very good article, i can relate to so much of what you said. yes, i too, was shaped to believe that normal feelings as a child of wanting to be loved and held and understood emotionally, were WEAKNESS. i was teased and came to believe that this was shameful, and teased that i needed to go to the local psyche ward at the hospital. (which would have been a really great move, as, although I was normal in these needs i now see, THEY were emotionally unavailable and belittling to me). it really stinks growing up this way, so i feel for you! yes, that five year old instinct feels so sensitive and needy and such a burden to get soothed my others and by myself.

it is a nice concept, i think named by freud as id and ego (with super ego, for me, being the toxic parent role). the pull and fight between these two selfs is so important to identify, it helps clarify just who is talking, and it is not as many voices as i once suspected. that clarity can help, but the healing of that five year old??? i don't know where that comes from, but i do think awareness of it's identity helped me alot, and i hope it helps you, too. it is TOUGH when they go out of town. flying solo, but i think some major growth occured for me at this time...but then one of my (many) problems is massive self-reliance, and not letting others help me....and that kindof was 're-upped' at this time too. seems this therapist kind of ran out of tools about this time. i hate when they get 'quiet' on you...i used to think they were wise and knew something they were letting you 'discover', but now have found, with him anyway, that they think they are appearing wise, but really, at least for him, he didn't know what to say. you look smarter keeping your mouth shut rather than speaking stuff we already know. (i rant!!)

toxic parenting is sure lethal to the spirit, my friend. prayers for healing to you. nice post.

Thanks for the reply, Jill,

Yeah, his experiences are eerily similar to my own. On another post, his description of this mother is an almost exact description of my father.

quote:

My mother is disapproving. Her whole attitude to me is disapproving. (If I take a step towards assertion and independence she knocks me down - now I have internalised this process), She makes me feel what I've done is a stupid waste of time. She asserts her view as if she was God and Dad lets her. She needs to feel everything is under her control. Everything must suit her...Her attitudes are really narrow. She cannot think. She is very assertive and uses it to quell other people, e.g. my self-assertion. She has no insight into her own motivation whatsoever.

...She needs to stamp me down and repress me. She will do that whether I am a baby, boy, or man. I get active discouragement from her and rationalisation from him.

The only difference is that my dad wasn't assertive...he was just a bully.

quote:

...They are unaware of what being emotionally healthy is, and completely unaware that there is anything lacking in them.

Russ

quote:

quote:
...They are unaware of what being emotionally healthy is, and completely unaware that there is anything lacking in them.

WOW, talk about a deer in the headlights!! that above statement is SO TRUE. they still don't get it, that a lifetime of putdowns and sarcasm and DIScouragement takes a toll, and that now that i am wise to it, 49 years later, there IS NO MORE RELATIONSHIP!! and they still don't get it!! ooooh if voodoo dolls only worked!! hang in there, pal!

If you peruse his other posts, and his other blogs, you'll find many, many other amazingly articulated gems like that one. The guy is a fantastic writer.

quote:

Later in the day I felt a new strong feeling arising inside me. It was an attitude of mind which said if I want to do something just do it, if I want to say something just say it, and if I want something just try and get it. It felt like healthy aggression, the aggression that is needed just to be a normally assertive independent person.

This feeling is unprecedented and unlike anything I learned in childhood. It feels like a potentially independent person arising inside me and if it grows and develops it could transform my life.

and

quote:

That feeling of autonomy and strength is still around in me today, though in a very tenuous manner. I keep catching it for a moment then losing it for long periods. It is a feeling that I could be a person, I could have a voice, and I could say things I decided to say. It is an absolute novelty.

For others it is probably something taken for granted, something they have always had and can't imagine not having, but I have never felt like this before. I have never conceived of having so much freedom.

I get to feel like this sometimes. It is very difficult to hold it, but I can imagine how it must be to just have it and be like this. Just be, without thinking what I should be like in this situation, with these people. Just BE.
Another thing, this healthy agression, kind of fiercefulness. I think I felt it for a while too. I felt so strong and consolidated, like the child in me was not exposed, be was inside the adult who was on the outside and would not let anybody from outside to fuck with me. I like this feeling of being put together, but I am not able yet to keep it, it is coming and going. I don't always feel comfortable around other people, around men especially.

Yeah, he is a good writer, he can name the changes that he feels. I am a bit envious of this ability

quote:

Originally posted by Amazon:
Yeah, he is a good writer, he can name the changes that he feels. I am a bit envious of this ability

Me too! Envious not only his self awareness, but his discipline in keeping a diary of his experience. But, even he often comments that while he's very good at intellectualizing his experience, he struggles to actually feel.

I think he wrote the best description of the experience of psychological problems I've read is in his Inside Psychotherapy Blog blog:

quote:

If you found yourself stranded on a desert island you would have a problem, but if the mainland was in sight and you were a strong swimmer you could probably solve the problem yourself. If the mainland seemed far away and you were a weak swimmer you might attempt to solve the problem yourself, then decide you weren't going to make it without help from someone else. But what if there were no mainland in sight, you could not swim, and your island started turning into quicksand? You would have a problem about as serious as problems can get. External help would be urgently required.

People whose emotional problems resemble the first situation are unlikely to need or seek psychotherapy. They can overcome their difficulties sufficiently to make a good life for themselves.

Many people who seek therapy have problems resembling the second situation. They have the basic ability to live but want help to strengthen that ability. They want to progress beyond the problems that are holding them back and improve the quality of their lives.

People whose problems resemble the third situation have acute problems and are more likely to be told by a doctor that they would benefit from therapy than to decide it for themselves. Not only are they in deep trouble but they lack the strength to get out of that trouble. They are concerned not so much about the quality of their lives, as about whether they are going to be able to continue to live at all.

This is a timely topic for me since I have just recently began to ponder with my T what it means to be my true self. I think I must be so deep into a false self that I have no clue where to start. I did identify with this quote from the blog entry:

quote:

What I think of as me is largely a pseudo-identity created of necessity in childhood. It was a way of adapting to my environment, and at its heart is the conviction, or pretence that instinctive human needs and feelings are not important.

This may be obvious to some, but to me I had a lightbulb moment a few days ago when I asked my T, "Is it being my true self to ask for what I want? Should I not feel humiliated for asking if those wants are denied?" (Because usually I feel my wants are selfish or undeserved.) My T's response was, "You get to ask for what you want and not be ashamed to do so." I noted that she didn't promise anything about getting what I asked for, but it was the shame for having needs and wants which she was addressing.

I liked the analogy of psychological problems and being a stranded, weak swimmer facing quicksand SOL. Except I might disagree with the part of needing someone else to decide for you that you need help. I for one sought out psychotherapy on my own because hello, I KNEW I was drowning and some part of me still clung to the desire to fight for life!

i have felt like i have been swimming HARD all my life, and still am. and i am very very tired, and the mainland seems to be an illusion, as whenever it gets closer, suddenly it just gets farther away. and i realize the current is flowing the other way, and i have two kids on my back i am trying to safely get to shore. and once i get there i will collapse. i am not suicidal, my faith is not that strong. i just swim, and swim hard and truly can't believe that everyone out there in the real world (not y'all), is swimming as hard as i am just to stay afloat.

depressed?? oh, yes, in spades.

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Originally posted by Mad Hatter:
Except I might disagree with the part of needing someone else to decide for you that you need help. I for one sought out psychotherapy on my own because hello, I KNEW I was drowning and some part of me still clung to the desire to fight for life!

Me too, MH. Waking up at 3am feeling like you're either about to die, or about to go insane permanently, was enough for me to see help on my own, too.

quote:

Originally posted by jill:
depressed?? oh, yes, in spades.

Just curious, Jill. What role does anger - felt, unfelt, kind of felt - play in your day-to-day life? I'm finding reservoirs of almost blinding anger beneath all my other stuff. I haven't pin-pointed the precise whys just yet, but the anger is fierce.