((( Seablue )))

Oh I’m so sorry you are feeling like this. So many things I want to say to you but I’m stuck right now I have to go. I’ll come back later and post again I just wanted you to know I’ve heard you and want you to feel safe and supported here.

I really hope you get yourself into a place where you can think about rescheduling with T though - I understand why you’ve cancelled, I just hope you can talk it through here so that it is safe for you to go back and see her soon.

Hugs to you Seablue, will reply more later.

Lamplighter

Oh seablue I'm sorry that you are feeling so badly after your T giving you the gift of the shell. I know that shame is the hardest emotion to deal with and I struggle with it myself. I also struggle with trying to hold onto the good things my T says about me and I feel as if I cannot "take them in" and I can only hear the negatives things I tell myself.

As hard as it is the answer is not in running from your T. It is in going back to talk to her about how the gift made you feel, what it brought back from your past and why you feel that you should leave therapy. Yes, it's confusing as heck. What you did was express a need to your T and she MET IT with the gift. You are not used to this happening, as you say when you wrote how it made you think of your mother and how you wanted to take comfort from her. Evidently, your mother did not freely offer her comfort and affection to you and you feel guilt at even thinking about wanting it from someone. Somehow you got the message in childhood that having wants and needs was a really bad thing, so it's very understandable that you feel discomfort in expressing a need to your T and then her meeting it.

Aside from this, those of us with trauma/abuse backgrounds always feel like our emotions and feelings are so intense that we will overwhelm and drown those who we express them to. That no one could possibly survive our needs, our tears, or our emotions. So we learn to stuff them down and ignore them. But this will not happen with your T. You will not hurt her or overwhelm her when you express your grief, joy, happiness, tears, anger etc. She can hear them and accept it and you will learn, in time, that this is okay to do. Sometimes I think we are afraid to find joy in anything from our Ts because the fear remains that it will somehow be taken away from us. I have expressed this to my T on numerous occassions. I am afraid when something nice happens because I'm certain I will lose it and that will be so much worse than never having it to begin with.

I think you need to email your T back and tell her that you have had some time to think it over and you would like to come back and try to talk about how the gift made you feel. I think you will find that it will be a very powerful and productive session that will leave both of you feeling very connected.

Lastly, having those feelings are not crossing a boundary at all. You are entitled to ALL your feelings, even those about your T. They are part of who you are and if your T is a good one, she will want you to acknowledge them and grow from them.

BTW, I think it was a really beautiful gift.

Hope this helps you some. At least you know you are not alone in these feelings

((((Seablue)))))

TN

I was going to say much of what TN said, but it was so well said that I won't rehash it. I have often found it as difficult to accept positive good things from my T as I have to talk about the bad stuff. My T calls it a nourishment barrier.

I completely agree with everything said and think if you can contact your T and talk about it that it will be very helpful.

I agree it was a beautiful gift.

Hi seablue. I can't answer the whys in your post (but it looks like TN did!), but I can tell you that I have felt this same way many times with my former P. Every time he said something nice to me or made a thoughtful gesture, I would immediately feel so embarrassed and ashamed. I felt like I had to hide how much he meant to me, or else he would know how "pathetic" I am.

Once he gave me a book; we were going to work through it together in sessions and there were worksheets in it to fill out as homework, etc. It was completely normal and appropriate for him to provide the book (especially considering how much he charges), but the next week I went in and gave it back to him. I told him I found it in the library and I could just use their copy and didn't need to keep his book and ruin it by writing in it. He tried to get me to take it back, said he wanted me to be able to write all my notes in it and keep it for myself to review, but I refused. He looked at me like I was some kind of nut. The truth is that it meant so much to me that he had given me the book in the first place, that I just couldn't stand it. I couldn't bear feeling that grateful, feeling taken care of, all because of some stupid book!

Maybe this is what you are feeling about the shell. You said you would cherish it, and you meant it, but then you realized that by saying that you showed how important she is to you. You made yourself vulnerable.

I hope you will call her and reschedule your appointment. hugs.

Thank you LL, TN, STRM, and echo for helping me begin to make sense of the shame I am feeling. I was able to connect it to my mom, but was stuck there.

quote:

What you did was express a need to your T and she MET IT with the gift. You are not used to this happening, as you say when you wrote how it made you think of your mother and how you wanted to take comfort from her. Evidently, your mother did not freely offer her comfort and affection to you and you feel guilty at even thinking about wanting it from someone. Somehow you got the message in childhood that having wants and needs was a really bad thing, so it's very understandable that you feel discomfort in expressing a need to your T and then her meeting it.

This makes so much sense to me. When I was with my mom as a child, I was always next to her, but never interacting with her. I do not recall ever having a face-to-face conversation with her even to this day. She was really incapable of even seeing my needs much less making any attempt to meet them. The one memory I have of my mom that was comforting is I was on her lap and laid my head on her chest. I found comfort in listening to her talk to my dad one day. Now when I think of it, I think of the monkey in the attachment experiments trying to gain comfort from the wire monkey mother. I realized that she was not offering me affection, but that I was taking it from her, and it felt so shameful. I was keenly aware she was just barely tolerating me being there. I turned off needing anything very early and feeling became very very shameful. Even now, when I speak to my parents, I must be extremely controlled and matter-of-fact.

quote:

Those of us with trauma/abuse backgrounds always feel like our emotions and feelings are so intense that we will overwhelm and drown those who we express them to. That no one could possible survive our needs, our tears, our emotions.

This definitely resonates. My T actually has told me many times that my feelings will not make her go away, and she can handle them. But, the barrier is there to block her words, and I have trouble really believing her. I will admit though that I believe her slightly more now than I did a year ago, so that is progress, right?

I agree with all of you that leaving therapy is not going to make this (or anything else for that matter) better, but I just can't imagine how I can face her. I am so mortified and it really feels like I have damaged the relationship beyond repair.

Running is also a pattern for me. I sense that I have done something embarrassing, or someone has 'figured me out/seen through me,' and I run. Then it's really hard to go back - I usually don't.

I wish I could talk about how I feel with her, but the thought is horrifying. One very real fear is that she will make me give the shell back because it was more meaningful to me than she meant it to be, and therefore crosses a boundary or is a sign I am too attached to her. The shame.

It was a beautiful gift, and I love it - I just wish I hadn't told my T that.

quote:

Originally posted by seablue:



I wish I could talk about how I feel with her, but the thought is horrifying.

When I have felt overwhelmed by the idea of talking to my T about something I have agreed to go in and just talk to her about what it would be like to talk about it. In other words, don't talk about the actual issue, but talk about what you are feeling at the idea of talking about it. That has helped me in the past.

I really don't imagine that your T would make you give the shell back. I know it feels like that could happen, but you didn't cross a boundary at all. There is nothing wrong with being attached to your T. It feels scary because in the past your needs for attachment weren't met, but it really is healthy for you to feel attachment toward her.

I'm sorry this so hard. I can relate, I really can.

Hi Seablue,
TN already said most of what I was going to say, but I just wanted to add one more piece to the dynamic. When we don't have a secure attachment, we often learn that moving toward someone is a dangerous act. But that's what you did. You allowed yourself to move closer to your T by acknowledging that her gift and the care that motivated it were important and welcome by you. Doing that, moving closer, has evoked a sense of danger in your amygdala. You're doing something that in the past got you hurt, so your amygdala is trying to trigger a flight response to get you to move away to stay "safe." There is no sense of time in that part of your brain, so although the adult part of you is able to recognize that your T is NOT your parents and it's safe to move closer, you're going to have to experience moving closer and not having anything bad happen a LOT more times before that sense of danger is overwritten with the fact that this is NO longer a dangerous situation. And the reason the shame is so unspeakably strong is that we are social creatures and shame is the most powerfully motivating emotion we can feel. So your mind uses shame as another way to try to warn you off from these behaviors.

And that's why its SO important that you do go back and talk to your T about what happened and how you felt about it (as TN so wisely said). I know it's terrifying but you need to see her acceptance and lack of judging if you ever hope to get past the shame. You have done nothing wrong. It's healthy both to move toward relationship and to feel grateful for someone's care and express that.

The feelings are just really intense because they've been waiting since you were very little. Think of young child and how intensely they feel things. But your T will get that.

Oh and one more thing that I know I struggled with. Knowing that I appreciated my T and craved his care felt like it gave him all the power and I knew how it had turned out the last time someone had that kind of power over me. To need someone is to make ourselves vulnerable to them. Another thing that can cause us to recoil.

AG

Sorry Seablue I’m so late in replying and in fact on reading the replies you got and your response I think what I was going to say probably wasn’t going to be very useful so will restrict it to one point.

quote:

it’s so easy to get caught up in the ‘badness’ of my needs and wants and to beat myself up for having seen her as such a paragon after the first session, as if I'd taken something that wasn't mine, wasn't meant for me...

This is a quote from one of my own previous posts and the highlighted bit is what your comments immediately made me think of. Which is what you’re describing with the wire monkey mother (that’s SO sad!)

It’s the shame that’s the worm at the core here, and I thought maybe I could support you in that feeling - but I’m so full of it myself that I actually can’t come up with anything supportive or helpful to say about it, only that I really get what you’re talking about.

And I’ll just repeat too what the others have said, please please think about rescheduling - it’s such a core issue that talking it over with T could actually be a bit of a breakthrough for you.

Lamplighter

Hi SB

I'm a few days late. I'm so sorry to read about your experience, or at least I should say I'm sorry to hear about your reaction to your reaction to your T's gift. It's how you feel about your expression of how you felt when she gave you the shell that's causing you so much shame and heartache here and I can understand that so very well. I think if my T ever gave me something like that (which she wouldn't I'm sure), I'd treasure it like you have. I don't know that I'd say anything because of the shock, but likely I'd do the same thing you did because I'd be so shocked and yet honored to have something from her, regardless of whether it was something simple like a shell, or something more profound. It wouldn't matter what it was if it came from HER. I'm sorry you feel so much shame for what you said. I could feel your shame myself as I read your words. It's awful how we carry this stuff around with us, isn't it? Why can't we just accept something from someone and allow ourselves to be cared for and let someone we 'love' meet a need or show us a kindness without feeling like we shouldn't be so glad for it and accept it so readily and with such glee. But you should accept it, and not feel shame. I agree that you need to go back and talk to her about this. Trust me (and others that have said this) that running will just keep you miserable. It worries me to read your words that you run and don't go back when things like this happen. Seablue, you HAVE to go back if you want to grow and overcome these obstacles that keep you stuck in life. Please. You can do it, and you deserve the great experience it can be for you in your therapy. At least really think hard about it. I would hate to see you give up over something like this.

I hope you're feeling better by now.

HUGS, ((((((((SB))))))))
MTF

Hello everyone. Thanks to all of you for your wonderful support. Your responses normalized my feelings enough for me to go back and talk to my T about my experience with the shell. I told her about being flooded with feelings when she gave me the shell and how it felt really disturbing and uncomfortable - now I realize it was intensified partly because I didn't understand the feelings initially and was trying to reject having them. I told her about the shame I felt when I told her I would cherish it because I felt I was taking something she wasn't offering. We talked about how it comes down to a general feeling that I don't deserve good things. I also told her about being triggered with my dad's words when she told me she just wanted the negative voices to stop and leave me alone. I heard - oh stop being emotional about it, it's just a shell. I don't think I described that in my original post, but basically any time I got anywhere close to feeling something, my dad would tell me to essentially stop feeling. He would give me this look and yell at me to "stop it" and I was instantly mortified. And I mean things like saying a puppy was cute in a too emotional way. She clarified that she meant she knew that the shell wouldn't get rid of the negative voices completely but she wanted to give me something that might help ease some of it or offer some comfort. And intellectually I knew this was probably the case, but was still automatically triggered. I actually wrote my T a letter and read most of it to her, until I started crying (more shame) and couldn't read anymore. Then I slid way down in my chair and hid my face from her for a good 20 minutes. Really? Yes, really. She was very reassuring though, through it all. She even said that she felt a connection in the moment she gave me the shell and referred to it as a beautiful moment between us. She reassured me that it's ok and good to feel touched in interactions like the one we shared and that I had not crossed a boundary by feeling something. We talked about how feeling connection triggers a 'danger' response for me. She thought it might be a good idea to target that with EMDR. It is so difficult to decide what I need because of the internal struggle I am constantly caught in - part of me craves connection and another part vehemently rejects it. I am not sure how it fits exactly, but there is a part of me that also gets very angry at my T when she says or does things that evoke feelings of connection and attachment to her. How does she ever know how to respond - I do not envy her. I know this is the mess that comes with having a disorganized attachment style, but it's really frustrating - what do you do with the conflicting feelings, and how do you ever get to the point where you can feel and recognize your needs, and then articulate them so your T knows? I am going on the faith that in time it will happen because that is really all I can do right now. I also raised the issue that I feel like I am constantly telling her things she does that trigger me in some way, and it doesn't feel good because I never tell her the good stuff - the way I really feel about her. I have spoken of feeling connected and attached but have never talked about the specific feelings. she gave me a chance to tell her my feelings if I wanted to, but I couldn't do it. She responded that it was ok and now might not be the right time. I have been trying to sort out why I feel such a push lately to tell her about my feelings for her - especially when I know that it might trigger a really big freak-out on my part. I need to decipher what I am hoping to gain or satisfy by doing it. I am actually afraid that it might be that I want to her to reciprocate my feelings, and obviously it will not turn out well if that is the case. Overall, I feel much much better and more secure and connected in my therapy. This is much longer than I intended. I am not usually this detailed, but decided to go with it today. Thanks again EVERYONE! I appreciate you all so much.

Seablue!

I'm doing cartwheels for you right now!! Yay and way to go!!! I'm so glad you did that for yourself and I can tell that you are feeling so much better now. Such a relief, I am sure. I'm glad your T met you with such a great response and knew that she would. It just took a lot of courage on your part. I know because I've been there. I can totally understand and relate to reading the letter, too! I'm sorry you had to stop, and hid your face, but obviously you got through it and things sound better. I'm glad you wrote out what you did here, and it makes me have some courage to try again with my own T. I'm having issues with her again, but reading your post about your success gives me some hope that I can summon some courage again and go back in to my T's office and give it another try. Oh, I'm so happy for you, and I know that things will just get better. Keep at it, girl!! A big hug to you ((((((((SB)))))))).

MTF

SB,

I am so happy for you!! What courage it took for you to go back and face your T, but you did it and I'm so happy that it turned out well.

Seablue wrote:

quote:

Overall, I feel much much better and more secure and connected in my therapy.

Yay for you! I'm so glad to hear this and I think I sort of predicted this. (I'm not saying I told ya so ) It's just that when we take risks and open up and talk about the hard stuff with our Ts and they meet us with empathy, concern and understanding it takes our relationship to a whole other level of connection. I think this is what happened with you. I'm thrilled that you found the courage inside of yourself to address this issue with her so that the gift of the shell can now be stored away for you as a beautiful caring gesture on the part of your T that you can accept without guilt or feelings of it being undeserved. Because you do deserve it, seablue!

I'm sure your future sessions will be helped by this one and the new level of trust will be solidified. Thanks for letting us know what happened.

TN

quote:

I'm so glad to hear this and I think I sort of predicted this. (I'm not saying I told ya so )

TN - You were right, and thank you. The words in your post were so helpful to me.

MTF - Don't know if it calls for cartwheels, but thanks for your never-ending encouragement! How are you feeling? I have been wondering how you are holding up.

STRM, Thanks - I really appreciate your support.

Seablue,

Are you kidding? I think it calls for cartwheels! That takes so much courage to put yourself out there when the shame monster hits and you just want to run away. Believe me, I know!

I'm doing a bit better, thanks so much for asking. My T will probably get an ear full when I see her on Wednesday. I have a lot to get off my chest, and I've been a lot more emotional lately than usual so I know I need to get it out because my body is telling me so. I don't even want to answer the phone tomorrow when she calls me to remind me of my session with her, so that's another indicator that stuff needs to be aired. Ugh. Wish me luck, because I'm going to need it. I hope my session can be as successful as yours! That would be fantastic and make my week, at the very least!!

Thanks again for asking about me. I've been waiting to respond to my post until I've seen my T so I have something to actually report. Otherwise I feel like there's not much to say, KWIM? Have a great day!

MTF