I'll have you know that your posts and responses are just as insightful and useful as the next. You have much more to offer than you give youself credit for.

The part of the dude or "Scott's" post I was referring to was:

quote:

I just read an article on Childhood Trauma (for my course) which says:
all diagnosis of traums "require an identified traums, an experienced or witnessed, actualy or threatened injury to self or others, and itesm from three categores: (1) reexperienceing (2)numbing ofresponsiveness... (3) increased arousal ... (4) new fears and agressions. ... Numbing of responsiveness includes: social withdrawal, restriceted range of affect, constriction in play... dissociation..."

I just thought it fit with what you were describing earlier.

As far as climbing outside of your body, I wasn't recommending it, but I was just saying that sometimes I wish I could when my body is overwhelmed to all the stimulation. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed right now and I am wrapped up in a throw hoping it will pass.

I a waiting for my T to return my call. I had a bit of a rough session today.

I'm sorry you had a rough session. I can relate; I'm looking really forward to my individual session with my Tfella tomorrow; at least he's a co-T in the group, so I could see him this afternoon.

Rough sessions make me wanna go away, s'true. And indeed, this does sound like what Scott was saying.

And if you're worrying that the feeling won't pass, well...

Best thing for me ever, with something passing when I didn't think there was any way it could:

I go to university, and my T's office is in a U building. Turns out it's a dorm upstairs, and the part he's in used to be a dorm. Some Bad Stuff happened to me in a dorm room at one point, and his office is, as he told me one session, or used to be... a dorm room. I flipped out.

He said, "I think it'll go back to not being a dorm room, to being an office [for you] pretty soon. You don't have to keep going, "it's not a dorm room. It's not a dorm room." He was right. Being there, and thinking about how I was there, with him, was all it took. Nothin' scary there.

I've thought about that a lot, after the session, when I'm busy being scared about something. Feeling like I'm in his office, and thinking that it'll go back to normal just because it will, helps me out to a ridiculous degree. I imagine it's (didn't you ask about this?) transference, or Something Weird, but it helps.

That and a cup of hot cocoa.

Hi Wynne,
That was a very gentle and deserved nudge if that's what you think you were doing. I asked how you were doing for two reasons. I wanted to know. And when you first start posting there's all kinds of nervousness about how you sound and what you're asking for. You're doing fantastic.

I can't tell you how much you remind me of myself when I first started going to therapy. That fog you're experiencing and the inability to hear people sometimes, been there, done that. It is very common for people who have experienced long term trauma and especially in childhood to use dissassociation to cope. You learn how not to "be there" when bad stuff was happening so you so it didn't overwhelm you emotionally. It was a survival mechanism and a very important one.

But traumatic memories are stored differently than regular memories, and I believe, in a different part of the brain. They're not processed. This has the effect of freezing that moment so in one sense its never ended. So you're system has never perceived that the danger is over, not to mention that triggers can occur like what you went through with your tfella's office (GREAT name btw!) having been a dorm room. So you are still dissassociating to handle too much stimulus.

quote:

I've thought about that a lot, after the session, when I'm busy being scared about something. Feeling like I'm in his office, and thinking that it'll go back to normal just because it will, helps me out to a ridiculous degree. I imagine it's (didn't you ask about this?) transference, or Something Weird, but it helps.

And that's not ridiculous at all, that's exactly how you heal. You are experiencing safety with your T which is going to allow you the space to process those emotions/memories which then means you can be more present and have more energy for other things. And the fact that you're visualizing his office to help you when you feel scared is exactly the right thing to do. You have really excellent instincts.

And don't worry about posting or what you post. We were all new at one time and convinced that every time we posted we sounded like complete idiots and/or had nothing to add. If you can find a post you feel that way about let me know (unless of course, it's one of mine! )

And JM is right, there is alot more in your posts than your aware of. I'm really glad you found us.

AG

((((((((((JM))))))))))))))

I'm really sorry you had a bad session, those are so tough to get through and I know, can leave you in a really bad place. But I know that when your T calls back, and I know she will, you'll work thorugh it. I hope that happens soon. In the meantime, we're here for you.

AG

AG I love your humor and your way of cutting to the point. You always bring a smile to my face even when I'm stressing over stuff.

JM... I'm so sorry you had a tough session today. I had a session too and while I thought it was okay I'm not feeling so good right now. I'm processing a lot of what we talked about and while some of it brought me comfort, some of it left me feeling like...I don't know...like unfinished. Like I needed some answers I didn't get. Like something was missing but I don't know what that was. I think it's just me feeling uncomfortable with some feelings that came up today that I don't want to look at just yet. My T says that these feelings (which I have not told him specifically about) are probably surfacing because I have made room for them. Because I have already shared a lot with him and released a lot of other feelings I have made space for the new feelings and emotions to start churning. I think being wrapped up in the throw right now sounds good. So does the hot chocolate. I will see my T again tomorrow night but not for me... to bring a family member to group and while we probably won't talk alone ... I hope just seeing him will give me some sense of peace and security...enough to get to my next appointment next week.

Wynne... I have not yet said hello and welcome to our group. I have not been here very long and often don't have much time to post but it is a place that makes you feel like you are not alone in your struggles. I hope your next session is more helpful to you. I know that teeth grinding, tensed muscles kind of place. In fact today I was shaking and shivering with anxiety in my T's office. I used to do this all the time and it stopped for awhile. It started again today... maybe because of the subject matter.

Transference? Oh yeah. We circled around it today in my session...I was frustrated because I couldn't really say straight out what I wanted to say but we did spend a fair amount of time on boundaries. I hate them and struggle with them and they make me profoundly sad at times... which then touched on termination. Not mine... I'm not ready for it .. not for awhile. Even my T acknowledges this but in general. It's the "if you get better you have to leave" conundrum. I want to get better but I don't want to leave him. The thought of it makes me ill right now. So I guess that means I'm not ready. Some day...some day maybe this won't be such an issue.

Sorry for rambling. And thanks for listening.

True North

True North,
I'm sorry to hear that you're having a rough time too. Must be something in the air today. I think you're hitting that stage where things feel like they're getting worse because you're starting to look at all the stuff you've avoided looking at (for good reason!). No wonder you feel uncomfortable. I am really glad you were able to talk to your T about boundaries that's really important. And I'm glad he brought up termination. I had that same fear of getting better; I think I held off doing really significant work until my T told me I was welcome as long as I wanted to come. But termination hangs over every therapy relationship. Its definitely the elephant in the middle of the room and I'm glad your T isn't avoiding it. that speaks of his ability to go to uncomfortable places and be there for you.

I know it doesn't feel real good, but you are doing really good work. You should be proud of yourself for going towards these feelings. It takes an enormous amount of courage.

And you didn't ramble at all. You can start saying that when your posts get longer than mine.

AG

TN,
I just want to sasy I hear you. All that you said I can relate to. Today was a big discussion on good ol mother transference. I'm not sure if I can wrap my head around the events well enough to relate, so lets just say that it was really tough. I thought I was so brave for bringing it up so that i could understand it and then it felt like the floor opened beneathe me.

True North,

I can imagine what it's like to not feel ready for termination. I only get to see my Tfella 12 times, period, in a year (boo to managed care). The group meets weekly and is unlimited, pretty much, though it probably will go away over the summer 'cause we won't all be here, and he's a co-T for the group, but like you said it's not the same as when you see 'em alone. It's like he's a different person, and he is, kinda.

So I get to see Tfella I think 3 more times. S'rough, and I don't know how to handle it.

And I really resonated (resonated? Does that mean what I think it means? New word for me) with what you said here:

quote:

some of it left me feeling like...I don't know...like unfinished. Like I needed some answers I didn't get. Like something was missing but I don't know what that was. I think it's just me feeling uncomfortable with some feelings that came up today that I don't want to look at just yet.

After all the over-stimulation of group, I feel all adrift and I keep going over things in my head. And uncomfortable, like there was a lot going on under the surface that wasn't talked about. Maybe we were dancing around something in group, like you said you were with your T. Hm.

Thanks much for the welcome. You're right; I don't feel so alone.

I had a question again re: this issue, see above denial, land of.

I've thought about it a lot, particularly times when I'm pretty sure something that happened was "traumatic" by even the strictest definition - life-threatening, human-created situations, me-or-my-mom kinds of things.

I didn't freeze. There's so much written on experiencing trauma as a "freeze" response, and I get that that's one of the things that indicates that an event was experienced as traumatic. But I don't freeze! And I'm honestly just about the most useful person ever to have around in an oh-dear-lord-what's-going-to-happen crisis. I move, I duck, I cover, I lift, I run, I make _great_ split-second decisions.

It's embarrassing to say the stuff above; I'm only disclosing it because I want to make clear that I honestly don't physically (or ...mentally? rationally?) freeze when I'm in a situation where my life or the lives of those around me are endangered, either in simulated situations or in real life.

Afterwards I often get the shakes, of course. But I'm a dead ringer for someone who's been through trauma and reacted in a stereotypically traumatic way, like we've said - freezing, and all that.

So... what gives? I don't freeze, but my body and mind react later on as though I did. I can't figure it out. /sadpanda

Wynne,
I have an idea but I'm totally winging it here, so just try this on as a possibility but I could be really gonzo wrong.

I'm betting you are highly intelligent (you don't have to respond to that, I don't want to put you on the spot in open forum )especially because I know the type of exercises you're talking about and to handle them effectively takes a certain level of smarts and quickness of thought.

One of the ways that I have handled my trauma background is to overcompensate with my intellect. I really wish I could just think my way out of this instead of having to deal with all those messy emotions. And the fact that I have to be in touch with those emotions to heal, man, who set up that system? But I also know from experience that's the way it works.

So my guess is (did I mention I'm really not sure, so see if this rings true at all?) that you adapted in a highly effective way using your intelligence. I think the freezing was of your emotions. You shut them down, and proceeded on sheer intellect to deal immediately with the crisis to ensure that you survived. Kind of the opposite of disassociation, instead of disappearing to not feel anything, you threw yourself so hard into finding a solution that you didn't have to feel anything. The shakes afterwards are a sign of your system trying to deal with the feelings.

When my older daughter was just 3 1/2 years old, we were on vacation and driving back from Florida and stopped in a hotel for the night. While jumping on the bed, playing around, her hand came down between the bed and a night table and she split her chin open so badly that she needed stitches.She was bleeding all over me, we ran to an emergency medical practice. The doctor took one look at her and said she needed stitches and that my husband and I could wait in the office. We were like, are you nuts? We're not leaving her. So they strapped her into a papoose board and proceeded to put 8 - 10 stitches in her chin. At that time I used to make up a story every night at bedtime that involved Peter Pan,Barney, her and her sister and our golden retriever, so I proceeded to tell her a story while she got the stitches in. The doctor actually complimented on my story telling skills. My daughter, who did get scared and cry at times during the episode, was fine when it was over. The first thing she did when we got in the car was to look at her stitchs in the rear view mirror. I was present enough the whole time that I believe my daughter was able to experience it and handle it as it happened, but when we got back to the hotel, I looked at my husband and our babysitter who was with us (close family friend) and said, I'm going in the bathroom for a little while. Then I walked into the bathroom and had a COMPLETE meltdown. Hysterical crying for a half hour. The point of this long, rambling story you ask? I think that trauma can teach us to hold our emotions at bay in order to get through a threatening situation. The problem is when there is no chance even afterwards, let alone during, to deal with the emotions generated while its happening.

So for what its worth.

AG

quote:

I think the freezing was of your emotions. You shut them down, and proceeded on sheer [stubbornness] to deal immediately with the crisis to ensure that you survived. Kind of the opposite of disassociation, instead of disappearing to not feel anything, you threw yourself so hard into finding a solution that you didn't have to feel anything.

You clearly know me. Have we met? :P

Seriously, full points on this response; you're spot on. (are there judges? Is it like figure skating?) I described my response to Tfella as "stuffing my feelings into a sock" and going on about crisis business, when something goes wrong.

And, full confession, I talked to Tfella about this. He suggested the same thing, a dissociation of emotions rather than doing-thoughts. I just didn't believe him; I was like, sure, you're just saying this to keep up your pet "trauma" theory. *mumbles into her coffee* P'raps not. *thinks about stuffing her _denial_ into the sock*

AG, your reply to Wynne was perfectomundo! I tried to come up with an answer but could not see through my own mental fog I have been experiencing lately. I have experienced just what she described many times in my past but was helpless to express it the way that you did and I am impressed with your ability to do so. This is exactly what my T has helped me appreciate about my hyper-vigilance and uncanny ability to know how to employ survival skills in any threatening or potentially threatening situation I have faced. It is just like you said that we store the feelings until we can deal with them later and that is what explains the shakes or trembling afterwards. But wow can we manage some super-human feats through it all. There is also fight or flight responses of which this falls into.

JM