Cipher,
It's fine you're posting here, but if you don't mind I'll put a trigger warning in when I'm done posting this. You are most definitely underreacting in my opinion. A three year old child is pretty frail compared to an adult male. There is nothing on earth that would justify throwing a child EXCEPT if you needed to do so to remove them from the path of something dangerous enough that throwing them presented less risk. And they may be physically ok (which sounds more like a matter of luck) but have to be damaged emotionally on some level. My father raged and could be physically abusive and it's terrifying as a child to have an adult responsible for you be that out of control.

Is this the first time this has happened? Or is it a pattern? If this is a pattern you need to get the children away from him even if it means going to a shelter. You're the only protection they have.

Forgive me of you were only looking for emotional support but it's hard for me to not to see this from the child's point of view.

I'm very sorry for what you're going through.

AG

PS if you don't like the wording on the trigger warning, please change it to whatever you prefer. I honestly just wanted to save you the effort.

Cipher,

First I want to offer you and your little one hugs of support. Any type of abuse is so damaging, and it's wrong no matter what the reason for it is. I want to give you something to think about here--a child is so emotionally fragile. It doesn't matter if there are no marks on the outside, the inner child will suffer from this abuse for the rest of his life. You need to get him out of this situation. No child should EVER be hurt like that. You, as the mother, need to protect your little boy. You need to take control of the situation, no matter how frightening leaving may be. There are options. For the well being of you and your son, get out of this situation as quickly as you can. You can change your son's future at this moment. You can get the help you need, and he can recover now before further damage is done to his psyche. PLEASE.

(I grew so emotionally cold and distant from my own mother because she never stood up and defended herself from my dad, or protected me. When you have a child, you have to protect them. It's your job.)

Unbroken

((((CIPHER))))

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I just wanted to send you big hugs. You need to talk to T about this.

xoxo

Liese

quote:

its hard to justify to myself that we should go to a shelter when its not every day, when months can go by where it doesnt happen. most of the time its not like this.

Yes, but are you living in fear of when it will happen next? What you said about calling the cops and worrying about your husband taking revenge speaks of a level of fear about how he would react. Cipher, if you can not trust your husband to not hurt your children, then its not a good place for them to be. We are NOT meant to live in fear of our parents.

Nor should you be living in fear of your husband.

Please trust me that if there is tension and fear, your children are picking up on it. The attunement between a child and their caregiver goes both ways. No one should tolerate physical violence, it's just not ok. But that's what your kids are learning. That's its ok if it only happens once in a while. Is that something you want them to think?

Cipher, I feel like I really need to add that I know I am pretty triggered right now, so I'm not sure that I'm seeing this clearly.

Cipher,
I want to be clear that my being triggered is MOST definitely MY responsibility. Not your fault, and I am the one choosing to read and respond. I am glad that you are seeking out support for this. I can take care of myself, you don't need to carry that on top of what you're already dealing with.

Cipher,

Even if you don't go to a shelter, IMHO, I think H needs to know what he did was wrong and that he can't continue to do this. Will he go for counseling?

Hi Cipher,
I am so sorry this sat all night without a response from anyone; I hope it didn't add to your sense of being condemned. I had gone to bed, this was posted 1 AM my local time.

I do NOT hate you nor do I blame you for being like my mother. You are in a terrible position made even more difficult by your own history. It has to be especially scary not being employed. Although my husband does make the lion's share of the family income, and leaving would mean a substantial decrease in life style, I do make enough to ensure a roof over my head and food on the table so in some ways I have no way of knowing what it is you're actually facing, so I would not be quick to judge you.

It is also obvious that you care deeply for your children and want what is good for them or you would not have started this thread in the first place. I am glad that you are talking to your T about this as I am sure she understands your situation much better than we ever could.

I can understand why what you experienced with your father could both influence how you see the current situation and make it harder to see possible solutions. From where I'm sitting, and as I've said, I am being deeply affected by my own past, the clear priority seems to me, safety. Your location says that you are in the USA. If you google your location plus "social services" or "womens shelters" you should be able to find options available in your area. Or get into contact with the Department of Social Services (DSS);they are usually on your county's goverment website. I am not insisting you need to leave, but knowing your options might help you make a decision about what to do. There are shelters that will provide food and housing for you and your kids until you can get on your feet.

But bottom line, I do want you to know that it is clear that you are struggling to do your best for your children whom you love, and you cannot do more than that. And you are the one that needs to decide what to do, not someone who only knows your situation from who knows how far away and over the web. Feeling trapped and like there is no right thing to do is a terrible feeling and not one you deserve. I hope you are able to find clarity. I am sorry if what I have been saying has been adding to your burden. My real desire is that you and your children are safe.



AG

Hi Cipher,

Your T is probably the best person to talk to.

Cipher,




I am so sorry you are in an awful position and I really hope that you will be able to sort this all out. I'm glad that T is supportive of you. I think that's a good start. I do want you to know that I do not hate you. You are brave and are reaching out for help. That is an amazing step, and I think you deserve support for just that monumental initial step you've taken in this situation. I feel sorry that you are in a position like this where you feel like you are stuck. I understand that more than you'll ever know.

I admit I got a little triggered, and that's TOTALLY my issue--just like AG said. I have been dealing with stuff from my childhood revolving around this issue, but this isn't about me right now (and I am sorry if anything I said made you feel bad--it wasn't my intention at all). I just felt fearful for you and your little boy. This situation is about you, and how you needed support and help. AND I want to provide you with support--and I apologize if anything that I said made you feel bad. I did not intend for you to ever think that. My largest concern is for your safety and the safety of your little ones.

In all honesty, I REALLY appreciate what you've posted here. It gives me a different perspective on my own situation. It somehow makes me realize that sometimes as much as someone loves their child and is an amazing mother, the situation they are in and the decisions they make are influenced by so many other factors (factors that kids wont understand until they are adults and can learn to look at it from another perspective). My own mother was in the same exact position you are--feeling stuck. I have an incredible amount of sympathy over that type of situation.

I pray that you find the help necessary for you to work through these current issues with H. Maybe he can get some counseling, as well? If he is angry just sometimes maybe getting some support for that anger will allow him to overcome how it takes it out on the children and you?

I wanted to send a few links that might offer some help:

http://helpguide.org/mental/do...s_causes_effects.htm

http://www.thehotline.org/get-...ed/abuse-in-america/


Best of luck here, and I hope you feel supported on the forums. I apologize again if anything I said made you feel bad. I definitely did not mean for that to happen.

Love and Hugs,

Unbroken

Hi Cipher,
I am sorry, it must feel horrible to feel that there was no help for you as a child and there is no help for you now.

I don't think you're making a big deal out of something small. I think the problem you are running into is the people that abuse the system, that report abuse just to get revenge on someone they're mad at, so the authorities have to find proof before doing something so serious as to take someone's child away.

I know you may not be able to bring charges against your h, but does that mean that you're leaving and taking the children with you is totally out of the question? Most domestic violence shelters will protect your identity and whereabouts to keep you safe from an abusive spouse. I don't mean to push and I can hear that you are feeling overwhelmed and helpless, but I worry that those feelings are preventing you from seeking out all your options.

I'm sorry for the place you find yourself in Cipher.

AG

Hi Cipher,
Will you accept my apology? I'm sorry, I had not thought of the whole aspect of visitation unless you had proof to bar your husband from seeing the children. I can certainly understand why the leaving them alone with him with no protection is unthinkable. An obvious sign that I have no where near the understanding or experience with these issues you do. In a perfect world you would not have to choose, but unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world.

Along with you, I hope it gets better. And I hope that you can continue to get the support you need here.

AG

thank you Cipher.

Cipher---I'm so sorry you are going thru this agony. It's incredibly difficult to think of leaving when the abuse is covert, not easily seen, or all the time. I too live in constant fear of what H may do. It's exhausting trying to think ahead all the time to make sure there's nothing to set him off. Leaving and disrupting the childrens lives, as you say music, dance, sports, financial security. And who to share it with? (that's what makes this place so wonderful) It's like the dirty little secret in the closet. H seems normal and nice on the outside. Of course we question our perception and what IS real.

After the storm, comes a calm. At least for awhile. In the calm is time to reflect and sort out what the "f" to do. :-)

Take care,
tacy

(((((CIPHER)))))

That's such a huge step both you and H took. It sounds very encouraging even if all he did was complain about you. Lots of H's wouldn't even step their foot in the door. It took so much courage to show him that list of abusive behaviors. Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. Baby steps.

xoxox

Love,

Liese

Cipher- I am so impressed by your unselfishness in sharing the space with your H, at great cost to yourself. I know the sacrifice you made here- and it is huge. I think that great things will come of it, in your marriage- even though it does not feel that way right now. I bet your H will come around- he may need a bit of gentle nudging- I think you are returning good for evil, here, and it hurts like heck, but you can have a huge impact on your H this way, since your situation is so impossible, you have nothing to lose.

I understand how it feels, to have that space "invaded" by a spouse.I think it is good that your H will have a different T. And in time it will clear out again, I'm pretty sure. idk, I never tired, after my H came to therapy, the relationship with my T did not feel the same, and I was not able to work through it, but ended up ending, for that, and other reasons. It just felt flat, for some reason. My H did all the talking in the few sessions we had together as well, and it was all about how my T wasn't working hard enough to change me into whatever he wanted. However- the work my T did with my H, did really in the end, help our marriage. My H was finally able to come to see at least somewhat- the ways in which he contributes to my/our problems. It was very difficult, though.

I think since your T has made it clear that your H need counseling from a different T- your space will clear out for you and become yours, again.

Many hugs,

BB

(((((((Cipher))))

I'm so sorry it went down that way. So sorry.

Wow and ouch. Cipher this all sucks and I’m so very sorry that what should have been a major step forward (getting your H to agree to therapy) has turned into a black hole swallowing you up (((( Cipher ))))

I really get how you felt like your sacred space was invaded by having H come to the last session, that would have been more than enough to sort through this session. But to experience your T effectively siding with your husband would have seriously threatened your faith and trust in her so that it’s doubtful you could have resolved that in one session anyway. But then to go today and feel like she’s now openly taking your H’s part and trying to get you to take responsibility (read ‘blame’) for what’s been going on... wow I can really understand why you had to walk out.

And as for that text??!!??

Cipher I know there’s nothing anyone can say to make it any more bearable for you at the moment. I do think though that you can’t just leave it as it is like this, you need to be able to talk to T again. I’ll take the risk of saying that a part of how you perceived T to be taking sides and turning against you *might* be down to your own heightened perceptions due to how crap and shamed you’ve been feeling because of the last session. That her intentions may not entirely be how you experienced them and so it’s worth at least checking that out with her.

For instance it may well be possible that her apparent support of things your H said in previous session were intended more so that she didn’t appear openly hostile towards him (the point of his being there being to help you in getting him to agree to seek help for himself – had she not come across as understanding or sympathetic in some way, that may just have served to alienate him completely.) I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m negating your pain and perceptions here, I’m just very aware from my own experience that I can interpret negative things from a T in a much worse light than they are intended.

None of which exonerates her from having totally dropped the ball in terms of being YOUR T and understanding how you are likely to have felt about your H’s participation in the previous session

And it’s lousy timing too .

I’m really sorry.

Hugs to you (((((((( Cipher )))))))

LL

(((((( Cipher )))))))

I see you’ve deleted all your posts, I’m so sorry you couldn’t keep them up

Just want to send you lots of good wishes and hugs, and let you know I’m thinking of you.

LL

((((Cipher))))

Just want to second what LL said, I was sorry to see your posts gone when I came to respond. I am sorry that your trust in your T is under such assault.

AG

thank you Hopeful, LL, AG, BB, Liese for your support. i did not delete because of anything you have written here. sorry if it came across that way. Hopeful, I saw that you deleted after I did. you did not write anything that offended me.

its just that the more i try to work it out with my T thru text exchange, the worse my feelings of shame and rejection seem to get. if my T sees me as so bad, surely everyone who reads here could come to the same conclusion. i just need to minimize the shame because it makes the pain so much greater.

i actually tried to backpeddle and told T i wanted to keep my appointment tomorrow because i wanted her to hear me out how angry I was. but she sent 2 texts in response which seemed obvious she was discouraging me from coming in -- saying maybe I was right that the relationship was poisoned, and that maybe i should cancel because from what i wrote it didnt sound like it would be worth my time. so im pretty convinced my T wants to be rid of me and is pushing to make sure i stay away.

i can hardly breathe it feels so suffocating to see evidence that once again i am unwanted by my attachment figure.

im sorry for coming back here. i dont even feel like i deserve any responses. i just wanted to apologize if you thought i didnt appreciate your support. i will go away tho cuz i am too low to really be lifted up right now.

You do deserve support- I'm so sad that your T's responses are making you feel this way. I hope for your sake that you and your T can work this out- in person. I hope you will go in and talk to her in person about this, and about how her responses are terrifying you. Please know that you are very much wanted by us. You don't need to be left in this state of shame with nowhere to turn. You don't deserve that.

Please keep coming here- you need all the support you can get right now.

Many gentle hugs,

BB

(((Cipher)))

You absolutely deserve support and BB is right, you don't need to be alone with this. I know you are feeling so ashamed that you need to hide right now but please know that is NOT what we are thinking. This has not changed my opinion of you at all (and it wasn't low!). You need to know that you are loved and accepted here and there is no need to hide from us. It's ok if you can't bring yourself to post, just please know that you haven't done anything wrong here, nor did I take it at all personally that you deleted your posts. So no upset, no anger, no disapproval, just concern for you.

Please try to be gentle and compassionate with yourself.

AG

Cipher,
I was afraid I had hurt you and I didn't mean to. With what started this thread with your three year old is so difficult...my youngest will graduate this year and I have had enough instances of that type of thing in my household over more than 26 years of marriage to the same person and a childhood of seeing some of that...I'm the sensitive one that it seemed to have affected the most so I thought you to be so brave and to be doing something by trying to get support and trying to get a hold of it before your children get older. It takes a lot to even do what you've done and I admire you for it. I hope you will stay. I'm sorry that she seems to be discouraging you from coming in...I felt that way a bit today also with my T so I am very uncomfortable with even going to my next appt. although I probably will knowing me and probably make a mess of it. I hope you feel better soon.

Take care,
Hopeful

Cipher it is exactly when you are this low and in this much pain that you need to be here with those who understand the depth of the pain you are going through right now. I'm very sorry you are having such a disruption with T right now. You are dealing with so much and you needed her to be your safe place.

Can I gently suggest that trying to work out a disruption through texting may not be the way to do so? I think something this important and this sensitive needs to be handled in person or at least on the telephone where you can hear/see your T and her tone and her non-verbals. Texting is so void of emotion and nuance.

I'm sorry you felt you had to delete your posts but I certainly understand it. Just wanted you to know that we are here to support you in any way we can and that we are thinking of you. I hope you can work this out with your T.

Hugs
TN

PM if you need to talk.