AJB,
I don't know where to start. I see so many crossfires and angles but I can't be certain I have the full disclosure on this. I mean I hear what you are saying about not having this sort of relationship with your T and I can go two ways:
1)Your T is very good at holding back and allowing you to project everything onto him and thereby force you to see and speak to your needs. OR
2) He is not attuned to you and perhaps you need to find a different T who will respond the way you need him/her to. It doesn't always work on the first try.
You need to feel heard.

I hear you still battering a lot of self blame and that tells me you're not done with therapy and
1) Your T knows that too and he is waiting for you to see the need yourself, because you're not going to beleive him that you need therapy. So he may have seemd to coldly let you walk away, but sometimes that is the quickest way to get someone's attention. OR
2) He is not attuned to you.

And maybe he didn't say "Have a nice life" because he knew you'd be back when you were ready. OR....
(I think you get the picture)

As for referring anyone you know to your T...while it is a fabulous gesture to recommend your T I have one rule for myslef because of the feelings you aptly descibed as did someone else a little while ago....
...... I don't share my T with anyone!!!! Not my husband, not my children, not my friends, and certainly NOT my FOO!

AJB,You are not a crazy person, but I understand the feeling that way. And if you are "needy" doesn't that mean you NEED something? You need to get your needs met.

Keep venting though! We need that sometimes.

quote:

i am acting like such a cry baby today i know. and i AM crying, believe me. it hurts so much! i don't even know what hurts!! something just does.

Following the staements you made previously I understand why you are crying, but I think your next statement hits the nail head on...

quote:

a collegue of mine saw him today (per my suggestion) and i am so freaking jealous and upset!!!

She has what you want. (((AJB)))
JM

"Your T is very good at holding back and allowing you to project everything onto him and thereby force you to see and speak to your needs" quote from JUST ME


he once told me (when i was having a slight fit in his office and said "ain't i supposed to be able to tell you anything?!!!):

"yes you are. and i'm supposed to mirror you and allow you to hear how and what you're saying"...

he said it so calmly like i wasn't sitting there having a come-apart!!!

so, does this meann that perhaps he DOES know what he is doing? i mean, i just really don't know. and how could a good therapist just let me walk away knowing i'm not done yet? what if i didn't go back? or what if that's not what happened and i DO go back? that would be awful too....

AJB.. I hear you and I feel your pain. Like JM wisely said... I don't think you are really finished with therapy. Did you and your T have "termination" sessions which made sure you were prepared to terminate and in a good place? Or did you just spring it on him and say today is my last session? Most T's won't ask you to stay because I think it's a conflict of interest. One could say they are doing it to just keep your business. Oh, I have threatened not to return and then I do and my T says "so glad you decided to return" but he will never tell me I need to continue or to ask me to please not end therapy because of this or that....

I do think you still have work to do and you need to see your therapist. You are telling us this in your posts. And to have a need is not a terrible thing. It's human nature. And you probably did not have your needs met as a child and feel ashamed of having them now. But please don't feel that way. My T is trying to get me to acknowledge my needs and to learn to ASK for what I need without feeling guilty and awful and like I'm bothering him. I'm starting to ask but I still feel guilty about it. I'm a work in progress for sure.

About not returning your phone call. Are you sure you made it clear that he needed to call you back? Sometimes they just assume (wrongly) that we called just to say something. One time my T did not answer an email I sent him asking if we were okay and looking for reassurance. 4 days went by with no response. He happened to call me to move my appt time and I fell apart on the phone telling him that I was sure he hated me because he did not answer the email and now he was moving my appointment. He felt awful about it and told me he thought my email was more "rhetorical" and I was not looking for a response. So I said... please just answer it. He did with the most wonderful email I ever got and I still hold onto for reassurance when I need it. So perhaps the unreturned phone call was just an honest error.

Oh and attachment??? My T never mentioned this either for a good reason... he had no idea about attachment theory. It is not his area and we are learning about it together. I brought the topic up and we are exploring it jointly...he had no idea I had attachment issues but is sure explained a lot of what I was feeling. About transference... I brought that up too and we talked about it but not too deeply because I was terrified at the time that he would either terminate me or it would change or ruin our relationship. With the passage of time I see it hasn't. I brought it up again this week and we will explore it further down the line.

I guess what I'm saying is that therapy is truly a collaborative effort. You have to be open with him and tell him your feelings and if you learn something outside of therapy then bring it to him and ask his opinion of it. If he does not bring something up it does not mean that he is not vested in your healing... he just does not know everything.

AJB I feel your pain and I'm so sorry you are hurting. I do think you should call him and tell him how you are feeling. People return to therapy all the time. It does not mean you are a failure or anythiing... it just means you were not done yet. It's okay. Really.

Call him.

Hugs... TN

(((OW))) I'm sorry for what you are going through too. You are grieving for your old T and I think when you see her or hear from her you are happy and then it hurts all over again because you are still mourning what you don't have or lost. I wish I knew how to make it stop for you. I'm sorry.

Just keep venting here and know that we all have ups and downs and disruptions with our Ts. No one is perfect. Maybe you should talk this over with your current T.

In the meantime I send you healing hugs.

TN

quote:

so, does this meann that perhaps he DOES know what he is doing? i mean, i just really don't know. and how could a good therapist just let me walk away knowing i'm not done yet? what if i didn't go back? or what if that's not what happened and i DO go back? that would be awful too....

AJB, I really don't know how to asnwer that. I know this is going to sound crule to a trauma survivor, but you are goung to have to trust your gut and I know how impossible that feels. A good therapist has to let you feel, but they also need to help you contain and identify what those feelings are.

I am sorry but I forget, how long were you in therapy? It takes quite a while to develop a trusting bond with a T, but you should be able to identify at least if you are a match with him. If you have never felt that it may be worth "shopping around."

I would suppose that trying a different T and seeing how you connect with them would do no harm. I don't want to steer you away from a potentially wonderful T who knows you far better than I and has your best interest at heart. But I don't want to ignore the plaguing feelings of dissatisfaction I sense from your experience either. But this has to be your decision.

AJB, Close your eyes for a moment and take a deep cleansing breath then picture your T. Try to capture his facial expressions, his hair color, his voice and mannerisms. What is the qualities that you notice about him most?

Keep posting as much as you need to. Feel free to say what you need to express. It is all good and it all makes sense. You are in a painful place and sometimes you just need to hear yourself think. This is a good place to do that. I may be in and out, but I will be happy to reply and I know that there are many others who might jump in too. You're not a lone.
JM

THANKS EVERYONE!!

OW:
i read stuff on here all the time that sounds JUST LIKE what i am feeling or experiencing at the time. it's funny how just knowing you're not alone makes it easier to bear, huh? well, i just wanted to tell you to go ahead and just say whatever's on your mind. TRUST ME: you'll feel a whole lot better if you just let it out!!!

TN:
Thanks so much for all your kind words. i had decided with my husband that i don't need anymore regularly scheduled sessions but that i should talk it over with my T. i don't remember exactly telling him in session that i was "finished" or whatever, but when the session was over, he (cautiously) said he didn't think i needed another scheduled session. he said that he was there if i should need him in the future.so...
in my sessions, he mostly just taught me assertiveness and about passiveness/aggressiveness and how to not be taken advantage of and how to effectively communicate with others(especially my husband). too bad i cannot communicate with the T!!! once he wrote stuff down and said at next session we would discuss setting boundaries, but we never did...
i don't know..... thanks again for your support.

JM:
i was in therapy about 5 months. saw him about twice per month. twice he asked me what did i come in for today, which made me feel stupid and like i was bothering him. but i didn't tell him that, of course (didn't want to be even more of a bother). i guess i didn't talk enough or something. i remember saying "I don't know" alot. once he mentioned the word "bipolar" which freaked me out. i am not bipolar (and he didn't exactly say i was, but i am a nurse and it totally hit a nerve)
and once he told me i have alot of "dependence". he said he could "see it all over" me.
i live in a very small town(which he comes to once per week to work)and i just don't want to look like a fool if i go back and nothing happens. you know, if he says "what are you back for?" or if i go and get nowhere again. although it isn't really fair to say i got nowhere because i really did. in fact i think the therapy might've saved my marriage.
oh, one more thing:
once he told me "this (therapy) isn't forever"
which made me think even more that i was a bother and he couldn't wait for me to terminate. i think that might've been the day i tuned it all out, now that i think about it. may have been the day i decided i was miraculously "cured", i don't know..........

thanks again!

Reading this forum is good enough therapy at times.
I too feel that what others have written is exactly how I am feeling at the time.
I'm sorry to those of you going through a rough day today, but i get it!

Tomorrow is THE DAY I see my T. I'm re-reading the notes I've taken on transference and attachment theory, reviewing the highlights, but its NOT helping think of a way of how to bring this up, and I know that in talking I'm going to be a stuttering spaz.
I'm scared to death of changing the relationship. On top if it all I have to mention my friend and that it bothers me that she goes there. Like REALLY bothers me.
He's going to think I'm his next stalker I feel.
One hour just won't cut it. Damn.

HUGS travelluvr
Sounds like theres a lot of us going thru these transference things.
I hate it how every reaction to something your therapist says or does can be related to transference. I hate that cant it just be a reaction to the here and now?? what do you all think??

travelluvr... what you say is "I have something important to talk to you about but I'm scared because I don't want it to change the good relationship that we have but I feel I need to be honest. Because if I'm not honest it will interfere with our therapy and that is very important to me."

Then you can talk about transference and if you think you have attachment issues you can introduce that into the conversation by saying that maybe you react to him the way you do is because he has become and attachment figure (a secure base) for you and then you can discuss what that means. This can all lead into how you are feeling about him seeing your friend. It's almost like if you have some parental feelings for him she is like a sibling trying to take your parent's attention away from you. We all want to be special to our T's and it's hard enough with the other patients nevermind one that is a friend.

Good luck tomorrow.
TN

AJB,

I hear a lot of dissatisfaction from you. Perhaps he is a really good T, but he is not for you. You may need someone more attuned and less subtle in their approach. I know I do. And that is no slight on your part or his, it is that the two of you just don't mesh. For someone who plays such a significantly vital role in our lives he just doesn't seem to show up for you. It is nothing bad against him or you, there is just no chemsitry or connection and that is a must.

If I may add, if you are dealing with any type of trauma 5 months does not seem near long enough to have procesed anything completely. It takes longer than that to build a trusting realtionship with a T which is essential in your ability to work through the trauma(s).

I am so sorry I can't make this easier for you. I would if I could.

quote:

once he told me "this (therapy) isn't forever"

AJB

I have been in therapy for over 2 years, and I am really only just feeling a little more comfortable about the transference thing. It took a long time for it to appear, and it took a REALLY long time for me to figure out what it was and that I am normal. During that time (and quite often still) the pain is excruciating. 5 months is a very short time as JM said. When I starting whining to my T about how long I have been in therapy, and I must be cracked, and probably no one else has been doing this so long.......she said "therapy takes as long as therapy takes."

I think you have gotten a lot of great advice on this thread and I won't repeat what everyone else said, especially because they said it so well, but I do agree with them. There is nothing wrong with going back to therapy. My T says that people "dip in and out" all the time. And it is just quite possible that you and this particular T are not a match. You probably won't know until you try someone else and see how that feels. Check out the thread about finding a T, there was great discussion on there. I know it can be frightening to think that you are starting all over with someone else, but if another T becomes a match, it will be the most wonderful feeling for you and it will help you to resolve what is bothering you.

travelluvr

You have two very big issues you are dealing with. I can tell that the friend thing is really bothering you and I can completely understand. The connection between you and your T is a very personal one and to have someone else pretend that they know what you are doing in your therapy is just wrong! It sounds like your T is very kind and is looking out for you, especially by changing her appointment and not yours. You have to talk to him about this and get his reassurance that he is there for you, and it has nothing to do with her. If you don't talk to him about this, I'm afraid you will keep hurting. And I know for me, when something about my T starts to hurt, I can really blow it up to a monstrous size and dwell on it until I am sick. (I'm not minimizing your feelings at all here)

The transference issue is also very big. And anyone of use on here can attest to this. We have so..... been there, and still are. Again, you HAVE to bring this up to get some relief for yourself. T's do not want to push or suggest things to us because we have to tell them what we are feeling. If they make suggestions about something that really isn't what we are feeling, then they put an idea into our heads that is not true. How awful would it be to spend session after session talking about something that really doesn't relate to you!

You may want to write down what you are feeling and thinking before your session so you don't get flustered (as much). You don't necessarily have to read it to him, but you would have the satisfaction of knowing you had it just in case. And you may not get through it all in one session. But getting a little bit of it out, whatever you can handle, will let off a little of what is building up inside you. This is a scary thing that you are doing, but the rewards will be more than you can imagine. I wish you luck.

PL

I'm having a hard time separating the differences between 'attachment theory' or figure with 'transference'.
They both seem the same to me.

Can someone give me the coles notes version of the difference?
Thanks
And for the record, I'm sure I'm experiencing both.

travelluvr...try reading this piece on attachment...scroll down to the heading "The Therapist as an Attachment Figure"

http://www.daniel-sonkin.com/attachment_psychotherapy.htm

As for transference...there are many types of transference so it's hard to know where to send you to read. There is even negative transference where you attribute negative characteristics you encountered with people in your past to your therapist. The opposite side of this is erotic transference, which pretty much says that you have a passionate attraction to your T or a strong desire for your T. I would suggest reading In Session by Deborah Lott (available usually on Amazon). She explains a lot about this.

Why are you sure you are experiencing both?

TN

Travelluvr,
I'll take a shot at the difference between attachment figure and transference. Its easy to get confused and for a good reason. People who have attachment issues, especially disorganized attachment which is commonly the result of long-term childhood abuse and/or neglect, are often the people who develop intense "transference" relationships with their T. So often the two things, though separate, occur together and are interrelated in some ways.

Transference does not mean you aren't having real feelings in the here and now, you absolutely are and they are real and legitimate (my T tends to avoid the word transference, he doesn't like the connotations). But how you behave in relationship and the feelings that you struggle with in significant relationships can often be indicators of unresolved problems or unmet needs in your past. So the ability to observe your emotions and be able to discuss them with the object of those emotions,your T, who can also do the reality checking of telling you how they actually do feel and think, allows you to see patterns in yourself that you have no other way of observing. We can only know ourself in relationship. So the feelings that occur in the theraputic relationship can often be clues leading us back to things in our past that need to be healed. And when we heal, that allows us to change and having healthier relationships both with our Ts and outside of therapy.

Attachment theory states that our relationship with our attachment figure is a biologically driven behavior designed to help us survive since human infant would die on their own. The interactions with our attachment figure (literally from birth onward) form our "template" for relationships and what we expect from them. It shapes how we see the world and people around them. It literally affects the physical structure of the brain and the neural networks that develop. For people who receive "good enough" care from their attachment figures, their template tells them that when they express a need, it is met. That they matter because someone responds to their outcries and helps them understand themselves. They are taught how to handle adversity and soothe themselves by being soothed by their attachment figure. Recieving this kind of care provides them with a deep sense of their own worth and acceptableness.

But, if you do not receive these things from your attachment figure and in the case of abuse, the very person you need to go towards when distressed is the person causing the distress, all kind of maladaptive behaviors ensue, which provide the important function of surviving your childhood (which is a biggie) but later in life can become the very behaviors that prevent you from having a fulfilling life with close intimate relationships.

Your need to have a sense of your own worth and to learn how to handle your own emotions and move through them go unfulfilled. But these are basic human needs and do NOT go away although they can be driven deep underground.

And this is where the connection between attachment and transference comes in. A person who has never experienced a secure attachment will continue to look for one without even being aware of it. These are strong, primitive needs that can really drive you. So you go to therapy and here is someone who is listening to you, caring about you, treating you like you matter, understanding you and helping you make sense of your emotions. All the things you're attachment figure should have done. And that's when you're long-buried, but intense and primitive needs come roaring back to life because at last you can have them met. That's why the intensity is so high for transference (of any kind, I know I have struggled with both intense paternal and erotic transference depending on which emotions and needs I am dealing with.) because these are primitive needs from a time when you were pre-verbal and pre-cognitive but are experienced as a life and death issue which they were at the time. When we are in fear of our life, our limbic system can really scream at us to do something about it. So our relationship with our therapist takes on a "life and death" aspect. And we feel small and vulnerable and childish because that's exactly the part of ourselves that is so needy in this area.

The really good news is that attachment research has found that the brain's structure retains plasticity throughout your life so that we can fix a "faulty" template by forming a secure attachment even in adulthood. Working with your therapist, experiencing new emotional responses, literally rewires your brain.

There's a really excellent book (that I've recommended a gazillion times on this site, because it was very important to my healing) is The General Theory of Love by Thomas Lewis et al. It's extremely well-written and very accessible for the layman and provides an excellent explanation for how your brain develops according to attachment theory and how that translates into therapy. It provided a turning point for me both in accepting my need for dependence on my therapist for awhile and hope that I could ultimately work through all the intense feelings.

Hope that helped, feel free to ask questions about anything that didn't make sense.

AG

AJB,
I'm sorry for the hurt you're going through. I don't have much to add because you're getting excellent input, but I just wanted to say Five months?!!?? I mean, it took me that long to make eye contact, for pete's sake. I've been at this for over 20 years and am on my fourth run of therapy. I have left and come back three times and worked with two different therapists.

I don't want to scare anyone, I don't think it takes most people this long but just in case you feel like you're taking a long time, comfort yourself with the thought that you know someone who has taken longer.

So it doesn't suprise me at all that you may need to do more work. Especially since it sounds like there was a lot you didn't feel able to say.

AG

AG

Don't think that post was long enough!!! LOL no seriously, when are you going to write your own book and will we all feature as case studies????

I want to be known by my moniker, mysterious, medieval and mad!!!

L

LOS,
I can't write my own book, all my best material is stolen. And I promise, no case studies! On the other hand, I promise that if I ever speak about you in any publication, you will be mysterious, & medieval. I'm leaving the mad part out as it doesn't apply!

AG

Hi,
This is my first post. I can relate to much of what all of you have posted and you seem to be more comfortable with transferences then I. I have a preoccupied attachment with my T, which is making me feel very uncomfortable. I spend a great deal of time trying to keep in check, because it feels like a huge flaw in my character. I know transferences can contribute to some of the biggest personal growth in therapy, but I don't trust that if I let myself sink into it I will be do what is best for me. I feel like I will be losing some of my independence. I don't want to foster a dependency role because I feel like that will be backsliding. I really could use some of your insights.
Questing

Questing,
Welcome to the forums, thanks for introducing yourself. This is a great place to come when dealing with transference issues as so many people are dealing with it.

As far as dependency, I know that it was a huge issue with me in working through this. I thought that dependency was automatically unhealthy in a theraputic relationship and to be avoided at all costs. I have since learned differently. For the issues that I'm dealing with (the need to form a secure attachment) it as actually been necessary for me to allow myself to be dependent on my T for awhile because getting what I need in terms of an attachment figure is the only way for me to grow independent in a way which also allows me to form healthy, intimate connections with other people. In a sense, I'm going back to correct some develop gone awry, so that I can learn to be healthy and interdependent in the here and now. For me, dependency was so terrifying because the last time I tried it with my parents, it really didn't work out well.

If you go back a few posts in this thread, there's a book General Theory of Love that I think you would find helpful. The chapter Between Stone and Sky directly addresses the dependency issue. I think I may have actually posted an excerpt on that in another thread.

But in any case, I would recommend reading Shrinklady's article on Transference and both the transference threads. You're posting in teh second one and here's the first one Update on Transference. There's a lot of good info.

Looking forward to getting to know you. Great username by the way!

Oh, and one more thing, have you talked to your T about how you feel?
AG

Questing,
I tracked down the excerpt, you can read it here.

AG

I did it.
I told him. OMG was that scary. I was a mess. I was so nervous I was shaking and my hands were sweating. I tried about 5 times and he knew I was trying to say something. At one point I even said 'guess'. He said he had NO idea,.
So, I just said that I am feeling concerned about our sessions ending soon, and that I have a strong emotional attachment to him, and I admitted that I think about him sometimes maternally, like if its storming out and I know he's driving home (lives in another city) and how sometimes I feel like a 2 yr old and I want to cling on to him for dear life.
At that point he started to talk.
He said he understands. He understands that sometimes I would feel like I'm 2, 8, 12 or 18 years old.
It was an awkward moment, I kept my head down, face in hands. He said he was OK with it, and he agrees that we have developed a strong emotional bond, and he was glad I told him.
I did make a flip comment like
"you provide a service and hardly expect you to really give a shit about what goes on in my life" (which of course was my way of seeking approval)
but he took the hook, and he said that he did in fact care, and he is often worried about me, AND..the best part...is that when my sessions end he is willing to see me free of charge, that the association expects them to do SOME pro-bono work.
SO...I feel like 20 pounds has been lifted off of me. I didn't say 80% of what I wanted to say, but its out there now. And he was SO good.
Of course I wanted to hug him or such, but he is very clear with those boundaries.
He's off to Florida with the fam next week, so I have 2 weeks until I see him again, and I can't wait.
Thanks EVERYONE for so many good tips. It helped. Its going to be a long journey.
xo

Hi Questing. My Therapist told me once that "you need to be dependant before you can be independant."

I think that its hard to be dependent or preoccupied with our therapist but its probably a necessary part of growth in therapy. I'm not preoccupied with my therapist but i know that there are a lot of people that are and it truly is ok!

Thats great Travelluvr! Its really important that you had that discussion and its great that it turned out good for you.

My therapist hugs me and touches me i didn't realise some people had boundaries about touch.

quote:

I didn't say 80% of what I wanted to say, but its out there now. And he was SO good.

travelluvr

But you said 20% and that is awesome!! Just know that it may be a very long time before all 100% comes out. You can only take so much at a time. I told my T a few months ago, and thought "ok, that's that - I should be done with those feelings now." WRONG!

Today I went through the whole "what will I do if I get better and can't see you anymore?" thing. I am thinking that I am sabotaging myself because I'm so afraid of losing her. It was so hard to tell her this today, and she knew it and accepted it. Well, she said that when it comes time for that, she will have to be very careful to prepare me for it and make it a smooth transition. God I love that woman!!!

So my point is travelluver, even though I have been seeing her for over 2 years, I'm still not anywhere close to the 100%. I'm glad you had the courage and he accepted it and you are feeling better.

PL

travelluvr -

I'm so glad you were able to talk about it and that he was accepting. And at least you don't have to worry now about your sessions ending before you get the other 80% out.

Questing -

Welcome! I had a hard time with dependence on a T too, I probably still would but I have a new T and don't yet feel dependent on her. Anyway, I learned growing up not to be dependent on anyone, so when I found myself depending on her so much, it was really uncomfortable for me, and wonderful at the same time because not only did I depend on her, but she was dependable! Something I'm really NOT used to. If you can work with this kind of relationship with your T, I think it can be a really good thing, just like AG said.

OW

Hi guys!
Charlotte checking in to say hello and give you an update on my "Party Wagon"..LOL!! i have had an awesome week!! I have been doing great in my therapy, having some medical things still going on with my head...(In more ways than one!!) ...but I am a little concerned about some thoughts that have run through my mind this week....My question is how do you know when you are beginning to pass your transference from your T (and you all know the story of how I was referred to a female T after telling Mr. T about my feelings) to a person that is not a T??? I am having massage therapy for my headaches, and counseling with my pastor on some issues as well as my therapy with Ms. T (Who by the way is great and really helping me)....this is the first time I have felt worth 50 cents in a long time....BUT...BUT....I feel good when talking to my preacher (Marital counseling without my hubby who will not go) and feel even better when getting the massages 2 times a week...Oh my goodnesss...those thoughts...and those hands...and they are both georgeous and my age to boot!!! Am I a total screw up...or just a big slutty whore??? ...I have been writing a letter this week to my old Mr. T Thanking him for referring me out to someone else, and that I feel like I am getting over him fairly well...(But he still looks hot... to me when I pass him...and i still get that rush of addreneline...but it is no where near the same effect it has been)...Do I just need to leave my husband and join the "Sisters of Mercy" somewhere??? LOL...What is going on???...come on JM....AG...OW....And all my other friends out there...give me some pointers...I can't live thru this again, and the transference objects (if that's what they are)are getting much closer home!!
Talk to you soon, C

Thank you so much for the warm welcome. My T is dependable too, OW, that's what caused the preoccupied attachment. I'm not use to the consistance she provides and I find it hard to trust. And I will talk to her about my dependancy fears, she will be receptive to the conversation. Thanks AG, that was a very sensible suggestion, I can't believe I over looked the obvious. I didn't relize exactly how stressed I felt until I posted my first note and I cried. Thank you for your support.
Questing

Hi Charlotte,
I'm glad you are having a great week! FYI: Since I'm new here, I did a little "background reading" in some of your older posts so I could gain some perspective on what you posted about tonight. I am glad things are going well for you and that your female T is helping so much- looks like your old T made the right decision for you.

Well, as my name suggests, I have had multiple transference experiences with various people. It began happening when I was in Jr. High... I started young! Since then, I have transferred the transference (lol... hope that makes sense) upwards of ten times. I have definitely felt the

quote:

Am I a total screw up...or just a big slutty whore???

feelings before because most of my experiences have involved sexual aspects (fyi, all of mine have been for older women and I am a heterosexual female). I am currently in therapy, going on 10 months, and she is my most recent obsession.

From what I have been through and what I am currently learning, my suggestion for you would be to tell your current T about these new feelings you are having for other people. Obviously, there are reasons we do what we do and that we fall for who we fall for. Looking into that and analyzing your motives with your T might help you to understand what it is about these current people that is drawing you in. I guess I'm just saying that these transference experiences are bound to keep consuming you until you can isolate why they are manifesting. Also remember that having someone focus all of their time and energy on you (i.e. pastor, massage T, T) just plain feels good. And when you aren't used to feeling good, it can be OVERWHELMING!

I hope that these new people can be opportunities that you can expand on with your T to further your journey and understanding of yourself. My T always says that she is just a mirror reflecting whatever me and my thoughts/feelings are projecting. That analogy always helps me to realize that when I am in a new relationship with a proverbial blank slate, what I see that is going on is most likely an illustration of something originating from within me. Hope that helps.

P.S.- I think it is cool that you are writing and thanking your old T. I know he will be glad to know that you are satisfied and that you feel he made the right move.

quote:

Originally posted by Questing:
I didn't relize exactly how stressed I felt until I posted my first note and I cried. Thank you for your support.
Questing

Welcome to the forum Questing, We are all here to tell our stories and give support, sometimes seeing our stress written down can affect us more.

My T isnt always dependable but i still feel very attached to her.

Chronically Transferred I have had transferece feelings towards my fitness instructor, I thought i was going crazy, When i first read that its not always a Therapist that people experience transferece towards i felt very relieved. By the way welcome to the forum.
Em

Questing

First of all, let me say hi and welcome to a great forum. I'm glad you feel comfortable and that posting here is helping you to get some of your feelings out. We all value the fact that we can be heard and understood here. So, post away! As you will find out, we all also have an opinion about everything. But, that is a good thing. I have gotten amazing advice and strength from these friends here.

PL

Hello Questing,
I wanted to take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum as I have not had an opportunity to do so yet. I am glad you are finding the support you need here and I am glad you are feeling so free to speak about your feelings here. And yes, this is an excellent place to feel understood.
JM

Thanks, C. Transferred,
Seems like you have been down the road...a few times! By the way, welcome to our forum! Hope that you will keep posting, it seems that you have a level head about you. I have been thinking about my post the last few days, and I really don't think I am transferring to other people. I think it was the pain medications talking more than my heart! I am going to back off both men for a little while and see what happens! I am facing surgery soon..(I find out Monday) and I can't be caught up in this too! I appreciate your words...they were awesome...and it did get me to thinking about things!...I hope to talk to you again soon!...C

AG,
I had to wait a week, but I took your suggestion and talked to my T about how uncomfortable I feel allowing myself to feel dependent on her. It actually started a great discussion about the different levels of dependency we all have on people in our lives.
She told me it was alright to depend on her. I told my T I have a fear that she will terminate with me if I'm dependent on her. She said she would not terminate with me unless termination was something I brought up and we talked about it.
Thanks!
Questing

quote:

Originally posted by River:


About erotic transference - #1 - Falling in love with the therapist

About erotic transference - #2 - Acting on erotic transference/ countertransference

Transference - by our own Shrinklady

Hi all, I just wanted to thank you for the linkage and let you know that my site has moved. You can now find these posts and a number of others about transference and the therapeutic relationship at http://behindthecouchblog.blogspot.com http://behindthecouchblog.blogspot.com

I hope everyone is well.

All the best

BTC

Thanks BTC for the links, I was just reading through your blog, some great stuff there.

Transference is a real pain in the butt! This is my first year experiencing it to this extent, but also the first year I've had a male psychologist.

He's been gone on holidays, so it will be 2 weeks since I've seen him and confessed my transference issues with him. Oddly enough, I feel so much lighter, better. I'm no obsessing over him nearly as much. Time does seem to help! I'm sure that once I'm back I'll have the 'post therapy' thoughts for a good 48 hrs. Seems to be the pattern.
I am hoping it fades. It's been exhausting.

curious how the rest of you have been doing this week.......
-travelluvr

I'm just sick...

I have been shaken to the core re: Dr. X and his prior behavior towards me that seemed out of context and slightly inappropriate. I always discounted it because I needed a man that I could trust in my corner after having been traumatized by a male doctor I was supposed to have been able to trust to take care of me. I can't trust Dr. X, either...I'm nauseated, I don't trust myself now as far as being a good judgment of character and I've been using his "concern" for me as a source of strength and I can no longer do that. His "concern" was motivated by sex, not a human concern for me.

I read "Sex in the Forbidden Zone" and it perfectly describes what has been happening between Dr. X and I, the "grooming" behavior.

Meanwhile, the investigation into the doctor who traumatized me is now closed and he was found to not have been negligent and not to have violated standard of care. I'm sick over that, too, even though it was the outcome I expected.

This triggered my PTSD; I nearly elbowed a grocery store clerk in the face the other night when she came up close behind me unexpectedly, plus, whenever someone would come near me, my heart would race and I would feel threatened. Then I had a panic attack at work for no obvious reason.

I'm a mess.

Hi Sprinting: That sounds all so horrible.
Can you stop seeing Dr. X immediately?? I really think you should. Cancel all future appointments. Perhaps look into only using a female therapist in the future to keep yourself safe.
We have a licensing college of physicians here that would take a complaint if necessary ....however it sounds like you've been down that road and may not want to go that route again.

I can understand that your trust has been shattered and it would be a PTSD trigger for most...me included. What a bastard. Maybe calling him up and telling him right off on his voicemail or something would help?
I do'nt know the history. I just know you need to never go there again. Be safe.

Dr. X is my oncologist. I have no appointments with him scheduled; I am supposed to do follow up with him in early summer. I could easily change doctors but the thought of seeing someone who isn't familiar is really scary to me at the moment.

I have a T; she is female.

There is no point in making a complaint because what has happened would easily be explained away, which is what I had been doing myself in justifying it. Besides, I have said so many good things about him to so many people that could easily be used against me

I feel like such an idiot, for explaining away those out of context things, for only wanting to see that he was trying to help me...because I was so desperate for someone to help me, to try to understand what I had been through. He seemed to understand. I never told my T what he said and did and now I feel terrible about going back and telling her that many months back this happened and I just never mentioned it. I also don't want her to lodge a complaint against him based on what I said. I just can't go there. I only wanted to see the good. I couldn't see anymore bad, I just could not bear it. I still want to explain it away.

When I found out about the results of the investigation, my first thought was that I wanted to talk to him about it even though I had already come to this realization. How sick is that. I am colluding with him.

I know he is a bastard and is taking advantage of his implicit position of power so I am trying really hard not to blame myself but it is hard not to: it is what I know, unfortunately.

SG

SG,
I don't want to make excuses for your Dr. and his behavior but please know that although the patterns of behavior may have fit, it is VERY rare that a professional is acting consciously and deliberately to exploit a patient. In most cases of boundary violations, especially those that involve a sexual relationship, the doctor or therapist is responding to his own unmet needs and is often unconscious of being seductive or "grooming" someone. They are just feeling the same way we are, that they are strongly attracted to the other person.

This does NOT excuse his behavior; it is up to the professional to diligently guard those boundaries and I think it would be really good for you to tell everything to your T about what happened and how he behaved. But I thought perhaps it might feel like less of a betrayal if he his behavior wasn't a blatant attempt to just use you for his ends.

AG

C. Transferred...I wanted to let you know, I thought about what you said and I told my T about the other people I thought I felt tranference coming on with and she said it definitley was the pain meds talking BUT..that's when you say what you really feel inside!! She told me I definitly needed to back off of them and let myself get overmy Mr. T completely so that these feelings would go away instead of transferring...but I see my pastor every week...I see my massage T 2 times a week...and I will not stop seeing him...God those hands!! but I have been keeping the conversations to a minimal and watching myself very carefully...with both men...I would not tell her who they were...but I promised to be a good girl!!
I hope you are doing well...how are your transference issues going? I haven't seen you on the forum lately...talk to you soon!
JM, AG, SG and PL...where are you guys at these days?? Hello everyone I haven't mentioned...I can't remember you all, but i hope you are all having a great week...I have had some good sessions lately...and My T told me she thought next week I could drop down to everyother week...I am proud and then I am sad!!! What is up with that??
See ya, Charlotte

Hey Charlotte-
I'm glad you talked to your T about the other two men- and I think what she said was true. Pain meds do allow you to drop some barries that you wouldn't normally let down. I am also glad you are being mindful and careful with your pastor and massage T. Hopefully awareness will help with the intensity of the feelings.

I am doing pretty well with the transference stuff right now, thanks for asking! It was pretty rough going there for a while. A few weeks ago, I wrote my T this three page letter of all the things I wish she could be for me, all the reasons why I know she can't be those things, and why I feel like she is rejecting me. It wasn't anything she didn't already know, but instead of letting her read the letter, I actually read it to her and I was very emotional. But, it was very important to me that I tell her- actually say the words out loud. It was something I had to do, and I was so glad I did it. Of course, two weeks later, she freakin went on vacation and I felt like I was being punished because I couldn't see her. Even when she is in town but I don't have an appointment, I find comfort in the fact that she isn't far away. But I managed to get through her vacation and ONLY called her 3 times... Geez! And her and her boundaries didn't call me back until she returned from vacation, ugh. It was truly hellish. But my first session back with her was really good- hard but good. I was able to express some feelings of fear and angst that I hadn't before and she wasn't mad at me or anything! Plus, she gave me some reassurance and I was in a vulnerable enough place to receive it... which is rare! It was very comforting overall, and made me appreciate the boundaries of the therapeutic environment instead of loathe them like I normally do.

I'm glad you have had some good sessions lately and that you will be able to move to every other week appointments. It doesn't surprise me that you're a little sad about it. It sounds like you have a great relationship with her, and cutting back means seeing her less. Plus, that is less time that you get to be completely seen and known... who wouldn't miss that some? I think you will do well with it though, once you get used to it.

-CT

quote:

I am proud and then I am sad!!! What is up with that??

Charlotte
You should be proud. It means that you and your T have agreed that you are strong enough to fly on your own. And that is our ultimate goal isn't it? I can also completely understand the sadness. Our T's are such a safety net for us and they are always there to catch us when we slip. Your T will still be there if you need her, but she is giving you the chance to experiment on your own. As time goes by, I am sure that you will become more and more confident of yourself and your skills. But, it is still ok to need her when you struggle.

I have hit some pretty deep stuff lately and it seems like a light is beginning to go on in my head. While I still have difficulty thinking that my little girl feelings and emotions are ok, I am starting to see that I need to discuss these in more depth with my T. I know she will understand and help to guide me through this, I just need to stop judging myself about them. That of course is easier said than done. It also causes a lot of anxiety in me and so I am trying to be aware of that and use the meditation skills I am learning, more often.

Thanks for asking Charlotte and I hope that things are going well for you. Keep posting and letting us know how you are doing.

PL

Nice to hear some updates on how people are doing. The comments on multiple transference have definitely got me thinking.....to the past, the present. It never occured to me these things happening in other relationships other than tdocs

Mine was gone for 2 weeks, and I didn't really miss him. I went to my session this week and I was SO bitchy and filled with PMS rage that all I did was talk about how miserable I was and how much I hate life. I told him not even to talk to me because there was nothing he could say to make me feel better.
I feel so stupid now, that PMS is quite concerning lately, it really makes me crazy.

I have 2 sessions left. I'm not sure if I feel relieved or panicked.
I do have coverage for 5 more sessions and if I got him to backdate the invoice, I could even do 10 more sessions, I just don't know if he would mess with his billing like that for me. Unethical I think. He very much plays by the rules.
My emotions towards him are equally as frustrating as PMS. I wonder if I need my hormones checked?
Be well
travelluvr

Hi everyone. Well, after getting my PTSD under control with an emergency visit to my T, I'm back to pondering the transference. I feel ambivalent about Dr. X (my MD) in a lot of ways. I'm thinking back to the very beginning when I first got the signal from him and how he would examine my body like he owned it- firmly, no warning, as if I were his for the taking.

Then I think of how kind he was to me when my treatment by others went wrong, how I felt held by him as if he were with me whenever I would feel really bad about it all, how I knew that he really does care at a deeper level.

The sexual component is starting to feel really disgusting and not exciting at all, like maybe I just want him to hold me and that is it, show me physical affection and reassurance, but not sexual. I feel closer to deleting the voicemail he left me and I think I am tired of hearing his voice.

Lastly, I don't believe in my heart anymore that anything good or healing could come of this. We have shown our complimentary wounds to each other and that is what is drawing us close- there is no romance or fairytale in that.

But yet...I have not fired him.

SG

(((SG)))
I agree with HB. At least you're heading in the right direction. I am sorry this is heartbreaking for you. I hope your T is able to help you work through this. It sounds like a lot of healing has taken place in order for you to be able to see things the way that you do with Dr X now and to feel repulsed by the sexual draw and that it doesn't belong there. It doesn't mean that he doesn't care, but that he let his needs over ride in his treatment for you. I am glad your T was able to help you get things back under control.
JM

quote:

AG,
I had to wait a week, but I took your suggestion and talked to my T about how uncomfortable I feel allowing myself to feel dependent on her. It actually started a great discussion about the different levels of dependency we all have on people in our lives.
She told me it was alright to depend on her. I told my T I have a fear that she will terminate with me if I'm dependent on her. She said she would not terminate with me unless termination was something I brought up and we talked about it.
Thanks!
Questing

Hi Questing!
I'm so sorry but I missed this when it was posted, I certainly didn't mean to ignore you! That's awesome that you spoke to your T about your feelings of dependency. It's really scary to bring this stuff up and it was very brave of you to go there. I'm really happy that you got such a great reaction, she sounds like a wonderful T. And getting that reassurance that you won't be sent away is not only really good to hear, it was really important for me. I think I was scared if I got better I would have to go away so I didn't always want to get better. My T told me (more than once, bless him) that I was welcome to come for as long as I wanted to, he would never ask me to leave. After I heard that, it felt safe to really work on my issues. I'm so glad that you have that security.

Again, my apologies for missing the post!

Do you need the HTML slapper?

AG

quote:

I think I was scared if I got better I would have to go away so I didn't always want to get better.

Seriously AG, have you been peeking into my brain? I am thinking this and more, right now! I need my T to tell me over, and over, and over, and over an........................... Don't know if it will ever sink in. Actually, I'm going to have this very talk with her today.

PL

PL,
I really really do understand! I hope the talk went well with your T, let us know what happened. And I would be peeking into your brain, but I've been so busy upgrading the HTML slapper that I'm behind on my brain peeker.

AG

AG

I had a pretty awesome session today. After the "I love you" call on Tuesday, I got it into my head that she was upset with me. Who knows why?? I'm crazy that way. I called her and left a dorky message about that. And that I thought she was going to terminate me.

Well, today she was totally confused as to why I was thinking that. Come to find out, she was upset at the beginning of my previous session (and my radar picked up on that) but, it was something personal and had absolutely nothing to do with me. She apologized profusely today and said that she should have taken a few extra minutes before she let me in, to compose herself.

I was a little POed at first as I had suffered a lot of pain, and I let her know it. I wasn't gonna let her off the hook too easily. She really was apologetic and took responsibility for the whole thing. So, I forgave her.

Then we did a lot of talking about why I would even think that she would terminate me. We also talked about trust and if I thought she would lie to me. (funny, SHE brought that up) That of course led to the abandonment issue. She then said, "What can I do to prove to you that I will never lie to you and I am not going away?" She said that she doesn't drop clients. I told her that there could always be a first time. That actually made her laugh. She kept repeating that she was not going away and even said that her family was know to have longevity. So I guess we will be two 100+ yr. old women still doing therapy.

Anyway, we got into some pretty deep stuff - enough to bring on a few tears - but the best part is that I felt an even closer connection to her. She was human. She made a mistake and owned up to it. And she held my hand very softly at the end of my session. Gotta love her.

PL

PL,
That's really wonderful! You know you have a good therapist when they're willing to own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for their behavior. And I love that she didn't try to cover it up. I don't know about you, but I was told that white was black too many times a s a kid. I don't need my T telling me that what I picked up on wasn't true when it was.

But I'm glad you didn't let her off the hook too easily either. She is responsible for the integrity of those boundaries and she made a bad call on that one. But being able to repair the relationship after thoses kinds of disruptions really strengtens it.

I'm also really happy that she was able to be so reassuring about not sending you away. You need that security. And trust me I understand about the 100+. Sometimes, I have a picture of my T being in a nursing home and me sitting next to his bed for a session. (He's 12 years older than me.) We'll get there and hopefully while we can still remember what we learned.

Thanks for talking about your appt. And I can certainly understand why you love her. It would be extremely difficult not to.

AG

Hello my friends!
Charlotte is holding her own...well almost!! I didn't have a session this past Tuesday and I feel like I haven't seen my T's office in a year!! I thought I would go crazy that day...I literally wasted a whole afternoon because I have been going every week for a year or so...I didn't know what to do with my extra time! Anyway, I have tried to think of a million reasons to call her...or old Mr. T pretending to leave a message for her but I regained my poise before I actually did it!! I have made a few strides that I feel like are milestones for ole Charlotte! I took my old Mr T's name out of my cell phone and put in Ms T's. I also took his last name I was using for a password and changed it to my grandaughter's name!! I even went on the web and gave him a five star rating on his services as a T...anonymous of course!! and when I wanted t call and listen to his recording on his answering machine this week....I just texted my Ms. T and told her how much weight I had lost so far on my new diet plan we divised together!! (7 Pounds) So I guess I really am making progress even if it only seems like minimal things to others...It was a great deal for me...Still having some medical problems... ...but hey..Rome wasn't built in a day right??
As far as the concern over possible transferring my transference feelings to my pastor and massage T...I think I have managed to escape it for the most part...my massage T is not as risky as I thought at first...although I told my friend jokingly the other day that the "little frenchman" that gave me my back massages would be a "little french whore" if I was 100 pounds lighter and 10 years younger!!LOL But I have several male friends there (young enough to be my sons) that I joke and carry on with and he has begun to feel more like a brother to me than anything else. (Now I just gotta keep telling myself that.. ) My pastor on the other hand....I have been texting him and talking to him daily, but I think he is more of a father figure to me in my mind now...he is constantly reminding me that I am one of his church members and he is suppose to watch out for me...and help me out. I am trying very hard to remember that! But why does he have to look so darn good????
How have you guys been doing?? I have been reading the forum as much as I can...and am sorry I haven't been more social, but sometimes I have Dr. appointments everyday of the week, and my meds make me so tired...PL I am glad your session went so well this week, I think it was awesome that she held your hand...if my Mr. T had held my hand in session...I'd probably be in divorce court right now...guess that's why he didn't!!
JM and AG..HOWDY!! hope you are all fine...everyone else...Charlotte sends out a big HELLO and hope you all are fine...have a great weekend every body!!...my sleeping meds are kicking in and the keys are starting to wiggle around on my keyboard
See ya, C

P.L. : WOW!! Your Tdoc held your hand?? That is like my dream come true. She really sounds great, I'm so glad she is SO connected and honest with you. And good for you for not backing down.
Charlotte: those are huge strides, huge. I am very impressed you were able to do those small things, baby steps seem to be the way.

I had my tdoc appt yesterday. I haven't been missing him, but then we went and had this totally intense session, I just emotionally vomited all over him and told him some heavy childhood stuff...and he cried, just a few tears, which just KILLS me. He really really does care, I can tell how involved he is with me.
SO, it was supposed to be my last session. He said he feels I have 'unresolved issues' and doens't want me to stop coming, we figured out a way to get my insurance to cover things (he's actually going to lie and backdate an invoice) but thats another story. He knows I'm a single mom and can't afford it, plus he's offered to see me for free...but how many times can I do THAT without guilt.
Here is the kicker. He's really disorganized and scattered by nature. He has a hard time keeping up with paperwork, invoicing, bookings.
He said to me "It's really too bad we have this patient/Dr. relationship, because I would love to hire you to work for me".
OMFG.
I work in an office billing doctors all day long so he knows I know my stuff. But WOW..to say that. It was almost like he wanted me to say "I don't think our relationship would be an issue" but I didn't. Because it would. I'd want to bust the door down to his office and shag him on that couch just about daily.
I continually sugar coat the truth and talk about my transference as in a 'father' role with him. But its not. Clearly. sigh.

Thanks for updates everyone...I love seeing how others are doing!
xoxo
Happy Friday

TL

Don't want to interpret his suggestion but I just love the 'want to bust the door down and shag him on the couch...'Good for you for owning up to that one to us...now you just need to own up to him!!!

LOS

I am new to this site, I just found it today as I was trying to find more information on transference. This site is awesome. I have been dealing with being in love with my psychiatrist for 10 years. He knows how I feel because of stuff I have written him but I have never been able to be brave enough to tell him in person. I see him on April 1st and I am trying to get to where when I go see him I can just be honest about everything. I am scared to death to do it. I know he wont react bad and he wont stop seeing me, but it is still so scary. But I want to confess to him about everything from the way I feel about it, what I think about doing with, about googling him, about being friends with his daughter on facebook just so I can try to learn more about him. I just want to be completely honest for once. And after reading all these posts and seeing how it worked out for some of yall it is making me feel at least a little better about doing. I know as the day gets closer I am going to freak out even more. I emailed him today and told him that at the next appointment we needed to talk about the transference issues but that he would have to start the conversation because I would be too scared to. So hopefully that will help make me do it. Its also nice to hear that I am not the only one who does all these crazy things. I thought I was the only one who drove by their T's house or saved voice mails and texts messages from their T. I have 18 text messages that cover a 6 month time period that I constantly read over and over again, some emails I do the same thing and a voice mail that i listen to. How did yall get the courage to fess up to everything to your T? I am so scared to be honest about wanting to have sex with him or fantasizing about him.

Hi Pippi! Welcome to the board, I'm new myself and have found it to be a great support.
My word of advice is BABY steps. You don't have to tell him right away you want to have sex with him, or think about it. You can say things like you think about him a lot...or that you feel your caring is much more deep than casual.
He already knows.
I was a bit oblivious to this until recently. I thought my therapist had no idea, and I've only been with him a year.
I was there tonight as a matter of fact, and my sessions have ended but I figured out a way to go once a month.
He clearly stated he would miss me and he would 'try not to worry' about me.
I wanted to jump on him right there.
You can't do things like be friends with his dtr on facebook, but its OK to think about it.
I dunno, once I talked about it, the intensity went away a little.
Stay grounded. Breathe. Just say 'frig it' and get it out of your system. You will sleep better~!
goodluck!

Hi Pippi,
Welcome to the boards, I'm glad you've found it. Transference can feel pretty crazy, I know what a relief it is to find out you're not the only one.

Don't feel like you have to tell your T everything at once. The first time I talked to my T was to tell him that I was feeling attracted to him (he was my husband's T first and we were seeing him for marital counseling at the time.) As I've continued to work with him, I've been able to tell him more and more, but each time was based on the fact that the previous time I told him something he reacted so well, with acceptance and understanding so that I felt safer telling him more. That way I worked up to the biggies.

I know its scary to do but its really good to talk about. It's often in our interactions with our therapist that we can really see how we relate and what we want to change.

AG

That is helpful to know that I don't have to do it all at one. I really want to be able to go in there and be honest about everything this one time and never have to deal with it again, but I realize that will not be the case. He already knows I am attracted to him and that I cant stop thinking about him because of the stuff I have wrote. So I feel like he deserves for me to be a little more honest than that, I just dont know how honest I can be or that it is okay to be. It seems to me that it is a little inappropriate to tell some of the stuff I think about. There has been times that he has asked me what I am thinking about in the middle of therapy and it kind of catches me off guard because I dont know if it is okay to say "I was just thinking about having sex with you." Is that really an okay thing to tell him? Its even harder when I get scared because I was really just staring at him in a way I shouldnt, I dont know if he realized that or not.

I know I probably shouldnt be friends with his daughters on facebook, but the truth is that they are both my age or a year or so difference and I have 43 mutual friends with both of them because we grew up in the same town together. I was even really good friends with the guy his daughter just broke up with, but the daughter has no idea. I never talk to her, I just sometimes check her page out to see if she mentions her dad in any posts or puts up any new pictures of him. She only has a couple up of him but it always him with his kids which makes me sad and jealous because he is living his life without me and because his kids get to do all these great things with him that I will never get to do.

I also like to check up on his ex wives just to make sure that they are not getting close again, cause I dont want him to get remarried. I know we could never be together or even have a friendship, but I prefer to think that he is not going to get married again or even dating anyone. I dont even like to hear him talk to his friends I like to think that he is at his house by himself all the time when he is not at work just waiting for me to call and bug him. I know its not really like that but thats what I try to imagine.

Pippi

Welcome! I'm new, too, as of 2 days ago.

I agree with everyone else. Take it slow. You say, "it seems to me that it is a little inappropriate to tell. . ." If it feels inappropriate, then don't say it. Let your own conscience be the judge. You say, "I feel he deserves for me to be a little more honest than that." Don't talk about it for him; talk about it for you. If you don't want to talk about it for you, then don't do it, if you need to talk about it for you, then do it. That's just my 2 cents worth.

I have major transference issues of the mom variety with my T. I don't tell her everything I feel about it, because it feels so shameful. She knows what's going on. I don't need to give her every detail. But when I talk about it a little, it helps it not to feel so weird. Once, I said to her, "I realized that I'm not the only one who is vulnerable in this relationship. You're mothering me, and to do that, you have to care about me, and open up, and be vulnerable." She said, "You're right. It's real. If it wasn't, you would be able to tell, then it wouldn't be effective." That made me feel better, like I'm not alone in this, even though I know she's not obsessed with me.

I'm only seeing her once this week when I usually see her twice. It's killing me. I need her so much. She just called out of the blue to check in on me, which was so sweet. I'm so angry that her family gets to have her and I don't. Sometimes that feeling is so strong that it makes me want to quit therapy. It's just not fair!

catgirl,

I know what you are saying. I get mad at his family sometimes about it. I just wish my T would call me to just check in on me! He only calls if I call first and have some good reason why I need to talk to him. Luckily he has been nice enough to let me have his cell phone number and email address so that it is easier for me to get ahold of him, plus he has his answering sevice, which I never go through that anymore. It sometimes frustrates him because I will call so much and he wont think it is an emergency. But the truth is that at the time it was an emergency, but then when I hear his voice it calms me down so much that it doesnt seem like a big deal anymore.

I dont have as much option on just not telling him what I dont feel like telling him. I have been seeing him for 10 years and if I am not willing to work on the transference issues and be completely honest then he will most likely end therapy. I understand why he has said that, because this is an important issue that needs to be dealt with and can really help me work on past issues. He will understand if I just take the baby steps and do a little each session. I am going to try that.

One of the hardest things for me right now is even trying to find a way to start the conversation when I go see him. I usually let him start all the conversations, and if he doesnt start this one and bring it up then I dont even know what to say or how to start it. At least I have until April 1st to figure it out.

I wish I could see my T every week but we are doing it once a month, but I do have the option of calling him and coming in sooner if I need to. He always leaves it where if I even called today I could come see him today. That always makes me feel a little better. But it is so freakin expensive and I already owe him a couple thousand dollars so it makes me feel bad to come in more when I can only afford once a month. I guess Ill just have to stick with calling him all the time.

Hi, I've been lurking here for a while, ever since I realized I was experiencing a transference reaction to my T of the maternal nature. Reading your posts gave me the courage to be honest and tell my T about this in a letter during session. I was terrified and hurting and so ashamed and humiliated that I would ever feel this way, but knew that I had to be upfront and honest about this. I knew I would be unable to verbally share, hence the letter.

However, her response was...well, unexpected, I guess. I was so anxious and terrified, and I didn't have any idea what her reaction would be. And, I was having quite a time staying present to hear her response. The few things that did get through were, well, disconcerting at best, and downright hurtful at worst. I felt her response was condescending and patronizing, and I left that session feeling absolutely misunderstood and invalidated. After the fact, I realized that all I had needed to hear was that I was understood, I had been heard, what I was feeling was okay (even though I find it anything but), and that my T would be there to help me work through this. I heard none of this.

It took a couple subsequent sessions, but last session I felt capable enough to assert myself about that session. And while my T apologized for not validating me in a way I would hear and understand, in addition to stating that she did understand, I'm still very hurt and disillusioned. I don't feel comfortable expressing any emotion in front of her, where before all this came up I had no problem being emotional with her. I don't feel any kind of connection to her at all, where before I always felt heard and understood.

I don't know what to do now. How can I continue to see my T when I don't trust her, when I don't feel any kind of understanding and acceptance from her? I never questioned her commitment to helping me before, but now...well I feel like to her I'm an interesting specimen under a microscope.

Any words of advice?

Thanks,
Musical Me

Musical Me

I'm sorry that you put yourself out there, and took a major risk, and felt like you were left hanging out to dry. It must be very painful.

Since you had such a good relationship with your T before, I'd suggest sticking it out with her. Maybe you could work through it together. Would you consider writing a letter telling her your side of the situation and your feelings?

Hugs to you!

Meow,

catgirl

Catgirl,

Yes, it is very painful. In my session last week I specifically addressed the things I had heard when I divulged the realization that I was experiencing this transference. I told my T each thing I remembered hearing, how I interpreted her meaning, and how I felt as a result. I also told her what I had needed to hear and feel from her, and my feelings and thoughts when I didn't. I didn't hold back, was very honest and direct, which for me isn't easy, but I felt was necessary if I were to even hope to continue on my therapeutic journey. I do believe that she never meant to hurt me, that she was trying to validate me, but just wasn't using the right words to get through to me. Which she acknowledged. And apologized for. I also believe that she does understand, and doesn't think any less of me for all this, which she also said.

My problem is that, while on a logical level I understand and accept and believe all that, my emotional side isn't buying it. Since I posted, I've wondered if I feel so disconnected to my T because I am so appalled to feel anything for her beyond what I feel is reasonable. I never wanted to view her in a maternal way, in fact was hyper-vigilant to make sure I didn't start to feel this way. It seems like such a betrayal of the therapist/client relationship. I don't want to feel that I need my T to hold, comfort, soothe me, as if I were a child. I don't want to form any kind of attachment to her beyond what is reasonable. I just want her to be there for 50 minutes every week, listen to me, help clarify things when I have questions or doubts, and offer suggestions when I'm stuck. I don't want to have this need to rely on her for anything beyond what is reasonable.

Does any of this make sense?

Musical Me

Musical Me

It makes perfect sense.

Things will probably work themselves out over time with your T. This whole process is such a work in progress!

You say, "I never wanted to view her in a maternal way. . ." That's what's so difficult about transference, isn't it? It's completely out of our control! That's one reason why it's so shameful/embarrassing to me.

Good luck!

Keep us posted!

catgirl

quote:

I don't want to have this need to rely on her for anything beyond what is reasonable.

Does any of this make sense?

That depends a lot on what is reasonable. What I always thought was a reasonable, professional relationship with my T has been constantly challenged through my experiences with her. Breaking down the walls leaves me vulnerable and I am thankful she knows this and knows how hard it is to feel like a child and struggle with being attached to this not-quite-a-friend but not-quite-a-stranger person and accommodates it as must as possible. In fact she often offers me more than I thought was possible for her to give. For example, I once expressed how I wish I could call her everyday and she said "why not?" All I could think of to say is that it didn't sound reasonable to me. She then said that it did sound reasonable to her. So, what you may think is reasonable may not be what your T thinks is reasonable. But you don't know unless you ask. T's don't volunteer a whole lot of information out of the blue. I hate having to ask about all of this stuff all of the time but it is definitely stretching muscles that haven't been much used.

Hello everyone

I don't mean to change the subject, but I was wondering. What exactly is a safe touch hug?

Hi Everyone! Just dropping in to say hello...Hope you all are fine and seeing good results in your sessions. I have to say I am making progress...have come a long way, but still have a ways to go...Most everyone knows my story with my old Mr. T and how he ditched me when I told him of my transference....now I see a Ms. T in his office...well I guess he feels guilty about that because my insurance says I had met my # of eligble visits....well he told the secretary to tell me...that I was not to worry I would not be billed for any services beyond that...no matter how long it took!!!...He loves me...I knew it! ...but I am progressing greatly...beyond that and was actually able to pass him in the hallway and say hello & ask him how he was doing...smiled...and kept right on walking!! Have a great Easter...talk to you soon...Charlotte

PS Tina, Hello nice to meet you...I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a safe touch hug in a transferenc situation!!...when I was so deep in my transference with Mr. T...if he had even thought about hugging me...I would have surely touched him....and he would not have been safe!!

Thanks.
I just read about something in therapy and some T's use what they call safe touch hugs. It doesn't have anything to do with transference just something some T's do. Heck I don't know.

Hi Tina,

I read something in one of the forums here about safe hugs. I know that P's don't do it often (they are too rigid lol), but T's will apparently. I think the forum was called 'Hugs in Therapy' under the Stories section. Might answer your questions.

Holly

I havent heard about these safe touch hugs. I wish my P would do but he probably knows it wouldnt be a safe thing to do cause I might be thinking about all the wrong things. But at the same time it would be nice. The T that I have transference towards gave me a hug last month when I saw him and it was the best feeling and safest I have ever felt. The only other time he hugged me was when I graduated from high school because he was my high school therapist and we thought we would never see each other again. But I didnt give up until he gave into emails once a week and now he also sees me every six months, he comes to my P's office to see me before my appointment. I loved it when he hugged me and sometimes I think I would feel so much better if I got a hug my P too. But I am too scared to ask. With the T I asked through email and the answer was no at first because of the transference and because I admitted that after hugging him at graduation I thought about having sex with him for days, but he initiated last time I saw him after he saw that I was relating to him at the time more of a father figure than someone I was in love with. I think all T's and P's should let their patients have hugs if that is what they need, even if transference is involved. I think hugging my P could help.

Hi Tina,
I would save a safe touch hug is one that does not involve any form of touching that the recipient is uncomfortable with, and is initiated and ended by you. Often in childhood sexual abuse we had no control over how often or where we were touched, so to have control over when and where we are touched provides us with safety.

I wanted to comment on hugs in general. My T does not hug and when I asked him if I could have one, we spent a whole session discussing why his answer was no (I didn't ask until I was ready to hear a no, since I was pretty sure that was the answer I would get. But it was important for me to do the asking, and even hearing the no was important. It was a very reparative experience for me to express a need, have it not met and know I could not only survive that but the relationship was still intact. And knowing that my T will say no, allows me to trust his "yes.") But his basic take was that providing a hug carried a fairly high possibility of doing harm without a lot of benefit. And that in my case, withholding the hug helped me to go past it to the pain and loss of not having had the safe physical embraces I craved as a child. I really think his saying no to the hug led to one of our most important and pivotal sessions.

I recently read a article on a Ps blog that explained the whole principal of why a therapist would withhold touch, and I've posted the link below.

I do want to make clear that I don't think there's anything wrong with therapist's who decide to hug. My first T was willing to hug me any time I asked and my present T does shake my hand at the end of every session. I just wanted to also offer a perspective from the other side so to speak.

A Matter of Touch by Jung at Heart

AG

Hi Charlotte,
It's great to hear from you, I'm really glad to hear you're doing so well with both your new T and your old T. I really have so much respect for how he handled things. He made have felt it necessary to refer you but he has obviously stayed involved with your care and is really concerned with your well-being.

AG

Hi

I’m new to this website. I only discovered this site about 2 weeks ago and I am constantly amazed at the insight some of the members here have!

I have a question and wondering if anyone can give me advice / thoughts / opinions.....

Just by way of background, I have been seeing my wonderful T for just under 4 years and we have worked through some major stuff together. I feel I am now dealing in therapy with one final area (but by no means small area!) - which is self-esteem. I feel this question belongs in this “transference” topic because I feel in many ways our issues are often interlinked (ie: transference, attachment issues, unmet needs as a child, self-esteem issues).

My question though is....

What is the end goal of therapy??

Is it that we can now meet our inner childhood needs by providing them to ourselves?; or
Is it that we accept the failings of our parents but can move on – no longer blaming them?; or
Is it as basic as being kind to ourselves?

I am not about to finish therapy anytime soon. I am just wondering what your take is on the topic regarding the end of our therapy journeys

Thanks for reading and I look forward to any words of wisdom!

Cheers!
I’m OK

Hey Everyone,

I still love getting new message reminders in my inbox from this board, everyone was pivotal in my dealing with my therapist/transference stuff.
Oh, its still there..no doubt about it, however, I started dating..a wonderful man. SO, the past 6 weeks my mind has been occupied and I've actually been getting the kind of attention and communication from this new beau that I was looking for. I had this weird feeling that I was making my therapist jealous by telling him about the new boy, but of course, thats all part of it isn't it?
I'm happy I'm currently not obsessing anymore, or thinking of excuses to email.
Last visit we actually left it as "you seem very well, you've come a long way, I am happy for you, why don't you hold off coming here for a while"
I'm Ok with that. He did say he will always worry so make sure I email him to let him know I'm OK.
If anything, he taught me how to really love within a relationship, first time. I've been single for 7 years, its wonderful.
Anyhow, you all are so great here! Thanks.
xo

Hi I'm OK,

That's a tricky question! I think it depends on what brought you to therapy in the first place, and whether you had any specific goals.

With me, I had reached a crossroads in my therapy. I could either start moving towards different issues then ending my therapy or I could go back and pick up the issues i wasn't able to deal with earlier on, and try again. But since i had got to a point where they aren't bothering me so much anymore, I didn't want to risk delving back into them (since last time i attempted suicide and was almost hospitalized). So I feel i am moving forward in the right way for me.

So i guess the end goal is a personal one, and it can change throughout the therapy process. Mine certainly has. The things i still want to work on aren't easy fixes though... self-esteem, rejection, trust, relationships. So I think i'm in the same boat as you there! By the end of my therapy, I want to believe I am a lovable person, feel deserving of happiness, and... well i am not sure yet. But there's more!
What do you feel like your end goal is?
Ooh and where in Australia are you from? If you don't mind me asking - i'm from brissie.

Cassie

I was so happy to find this discussion, and to find that I'm not the only one who has experienced this. I developed a huge crush on my counselor/therapist. My life revolved around her, and I was enmeshed -- couldn't see myself as a separate person from her. I recently chose to see a different therapist because of this; we didn't have very clear boundaries. I felt very defective because of this whole situation. I didn't know anyone else who had gone through this.

I experienced huge grief as I left my old counselor -- and still experience grief sometimes, after 6 weeks or so. I now see myself as a separate person, and feel like I'm getting healthier. Have better boundaries with my new therapist. He's actually the one who told me that this was transference -- and it was a moment of epiphany. I had forgotten about transference -- and that this is really normal, and part of the therapeutic process. I felt so much better after I read everybody else's similar experiences -- so thanks everybody for sharing!

Hi Notalone,
Welcome to the forums, sorry for not responding sooner, I just saw your post. I'm glad that your finding stuff to relate to here. We definitely understand how you're feeling. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to still be grieving after six weeks, I would actually consider that to be a VERY short time. Although I am glad to hear that you're also feeling better with some distance.

If you liked this thread, might I also recommend Update on Transference? It was the thread that led to this one and also has a lot of good info on the topic. And feel free to chime in and ask any questions you have. Looking forward to getting to know you.

Provocative Girl- Welcome to the forum!!!! Post here or start your own post cause I know I will respond and most likely other people will too. I never mind talking about transference because mine is still something that is still going strong and Im still learning and trying to make my way through it. Or if you want you can send a private message too.

Welcome, PG! May I call you that? Yeah, I think we all pretty much deal in one way or another with transference...so jump in, the water's fine. It might seem the topic has dropped off, but I think it is there in between the lines in all the posts...that being said, I for one would be quite happy to talk about it!

BB

Welcome to the forums Provocative Girl! I agree with the others, this topic is discussed tons even if it isn't in this specific thread. Please feel free to add here or post a new thread, you will likely get feedback!