I too have looked for that kind of information but have not found any that was very helpful and I have been searching for many years.

My P told me last session when I finally talked about the transference that talking to him about it was the only way to get it through it. He said the more we talked and the more honest I was about what I was thinking and feeling the less intense the feelings would get and then they would finally change. He said it would probably take a long time. He also said I wouldnt stop needing him, its just the attachment would change to a more healthy attachment that was easier to deal with.

The hardest part for me right now is that I talked to him in session about what was going on and I will continue to do that, but what am I suppose to do outside of therapy and the feelings are so intense and I cant stop thinking about him and need to see him. I cant just go see him and I cant just call him without an emergency. I emailed him that question and he said to wait til next session when we can talk about it in person. He does not want to deal with the transference through email or through phone calls. He wants it to be in person. But I hate the idea of waiting a month to learn how to deal with it better.

It is during those times that my anxiety gets worse and the depression starts to set back in and I feel like cutting just to get my mind off of my P because I know its wrong to be thinking about him the way I do. But I do not know how to make it stop. I know hearing his voice will always help but I dont know if its okay to call and say I am calling because of the transference. I can deal in therapy with it, just need the outside of therapy answers!

I would love to hear how it has been resolved, how often and how successfully.

I developed a strong attachment to my son's T last fall. I talked with her a few times about it and it only made the feelings stronger. Before we could really work on it my son had to switch Ts and here I am, 4 1/2 months later, and I'm not sure that my feelings are any less intense.

For awhile it wasn't as hard and I wasn't thinking about her as much, but now I see it was probably only because I was dealing with some intense marital issues. Now that I have resolved that issue (in my mind at least) the feelings are coming back strong again.

I see my son's former T once or twice a month - she works at his school and we go to the same parents' meeting - so maybe that is making it harder to get over. Not that I would ever want to not see her, I'm afraid that would make it worse.

When I told her about my feelings and told her I wanted to be friends, she reciprocated and told me she would love to be friends with me if we hadn't met under these circumstances, and she told me there was a 2-year no friendship policy for clients and their family members. She apologized and said she was not very good about keeping the boundaries very tight with me, because she enjoyed my company and talking to me, and that could be why I started to develop the attachment.

Now I find myself counting down those two years, wondering if we will be friends. I am not very good at making friends, and with her, it seemed so easy to develop a comfort level and we have been able to have great conversations, something that's been missing in my life for a long time. As the months pass, I notice our relationship changing - it is not all about me and my son anymore - and while I am glad it is progressing like this, it also makes me want the friendship thing to happen even more.

OW

My P did not say how long it would take. Whether a "long time" means months or years, I guess wont know until it is over with. In a way I want it to be quick but at the same I want it to take a long time because I am still having trouble with the idea of giving it all up. I dont want to loose it but I guess that will change over time. But he did say the length of time would also depend on how honest I am with him about it.

I am so willing to be honest but I dont think it is fair that I need to come and see him once a month and talk about the transference and all the feelings I have for him, but during the month in between I am left to deal with it all on my own and am expected to do the right thing. I think I should at least get some type of support from him in between sessions dealing with it, at least in the beginning stages of dealing with it.

Right now all I know is that the feelings are so intense and I am sitting here thinking about him and even went and found a picture of him on the internet and am staring at it trying to come up with any reason at all to have a good reason to call him. I really dont want to call and say what is really going on and why I am calling so I am trying to come up with some type of emergency to call him about. Havent figured one out yet though.

Right now I cant afford to see him more than once a month because its a $150 per session. I am already over a thousand behind and he still lets me come when I cant pay. After we get some bills paid off we can maybe afford more and I know my P would be willing to let me come more because every time we set up the session he asks if I can make it a month or do I need it sooner.

My P is not big on any therapy over the phone unless it is an emergency and we need to talk about meds or I am going to cut or something like that. And the conversations has to be short. I wish he would just let me talk to him when I need to hear his voice. I did go ahead and text him tonight and asked him if he could just tell me how to deal with the transference outside of sessions cause it was getting hard. He wrote back and said no. He said there was no real answer that you just find a way to get over it by talking about it in session and not out of session. But at least getting the text back helped the feelings some.

The feelings are a little worse right now because my husband left town four days ago and wont be back for two weeks. And since my P knows that I can get away with texting him over this without making him mad.

I will often call my P and act like I have a question about meds even though I have not started back on them which I was suppose to do a week ago or I will tell him my anxiety is really bad and I want to cut, but that wont work right now because I cut myself yesterday and he was pretty clear about the instructions on the meds a weeks ago. I need a new emergency. But I guess I will make it through tonight by rereading the text over and over again and staring at his picture.

Pippi,

When my feelings in regards to my son's former T get strong, I take my journal out and just write about her. What I like about her, how painful it is to not be able to be friends, why I want to be friends, how she makes me feel. Things like that. I don't know if it will work for you, but it does help me get by day-to-day.

quote:

OW, do you think the loose boundaries and the expressed interest in being your friend caused your feelings to intensify? I think my feelings definitely intensified as my P expressed his feelings about me.

Summer, I really think if she wouldn't have reciprocated I would have been devastated. I was expecting her to reciprocate. Ours was a different relationship than a T or a P and a client, because she was my son's T and she works at his school. I always felt like she was part of a team helping my son, which also included me and his teachers. We met and talked via phone or email weekly or even more often. I always felt a connection, but the feelings got a lot more intense when my son's behavioral issues caused some family trauma last year, and then the marital issues roared their ugly head at the same time. She was the only person I felt like I could go to, so I did. She helped me through a really tough time, she went above and beyond what she needed to do as my son's T.

To get back to your question, I felt really, really good for a couple of days and then I crashed. I wanted even more to be her friend and obsessed over why that couldn't happen and tried to figure out ways it could happen, despite the rules. I was mad at the boundaries, and then started worrying about her way more than I did before. When I found out my son wouldn't be seeing her anymore, I was devastated. I couldn't imagine not talking to her every week, emailing her or calling her throughout the week.

But I think her not reciprocating may have made it worse, especially for my confidence and self-esteem. I sensed that she enjoyed my company, and that she was not keeping the boundaries like my former Ts had. She really seemed more like a friend to me at times than a therapist. So had I found out she was only doing that as part of her job, that I was just another client, and that she didn't have feelings for me, I would have been crushed.

So there really wasn't anything she could have done at that point to make it easier on me. And, I'm glad she was there in my life when I needed her the most. I'm not upset that she didn't keep the boundaries, because I really think it was exactly what I needed. I haven't had any really good friends in a long time, and she reminded me how good it felt.

Your situation is different from mine - because I still have contact and will have ongoing contact with her, even though it's not nearly as much as I would like. I'm not sure how I would deal with never talking to her again. I really feel for you and what you're going through.

OW

Hey All- It's a good discussion you have going here. I appreciate everyone's honesty and just wanted you all to know that. I'm sorry we all hurt so much... especially in the longing, aching way we do for our T's. It is torturous and painful and awful.

I'd like to share some of my transference stuff with you guys, because I feel as though it's changing... in a hard but good way. I'm not sure if you are familiar with much of my background, so I will provide a brief summary so what I say makes sense. I've been experiencing intense forms of maternal and erotic transference since I was in the 7th grade. I was "in love" and "obsessed with" several female teachers all through junior high and high school. The pain of it all, and my life in general, drove me to cutting (which i don't do anymore but still crave at times). One of the transference experiences turned physical- maternally and sexually. It was all very confusing and painful. You can say that "I finally got what i wanted all along." This person would hold me and love me and treat me as if I was her child. But she also let me meet her needs. i felt special and cherished and loved for the first real time ever. It was amazing... but it wasn't based in reality and it couldn't last. She was married, I was young and it all felt like each of us was yearning for something deeper than the other could give. Don't get me wrong, the love was real, but it wasn't based on real life... does that make sense?

As I was forced out of this relationship (gently and as graciously as possible), I finally found myself in therapy! I got a name for transference and realized i would have to go through it again with my T in order to heal any of this. So we embarked on a journey together, knowing I would obsess over her, want to take care of her, want to be taken care of, want to be held, etc... it has been the most difficult process EVER because she is the first person EVER to withhold any boundaries with me. She will not hug or hold me, she will not allow any sort of physical touch whatsoever, she will not react to my threats of starting cutting again and she will not engage in my learned manipulative games. She is the only person who hasn't felt sorry for me and tried to fill in what my mother could not/would not give me.

In doing this- not reacting to me and trying to save me- she is helping me save me. I don't know if that makes any sense, but I finally feel like i am getting to the gut-wrenching core of my transference issues with her- with everyone. It awful and hard and embarrassing, but I hold steadfastly to her notion that if I can get through this with her, i won't ever have to do it again. So i have held very little back from her. I have told her everything from urning for her to be my mother to wanting to have sex with her on the couch in her office... most of this in letters, btw. I have told her and told her that I want her to be my mom and hold me and tuck me in and kiss me goodnight and read me stories-- all of it. And i haven't told her just once. i tell her as often as i feel i need to because the fact that i am still wanting something tells me that i need that part to be heard still. I need her to hear me and I need for this relationship not to change because of the things i say. i need her to be the same no matter what.

For me, the core seems to be knowing that I don't change becuase my emotions change. And people don't stop loving and caring and being themselves because their states change. It's about me learning that I can be angry AND be loveable or sad AND loveable. So no matter what I do, no matter what i say or what I threaten or what I cry over... she looks at me the same way, with the same accepting eyes and says goodbye in the same, empathic way. She will not break the rules for me because that is NOT what i need. I'm finding now that i don't think about her 24/7 like i used to... and i don't search the internet for info about her or look for her family members on facebook or drive by her office as much. Alot of the peace that i am finding lies in knowing that i exist to her when i am not around- that when i am at home struggling, she still may think of me and wonder how i am doing. I am not some number on a chart or a quota to be met- I am real to her and have meaning even when I am not with her. It is very hard to think about but i truly believe the more honset we can be, the more healing we can achieve. The more they know the more they can help us discover and understand. And they can help us grieve what we didn't get that causes these longings we have in us now. And the best thing, they can teach us how to be kind to ourselves and take care of ourselves, which is the next-best thing to them doing it for us- and a little more appropriate long term!

Pippi- I'm sorry you can only see your P once a month. i know it must be hard and painstaking. But i hope that you find some peace soon. I encourage you to write letters to your P or draw or something- something to get the tension out of you that drives you to cut. Sometimes i call my t and just leave messages- just so she knows I am having a hard time without requiring a response from her. Would your P allow that? I know this pain feels never ending, but please trust that there is more in this than the pain. I know opting to love yourself feels exactly opposite of what you have done your whole life, but when you can see that you don't deserve the punishment and hatred you administer yourself, it will be a beautiful day. I know this may sound strange, but i actually tried cutting when I got really low a few months ago... after not doing it for almost 5 years... and it actually didn't provide me with any relief. It was strangely disappointing but so very freeing in the long run.

I hope my thoughts here provide some (much needed) hope that this isn't a life-sentence. I am nowhere near the end of this, and still feel very strongly and attached to my t, but if we can manage to relate our desires to our past wants/needs/patterns, I think we can feel what we need to feel, grieve what we need to grieve and move forward, carrying a piece of our t/p's with us forever. It isn't easy and it isn't pretty and it isn't really all that fun, but it is life-giving if we can bear the pain and loss of it all.

-CT
(wow, sorry about length here! you'd think i was writing a book!)

CT,

You always amaze me with how articulate you are!

How long have you been seeing your T?

I'm impressed with your capacity for honesty about such painful and embarrassing issues.

I think we are twins, or actually triplets, because I have a twin already, separated at birth. I, too, was exploited by an older woman who played a maternal role with me. She was a youth group leader in my church when I was a teenager, and I got into a 7 year relationship with her. It really screwed me up. This, and other things, drove me to cutting. See the similarities?

Thanks for sharing your experience with transference and how you deal with it. It's exciting to see that maybe there's hope. Has your therapist suggested that you just keep talking about it, and that that's how you deal with it to come to a place of healing?

catgirl

Oh yeah, CT, you mentioned the boundaries. Yesterday, my T said that she had to particularly maintain boundaries with me because of my transferene issues. I think that no matter how badly I want the boundaries to be bent, it would really screw me up. I would think, "Maybe she wants to adopt me, that's why she's bending the rules," and it would confuse and complicate what's going on with me.

Thank you CG! I'm glad you find my posts to be articulate! And i do think I'm your lost triplet! We have an eerie amount of things in common!

quote:

How long have you been seeing your T?

I have been in therapy with my T for just over a year now.

quote:

Has your therapist suggested that you just keep talking about it, and that that's how you deal with it to come to a place of healing?

Hasn't suggested it really, but moreso implied it. She's not big on having a plan or structure. She maintains things will come up as they need to and will work out as we keep digging and working... which both does and doesn't provide much comfort! She did also say that "a watched pot never boils" which I took to mean that if I stand around starting at a particular part of me, waiting for it to change and heal, that it will feel like nothing is happening.

I have asked her for direction and if I should focus in any particular area, but she wants me to think less and feel more. She's also big on grief- grieving what I can't ever get- so we tend to just go where i take us. i bring up the transference talk as needed, and i work really hard to make connections to what I react to now vs. what I experienced as a kid. It's all about her being a blank slate for me to project onto and me projecting and reacting and telling her about it. It's all so vague, but i don't think i want to know when it will end. This is the closest I will ever get to having a real, loving mother, and i want to enjoy it for what it is.

And i think your t is wise about the boundaries. Bent rules feel good until you see why the rule was there in the first place!

-CT

Summer~ I thought the same thing about his answer. He kind of told me that for every patient it is different but the one thing in common is the talking about it, so he cant just give me an answer and say "do this and it will be fixed." Which I am trying to understand, but its hard for me. I want things to change as soon as I start working on them. We tried seeing a therapist for me and my daughter through a reduced fee place here and it caused way more problems. They tried to make us loose custody of our kids because my daughter has some problems. Luckily they didnt succeed but we got away from there. We found my daugher a new great therapist at the advocacy center but havent got me one yet.

OW~ Journaling just might help. I am really into writing and maybe that could help get the feelings out and maybe even be something I can take to session and show my P what is really going on.

CT~ I will have to ask my P about being able to call. I have his cell phone number and he usually doesnt answer right away when I call because I do have a history of calling for made up excuses that I dont really need to talk to him about. But he always listens to the message and decides if it is something he needs to call back about. He also doesnt really answer the emails I send but I know he reads them because he brings up what I said sometimes in phone calls, texts or in session. But I am going to try to ask him about calling and leaving messages even if he doesnt call back, then I would hear his voice on the message and still be telling him what is going on and it would be his decision to call back or not.

What you wrote really does help because I have a history much like yours of being in love with teachers, principals, youth directors and guy who came even close to acting like a father figure to me. It started the first time when I was 7. I have never been as honest to tell my P when I am sitting there with him that I was thinking that I wanted to have sex with him right there, but I am need to be that honest.


I also do talk to my old high school psychologist which I also have transference issues towards about all of this. He is not my T but we talk through email once a week, no phone contact or anything else, except once every six months he sees me in person. But he does let me call his work phone and listen to his voice mail message any time I need to and I can leave him a message but he will never call back but at least he knows what is going one. And I write him every Thursday and he writes me back on Fridays. He is really trying to help me through all of this and I have told him that I want to have sex with him, but it was so much easier doing it through email. But the difference is I also know that he will never get mad at me for anything I say as long as I am being honest, and he will never stop letting me write him cause I have been doing it once a week since I graduated in 2001. But I have thanked him many time for holding to his boundaries and not giving into my manipulation or requests for the things I wanted and thought I needed when he knew it would hurt me instead of help. Sometimes it hurts when he tells me no but it always makes me feel safer to hear him say it to me.

I'm curious if any of you have been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder? Throughout my transference research, I have read various places that very strong transference reactions often come with the territory of BPD. It seems to me that seeing a T or P with expertise in BPD may lend more answers.

Of course not everyone that has a transference reaction has BPD and vice versa. I do not have BPD and I had transference though mine had a distinct psychological etiology. We are all different...

Anyway, I hope I am not upsetting anyone. I just thought it might be something to bring to the discussion.

SG

Pippi,

When I need a "fix" and I don't have an appointment, I call and ask my therapist to leave a message on my cell phone voicemail. It's always pertinent to what we have been discussing, and encouraging. (She really has a way with words.) I replay it whenever I need to. After a few weeks, I've heard it enough, or my voicemail system erases it, and I ask for another one. She is always willing to do this for me. It's helpful, because I have her voice saying kind, encouraging things to me at my fingertips. I also sometimes just call and leave a brief message telling her how I feel. I try to limit this to once a week, because if everyone did it, she'd be listening to messages all day. I don't need a response, I don't ask for a response, I just want to feel connected, so I call and tell her what's going on with me. She's okay with all of this. Believe me, I've asked her numerous times. In fact, I think that she thinks it's part of my healing, this need to be connected and having this need fulfilled to the highest capacity that it can be given the confines of this relationship. I wonder if your guy would be willing to do this for you.

Sprinting Gal,

My T says that I do not have any personality disorders. But, it is curios about the correlation between BPD and big transference issues.

CT,

You brought up the grief thing. I think that's a huge step in healing, grieving what we didn't get as a child. Through grieving comes acceptance. If we can accept that we didn't get what we needed, then maybe, just maybe, we won't have to keep attaching to every mother figure or father figure or whatever that walks in the door.

My question is, how do you grieve it? I think I started to go there about a month ago, then I ran away quickly. My mom died. My dad died. I have separated from my husband. Believe me, I know how to grieve. This grief, however, is something that eludes me. I can't grasp it the same way I grasped the other losses. I wish I could just grieve the whole thing and move on.

BTW, I decided to start calling it attachment instead of transference, because that's really what it is no matter where it originated. It's a painful, longing, embarrassing, strong attachment.

catgirl

I will ask my P about the phone calls thing when I see him next. I always have a hard time asking for what I want or need in person because I am scared of getting told no. But I need to do it.

I have been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. My therapist diagnosed me with that 10 years ago when I first started seeing her and my P. I have done a lot of research on it and think I am completely BPD in every way possible, and it does show that they usually do have strong transference issues.

hey everyone, this is my first post here.

pippi, have you ever tried holding ice cubes in your hands when you feel like cutting? it could be a way to experience physical pain but without any tissue damage. or you could hold ice to the area where you normally cut; of course, holding ice doesn't offer that same burning sensation that cutting does, but it's something.

i'm in therapy now and while i don't have erotic transference for my current therapist, i did have a rather intense transference/countertransference w/ my previous therapist. we terminated our therapy about 8 months ago and i'm still dealing w/ my feelings for her.

to address sprintinggal's question, my previous therapist did mention that i have some "borderline items," but insisted on not labeling me as such; she also (very reluctantly and only after i queried her) conceded that i have bipolar disorder. there are a lot of overlapping symptoms between bipolar and borderline disorder, it's a common comorbidity (to the point where some want to include borderline on a bipolar spectrum), so it wasn't too hard for me to accept that i have both. plus, she was so adamant in saying that these do not label me, don't own me, don't sum me up or limit me, that it was much easier for me to accept this diagnosis than it otherwise might have been.

anyway, i don't mean to get tangential w/ diagnosing. pippi, have your therapist and/or psychiatrist utilized dialectical behavioral therapy w/ you? my previous therapist and i used a dbt workbook in our sessions and i have to say that it helped me a lot. i was able to recognize patterns in how i process things and react to situations; slowly i was able to change my behavior. it's still very difficult and i often have trouble because of my moodiness but at least now i'm able to recognize my moods, take a step back, and keep from acting impulsively (well, for the most part!).

I have tried the ice cube thing and a bunch of other stuff that just doesnt work for me. The good thing is that I am not cutting that often. I actually had made it five years without cutting before screwing up a year ago. I know I will be able to stop again and was doing really good until I found out I was pregnant and we had to stop my meds that were working so great, so I no longer had depression meds or anxiety meds. Luckily I am in the process of getting back on my depression meds and hopefully that will help.

My old therapist used DBT therapy. I wish I could still see her but she also costs $150 a session and that would be weekly instead of monthly and there is no way I could afford it. Plus I live an hour away from her and my P and I can make the trip once or twice a month but couldnt drive down there every week now that my daughter is in school.

I was also diagnosed once with Bipolar but I didnt really believe it as much and the BPD just because the BPD fit me perfectly. Everything it talks about with BPD I have. But I also have OCD which does not help with the transference because I get stuck on the thoughts just like I do with other OCD issues. And having anxiety also doesnt help because when it gets bad then I have to hear his voice to calm the anxiety down that comes from the OCD and everything else. Those three things are not a good combination.

SG - I have not been diagnosed with BPD. I have been diagnosed with mild chronic depression.

Summer - For 2 1/2 years it was all about my son. So for that period, we did sort of develop a mutual relationship in helping him. I like to research things too so I actually emailed her articles about the latest research, and often knew more than she did on a particular topic, so it wasn't like she was all knowledgeable and I was just following what she said. It really was mutual.

Then, we had a pretty traumatic incident happen with my son last summer that stirred up a lot of my childhood memories. She was the one I went to first about him, she was the expert in a world I was complete oblivious too. We then started talking a little bit about how it was affecting me - she really opened the door for this conversation by telling me how difficult it was going to be, and that I needed to get support somewhere, and she told me I could talk to her, so I took her up on her offer.

It took about 2 months for the attachment to really hit me, but I didn't say anything for about a month. By the time I told her, my feelings were pretty intense already, and I had done my research so I was not surprised by her reaction or the two-year rule. Sometimes I wish maybe she would have just told me about the two-year rule and not told me she would love to be friends with me (although then I would have obsessed wondering what she thought of me, really). It really bothers me that she likes me enough to be friends, I like her enough to be friends, but we can't because of this rule. So I'm not sure my feelings toward her intensified, but my fear of losing her did, especially since I knew we would not be seeing her when my son switched therapists, which we knew was coming soon.

I guess if I really think about it, it has gotten easier. There are times I don't think about it at all, which is a huge change. The past week or so it's been gotten intense again, and my guess is because I'm not obsessing over my marriage anymore so it's resurfacing.

I can't really blame her for not keeping strict boundaries, since our relationship didn't start out like a therapist/client relationship. (I think your situation is so similar.) We even talked about this not being the ideal situation last summer, because we had the established relationship, but she knew I didn't have money to see anyone on my own and she knew I really needed the support.

It does feel really good knowing that I can email her and run into her. Sometimes I stop at the school and talk to my son's teacher when I could just call on the phone or email, but his classroom is right next to her room, so I'm pretty sure I'll run into her. Next year is going to be harder, though, because my son will be in a different school. But then, maybe it's prolonging the agony?

quote:

The clock is ticking...just isn't fair when you make a connection with someone and it has to end like this.

I know exactly what you mean. I am so sorry you have to go through this loss. When I asked my new therapist how what I was going to do (when I knew my son was switching), she said, "You're going to have to suffer through the loss." She was so right.

I think you're handling it all very well, and I'm pretty confident you will get through it, from the things you've written and the way you're looking at all this.

CT - I am so glad you are finding some relief - it sounds like you have a wonderful T, perfect for you.

Pippi - Journaling has been very helpful to me. And I bring my entire journal in for my T to read during the week so we can talk about it at our next session. It's been incredibly helpful.

OW

quote:

I then realized the finality of it all. Would I be dead to him once I walked out the door.

Yikes, Summer! He certainly didn't word that very well, did he? This is definitely something that I am struggling with as I only have six more session left. On one hand, the desperate need that I felt for my T (formed from the assumption that he would complete me, or save me) has slowly waned, but I am not happy about having to say goodbye for precisely the reason that I would be dead to him. It is strange to know that someone I shared so many intimate moments with over the last couple years will walk out of my life forever. My last T didn't mind the twice yearly updates I'd send via email (just little newsy notes, wishing him well, etc) and he'd respond back in kind. This one...I'm not so sure it will work that way. I suppose I'll just ask him in our next session. He said that he's going to try to find a therapist at the clinic who would be a good fit but said that he cannot make any promises that whoever he selects will be someone that I could stick with during the summer. Bleh -- knowing that my therapy will be in flux for the next several months is nothing to savor.

pippi:

that's good you're not cutting. i know holding ice cubes isn't that same, and doesn't offer the same release, but it's still better than cutting.

there's a workbook called don't let your emotions run your life by scott spradlin. i used it w/ my previous therapist and i still read it a lot and use the methods in it. it's essentially based on being mindful, which is based on zen buddhism, which i've also really gotten into lately and it makes a lot of sense to me after learning and utilizing dbt. zen helps me a lot w/ accepting my emotions, sitting w/ them, and finally being able to let them go. anyway, the good thing about bpd is that it lessens w/ age and nearly everyone who has it "grows out of it" eventually.

as for my own transference, i still miss my therapist. i think about her every day (it's been eight months). my current therapist will bring her up, but i tend to avoid the topic. i know i should talk about it, but it's . . . i just don't know what to say about it. i have questions, but there are no answers, so i don't see the point. when i ask my current therapist "what do you think she meant when she said this or what?" my therapist just says that she can't say because she doesn't know her. well, duh, of course, but still. i wish for some sort of insight. months and months later i'm still really confused.

quote:

Originally posted by QueenGrey:
[QUOTE]
I then realized the finality of it all. Would I be dead to him once I walked out the door.

Maybe not. I've been talking a lot with my T about the transference stuff the past couple of weeks. I've talked a lot about how I don't like that I walk in the door, talk, pay her money, then leave, then it's done for a few days until we see each other again, and how I hate that when therapy is over, the relationship is over. She is so kind and caring! She talked about how she supports me, and how she will continue to support me, even when I don't see her weekly anymore. She said, "After you no longer need me, I'll still be cheering you on. I'm your cheerleader, and will continue to be so." This was so reassuring. For the moment, it helped with the fear of termination. Why don't you ask your T how he thinks of clients who have terminated. You might be surprised. (But I understand your fear.)

Summer,
Sorry that it seems that you're not getting this. You don't know all of the details, but I'm sure that you feel like he's pretty much forgotten about you. That's a huge fear for most of us. Sorry that you are experiencing this.

catgirl

Hey Sprinting Gal- Just wanted to let you know that I don't have a BPD diagnosis. I'm not even sure what my diagnosis is... but I know that isn't it because we talked about it.

-CT

hey summer! thanks for the welcome.

i was w/ my previous therapist for 10 months. we started in november of '07 and ended in late august of '08. she was a grad student at a clinic at a local university, so we were roughly the same age (i was 26 when we started therapy together), although i never knew for sure because she was very strict about divulging personal information. i admit that i found her really attractive when we met, but i didn't think anything of it. i have a lot of beautiful female friends and my boss at the time was attractive also, so i guess i didn't think it'd pose a problem. so i figured it'd be the same w/ my therapist. plus, my ex-girlfriend is a therapist and we had broken up just a few months prior to me starting therapy, so i admit i kind of had some, um, negative biases toward therapists at the time (read: i thought they were all freaks when they were "off duty"). i primarily went because my moodiness was beginning to affect my job performance and i sort of felt obligated to talk to someone about it. so my plan was to go, see what kind of ineffectual n00b they set me up w/ (at this particular clinic, they assign someone to you, you don't get to pick), then cease after a few sessions, telling my friends and family that it "just didn't work out."

needless to say, that wasn't exactly how things panned out.

so yeah, i found her attractive, but really, looks have little to do w/ it. she could be dumb, callous, incompetent, etc--anything that would give me an excuse to stop going. and trust me, that's really all i was looking for at this point: for her to mess up in some way and confirm my negative impression of therapists. but she didn't. in fact, we really hit it off. our rapport was immediate and easy. at the end of our first session, she asked me how it went for me and i joked, "ugh, it was horrible," and without missing a beat she said, "i know, me too." then we just grinned at each other and she walked me out. i thought, okay, sure, she's cooler than i thought she'd be, but i set the bar pretty low, so i figured i'd give her a few more chances. i returned next week and our second session also went well. it was still mostly intake, her just asking me questions, but i felt comfortable w/ her. at the end of *that* session i said, "know what i like about you?" and she said, "hmm?" and i said, "so far i haven't had to explain when i'm joking--you just get it." and she grinned and said, "i know, i'm kind of sarcastic, too." she then said that "maybe our senses of humor could be something that connects us" and i nodded and said, "yeah, maybe." so at this point i was impressed. she seemed smart, engaging, and had a compatible sense of humor w/ mine.

the next two months set the tone for the rest of our time together. she would spend our sessions trying to get me to open up and i would spend them being evasive. i would say stuff like, "can we go for a walk?" or "wouldn't it be cool if we were friends? i know that you know that i'm totally awesome and fun to be around." in other words, i wasn't taking it seriously. she would say stuff like, "pm, what can i do to get you to open up to me? how can i show you that i care?" to which i would either make a joke or say something cutting like, "oh c'mon, it's your job to 'care' but you don't really." she would always say something about how i was challenging her or resisting her. which, she was right, i did. i wanted to be her friend, but then things started changing. she would frequently bring up my ex-girlfriend and would often compare herself to her. and i got bored w/ making jokes all the time, so instead i would just sit there and not say anything (i wasn't prepared to open up just yet). then we would enter, like, 5-10 minute phases of just staring at each other. now, i know that eye contact is important in therapy, but this was not regular eye contact. it was as if nothing and no one else in the world existed save me and her and the space between us. i began to wonder if something else was being communicated when we *didn't* say anything; something deeper. i compare the eye contact w/ her and the eye contact w/ my current therapist and they're not at all the same. my current t will maintain eye contact w/ me, even when i look away, but i don't feel her eyes *burning* into me like i did w/ my previous therapist. the eye contact actually began to make me nervous, to the point where i'd look away or shift in my chair. but i could always feel her eyes on me. i even said this to her, that it made me nervous when she would just sit there and stare, but she wouldn't stop. she would say, "so it makes you nervous when i stare at you?" and i'd say, "yes!" and would just. keep. doing it.

one day, when we were talking about my exes, i asked her why she was always bringing them up (as opposed to other topics, like family or work) and she said, "because what happens out there can play out in here." i didn't say anything to this because i wasn't sure what to think. sure, theoretically, what happens "out there" can play out in therapy, but not necessarily. and why that? why would a romantic relationship play out between us? keep in mind, we were talking about my past relationships when she said that. it's not like we were talking about my mother and she suggested that she would become a maternal figure to me; it was specifically in regards to romantic relationships.

then one day our session had sort of come to a standstill. it hit its typical roadblock of me just being unable to open up to her. she asked me what she could do; could she say anything? what did i need from her? i told her that i wasn't sure. i said that it's just hard for me to open up to someone, to trust them, to let them get close. she said, "was it like this w/ your other girlfriends too?" and i was like, whoa, what? i didn't actually *say* this, but i was totally thinking it. i was so thrown by this that i really don't remember what i said in response, probably just something like "yes" or some sort of agreement. i left the session that day not sure what to think of what she said. i replayed the conversation in my head over and over, trying to parse something from it. was it just some sort of casual slip? was she just not thinking? we weren't talking about my ex-girlfriends--why did she bring them up? why did she blatantly compare herself to them? it was all super confusing and i wasn't sure what to do. at this point i was beginning to feel attached to her, and i was starting to count the days till our next session. my mood had been going down and one day i finally opened up to her and told her how sad i had been feeling. i told her how lonely i was, how i ached to be close to someone, how hard it was for me to sleep, how i longed to shut my mind off for just 5 minutes so i could close my eyes and rest. i told her how restless i was feeling and how impulsive i was and how i hated feeling so lonely and depressed. my eyes were downcast as i was saying this to her but i looked up up suddenly because she was very quiet and i thought, oh god, she fell asleep! but she had this look on her face . . . like *she* was going to cry. at that moment i thought, oh crap . . . this isn't going to end easily, i know it.

anyway, that was just in the first month-and-a-half-two months or so. i could go on but i'm new here and don't want to wear out my welcome!

summer, you're right: only your p can give you the real insight you need, but another therapist can also offer an objective, impartial take. my current therapist is doing this for me. luckily, i don't have any romantic feelings for her, so that's not an issue and it hasn't been something to get in the way. and while she doesn't know my last therapist, and while this makes her guarded and diplomatic in her assessment, she has given me very real, concrete insight into what happened between me and my last t. i would wholeheartedly recommend talking to someone else about this if you feel up to it.

i want to add one more thing. my ex is a therapist and i always used to tease her about her clients having crushes on her. my ex is a very pretty blonde 25-year-old w/ big green eyes--it's a given some of her clients will have transference for her. but her response to my teasing her always astounded me: she totally downplayed it. she would literally say crap like, "no, no, that would never happen." and i was just like, "wow, seriously?" i really got the sense that she was maybe ill-equipped to deal w/ this sort of thing. or that maybe her training just downplayed it or skimmed over it. i think therapists-in-training are just sort of told over and over again that there are strict boundaries and that overstepping them in any way is bad. this makes talking about transference/countertransference really tricky because in one sense you're supposed to explore it, but then in another sense, exploring it "too much" might ramp up the emotions and lead to awkward (and potentially dangerous) places.

Plasma Machine,

Welcome to the boards! I'm glad you're here and I appreciate you opening up to us. Trust me, I don't think it's possible to "wear out your welcome here." I'd like to hear more of your story... if/when you're interested in sharing... like how and why things ended with your old t and how you found your new t.

I certainly understand why you have some issues with your last t, she definitely sent some mixed messages... and in very rapid succession. I mean, it's one thing to be comfused with a comment or two that our t's say, but it seems like the comments just kept coming and coming. I can only imagine how overwhelmed you must have felt!

And btw, I totally get what you mean about the importance of you're t's sense of humor. It's so nice when you click with someone on that level- it's almost like they can disarm us some by engaging in the sarcasm (if that makes sense). That's one of the things I love about my t- I told her once that i didn't "want to play with her anymore" and she retorted with "fine then, just be that way!" Do you have same kind of connection with your new t?

Glad you're here!

-CT

PM

Your first therapist seems to have been fumbling with an attempt to produce transference. I know that I often see my T as my father, my X, and sometimes myself. It's funny how all of that plays out. Of course, he doesn't say, "You are seeing me as your father right now." I have to figure that out for myself. Clearly, due to disclosure issues, I know nothing about my T other than the basics (male, white, doctoral student, late 20s) so it is apparent to me that I attribute a lot of feelings and thoughts to him that other people have, or a I project my own onto him. This is a part of the healing process - and probably why your x-T was trying to tease out your feelings for her in a comparative way. Does this make sense? In other words, she wasn't afraid to touch transference issues, she was straining to make them apparent when you were either A) not feeling attracted to her sexually (like a girlfriend), or B) not ready to acknowledge them. Either way, she missed the mark, no?

I think that I agree with everyone in this forum, every therapist needs to read "In Session" because it describes transference from the client's point of view. I also agree with you in regards to your X, to deny that it is happening, or to view it as a clinical side-effect, could indeed lead to awkward and potentially dangerous situations. As in your case, you stop feeling helped and more confused.

ct:

thanks for the welcome. you're terrific. yeah, i was very confused about things she said; er, i'm STILL confused about things she said. i'm just trying to accept the confusion because i'm not sure there are any answers. and maybe she was confused about what she was doing or how she felt--i don't know.

i do have a good rapport w/ my current t and we do laugh from time to time in our sessions but it isn't like it was w/ my previous therapist. i know it sounds a bit nutty, but i really felt like there was some kind of "connection" between us. she said she felt there was one too, but i guess the *kind* of connection was different for both of us. during session, my previous t was pretty serious, so we'd tease each other before or after sessions. one time, we walked into the room and i found a box of kleenex on my chair; i moved it aside and she goes, "those are for you" and winked at me, haha. (they were just left there from a previous client.) it was funny because i rarely cried (well, at that point, anyway). another time, we were talking about my new case worker and i was telling her how he told me that if i ever needed someone to talk to or whatever, that i could always call him. she started talking about how that wasn't "entirely ethical" because *she* was my therapist and i shouldn't be calling or talking to anyone else. then she started criticizing him over some things i told her about him (e.g., he had past drug problems before he became a case worker), which was unprecedented because she never outright criticized anyone like that before. i said, "hmm, is somebody a touch jealous?" grinning at her, and she was all, "no, it's not that, it's just--" then i interrupted her and said, "don't worry, i won't cheat on you" and she got a little flushed and just reiterated her points about how she was my therapist, he was just my case worker, etc., etc. i'm such a shameless flirt. :P

qg:

you know, i asked her if the reason she was so firm about not telling me anything about herself was to facilitate transference and she said, "honestly, no. but that's an interesting theory." so i sort of dropped it at that point.

the thing is, *why* did she strain to make those feelings apparent when even i wasn't aware of them? yeah, i found her attractive, but i never told her this. sure, i joked w/ her and playfully flirted, but i'm a shameless flirt and she knew that. she also joked back w/ me. my current t asked me if i think she did this on purpose, if i feel that she "tricked" me into having feelings for her and i don't feel that way. really, i don't, but still i wonder why she seemed to steer our relationship in that direction. you're right, though: she fumbled a bit. my current t got mad about this during one session. she said that while she doesn't think my ex-therapist did anything wrong on purpose, she does think she made some big errors and did not handle things well. she got mad once, i called her on it, and she paused and said, "yes. it does make me angry. it wasn't handled the way it should've been. she was very enticing. seductive, really. she dangled the carrot but she knew you couldn't have any." but anyway, i'm getting a bit ahead of myself since i haven't told even half of the story yet (and this is only half from *my* perspective!)

one more thing: is "in session" for everyone or really just women? i'm a dude and i've heard of the book before, but i also heard it was specifically for women clients.

btw qg: i made the mistake of telling my ex-girlfriend (we were friends after we broke up) about my transference. i won't get into it now, but i'll just say that she was not at all pleased and had zero empathy.

Hi Plasma machine and welcome. I know you will find support and comfort here. I was wondering if you were a guy but you never actually said until this post. Not that it matters, but in reading your posts I was just trying to clarify things in my mind.

As for In Session... the subtitle of the book is "The Bond Between Women and their Therapists" so I'm not sure how much would apply to your situation... But... it does discuss the approximate relationship between client and therapist and that maybe helpful to you. It talks about how this relationship is different than any other you will have and how frustrating it can be.

I'm a female who has strong loving feeling for my male T. I also have attachment issues and have attached to him. I've been seeing him for over a year now and he knows how I feel. I think we have been doing some good work but at times I slam into the boundaries and become frustrated and sad - grieving what I cannot have with him.

I know you said that you have only shared half your story so far. Please share as much as you are comfortable with. We are here to listen.

TN

PM
My bad! I wrongly assumed you were female. <blush> I agree with TN, you might still find some information in the book. Russ suggested a blog that I think is helpful to any sex, so try this link.

PM,

Welcome to the forum! I've been following your story, though not really responding as I've been ill. It sounds like your therapist really messed around with you, and didn't hold tight boundaries. That's something that we've been discussing off and on here, is the boundary issue. While it's painful for a therapist to keep strong boundaries, it keeps us safe and protected.

I wrote a letter to my therapist describing her boundaries. I said, "I'm afraid to bump into walls and sharp corners, and then when I do, I realize that they're soft like a pillow. It doesn't hurt so much, because the boundaries are the boundaries of love. They're the boundaries of your love for me." Thinking about her boundaries in this way has made it feel okay that she has boundaries. She has boundaries because she needs to to protect the work we're doing, and to protect herself and me, and because she loves and respects me. If she didn't really love and respect me, and it was all about her, then maybe she wouldn't keep the boundaries. She keeps pretty firm boundaries, but she enforces them in such a loving way that it makes it okay. Anyway, these are some of my current thoughts on boundaries. They hurt (but not too badly with this T), but ultimately, I appreciate them. Hopefully your new T will be able to hold firmer boundaries.

I'm glad you're sharing your story. You worry about wearing out your welcome. I don't think people here tend to get tired of hearing this stuff. For us, we've found a place where people are going through the same painful issues that we are. Many of us probably thought that we were alone in this; that we were some type of freak. Now, we see that there are a lot of us. It's reassuring to hear the stories of others. Also, I find your story to be interesting. So, feel free to share as much as you need!

To ALL:

I think I've had a minor break through. I've been having those painful longing feelings that the strong attachment to our Ts give so many of us. You know the ones I'm talking about. It almost seems like I don't get much of a break from it.

I've been speaking with my T about my attachment a lot. I've been very brave with her, and shared all of my feelings. On Wednesday, we really delved into it. I told her my feelings and fears. One of the things that I said was that I was afraid that I was just another client, and I wanted to be special. She asked, "If I told you that you were special to me, would you be able to hear it?" I answered, "Maybe someday." She then told me that I am special to her. I said, "How?" She talked for about 10 minutes about how I'm special to her. She talked about my honesty, my drive for health, my deep capacity to love. She said that she genuinely likes me and enjoys spending time with me. She said that she enjoys our work together, and feels fortunate that she gets to be a part of it, and that she sees me growing up right before her very eyes and how exciting that is. It was exactly what I needed. (I know some therapists ascribe to the theory that we should find it all within ourselves, and they might not answer that question, and that might work for some people. I don't think that would work for me. If my therapist was not vulnerable with me, I wouldn't be able to be vulnerable with her. I'd close down. I needed reassurance from a real person, and she was able and willing to give it.) It was a very healing session.

I have this thing with her where I'm always asking her not to forget about me when I'm not there. She promises me that she thinks about me and prays for me every day. So on Friday, she called me to check in, which she does on Fridays, and she told me that she woke up that morning and thought about how brave I was to share so much with her on Wednesday. Then, we talked for a while. She said, "I won't forget about you." I said, "Oh, God, I'm so demanding aren't I, 'Don't forget about me!'" She said, "Let's not go there. We don't have to go there. It's what you need. I'm okay with it. I really am. I'm okay with remembering you throughout the week and I'm okay with you asking for that." What reassurance! I love my therapist!

So, it was a week that I opened up and was probably the most vulnerable and honest that I've ever been with her, and she was there to reassure me through the whole experience.

Yesterday, I was sick with a fever. I was longing for her and wanting to be taken care of. I was thinking about our work together this past week, and all of a sudden, I felt a peace and security. This lasted all evening. I went to bed feeling safe and secure and at peace and still attached and connected. It's the first time that I've really experienced that with her. It was a major breakthrough for me. Now, this morning, I feel the longing again, but I know that the peace and security is there somewhere.

Sorry this is going on and on. Good day all!

PM,
I forgot to tell you: I think that anyone, male or female, could get something out of the In Session book. It is written about women, but I think it could be applied to males as well.

catgirl

Catgirl that sounds like a wonderful session that you had and your T reacted perfectly. It sounds like she holds the boundaries while making you feel safe, secure and cared for. That is a gift that she gives to you. Of course, you are doing good work as well by being so open and honest with her. That security you feel will eventually last longer and longer as you internalize your T and her voice and feel the connection through distance. What you have is what many of us long for. I would love to ask my T if he thinks of me between sessions, if he ever wonders how I am and if he even cares how I'm doing. That is a very hard question to ask and I'm not ready for it yet. But I think I already have a good idea of the truth. He does think of me outside of sessions because he has given me copies of articles and other things to help me. And sometimes he will remark that I have not emailed him during the week and he was wondering how I was doing. So he notices when he does not hear from me and that must mean I pop into his head occassionally Such a nice thought... since he's in my head constantly. Of course it would be nice to actually hear him say it.

Sorry to hear that you have been sick. Hope you are feeling better and thanks for letting us know about your session and breakthrough.

TN

Summer and TN,

Thanks for your words of encouragement about my T. She is great, and knows how to and is willing to meet my needs, when they don't intersect with boundaries. I have been through a lot in my life since I've been seeing her. She's my biggest support. I'm lucky to have her.

BTW, Summer, you talked about your previous P revealing feelings to you and stuff. I should say that my T never talks about her feelings toward or about me unless I explicitly ask her to. For the most part, anyway. But, any feelings that she has revealed has not messed with my mind in any way. Her revelations have all been well thought out and worded in such a way that I didn't feel confused.

Your P may have been trying to help you in some way by revealing his feelings. He didn't plan on retiring, so maybe he didn't realize the weight that his feelings would have on you. I think it is confusing, though the way that he's handling the phone call thing. He says you can call him, then takes forever to return your call. That's confusing. Then, since he revealed that he has feelings for you, and then quits so abruptly, it leaves you questioning his sincerity or your perception. I'm glad to see you working through this confusion with your current T.

Thanks for your concern about my health. I'm feeling better today, though not 100% yet. I took my daughter to the beach and let her play while I relaxed. It was nice.

catgirl

catgirl:

i used to say the exact same thing to my ex-therapist. i originally expressed some anxiety over being "just another client" to her, but through her words and actions, i quickly came to realize that i wasn't. however, i would still say that to her sometimes, not because i needed reassurance, but because i wanted to rile her up and get her to break her professional barrier. but the first time i said that to her, when it was genuine, i said that i thought it sucked that she had dozens of clients, but i only had her. she told me that i was different, that all her clients were different, etc. one time when i was trying to provoke her, i said that she didn't really care, that it was just a job to her, that she only "cared" because i paid her to (which i knew wasn't true, but i wanted her to drop the professional act for just a minute), etc. she got a little annoyed and said, "okay, first of all, you don't pay me, you pay the clinic. you know this. second, it isn't a job requirement that i care for my clients. i don't *have* to care about them. it's my professional obligation to look out for their best interests, but i don't have to care about them." we just sat there and stared at each other before i said, "fair enough."

so, picking up where i left off:

we started in november and then took two weeks off in december for christmas (at the end of our last session for '07 she said, "see ya next year" and i said, "you're such a cornball"). during the first week of break i began to miss her, which i thought was normal. i had a male therapist a few years ago and missed our sessions when he went on vacation. i had no sort of transference for him whatsoever; i mean, someone listens to you uninterrupted for 50 mins. each week, you're bound to miss that if they go away for a little while. so anyway, i just kept rationalizing why i missed her at this point. she also got me into writing in a journal, so i was beginning to write a lot. mostly short entries about how i couldn't sleep, how restless i felt, how i couldn't stop thinking about things, etc. it was at this point that i began to recognize some of the terms she used when she would ask me about my moods. words like "grandiose," "racing thoughts," "restlessness," "impulsiveness," etc. were all words i remembered in my ex-girlfriend's psych. textbooks as symptoms of bipolar disorder. so i did some brief research online and sure enough i had all of the symptoms. of course, hindsight is 20/20 but for some reason i just didn't put two and two together. so it was kind of unnerving for me to realize this about myself; i *knew* it was true, but i didn't want to accept it.

on christmas day i met up w/ a girl i had been talking to online for a few months. my family does not celebrate christmas so for me it's just another day. she and her family had an early dinner so we both found ourselves at home w/ nothing to do that night. so i went over to her place and slept w/ her. then, a few days later, i met another girl from "teh internets" and spent the night w/ her. it was when i was w/ this second girl that i began to think about my therapist. i wished i was w/ *her* instead of these other girls. i very vividly remember sitting on this girl's couch thinking, god, i would give anything if you just turned into t right now. naturally, this thought really unnerved me, so i pushed it out of my head and had more to drink.

the holidays were over and during the first week of january we resumed therapy. during our first session i asked her, "so. do you think i have bipolar disorder?" she got a very cautious, pensive look on her face and said, "well pm, i've been thinking about this a lot, but before i answer that, i want you to tell me what my answer will do for you. what will it give you if i answer?" i told her it would help, that at least i'd know wtf is going on w/ me and that if i found out, maybe i could start to do something real about it. she nodded her head and said, "okay. well. yes." i looked down and she continued: "please know that this isn't some kind of life sentence. it doesn't define you or label you. you're not a diagnosis. you're still pm to me and you always will be."

even though her words about my diagnosis were exactly what i needed to hear, just having my suspicions confirmed set me back a bit. i was now really nervous that anything i did or said would be construed as "being bipolar." so now we were back where we started: i was unable to open up to her again. we were talking about this one day and she suggested that maybe i could start coming in twice a week, at least until i was able to open up and let her get close to me. i told her i'd think about it. i was thinking about her a lot at this point, but i still couldn't really admit my feelings to her. even though i was writing a lot, i couldn't bring myself to write it out. even though i knew about transference, i was a bit disappointed in myself that i "let" it happen. i should've known better. i analyzed everything she said or did to death and found myself obsessing over miniscule details. i thought about her two-times-a-week suggestion and called her one morning and left a message, saying i thought we could try it. she called me about an hour later and said great.

the following week i started going in on a tuesday (up to this point, our sessions were on thursdays). our first tuesday session started out fine enough. we were talking about whatever but during the whole time i kept thinking about how beautiful she is, how much i wanted to hug her, how badly i blah blah blah, all the typical crap. these thoughts were preoccupying me a lot and i decided right then and there that i couldn't go on w/ this anymore so, w/ about 10 mins. of our session left, i blurted out: "i, uh, don't think that i should . . . keep coming here." her eyes widened. "um. okay. why?" suddenly my hands started sweating and my knee started bouncing up and down even worse than usual and i was stammering, "i, uh, i . . . i . . . kind of . . . i," then i started laughing, "oh my god, i kind of think . . . about you." "romantically?" "holy shit, what kind of a question is that?" my knee bouncing was really bad now and i was shifting something fierce in my seat. "oh my god . . . i don't. are we . . . i can't believe we're having this conversation!" then i started laughing even more and running my hand through my hair. "okay pm, just . . . just take a breath." and then she breathed in really deeply and i did the same. i did this a few times and calmed down just a bit. "isn't our time up for the day?" i asked. she looked at the clock, "we have a few minutes," she smiled. "terrific," i said w/ slight sarcasm. "pm, do you think about me romantically?" cue round 2 of nervous laughter and fidgeting! i took a minute, collected myself, and then, "yes. yes. okay. yes! yes, i do. are we done now?" "pm, wait. i can't tell you what do to do, but i really think we should talk about this." her body language changed: usually she sat completely back in her chair w/ her legs crossed, but now she sat on the edge of her seat, her upper body slightly leaning toward me. Her elbows were on her knees, her notes on her lap. "i think you should come in on thursday so we can talk about this. will you come in?" we just sat there staring. suddenly my anxiety dissipated and i relaxed. "yeah, sure," i said. she looked sort of disappointed: "i don't know. that doesn't sound very convincing." i smiled. "okay, okay, i'll come in." she smiled back. pause. "okay. you ready?" she always asked me if i was "ready" at the end of our sessions. "yeah," i said, then we both stood up and she walked me out.

as soon as i left the clinic i hauled ass to the train station. it was really cold that night and i remember shivering as i was waiting for the train. this was january 22nd. i'm usually really bad w/ dates but i remember this date because it was the day heath ledger died. my anxiety came back after i left the clinic and i really wasn't sure i'd go back; how could i? i expected her to be weirded out and uncomfortable but her reaction was the opposite: she seemed really interested and intrigued by this. and i wasn't sure if that was better or worse than if she had been weirded out! worst case scenario: i expected her to be uncomfortable. most realistic scenario: i expected her to be neutral and to say something boilerplate like, "transference is normal, blah blah," but i did not expect her to express a keen sort of interest. i began to rationalize: she seemed "interested" because of my reaction, she was trying to show me it was normal and fine and that i shouldn't be uncomfortable w/ it. but there was still the nagging thought: well, if she really wanted it to seem normal, then why didn't she react as she normally does to the things i say? argh, i was beginning to make myself dizzy w/ all of this so i just began to distract myself. i decided i had one more day to decide what i'd do and i wasn't going to make myself sick worrying about it.

Hi Plasmamachine,
I just wanted to say welcome to the forums! I don't have much time I'm afraid there's a stomach virus running through my family, leaving me without a lot of free time right now.
Your reactions to your T sound pretty normal to me. I find that usually people who have these kinds of intense, obsessional reactions to their therapists often have attachment issues related to not being given what they needed when they were children. For the first time, you have a person totally concentrated on your needs, who listens and understands and cares about you. For a lot of people, this holds out the possibility of finally getting those needs met. And when we were really small, those needs were a matter of life and death (you die without an adult to take care of you) so that when these longings are triggered by our relationship with our T, they come with all that intensity, and from a part of ourselves that is often beyond our cognitive control.

The best way to deal with it is to keep talking to your T about how you feel about her. Examining those feelings can lead to a lot of insight into why you behave the way you do and what your core beliefs about yourself and others are.

You'll find a lot of people here who understand what you're going through. And Russ will be thrilled to know there's another guy around!

AG

Hi Catgirl,
What an awesome session to have with your therapist. I love that she could be so open with you and provide you with so much reassurance. Let it all soak in as deep as you can. I know how scary it can be to open up so much and talk about how you're feeling and I'm so glad that your therapist appreciated how brave you were and responded so well. And I know that the feeling doesn't stay but remember, you've experienced it now, it's part of you and nothing can ever take that away. And best of all, you'll experience it again. And each time it will stay a little longer and not take as long to come back.

AG

ag:

yeah, my parents are very anti-affection, anti-emotion, anti-everything, haha. i can count on one hand how many times my mother has ever hugged me and my father is exactly the same. i've never seen him cry or depressed or anything and she only cried when her parents passed away. even when i was hospitalized for a particularly bad manic episode, neither of them showed any sort of emotion. so showing emotions when i was growing up just got you a bunch of scorn and comments like "life sucks, get over it"; "stop whining"; "ugh, you're so sensitive"; "STFU or i'll give you something to cry about"; etc. also, my old man had a big drug problem and was usually either gone, drunk and/or high when he wasn't gone, in prison, or in rehab. so now it's difficult for me to be vulnerable and when someone wants me to be intimate w/ them, i don't know what to do w/ it. my feelings for my ex-therapist were very confusing and hard to handle. when we were starting, she'd always ask me, "pm, what can i do to show you i care? that you can trust me? what can i say?" and that was just too weird for me.

my parents' inability to express themselves made me very sensitive to the smallest, subtlest fluctuations in body language and facial expressions. i mean, that's all i had to rely on when i was growing up. and i guess this is why i was always provoking my ex-therapist--because i wanted her to *show* me she cared about me. i wanted her to drop her "blank screen" and just be real w/ me.

quote:

so showing emotions when i was growing up just got you a bunch of scorn and comments like "life sucks, get over it"; "stop whining"; "ugh, you're so sensitive"; "STFU or i'll give you something to cry about"; etc.

Now that sounds familiar. My father was was a Navy boot-pusher (boot camp instructor) in the 60s and 70s, back when boot camp was a tad more harsh, and far less PC than it is now. For whatever reason, he felt that it was necessary to treat my sister and I like green recruits. My brother got the brunt of it -- he was also victim to ferocious corporal punishment and, when he cried, he was called a crybaby. He couldn't win for losing. Selfishly, I was always very thankful to be a girl.

I'm sorry that you had to grow up that way with no parent to help (my mom comforted a little). I think that making friends and keeping them is the best way to start building trust with people. You are definitely on the right track by being in therapy too! Good luck to you on the journey!

Hi CatGirl ..

I just started reading the posts here. I've been off for a bit.
Anyway, I read that you were looking for some stats on transference. I'm not sure if this site will explain much to you, but it might be worth looking at.
http://publications.cpa-apc.or...php?mid=754&xwm=true
Let me know if it was any benefit to you.

Holly

Hi I'm frustrated w/ my therapist and I want to end my therapy (I'm in month 5 session #21). I get out of there and I am very angry. I am leaving with these feelings still kind of raw and its making it hard for me to deal with my life outside of therapy. I want to terminate all relationships when I feel this way and I know that its not healthy.

When I was talking about my the guy I am dating in my session and I tell him I am not happy that it is not progressing to a relationship after 8 months of "dating" he keeps asking why I'm so angry and my response is that its not going anywhere (I'm almost 41 and I'm impatient - I have no kids and I want to) -its also a metaphor for my life at the moment - its also going nowhere - which is why I went to therapy in the first place.

Every time I leave I want to call and cancel my appointments because I dont think they are helping me move forward.

So, I am wondering if I am experiencing some transference and I should stick this out until its gets better.

Any thoughts or ideas? ( I can already answer that he's ethically OK, and there arent any other problems or attractions or anything else to be looking for- Im well aware of those)

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Hi No Name

I just wanted to say "Welcome to the forum!" You are in a good place to find people who are willing to use their own situations to give you other perspectives. It's been great for me, and I'm glad I found this group of people.

I'm not one of the people who have answers for the transference stuff, because I still don't get it myself. What I wanted to respond to is your feeling that you aren't having any progress.

I've been in therapy with my P for about 8 months. My first 5 were spent sitting silent and sharing only very limited amounts of information. When my P got frustrated with my silence she would say that I had effectively shut down the therapy process, or she would tell me that maybe I should stop coming and try again another time when I felt more like sharing. I mean I was there semi-willingly so it's not like I was being forced to work on my issues, there was no reason I couldn't talk to her. The last 3 months I have talked more and given her as much detail as I can remember. But I find now that she has things to work with, she pressures me and pushes me to think about why I am feeling things (mostly anger) and thinking things. Which is what they are supposed to be doing. I get annoyed with the question "Why are you so angry?" because I don't know why I am. I've left her office many times thinking that she doesn't know what she's doing, I won't come back, and I've even sat there thinking I've had enough and want to leave 1/2 way through a session. But something keeps me there and something keeps me going to the appointments. I don't feel like I have gotten ANYWHERE with therapy, and if anything I feel worse much of the time. But my friends and family see me changing, so that tells me she and I must be doing something right. Have you had any positive comments from people that may give you the impression that maybe you just aren't seeing your progress? My thought is to give it some more time, and talk more about the anger you have. Tell your T that when you leave the office you are angry and explain why and that sometimes you don't want to come back. It will give him somewhere to go with you to work on your anger. Just be open to it

Have a super day!

Holly