SO WHAT)...EITHER WAY....IT MAKES ME...CHARLOTTE FEEL BETTER TO LOOK MY ABSOLUTE BEST!! AND THAT IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT RIGHT?? FEELING OUR BEST AND MOVING PAST THIS PART OF OUR LIVES?...STICK IT OUT GUYS...WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT....EVEN IF SOMETIMES, WE MAY HAVE TO FAKE IT!! HAHA!! TALK TO YOU SOON, C.

Hi! I have been reading posts on this site for the last several weeks.. It has been very helpful to me. I decided to join!

Hi I'm just me (IJM),
Welcome to the forums, I'm glad you decided to post and introduce yourself and I'm looking forward to getting to know you.

AG

Hi IJM!

Welcome!

OW

Hi IJM, I wanted to make sure to add myself to your list of welcomes. That would be odd if I didn't since we share such a similar name.
JM

Hi IJM

It's always nice to get to know someone new. Hope you keep posting.

PL

Hi IJM,
Glad to have you on board! Welcome to the forum, please feel free to join in our discussions and hope you keep posting!
Hello guys...Just checking in right quick...I've been under the weather this week...headaches again...gotta go have more tests done next week...did not go to my session this week, and I really have missed it. I felt so bad Tuesday, (these headaches are terrible) but now I feel like my whole week is screwed up because I didn't go...gotta run...I should go lay down before I get dizzy again and sick on my stomach...
Yalk to you later, C

BUT WHAT I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT IF YOU FEEL THAT STRONGLY ABOUT DOING IT....TELL YOUR T THAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT...AND SHE WILL WORK YOU THRU IT...

Well guys - I told him and of course he didn't bat an eyelid!! I don't think I'd have felt bound to do it though if I hadn't spoken to you guys first. It really helps to have people around who do not think you are losing it!! If you haven't been through this stuff you really do not know what it's like. I don't even know if our T's know what it's like - the agony, the longing, the pain, the embarassemnt, the fear, the lying awake, the tears...sound familiar.

Anyway, I told him and told him how angry I am with him that he didn't warn me this was coming (ie all the attachment stuff) and that I felt I was operating with one and tied behind my back where he didn't. Turns out he didn't necessarily see it coming either and what I'm going through is 'rare' and 'courageous' and it's a question of holding my (our!)nerve.

Lady

Check this out guys - patterns in transference - I can identify with at least 4 of them!!

http://www.earley.org/Patterns/transference_and_countertransfer.htm
L

LOS,

That is so awesome you told your T! I'm glad that the support you got here helped you to do that, but be very proud of yourself. It's a terrifying thing to do and you were very brave to open up like that. And I'm really glad he responded so well. I love the way he described it "a question of holding my nerve" that's really perfect. And its good to hear from you!!

AG

Hello everyone! I'm new here, effective today. I have been googling 'transference' for weeks. I can barely stand myself with all of the obsessive thinking I've been doing, only to find out this is totally NORMAL! I can't thank all of you enough for all these posts, which I've been reading for hours and hours. I really thought I was losing my marbles.
I've been with my male therapist (age 39) for a year, I've had 27 visits, I'm a female age 33.
WOW do I have a crush. Huge, ridiculous. I'm now starting to experience thinking of him 20x a day, wondering if he likes certain songs/foods/locations. He's very married with 3 adorable children. He's never been inappropriate, ever.

The problem being is that we've never discussed transference, and I've done everything in my power to 'pretend' I'm not affected by him, or that I care or miss him or need him. I only have 4 sessions left (insurance) and I NEED to admit this, lay it on the table and unload. I'm so scared, I tried the past 3 sessions and we just had our normal chatty great time. I can't say it. I'm so ashamed.
SO, I'm going to write it. I've cut and pasted lots of good info to give me a base of what to say.
I guess my question here is....how do you bring it up? What do you say? Do any of you have anything pre-written that might help me fess up?
Thanks so much.

quote:

I really thought I was losing my marbles.

traveluvr

Welcome to the "lost marbles" club. Just keep in mind, that everything you have just said rings true for me and probably most everybody else here. Finding out that this is normal was a big epiphany for me too.

Writing it out was a huge help for me, as it gave me time to really think of what I wanted to say, and how to say it. And yes, I was shaking like a leaf when I told her. Seriously though, your T has probably been waiting for you to bring this up, and if he is a good T, he will accept it and help you to understand it. For me, it took a gigantic weight off my shoulders. Although, I'm real good at adding more stuff to weigh me down.

I'm glad you joined us, and I look forward to more posts from you. Let us know how it is going.

PL

Hi travelluvr! Welcome to the forum.

Chicken that I am I couldn't simply blurt out my feelings for my T out of the blue and then just sit there waiting for her reaction. For me, I find it easier to bring up something I have trouble talking about if I have an angle. Like you, I spent a lot of time trying to find out if other people were as infatuated with their T's as I am and I came across ShrinkLady's article and this forum which gave me an actual technical term for what I was feeling: "transference." Until I had that word I had no idea that it was so common and that a lot T's know how to work with it in ways that will help the work happen. So, now I had my angle and in my next session I brought up the whole thing by simply, innocently asking her what transference was? Of course, like most red-blooded T's she had to ask me first why I was asking and what I knew about it already. For me, being able to use a technical term to help me contain my intense personal feelings removed me just enough that I was able to talk about it. Kind of like talking about yourself in 3rd person. That really, really helps me get stuff out. I have even used "hypothetical situations" to get stuff out there. You can also start off small - no need to throw the whole enchilada out there all at once. Admit to something less threatening first and work your way up to the harder stuff. I guess it depends on whether or not you are a dive right in the pool kind of person or more the take one step at a time so you can acclimate to the cold water bit by bit. I am definitely more of the second kind of person.

Welcome travelluvr. I can totally understand how you feel and how difficult and scary it is to bring up transference with your T. I had transference feelings for my T for around 8 months before I found the courage to talk to him about it. Actually, I was kind of forced to address it because I caught on that he was getting suspicious about my feelings for him. I had written a poem that I read to him that I felt was about my therapy journey but he took it as something more personal/romantic. This caused him to pull away from me and that upset me and I was afraid I ruined the relationship or that he would want to terminate me. And so I decided to confront him about it.

I brought it up by saying that there was an elephant in the room with us and if we don't talk about it then I would have to start bringing peanuts to feed him And my T said he didn't know there was an elephant and I said...he is very quiet but he's been here a long time. Then he said "well tell me about him" and I just said that I had been reading about transference and that I understood there were all different kinds, including negative transference. And I needed to tell him that I had feelings for him that were sometimes parental and sometimes very warm and affectionate (I chickened out on the word LOVE but I think he caught the idea LOL). And it turns out that I actually knew more than he did about erotic transference and I ended up lending him my book In Session by Deborah Lott (which I recommend you read to help you understand more about it). And so we talked about how I wanted to address this because I didn't want my unspoken feelings to cloud our therapy or cause it to breakdown in any way. I also assured him that I could contain my feelings and that I needed him to be my therapist more than I needed him to be anything else in my life and so I had no "agenda" to get him. And this was true. I need him as my T and this also allowed me to tell him how I feel and be honest without sounding like I was ready to seduce him. We talked about transference once or twice after that. Turns out I was his first case of transference and he got defensive because he was unprepared or because he just didn't know how to handle it. He has been pretty good about it since then. What happened is that we realized that aside from the transference feelings...he became my attachment figure and my secure base. I have an unsecure attachment from childhood and somehow because of the care and understanding that he provided me he became the caregiver I never had. So we have been focused more on his role as my secure base more than my transference.

If you are feeling uneasy about just talking about it you could write something down and then just go in and read it to him. Do it immediately when you walk in the door. Tell him you have something to discuss that is very difficult for you and you are afraid and need his help and understanding. The other option is to email him (if this is allowed) and give him a heads up and tell HIM to bring up the topic when you get there.

I wish you the best with this. It takes courage and strength to address this but if your T is a good one he will be able to handle it with kindness and empathy. I do think it's important that you do this soon as you don't have very many session left to process this. Is there any possibility that he could get your insurance company to grant you more sessions?

In any event, we are here to help and support you through this. This is a wonderful place to come for comfort and information. I'm glad that you found it.

True North

Welcome to the forum traveluvr!!
Glad to have you aboard our "Transference Train" Hope you have gotten as much good advice from my friends as I have! If it was me in your situation.....I would suggest just telling him that "Since I only have 4 sessions left there is something I need to discuss with you because I don't know how I'm going to handle it if I don't!" It may even be cause for him to get an extension on your sessions. I'm not sure, but it is worth a try. It may seem that it doesn't bother you now...but when you don't see him every week....look out...it's gonna hit you hard...Don't be afraid...discuss it straight out...chances are he already knows!!!...maybe there are others on the forum that have other suggestions...I know I was sorta in the same boat a few months ago...it didn't turn out like I wanted...but it was the best thing that could have happened...talk to you soon...and keep posting...we all are here to help each other!!
Talk to you later...C

Wow! The prompt responses are great. I'm not the only one home on a Friday night obsessing about obsessing ha ha!
I went through this back in July, my insurance stopped my sessions, and I acted all 'cool' at our last session, not knowing if I'd see him again. I bawled for days afterwards.
I could probably weasel another 5 sessions ($150/hr), however, I think I need to end this relationship. As much as I want to cling to him for dear life, I am concerned that its really unhealthy.
I loved the elephant/throwing peanuts at him analogy. I may use that line.
Yes, I think I need to just emotionally vomit it all over him. He MUST know.
We have an unusually close relationship. I do have his personal email, to his blackberry, when I went away for 2 months he asked me to keep in touch to 'see how I was doing'. I even got really drunk and emailed him at 4am a few weeks ago, pages of nonsense, and he never gave me crap about it. So I do realize there is more than a cold clinical thing. But I'm not stupid enough to think more.
I am scared to death about the 'breakup' feelings. The 'ending of the relationship'. He is my reason for being it feels. Every week on Thursdays I see him. It just IS.
I save it all up for him, I pre-plan what I'm going to say, wear, etc.

I love that I'm not alone, seriously. Thanks for the warm welcomes and understanding. My goal next week is to bring it up, first thing.
arg...i need SO much more than an hour!

travelluvr... I'm glad the posts were helpful to you. It's wonderful to have a solid connection with a T because it is truly the relationship that heals. Whatever happens in real life usually gets played out in therapy because therapy is a microcosm of real life.

What caught my eye was you saying that you are afraid the relationship is "unhealthy". I think you feel depending on him is unhealthy because you say you want to cling to him. This is really normal, especially if you have not had the kind of caring and support your T offers in in your childhood. Dependence is not always unhealthy and sometimes one needs to learn how to depend before they can learn to stand on their own. I know because I had this fear in the beginning of my therapy. I have since worked on this with my T and he now allows me to lean on him when I need to. I need to learn to step towards someone when I need something instead of running away or trying to handle everything alone as I was forced to do in childhood.

So perhaps in addition to the transference issue you could bring up your fear of being dependent on him and I would try (with his help) to wrangle some additional visits out of your insurance company because this may take more than 4 sessions to work on.

Please don't hesitate to ask any questions. We are here to help.

TN

True North,
That makes perfect sense too. I am extremely independent, on my own since 18, I'm a single mom, I have a career, and I had a horrid abusive childhood. I've never depended on anyone.
So yes, maybe you are right, I should allow myself to be OK with this.
So many things to discuss with him, why did I wait 27 visits to get real?? I may need some more you are right. However, when my last $$$ ran out he did offer to continue for free if I really needed it.
For the first time in weeks I feel like I'll be able to sleep better tonight, not so wound up about this 'transference' stuff.
Thank-you!

travelluvr... I'm so glad you are feeling better. And I hope you sleep well.

I just want to add... and I don't know you and could be wrong... but perhaps since you had an abusive childhood then perhaps you also have attachment issues as well as the transference. If our caregivers who were supposed to protect us were the ones harming us it causes a child to develop an unsecure attachment which then causes all types of other problems in adulthood...things like depression, anxiety and the inability to trust and the inability to ask for real help when we need it. Moving toward someone and developing an intimate relationship (which is what happens in therapy) seems dangerous to us and we want to run from it or avoid it by keeping things light. Please feel free to disregard the above if it does not seem to apply. I just wanted to put it out there for you to consider.

If you thing this is something you want to explore do a google search on attachment theory or disorganized attachment. And then talk to your T about it.

He seems very willing to work with you and the fact that you have a strong connection is a very good thing and a basic step to real healing. I wish you all the best.

TN

travelluvr -

I wanted to add my welcome too. My transference involved my son's T who sort of became my T for a while. My son was referred to another T so I wasn't able to see her anymore. I talked with her about transference before and really didn't get a chance to "work through it" before our sessions ended.

I've been trying to work on it with a new T but it's been difficult and not at all the same experience as those who get to work through the transference with the object of that transference, if that makes sense.

I still see my son's T on occasion since she works at my son's school, we go to the same monthly parent support group, and we live in a small town. It is very hard to see her but maybe better than not seeing her at all, ever. I was able to talk to her a couple of weeks after our last session and got out a lot of my feelings. It was a great relief and helped some of the really painful feelings go away.

I've never depended on anyone either so it was quite a surprise when I started depending on her so much. And then when she wasn't there anymore, I really fell hard. I can't remember so many extreme emotions ever in my whole life. Thank God I found this board because I thought I was going crazy.

It is good to know you're not alone, you're not crazy, and there are at least a few people who understand what you're going through.

I grew up in a few different abusive households and what True North said is definitely true for me:

quote:

perhaps since you had an abusive childhood then perhaps you also have attachment issues as well as the transference. If our caregivers who were supposed to protect us were the ones harming us it causes a child to develop an unsecure attachment which then causes all types of other problems in adulthood...things like depression, anxiety and the inability to trust and the inability to ask for real help when we need it. Moving toward someone and developing an intimate relationship (which is what happens in therapy) seems dangerous to us and we want to run from it or avoid it by keeping things light.

OW

Again, dead on. I'm going to look up the attachment theory. I've got a 14 year history of depression (dysthymic with major depressive episodes) all tangled in with PTSD, all from my childhood. Nice mix, I know, but my T knows all this, his knows my past, so I'm sure none of this would come as a shock to him. He must realize he's a safe, compassionate 'father-figure' type to me, as well as all the other erotic-transfer stuff. Reading more and more about it, I'm really surprised he hasn't discussed it with me. I almost feel angry about it. He could have given me a heads up!
It's going to be so embarrassing bringing this up.
I woke up at 6:30am thinking about it. I really hope that discussing it with him and working on it makes the anxiety/pain of it end. It's very intense at the moment. I totally had the feeling of 'being in love' with him, but in reading all these articles, I realize now thats impossible. I don't know him, and I never really will.
He's got a PhD, had a fully paid scholarship and top honours, and is a prof at a local university as well. He MUST know where I"m at, which makes it more embarassing b/c I haven't said anything.
ramble ramble......
thanks

quote:

Reading more and more about it, I'm really surprised he hasn't discussed it with me. I almost feel angry about it. He could have given me a heads up!

travelluvr

Wouldn't it be nice if we knew what we were getting into BEFORE we entered therapy? Of course if I knew before, I'm sure I would not have had the guts to start. Avoidance is my middle name.

Not everyone experiences transference. That doesn't mean that those of us who do are freaks. It is just the connection that a person makes with their T. And unless someone does experience it, I think they would have a hard time understanding it. If my T had told me that I was going to "fall in love" with her, I would have been on the first train out of there! How could she be so cocky and righteous to think I would have those kind of feelings for her!!! Well, I do. And it has been a rough road to where I am, and a long road to go.

My T waits for me to bring things up. She doesn't pressure me into things that I am not ready for. That's not to say she doesn't help me get a different perspective on things, or think of things in a different way. She gives me LOTS to think about and gently prods me when she can tell I'm just a little too afraid or nervous to go on. But if she had just blurted out this transference thing, YIKES!

Transference is hard, difficult, painful, embarassing......and normal. It has taken me a long time to get to the "normal" realization. "Starting" to tell your T is the hardest part. I told mine that I knew what I wanted to say, but I didn't know how to say it. She gently helped me through it and guess what, she was so happy that I had finally told her. She was more concerned about how I had suffered so long, waiting to get up the courage to tell her. It isn't the information as much as it is the experience. These are feelings and emotions that were not satisfied when you were a child. Talking about them does not make them go away. You have to experience this with someone else, your T, and have him accept you, and not abandon you and validate those feelings.

I would bet anything that he knows exactly where you are at, and he is patiently waiting for you to bring it up. Good luck, I will be cheering you on and waiting to hear how it goes.

PL

Traveluvr,
OW is so right about the trying to work it out with someone who is not the object of the tranference! I was so upset when my T refered me to another to work out my transference...it was devastating! First I had to spend time getting over that before I could start getting over him!!!..It is getting better though, but I still see him every week in the office...it's almost as if he plans it that way sometimes! I would suggest that you try to tell him and work it out with him....it has to be so much better that way. Good luck at your next session!! I missed my session last week and I feel like it has been a month. I can't wait to get back Tuesday. Yes, I still have very very very strong feelings for my old T...probably always will...but I am making progress and concentrating on my own marriage...let us know how it comes out...LOL..on paper, by mouth, whatever...just get it out!!!...it was the best advice I got from my friends here.
talk to you later, C

Hi Everyone, just wanted to talk about somethin really werid that happened in the last session i had. You all know how i recently told she T that i had wished she was my mother, and we sorted through it a bit. Well the feeling wasnt very strong anymore and was a bit easier to understand. Well i dont know whether to call it countertransference or a slip of the tongue but i was crying and upset and she T was trying to explain stuff to me, When usually she would say my name she called me Sweetie and at first i thought she was trying to be "genuine" whatever that is, but I looked her straight in the eyes as soon as she said it and all i could see was MISTAKE written all over her face. So i threw a pillow at her and told her not to get too personal. The thing is its stirred massive transference again and i cant deal with it cos she is referring me soon. What is She T doing to me??
someone help me make sense of this pls.
kit
Em
also wished it was genuine..

Travelluvr,
Sorry it's taken so long to say welcome, I missed the thread. Not much to add, you've been getting great input from everyone. I'm looking forward to getting to know you, and you've definitely found the right place to find people who understand about transference and attachment issues.

AG

emerald,
I would consider that the "sweetie" was very genuine, that your T absolutely meant it, but the slip was in saying it out loud. Ts are supposed to maintain a certain detachment to be able to help us and part of the boundaries is not being overly affectionate with us to not hold out a promise of a relationship they not they can't fulfill. But they're human, and I think often have very deep feelings for their clients. It may be that in her heart she thinks of you as "sweetie" but realized that she shouldn't have said it out loud, especially to a client struggling with transference, which is why you saw "mistake" all over her face.

If you can, I think you should talk to her about how you felt when she called you that. I know that if my T said something like that, it would be a very big deal for me.

And I understand how difficult it is to have her refer you, my T of 17 years retired three years ago because she decided to go back to school and she was giving up her clinical practice. It was a difficult ending but I will tell you that, even though I was also angry about her leaving, I was also very sure about her love for me. It was difficult for both of us to say goodbye. From where we sit it seems like their decision is about us, but the only thing we have to do with it is to make it more difficult for them to leave.

AG

Em,
Yeah it sounds like your T might have slipped a little with her emotions. Em, I am certain that this is an emotional process for her just as it is for you and if counter-transference is going to occur this would be a prime time for it. And CT is no more a dirty word than transference is. It happens, that is why they get schooled and supervised. BUT, I understand how dizzying it can be to experience such a slip. But one thing about this relationship is that it is repairable. I know you have little time left with your she T, but this does not sound like a terrible breech. You are of course wobbly and insecure because of the termination process. The fact that it stirred massive transference for you again is nothing to be ashamed of, but I am sure you wish you could just part with calmer emotions. But definitley communicate this to her. I think it was a genuine expression. It was a slip, not a violation.

My T slipped not that long ago and did something she is never inclined to do and we talked about it. We are good. She is human, she is fallible, and I am not injured. And trust me T's worry about injuring us when they slip.

I hope this helps bring a little comfort and relief to you. And remember to breathe.

I've been pondering this stuff for days. Emerald, I would be beside myself if my T called me sweetie, mind you, I would love it.

I'm going to post a response to an email I sent my T about 3 weeks ago. I was mad at him for saying something insulting about a friend of mine who is a bit of a porn addict, but also a teacher. He said "I wouldn't want someone like her teaching my kids". I LOST it on him via email and told him how inappropriate it was etc, and how I could easily be 'one of those people' etc. Here is his response. I KNOW I'm reading into it, but damn it was sweet:

OK. Thanks. You’re right – I shouldn’t have said that. And I’m glad you didn’t decide to just soak it up and not tell me. I’m not in a position to judge, at all. I’m sorry. Without getting mushy, I hope it’s clear to you that I think a lot of you, and that hasn’t changed since you first started to tell me stuff. I think the fact that you’re brave enough to recognise the destructiveness of that life for what it is, despite your attraction to it, makes me respect you all the more.

Travelluvr,
I think that is a SWEET response too. How loving and genuine and warm, and yet professional. You deserved that _and_ the apology and he felt comfortable enough to express it that way. It is exactly what it is and it is ok.

He sounds like a wonderful T and I am sure you will save that email for the rest of your life. I would ask to be buried with it.

Just me: You got a good hearty laugh out of me with that one. If I'm still single when my burial time comes, I will make that request in my will. I have numerous other great emails from him as well, just the 'calming me down' ones. None of them were that sweet.
He better not wonder why I have a highschool crush on him, I'm still on the fence about spitting it out on Thursday. I want to but I don't. The fear of changing the dynamics of the relationship forever is huge.
Once its out there,...thats it. Right now I live in denial and perhaps he's more comfortable there too.

I think I only thought about him 47 times today...tomorrow I aim for 43.

If you can get it that low, I beg of you share your secret!