LL I think my T talked about sexual organs once after a dream I had (in the dream i was shouting 'you've bit his p.... off) Hearing her saying the names of sexual organs was terrible. I told her i didnt like hearing her saying words like that, i remember cringeing

she was using the analogy of women who can’t orgasm - that they’re right there but just can’t seem to break through to climax, as a suggestion to maybe describe for me a state of permanent emotional tension that I’m living in.


God this sounds like my relatioship with my T, i get so far but can break through

Hev

I hate saying the names of body parts out loud, I told my T it just sounds disgusting and the male body to me is disgusting

Or it makes me feel disgusting/dirty maybe

Hev

Thanks for jumping in LL!! I think it is so funny how so many of us want to start a thread having to do with sex, but we're all so hesitant to start it. So kudos for taking the leap!! And thank you Draggers for emailing Shrinklady to get the scoop on the rules, that was very brave of you! And MacLove for keeping the ball rolling...and Heather63 and STRM and BB and UV and JD and Smiley and SF (and everyone else silently supporting the idea of a thread about sex) I just think you all ROCK!

And now I'm on my way out the door, we are going camping this weekend so I will be off-line, no wi-fi, no Psych Cafe...probably will go into withdrawal!! But I saw this and wanted to pop in one last time before I shut the laptop down and say, why is it that "those words" are so uncomfortable?? My oldest daughter is nine, and she's been asking about sex, and so I'm having to explain things to her...and let me tell you, it is so funny how I'm struggling with so many parts of it, including what "words" to use...and her questions are so open and honest, so adorably honest and unaffected by shame...I really love it and don't want to pass on any feelings of shame...so having to struggle with that has been very helpful to me...and also quite comical! Sex (when it is appropriate and right and good, not abusive obviously) is actually quite funny and silly in some ways. My daughter's reaction to my explanations has often been to laugh hysterically at "how it works". And what is really fun is I get to laugh along with her. It is really an honor to try and explain "things" to her and see it through her eyes...not sure what I'm trying to say here, I'm just babbling now...but that is what this thread made me think of.

As far as discussing sex in therapy, I was extremely uncomfortable discussing it with my ex-T, it was just too tense to talk about it when I'd already told him I was attracted to him...it actually turned me on and made me even more uncomfortable. But it is much less of a problem discussing it with my individual T because she is a woman and I'm not attracted to her that way, and also she has a very open and frank nature that helps put me at ease. So far sex hasn't been discussed too much with the couples T but I was very open on the intake form, and the little bit of mentions about it, even during the individual appointment I had, I expected to feel uncomfortable but very surprisingly did not, even though he is an attractive man...I really loved the idea that it might feel safe to discuss something so personal with a man and get that safe fatherly feeling...not sure if that makes sense but I'm in a rush right now so I'm going to use that as my excuse! Okay?

Thank you all again for opening this subject!! Have a lovely weekend, and I'll be back Monday sometime!

Peace,
SG

good post LL, i don't have much to say, but i am glad you posted this topic.

my little bit? i couldn't talk about sex with male t1, would have told him to call my husband if he ever brought it up, which he didn't...one of the many elephants in the room he was too inexperienced and deficient to bring up.

t3, female, really, no problem talking about. we have briefly regarding some SA, and a bit about my current sexual relationship with my husband of 17 years...where everything is ok.

she thinks i am in denial about the effect of the SA in my past, so i expect it'll come up sooner than later. i will probably disassociate and it'll be awhile before resolution on that is completed. i am in denial and i like it there!! but could not talk details with t1, he asked me if i wanted to process through that deal, i assured him i did not, in fact, i could only tell him about it in an email. too icky.

keep rolling with this, it is good to read, and you got your warning up there, so you are SAFE!!

maclove, i didn't know you were so young. i have a 13 and 15 yo boys, and i appreciate what you said. our house rule is not one on one dating til 16, but, 16 will come.

i admire SO MUCH you keeping yourself w/o sex for seven months. GO GIRL!!

you will never regret that decision.

your closing tag is so mature...just didn't know you were so young. sounds like your t is really good for you. and is helping you know how random sex makes you feel,

i have somewhat been there/done that, and i know a much better relationship with a man and possible husband will come your way by being the way you are being. you WON'T regret this choice you are making for your life!! go GIRL!!

I will be back to comment on this, but I have to go out of town for a few days. I'll be back!

I'm listening...... not up to a response yet though.

I find it sooooooo hard to talk to my T about sexual difficulties. It's odd really because I know she knows...(and she knows nearly everything else there seems to be to know about me )...but it seems to be a bit of a sticking point. I have mentioned it, have the same difficulty with certain words..WHY???? Somehow the risk of me being triggered is much greater if I talk or write (being very careful here ) but don't get so triggered reading. I think I can understand and read etc with an adult head, as long as it's not about me, when it suddenly becomes dangerous - does that make sense to anybody?

So I feel kind of stuck with my situation in T, I think my T is waiting for it to come from me, but when I mention it, she never really picks up on it, or says that it's understandable and the specific difficulties will go in time once I've sorted out the rest of it all. And in a way that's true...I'm in a grotty viscious circle and get very easily triggered by my very-patient-understanding-really-an-angel-but-one-day-surely-he-is-going-to-get-fed-up-with-me-over-this husband

Thanks for the thread LL, now equal on bravery points with DF

starfish

oh and well done smiley just for listening.((((smiley)))) I know how hard and uncomfortable it can be to go out of your comfort zone

Sex is really confusing for me...it has never felt loving and has always felt humiliating...in fact, I only get turned on by humiliation/degradation of myself...so...I guess that is why I have been staying away from it for 12yrs!!! Sometimes I miss it, though. I start to fantasize about it but then the fantasies turn humiliating and I shut myself down I'm sexually attracted to 'non-humiliating' nice, wonderful people; but then I get so scared around them that I can never even form friendships with them. The only person, besides you guys, that knows this about me is my T(who I'm very attracted to, btw)...sigh...so I feel very stuck with this topic...mlc

SG - I have a 5 year old son, so the word "penis" is said in our household at least 3 times an hour. Right now he's in a rhyme-everything-with-penis phase. Nothing like kids to desensitive you to penis talk.

I try to use the correct words when discussing body parts with my kids, instead of baby talk. Sex (or body parts) was never discussed in my household growing up. It's a miracle I didn't end up pregnant in high school, since I knew NOTHING about birth control or anything else (Catholic school).

I don't have any problem discussing sex with my female T. We haven't talked about anything explicit though. Once ex-P (whom I was very attracted to) asked me about my sex life with my husband, and I turned so red I thought my cheeks would burst into flame. He asked if we ever had sex and I said, "No, hardly ever." and he said, "So... what? Once every few years?" And I said, "No, once every month or two." And his face was priceless. He said, "Oh. I guess 'hardly ever' is a relative term..." LOL.

I think it would be weird if I couldn't discuss sex at all with my T. It's so much a part of married life (having it or not), which is my big Problem right now.

oooh, LL, thanks for starting the thread...I'm realizing just from seeing it up here, and how respectful everyone is already being, that I have a HUGE need to talk about it...I will be back at some point as well...

BB

I always felt really conflicted about talking about sex in therapy. I wanted to talk about it very often, which was troubling for me - I experienced erotic transference for my very attractive former T and talking about sex with him was frankly a total turn-on (so I know what you're talking about, SG!). So I felt a lot of guilt talking about it with him, like I was trying to forge some sort of sexual connection with him. I worried that I wasn't talking about it in order to work through my issues, but instead just trying to get some inappropriate sexual gratification. And I was worried that that's what he would think I was doing, too. So I think that guilt kept me from talking about it as much as I wanted to. I never told him about that, but I like to think that I would have been able to eventually.

There was some shame associated with my arousal too. I felt really disgusting whenever I would get turned on. I mentioned that to him once, that it made me feel embarrassed and ashamed that he knew how I felt (not my feelings for him in general, but sexual arousal I was experiencing in the moment). I don't think he really knew how to respond to that - I don't even remember what he said. He had certainly told me before (and continued to tell me) that he didn't find me or my feelings for him disgusting, but I didn't feel reassured in that particular conversation.

Thanks for starting this, LL! Clearly, it's an issue for many of us.

.

MacLove - that sounds like a lovely first date! I hope you have a wonderful time.

Hi MacLove,

I didn't realize you were younger either. I'm about to celebrate my 21st birthday. I hope you have a great time on your date!

Hey guys thanks all for being brave enough to post. I have to confess that since starting this thread (and reading Dragger’s sex thread) I’ve hit a brick wall in being able to talk about any details for me - grrrr. It’s like I know there’s all sorts of things going on in me to do with sex, and having a body generally but I’ve never really thought about it in any depth and now that I’m wanting to (well, feel that I need to) I just can’t get the words out, in fact I’m finding myself sliding away from even thinking seriously about it too.

I wonder if anyone else has problems with having a body (apart from sex itself, though they’re obviously connected)? It’s like I’m ashamed of being a physical person, that I try and make myself physically invisible even to myself - so that I don’t have to experience my physical existence. Gah not explaining it very well and can’t quite bring myself to describe it any better. Sorry.

Maclove you’re a pretty clued up person, never mind that you’re only 19. I’ve met 59 year olds who aren’t as mature and together as you sound. I hope your date goes really well!

SG and Echo, isn’t it sad that we learn all these sorts of awful things as we got older, but as children it’s all perfectly natural and nothing to be ashamed of - somewhere along the way sex and body parts come to be something shameful or to be hidden away, not talked about openly. Thank heaven for mothers like you two! When I think back on my childhood, the only way I learned about sex and bodies was from my friends at school - generally it was a taboo subject at home.

Sorry guys I’d like to reply to everyone but this is such a fraught subject for me that I can’t keep it up at the moment. (That just means I’m shutting down on thinking about it, but that also means I can’t find words either.) Just want to thank everyone who posted

LL

.

I have sort of discussed it a little bit with my male P. I get really uncomfortable when he says the words orgasm or say the actual body parts name. I will turn red or get really nervous or have a hard time talking. A lot of those times it has turned into him talking and me just agreeing to anything he says. I have written down telling him that I want to have sex with him, or I think about having sex with him or that I want to give him a blow job but I think saying anything out loud is a little to hard right now and I just start freaking out. I did tell him in a letter that when I think about having sex with him that I want it to be where he is forcing me to do the stuff and luckily when he read that last session he did not read it out loud and just told me that reading that makes him really sad.

Last session my female T brought up sex when we were talking about the abuse and mentioned sex with my husband and that made me so embarrassed and nervous. I did admit to her that I think guys show they care by forcing you to do the sexual acts because that shows they want it that bad or want you that bad that they would do anything to get it which means they really care. She mentioned sex with my husband and if he forced me which the answer is no but it was so hard to answer just saying the word no because she had mentioned sex and the other stuff that had to do with it.

And orgasms is the worst word, it just seems so wrong and dirty and if someone starts talking about it around me I will start to dissociate right away. Im not sure why and luckily none of my P's or T's have gone that far to ask specific questions. I dont even say those words when talking to my husband. Even with him sex is called "it" or "you know what Im talking about" cause its just too embarrassing for me to deal with.

And next session with my P I am suppose to be more honest and open up and talk about the stuff I wrote last time which is so scary since it had to do with sex....but I LOVE thinking about sex during session and what I wish I could do with my P it just gets really hard when he asks me what exactly I am thinking at that moment and I have to lie because I cant get the words out of whats really going through my head.

quote:

Originally posted by MacLove:

I used to not like going more than two weeks without sex. I would have one night stands and random/drunk hookups. I would also drive more than an hour to a different city for sex on a regular basis.

That sounds exactly like my background! My friend used to joke that "no sex was worth driving over an hour for" but it was worth it to me!

When I first started therapy, I wasn't comfortable talking about sex, because I was attracted to T. But I'm not aroused by him in the least anymore, so I talk about it all the time. (though the thought of him having sex really creeps me out, and I've told him this, I just can't think of him that way)

Sex is on my mind all the time, I hate it. My partner is physically incapable of having sex so I have to engage in risky behavior to find a sex partner. I've talked about this with T and although he doesn't discourage this behavior, he has made it clear that if I ever wanted to talk about how I can stop doing these things, he can help me.

I guess the point of this post is, yes I talk very frankly and in detail about sex to my T. And he doesn't judge me, no matter what crazy things I may be into (things inappropriate for any thread, even this one, lol.)

WLOH

I told my T when I first started with him that I used to sleep around a lot (even cheating on two ex-husbands). I told him how I'd gone to counseling for 8 months about 10 years before I met him and THAT therapist helped me see that there wasn't anything (or anyone) missing in my life, that I was a whole complete person by myself, and it was enough of a revelation for me to stop, and I've only slept with my current husband ever since.

I told my current T I was assaulted when I was 17 but didn't go into too many details. I also had one assignment from him where I listed things I was ashamed of since it's hard to talk out loud about them, and one of the things was I developed early (about 10 yrs old) and wasn't allowed to wear a bra till I was 12 and I suffered a lot of teasing. And my T goes, "Developed? You mean like BREASTS?" And I about died right there.

The only thing I really talk about sex-wise about my current husband is "it's been X number of months since he slept with me" or I'll tell my T if I don't want to sleep in the same room for a while and tell him (not really detailed) when we finally do have sex. The last time we did it I told him I was happy about doing it but that it stung.

Great, MacLove, now I'm wondering if I should have said anything since you laughed at me. J/K!! But due to the shame of it all, it's really hard to connect or stay connected when I was discussing it with him.

There's an episode of Taxi where Alex goes to a gay bar to talk to a friend of Elaine's, and the friend told Alex (to the effect of) "Elaine knows that I'm bisexual!" and Alex hissed "Shhh!" and then quickly added "Oh, wait, it's okay to say that here."

My T has probably "heard it all" and even worse words than breasts, right? So I should have felt safe to say whatever words I wanted but at the time I just felt mortified.

STRM

I am sorry it feels so hard, I understand that weirdness and awkwardness you describe. I have it whenever I am discussiong problems that affect me 'now' that are slightly difficult or hard to talk about....it's as if I should be managing them myself ok and am not, so I feel really foolish. How was your T? The same as usual or is there a change in how she is with you when you have such a conversation?

quote:

Maybe it is because I feel ashamed about wanting to be able to have a sexual relationship?

I think shame is so hard to conquer. I feel bad inside because of what happened to me, feel then that I have not the same rights as others to enjoy such a relationship....which is wrong I know. But I feel less deserving and therefore ashmaed when I talk to my T about it.

I am sorry that maybe you feel this way too,

starfish

STRM

quote:

I can talk to my girlfriends about sex and have no issues, but talking to T is weird. It feels wrong.

I wonder if that's because your T 'knows' about all that happened to you? So maybe talking to your girlfriends might be easier as they haven't such a good understanding of your experiences and feelings?...So you don't feel so transparent with them, as with your T. With my friends I can chose to join in conversations, give as much or as little away as feels ok - with my T, well she knows nearly all of it anyway so I can't hide my feelings.

Oh and the 'intimacy' word....think they must learn that in T school! My T says it too...never really quite sure what exactly she's referring to - I think it's an umbrella term that encompasses everything from holding hands to.......whatever!! And I never want to jump in and talk about sex, if she's just referring to a hug on the sofa

starfish

haha- lamplighter, scaredtoriskmyself and starfish: your're quite like me at this. I'll try to be brave too


I SO relate to this right now- my two last sessions SUDDENTLY my T brings up the Sex-topic/ words- and i cant figure out wether or not I hate when he uses all this terms (even the word "dating" made me smile and get embaressed, as he spoke of it)

I`ve been forcet to talk about this topics lately, and it really enoyes me(?) that my T seem to LOVE talking about this, and finds it so interesting.. Gosh- my pain- he's interest!

When it comes to the "tecnical speaking" my T seem to have "missed the class" where he should learned the right terms..("Intimacy") My T uses the opposite terms..
My (old) T seem to try use a "young" language at this.. F.ex, he calls it "one night stands" "a number" (i dont know if you can say that in english)

also- i feel like its getting a BIG (erotic) TENTION in the room as soon as the S-word gets up- It sooooooo weird and... something..

Yes- i can relate to the wanting of hide behind the pillow. I actually did it. Lol. Twice

bleeehhhhhhhhhhh.

Starfish,

That could be. Perhaps the fact that she does know me and so much about me makes it that much harder to talk about.

I agree with the umbrella term use of the word intimacy. I mean, what are we really talking about?

/i still dont know how to be real about any of this with my T

I was able to let go of some deep sexual pain with my male T. It was really a great feeling once I was able to say it out loud. Now we can talk about orgasm and other sexual words without much shame. Bringing things into the Light feels so good and freeing.