Hi MTF...I'm not sure why we do this... yes I do it too. Just came on after doing my own searching....I do think it's a way to get closer to them, to put them in some place in the world aside from their office. Maybe it somehow makes us feel safer to know who they are outside of the office walls. Not really sure. In my case right now I think I'm looking for some clue as to why my T changed personality seemingly overnight. What is going on with him? He seems to be this huge mystery all of a sudden and I'm craving some kind of answer that makes sense to me.

In your case, you are also trying to get closer to your T and you have not seen her for awhile so that is understandable. I would never confess this stuff so I give you credit for having the courage to do so. While my T was away I went back to his office to look at the spot where everything came crashing down on me when the cops came that day. I sit there and look at the street and his front door and I try to make sense of how my life changed that day. Because I was so activated and dissociated through much of that experience I have only fuzzy memory of how it all happened. I can't ask my T because he won't talk to me now and I am left with trying to put pieces together... and not having much luck with it.

I'm sorry this is troubling you so much. Go easy on yourself and know that we all do this. You are not alone.

TN

quote:

Originally posted by More Than Fine:
I found her son has a Flickr account with a set of about 30 photos of the interior and exterior of her house taken during a remodel two years ago.

Wow! I’ve done some pretty serious online stalking, but I’ve never hit the jackpot like that! I would probably be thrilled if I could find something like that, but I understand what you mean about violating her privacy. What a predicament…

quote:

I also visited her daughter's Facebook last week and while scrolling down through I saw that she had 'liked' a site or software or something that will tell her who has visited her profile.

Oh gosh, I’m always paranoid when I’m stalking my T or his wife that they are going to somehow find out. I have imagined his wife telling him, “there is this person named ***** who visited my website 560 times today. Do you know who she is?” But it still doesn’t stop me from stalking them

I do understand you feeling guilty about all of this, but I guess to me it doesn’t sound that weird. I mean, I’ve tried stalking my T too. Unfortunately, I’ve been able to find out very little. As to the ‘why do I do this to myself’ question, I ask myself the same exact thing. I really have no idea why I feel like I have to. I guess it just goes along with wanting to know him so badly, and wanting to know him in the real world in anyway possible. Sorry, I don't have any answers. I'm in the same boat!

Mac

Hi MTF,

Popped in to see how all are doing - I feel for you being in this situation again, it must really hurt. I wanted to say a couple of things. One - the "see who's checking your profile" groups are scams - they either don't do anything at all, or they spread viruses. There is no technical way to check who has seen your profile. If you do a google on those groups, you'll see lots of reports of this.

Two - how come you're going off the medication? Do you think this is the cause of the return of the obsessive stuff? I think it's really important to recognise that there is very likely a biochemical component to whatever's going on here - that's why the medication has been helping you. So this is not your fault, dear MTF. It's something you're struggling with, something you want help with and can ask for help with. I think you should report this relapse to your T as soon as you can in the same way you would report a headache if your doctor had been treating you for that and it came back. You are really suffering through this - much more than anyone else you are watching/thinking about. It's the brave, safe thing to do to ask for help with it - you've shown before that you can do that, and your T has shown before that she can handle it. It's okay that this hasn't been fixed over night - just keep working towards that with your T.


Thinking of you - I hope it gets easier soon.

J

Hi MTF,
I'm sorry for what you're going through. I've been there when I've went out hunting and then found something that really made me feel like I've crossed a line. We're driven by this deep inchoate pre-verbal biologically driven need to move closer to our attachment figure, on some level it feels likes a matter of life and death. And so we go searching, but when we actually hit pay dirt, it's like the adult part of ourselves realizes that we're not supposed to know this stuff and all the guilt and remorse sets in. It's a sickening feeling. But please try to have compassion on yourself. You really aren't trying to intrude on your Ts life or hurt her in any way, you're desperately trying to make yourself feel safe. And I think she's capable of understanding that. I know when I told my T about googling him one of the things he told me was that he really understood someone driving by his home or calling his home phone. He understood that need that drives us to find out more so he didn't feel threatened by it. I think being honest with your T will see you through this. Hang in there.

AG

Hi all,

Thanks for the messages. Unfortunately I still feel like crap and I'm scared out of my mind to tell my T all of this. I get more scared every time I think about it. I'm finding myself one minute trying to tell myself I don't need to tell her, and then the next I'm convincing myself that the only way out of this is to tell her all of it, as hard and ugly and painful as it is going to be. And I thought I was scared LAST TIME I put this stuff out there to her. At least that was in a letter I left with her over a weekend and she had time to think about it. This time it's going to have to be in person, as I promised her no more letters. I might just print out my original post here and hand it to her so she can read it while I sit there and bawl my eyes out on the couch. I'm sure she's going to be shocked. She didn't really even get the whole idea of why I would want to drive by her house last time (which I never have, because I told her I feel like it is her private sanctuary and a sort of sacred space that I never intended to violate--what a liar I've made of myself!), so why would she get the desire to want to see the inside of her home, or to know what kind of car she drives? She is certainly going to feel like I've violated her privacy to the max by seeing the interior of her house. I would die if some person I didn't really know who was coming to me for mental/emotional health help had seen photos of me in my home, seen my bedroom, bathroom, dining area, kitchen, front room, etc., even if it was just the walls and not much more. I would feel sick about it! Mostly because I would NEVER invite them there myself, so knowing that they had access to that would make me really angry. I am sure she'll be angry at her son. He didn't even live there at the time he took the photos and I'm sure he didn't ask her or her husband if they were okay with him putting the photos up on the web. But will she be more upset with him or with me for it? It's going to be in the heat of the moment that she has to decide that, and I am just sure it will be me over her son.

I can't decide if I should call her and leave a voice mail about all of this and tell her I understand if she wants to transfer me and leave it up to her, or if I want to face her on Wednesday next week and sit there in all my shame and discomfort. I know I'll freeze up and be unable to really talk and say what I need to say. I'm just getting sicker by the minute. I don't even want to face her I'm so ashamed of myself. Last time was hard enough, and this time it's SO MUCH WORSE...

Hey, there, MTF...I'm so sorry you are in such torment about all of this googling. I can totally understand where you are coming from, I go through it too with something different, but the feelings are the same. So I definitely do not want to minimize any of the feelings you are enduring here...but can I just say a couple of things? Take a deep breath. Now, look objectively at what you have done...looked at some pictures that were online and available for public viewing. You have told your T in the past that you have a propensity to find out more about her personal life...she is aware of this. It is up to her, if it makes her as uncomfortable as you think it does, to *take care of herself* in this situation. MTF, I suspect that in the past, your T has not been bothered by this much, and that, for some reason, you almost want her to be bothered by it. If you are like me, it is almost like you've done this "terrible" thing, you feel so much guilt for it, and you almost *need* someone to validate that guilt, to say, *OMG, MTF, I CAN"T believe you would do such a horrible, unspeakable thing, how could you"... and so on. (If I am off base, just say, but this is how the scenario plays out for me.) When that kind of response is not forthcoming, it is almost, a dissapointment, mixed with some relief. Now, if you can just try to see, you are not so bad for doing this. You have no intention of hurting your T. You are longing for a deeper connection. And I suspect, there might be some kind of unconscious reasons for why we do this kind of thing that causes us so much anxiety and desire to be *punished* or to be told, you are right, you are bad- for what we see, in such a maginified light, as *horrible.* It's the old, "I am bad, and must make myself BE bad" or something like that, in order to weirdly compensate or have some kind of insurance, or whatever...it's just psychological stuff I don't really understand, but it's there. The reality is that, what you have done, taken in the context it was done in, is really not that big a deal. I have googled my T. If I lived in his town, you could be sure, i drive by his house, opr try to be where he is, see what he is up to...and I too, would feel unreasonable level of guilt over what is not that big a deal. I think the thing that bothers, is we feel like we are "taking" something that does not belong to us. And I think you need to do this, because you need badly, your T to tell you that she understands that it is not a big deal, (not a big deal because she know YOU) even if it is not the greatest thing in some ways, and that she understands why you would want to do such a thing, and perhaps, even to *go ahead* she trusts you. I think you need her to make this about you, and what your needs are, and to have you both talk about those needs, what is motivating, and so on. It could even be (and I could be wrong) that if you heard such a thing from her, it would help you to relax enough to not feel so much pressure to google her. But I don't know. The crux, is that ALL of this must be talked about open and honestly. Take a deep breath before your session...recognize, interiorly, that your T is not your mom...and that she is here to help you, and that is what you pay her for...and then if you can, speak...says the queeen of clamming up and being unable to speak! If not, I suggest you print this whole thread out and take it with you, and BEG her to read it during the session, and BEG her to please try to see it from your perspective. See how she does.

In the meantime, know, you are no danger, you are not creepy, there is nothing here that is criminal or wicked, you ARE a good person who is seeking comfort and love, and that is healthy in itself -and that basically, you are ok...though like the rest of us you have some problems to work through about how you feel about yourself, and that will take some time and effort. Breathe deep, MTF- even if your T doesn't respond in the way you really DO NEED her to...the fact of the matter is that, you *really* are ok, and that googling your T and trying to see what kind of car she drives, or looking at her through her window in her office, and such, does NOT make you a bad or creepy person AT ALL.

Love,

BB

Dear MTF

Count me in the "Amen" to BB`s post!
MTF, - i donno if it helps to know, but i am a "full-time stalker", and i have done a lot "worse" things than you have.. some of the things my T knows about, and i used to be (are sometimes)) a total mess with guilty/shameful feelings for all these, before telling him (some) of those things i have found out about him when i have "stalked". I so (painfully) relate to your story, its therefor a bit triggering for me to read and reply on this, but for whatever its worh to you- dont drag yourself down with guilty and shameful feelings. You (we) are so normal!
Your actions are so understandable and just a very well-intended wish(?) to feel more close to your T..
- I use to walk by my T`s house/office (or wherever i imagine he might be) just to feel somehow safe and...something.. Like i cant have enough of his presens..and like i am so overwhelmed by curiousity(?). It drives me nuts sometimes! (no- very often! OK- Every day! )
I`ve done SO meny things in order to find out all kinds of stuff about my T and slowly i have learned to axept this "drive/need" in me..So now (after 1,5 year in therapy) the obsessive need to "go detective" on him all the time is slowly fading away.. I think talking about this with your T (as scary and shameful as it feels, trust me- i know!) wount harm your relation in any way that you fear. Your honestly should just be credited! I have "confessed" to my T some of the things i`ve done, that i also truly imagined was totally unaxeptable and horrible, but there was no punishment waiting for me... Just a huge reliefe (and surprise for me)- that he didnt even seemed shocked over what i had admited doing. (ex; googled him and so on)
I havent deared yet to talk with my T about ALL of it, but for me its a constant goal for me that i one day will feel safe enough to tell..and also not fear the total judgment and fear of being abondoned of him.

Again- I think BB post was full of wisdom at this, and answer your questions (and mine as well!) about all these.. Yet i just wanted to know your`re not alone having this problem/feelings and i hope it helps knowing that it most likely will change over the time! One day you wont find it so important anymore to figure out "whom your T really is-" questions..I really think its all about a attachment issue- and a need for safety- and yes-again- add everything BB said

Take Care MTF. And let us know what you decide- telling your T or not- whenever you`re ready, if you want to.
ps: Dont punish/beat up yourself in the meantime though! Because if you do- I would have to beat up myself for this too- propably a hundered times more than you, i`m sure!

Hi MTF

I do this all the time too....in fact, you would not believe what I have found out about my T. Her first husband was killed in a helicopter crash 20 odd years ago (she told me that)...I managed to find out where, when, etc and even found the Air Accident Investigation Report and then....to cap it all....I searched high and low to find an Airfix kit of the EXACT model of helicopter that he was killed in, and built it, designing and creating an IDENTICAL colour scheme and everything!!! Now THAT is creepy!! Worse still, I took it to my T to show her!!!! (but didn't say why I had built it!!!). THAT IS SCARY. That was two years ago....

I cannot believe I did that - my T said nothing....just admired the model. SHE MUST HAVE KNOWN!!! Now I think about it, I feel so guilty. What was I trying to achieve??? I kid myself that my 'googling' my therapist is about wanting to make a connection with her. I think it IS largely that, but then I think that I must have been a really scary creep to have done all that stuff with the helicopter....that is weird.

We are going through quite a shift in our relationship and I am owning up about all sorts of stuff at the moment....ET....and, (for me) worst of all how I used to have massive crushes on teachers at school and how I used to stalk them etc....SO SHE MUST KNOW!!!!

But how can I own up to that???? How can I tell her that?? I know I have to at some point....

It's a long story, but when I had crushes on teachers at school, I would be really badly behaved and nasty and spiteful to them. So what I did with my T and the helicopter was transference. Not only that but how ON EARTH I managed to find out so much information when she disclosed so little is quite beyond me. Except to say that that in itself was transference too, as it showed the lengths I would go to and the strengths I would exhibit in order to 'survive' the situation I was in when I was child (abuse, etc).

I feel an absolute creep for doing it though...what an absolutely horrendous thing to do

MTF,
Full confession time it seems.

I originally went to my T and told him about the goggling because I found a blog that his daughter-in-law had started about his first grandchild, a little girl. His DIL was writing it as if her daughter was writing it and my T had posted a response and actually used his real name as his username. (I know I know what ARE they thinking?). I ended up reading through the whole blog which included descriptions of vacations and visits and even some pictures of my T and his wife. I felt so incredibly guilty and like I had totally violated his privacy. He wasn't at all upset when I told him about it and was so gracious that it was almost upsetting. I was so upset with what I did that it would have almost been a relief for him to have been angry with me. But I was so very grateful for his reaction because I thought for sure that he was going to terminate me. But he said something very intersting which was that his son and DIL posted that stuff on the web knowing that anyone could read it, so I hadn't really done anything wrong. And I realized he had a point. I also realized that if he was really bothered by it, I'm sure he would have asked them to protect the content somehow. My T has never really sweated the self-disclosure about facts about his life. The wall slams down when it comes to his feelings or his needs.

So I have occasionally googled him again, although I really fight the impulse because often it can end up just hurting. But in the meantime, I want to tell you what I know.

I know his family owned a vinyard in Italy a few generations back. I know the place of employment of both his father and grandfather. I know what his brother does for a living and where he lives. I know the name of both of his sisters, a couple of aunts and some of his nephew and niecesI know the address he grew up at. I know about the car accident he was in when he was 19, his one year spent in seminary, where he did his undergrad and graduate degrees, where he's worked throughout his career. His engagement date, his wedding anniversary. His wive's maiden name and at least two of her jobs. I know both of his son's names, occupations, current locations, wive's names and kids names. I found pictures of his house in the tax records. I know he went to school with the therapist who works next store and covers for him when he's not available. I know when his mother died, I know his father remarried and I know when his father died. I know where his wife works now. There is a fair amount of this information that I found out directly from him.

But here's the real motherlode. The DIL who did the blog for his granddaughter? She's love's photography and posted the URL for her shutterfly account in the comments section of the blog, so I've been looking at family pictures for almost two years now. Last spring, they came home for a visit. I have pictures of my T playing with the grandkids. I've seen the inside and outside of his house. I even have pictures of him in a bathing suit(!). I haven't talked to him about it since that first time I told him I googled because I know I'm not doing anything with the info beyond knowing it and I know that he knows it's out there. Sometimes the pictures have been wonderful and sometimes they have been incredibly painful. There was one wonderful shot of him hugging his granddaughter that was really hard to see because I knew I'll never know what that's like. But there was also something wonderful about seeing him playing and interacting with his grandkids, which was that I had seen him have so many of the same looks and emotions and attunement in sessions with me. It's what finally taught me to believe it was really him in the sessions with me. That what I saw might be limitied but was very real.

I don't know if I'm just rationalizing but I've made my peace with the fact that I know that I'm not looking to invade his life, I just have this deep need to KNOW. And I have to admit that having pictures of him has been really helpful. I really just want you to know that you're not the only one who does this. And that other people can take it pretty far.

AG

Hi MTF,

I don't have much to offer you in the way of advice, especially because I think BB and AG said it all in their posts.

Big hugs, MTF, and keep posting!

Thanks everyone for you kind words of support to me. It means a lot.

I have to agree with you Kashley that BB and AG said it all in their posts.

BB, I don't know how you knew what to say, but you had me bawling for quite a while after I read your post. Thank you for understanding and for normalizing my issues. I wish my T could see my 'stuff' the way you do, as that would make things a whole lot easier. Unfortunately I don't think she does or will, and that is why I'm so scared to put this out there to her. But you are right. Openness and honesty are the best way to deal with this, even if it is scary. Thank you for your kind message to me!

AG, I don't believe I've ever read your full confession anywhere here, so I'm honored. I hate to say it though--I know a bucketload more about my T than you do about yours. And most of it I've found out through googling. Thanks for also helping to normalize my actions for me, as well as my feelings and what drives me to do this. I just wish I didn't feel so wrong and icky for doing it. That is why I have to tell my T about it. It's like my conscience just can't let me keep it a secret, even though it scares the hell out of me to tell her. I have to face the music. I understand what you mean about some pictures just being painful, and others being helpful. It's amazing to me the lengths some of us go to to feel a connection to our Ts. Thanks for your help, AG.

Draggers, Frog, PeaceQuest and Kashley:

Thank you for your kind words of support to me, and your understanding. It's nice to have that!

I'm so glad that my words were able to help you a little bit, MTF. and I hope you can hang onto that for little while...(easier said than done, I know!)

Peacequest- very nice to meet you...I just wanted to try to respond to you. Your situation seems a little bit different than MTF's. I wanted to say, that it is very likely that if you are disturbed by what you did, and feel so badly about it, that your reasons for doing it were probably different from what you think they were. Well, and if you wanted to hurt your T or these teachers someway, than try to think, why would you have such a reaction...maybe objectively, it may seem like it was horrendous to you, yet, it sounds to me like you are simply looking for a long time for love, and perhaps, not getting it are becoming understandably angry? But, Peacequest, I am not a T- so I know how difficult it would be to talk about, yet, this is the crux of why you are in T, to get help dealing with, right? and I believe any T worth their salt is more than equipped to help you deal with and talk about all of these reactions, even in relation to their person. You are not a bad person, you are just a badly hurting person. I strongly encourage you to tell your T what you wrote here, too, as chances are, she knows all this already and wants to help!

Peace-

BB

Hi BB - thanks for your reply. You are right, it was the right thing for me to tell her.

She didn't take it too well though, because I think it hit too much of a nerve in her.

I told my T as much as the fact that I had read the AAIB report into the crash. I didn't tell her the rest because (unfortunately) her reaction to the first bit was bad enough She was really freaked out She said that maybe "I had gone too far" and when I said that that was how I was afraid she would react, she said, "Well, ok....maybe you think you went too far too".

It was not good and now I feel really, really sick I can't eat and I have an overwhelming urge to cut myself.....worse still, all the feelings that I used to get of wanting to o/d have come back (don't worry, I won't do that). She hugged me at the end of the session, but she was clearly VERY shaken. At first, she did not want to let me leave the room - I said that it was the end of the session and I should go (she had another client after me), but she wanted me to stay - she knew there was more than what I had already told her. At one point, she almost pleaded with me to stay and tell her the rest - I think she thought that I had found out the cause of the crash (the AAIB could not determine the reason) - I made it clear to her that I knew nothing more than was in the report (I don't). It was a really weird experience and has really freaked me out, as the balance of 'control' flipped to me. I was very scared by this.

I know now for sure why they say therapy is so hard; as if all the ET etc stuff isn't hard enough.

BB - I am worried that you will think you should never have told me to tell her. This is not true - despite her reaction, I am glad I told her. It will be so, so hard to work through this with her, but I know I have to.

Boy this is tough sometimes.

PeaceQuest,

I'm so sorry you're feeling really sick about talking about this to your T. I agree with BB and you that it was the right thing to do. How sad that your T didn't handle it very well. I'm sure that having the control being turned to you at the end was really unnerving and scary. I'm so sorry.

Please don't do anything to yourself! Do you have anyone you can reach out to for support? A close friend? Even a crisis line? You sound very shaken and upset by this, and rightly so.

Please know that you did the right thing in being honest with your T about this. It is so hard for us, but we do need to work through it. Hugs to you, and please be good to yourself!

MTF - don't worry, there is no chance I will do anything. I am past that now and have been for many years. It is just so, so hard inside....it feels horrible.

I am just wring my T an email now (we do that each day). I don't know how I am going to be able to see her again, I really don't. Honestly, her reaction was one of absolute shock and fear - it clearly hit something very acute. I am actually now quite worried about her - I texted her earlier and she didn't reply, which is very, very unusual.

Honestly she was really, really freaked - I think it raked up all her stuff and I just think she didn't anticipate in a million years that I was going to say what I did. And what I said her hit her right between the eyes.

She really was freaked. She said to me, "Did you find anything else???? [about the crash]". She was referring to the cause of it - she knew there was something else I knew about it that I wasn't telling her (it was about the Airfix model) and I could see the desperation in her eyes and feel the gasp as she thought that perhaps I might know the answer. But I don't. I felt so dreadful as I saw those thoughts flash across her eyes - she was nearly in tears. She was shaking too - she was clearly bowled out.

I do not know what to do now

Monte,

quote:

Besides the need to connect, is it also maybe about the imbalance in the relationship?

I think so. I feel like my mind wants to put all the pieces of the 'puzzle' together and I don't think it will be happy until I have a complete one, either! It's like until I know what it is my mind wants to know, hmmm...what's left?--oh yeah, when her birthday is and what kind of car she drives , my curiosity won't be satisfied. Okay, so I'll have to do without the last two things, but seriously it's like I just want to know that she's who I think she is outside of her office--that she's real and not just faking it all. Can I really trust her? Is she really genuine? It's like AG said in her post above about seeing her T in those photos with his grandkids interacting with them. They made her a bit sad, but at the same time she could see similar expressions, attunement, etc. that she had seen in session with him that let her know that he was being 'real' with her and it was such a comfort to her. I guess that is sort of what it comes down to for me, too. And yeah, I hate sitting on the couch across from my T and feeling like I'm about 6 years old when I'm in her office sometimes. Especially when I have to tell her about doing this sort of stuff. I feel like a naughty little girl. Imbalance? Ummm...yeah.

quote:

I have felt strong compulsions to physically stalk him. It's about that desperate need to be part of their world, to have broader access to that sense of security they provide. They get in so close and personal in that office...but outside...what? We don't exist? It's crazy stuff for those of us with attachment issues.

I haven't felt the urge to physically stalk my T before. I guess unless you call driving by her house 'stalking'. I haven't done that, but after seeing the whole front of it and the main floor in photos, I may as well have!! I hate that I did that. Just like I hate that I sat outside her office window and watched her. It just made me feel better to see her. WTH? What is it about that anyway? Why do we so desperately want/need to be a part of their world? I feel so terrible about that sometimes. It's not like my T asked me to come and be her patient. She didn't ask me to become attached to her. She didn't want me to 'need' her or develop this strange way of clinging to her when I feel desperate. Yet here I sit, feeling like this attachment freak that is likely to unnerve her when I tell her about this Wednesday. I didn't get to see her reaction the first time I 'confessed' because it was in a letter, so I have no idea how she took it all really. Maybe that's why I'm so scared about this, because I don't truly know what I'm in for.

quote:

I don't believe your T needs to know unless it is chewing you up so badly that it sends you spinning.

I wish I could see it your way. I HAVE to tell her. Something inside me (my conscience?) eats at me until I confess. I just feel the need to be totally honest with her. I feel that is what any good relationship is based on is honesty and trust (which I've totally botched, again), so if I don't get it out to her it will consume me day and night until I do. That's just me.

quote:

You are not doing anything illegal, immoral, offensive. If you're clever enough to hack into her bank account or a private blog or something, well that's different. But all you are doing is accessing what people have put out there knowing full well anyone can access it. And remember too, with compulsions, obssessions...the more we condemn ourselves for the activities, the more we feed the beast.

No, I'm definitely not clever enough to hack into bank accounts and such. Don't plan on ever becoming such, either. I've had my fair share of sleuthing, too. And as far as accessing what people have put out there knowing it's out there for anyone to access--well, my T doesn't know it's out there, I'm pretty sure!! I'm thinking she's going to be a bit miffed at her son as well.

quote:

You are not creepy MTF, just a bit lost and empty.

Don't I know it...

Thanks, Monte

PeaceQuest,

Just wondering how you're doing? Did you get your email to your T sent? Have you heard from her at all?

I'm so sorry this has been such a negative experience for you, especially as you did the right thing in talking to her about this. Clearly she needs to seek some therapy of her own to deal with some unresolved issues about her husband's death. So sad.

I wish I had some great advice for you on what to do now, as I'm sure you're really not in the best of spirits or sure of how things will play out with your T now. I hope you have had some resolution by now. Please let us know. Take care of yourself!

Hi MTF

Yes, I have heard from her - an email yesterday and then we spoke on the phone, plus a couple of texts. I wouldn't normally hear from her so often over the w/e, but she knows things have gone quite awry.

I will be ok in the long run, don't worry. It's just so, so hard at the moment. She reacted VERY badly to what I said - she made it clear that it was absolutely NOT ok that I had done what I had done and she lost the plot - especially when she pleaded with me to tell her what else I knew [about the crash]. When I spoke to her yesterday, she admitted that that was what she was asking me (I found it so incomprehensible that she might do that that I asked her point-blank if that is what she meant). This makes me think that she has some serious unfinished business re: the death of her husband, even though it happened 26 years ago.

She then went on and on about her privacy and what a concern it was to her and how she was no good - even in the 'real' world - at dealing with people who know her 'business', let alone patients knowing. She accused me of having accessed her Friends Reunited site 3 years ago and putting on it a picture of me and one of my girlfriend (I did not do this!). I tried to tell her that I hadn't done that and that maybe - because my email address was in her address book - what might have happened is that the site had searched her address book, seen my email address and my girlfriend's and suggested us as possible 'friends', if you know what I mean, and that is why our pictures had appeared there. It certainly wasn't me who put them there! I did also point out that I would have needed her password to do so!! She said that she wasn't very tech-savvie and maybe that I was right. I know I am right, because I know I didn't do it!!

In all honesty though, if she was worried about this, why did she wait 3 years to ask me about it? And why - if she is worried about people 'knowing' about her - did she have a Friends Reunited page??

Likewise, why did she tell me the details of her husband's death? It was only because she gave me so much information that I was able to find the accident report. The accident report is in the public domain (it is published material), so - in a way - what did I do wrong?

Does she seriously think her clients aren't going to google her? If she is so worried about that sort of thing, then she is in the wrong job to be honest - either that, or she should deal with her concerns elsewhere and get them sorted out and not bring them into the therapy room. In my job, I am head of a large department and have quite a 'public' role. I knew when I was offered the job that my team would 'google' me, let alone the media (on certain occasions), so I always make sure that I know what information about me is out there and that I am comfortable with what people may find. I know people in my team have googled me, because I got asked some questions by one of them about an unusual car that I own - they had found my name on the owner's club website. One of my team even discovered I had been ill whilst on holiday (his sister in law was the Drs receptionist - how she knew who I was is beyond me). What makes it really bad for me is that I have an unusual surname, so I'm easy to find! It is one of those things you have to accept in certain positions.

It is human nature, I think, for us to want to know more about our Ts. Afterall, we form a very close bond with them....they know everything about us (more-or-less), yet we know nothing about them. Googling them etc. is all about wanting to be close to them....'looking' for them even. It feels very weird to the one doing the googling though and quite uncomfortable/creepy.

I was only able to find that accident report because of things which SHE told ME:

1) What year it happened
2) That they did not find the cause of the accident
3) That he was a crewman, not a pilot
4) That they did not find his body for over a year.

Fatal helicopter accidents are not that common in the uk - there were only two that year in fact. The accident report mentions all of those things that my therapist told me. My guess is that she - over the years - has read and re-read that report time and time again and tried to work out the cause of the accident herself - it has haunted her.

So when I brought it up it was as if she was standing there, naked and exposed, and our roles had reversed - hence her question asking me if I knew more about the cause.

I am in such a dreadfully painfull place. My therapist has reacted in EXACTLY the same way as people have done in the past (ie. my teachers when I was a teenager). Not only that, but she has shown her 'weakness' at not being able to cope with what I said and now the inner child feels abandoned because her mother has gone to pieces and is no longer strong and secure. So I am as confused as hell and feel very, very alone. We went to a friend's for dinner last night and I did not speak a word. I couldn't speak. When my friend's husband spoke to me, I did not hear him. I have gone totally into my own world - like I used to as a child, I am curled up in a ball, in the dark, under my bed with the pillow over my head.

She said to me that she didn't respond to my text on Friday night, "because she needed space to sort herself out and because she had had a glass of wine". So she clearly was in a right old state.

I am worried now that me writing this will put others off telling their T things that they are afraid to. Please don't let it do that - it was a difficult decision whether to tell any of you all this, because I was worried it might make others even more scared to speak up. But I really needed to share it with someone....it is making me feel really, really bad and isolated at the moment.

I think my T should never have disclosed what she did about her husband, if she could not handle being questioned about it. It makes me ask the question, "Why did she tell me?" It was of no therapeutic value to me...so why did she say anything about it? She could have easily not done so - I would never have known any different.

But she is generally a very good T (as you will have seen from my other posts)....she is very real and human....maybe this time a little too much so though.

PeaceQuest,

I hope you're doing okay. I am sure things are still difficult for you. Thanks for the post. You are right that your T put stuff out there that she shouldn't have unless she was willing to be okay with whatever might become of it being out there. It's hard, isn't it?

I agree with Monte. You do sound like you have a good stable relationship with your T and hopefully things will be worked through and hopefully your relationship may even become stronger through all of this. Please let us know how you are doing? I'm sorry it is so hard for you right now.

MTF

I see my T tomorrow morning. I am totally freaked out and getting more stressed by the moment. I have NO IDEA how I'm going to break this news to her. Just drop it in her lap that I've stalked her and seen the outside and inside of her home? Casually mention that her son has pictures of her house up on the internet? Slowly work my way into it by talking about how this stupid Seroquel has made my head so funny that I've had all these new thoughts and fears and anxieties and that I have felt insecure, unsafe and fearful and that all of that plus not seeing her for 3 weeks drove me to madness? I want it to seem as harmless and unthreatening to her as possible, and as un-freaky and un-creepy as possible, too. Oh how I hate that I've done these things. I hate myself for being so weak and for having no impulse control!!! I'm so scared of what she is going to say/do tomorrow that it's really freaking me out. I wish I didn't have this compelling 'need' to tell her and get it out there so I can be free of it eating me up inside.

Any suggestions on how to tell this to my T?

MTF

Monte,

quote:

PS...I know what car my T drives **Monte blows rasberry at MTF**

Back at you, smarty pants!!

MTF

MTF,
The thing that I always found the most helpful when facing the kind of situation you're facing is to start by just telling my T that I need to tell him something but I'm really scared about it because I'm worried that he'll be upset and I'll get sent away. This would usually allow him to reassure me before I said anything else. It also committed me from the get go to talk about whatever it is. I'm not saying it makes it NOT scary. But it makes it a little easier. Good luck tomorrow and let us know how it goes.

AG

Monte,

quote:

let your remorse and frustration and pain do the talking. You have some sound justification for your activities...the medication and the anxiety of a 3 week break. Let this do the talking also.

I hope that I can get back in touch with those things tomorrow. It seems that the day or two before a session I start to numb up, especially if I know I have something like this to talk about. I'm hoping I can get myself into tears before she even comes to get me from the waiting area. Then I don't have to think of how I'm going to really open the conversation up to this topic, I'll already be partly there.

quote:

My T is pretty ordinary in JC's presence, I can tell you. Seriously. And when I did it, some of my fear left and I felt more courageous, because I was able to see him as ordinary...not all-powerful.

Thank you for taking the risk to put it out there this way. I think I often have my T up there in league with God in her powerfulness and that is SO not right! She's just as human as I am, you are so right there. Thank you for putting it into perspective for me like that, Monte. And thank you for the prayers for a good outcome tomorrow. I need all the help I can get!


AG,

Thanks for the advice about telling her at the start. I don't know that I will do it that way, but I guess I'll hopefully have it figured out soon. Less than 11 hours until I see her. Thanks for the well wishes. I'll post about how it goes once my head has stopped spinning.


MTF

PHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!! Breathing a BIG sigh of relief after my session with my T. I don't know why I always get myself so worked up and so flippin' scared that she is going to get angry and send me packing. I should know by now that my T is not like that. It's been a year this week since I started therapy with her and she continues to prove herself to be worth her weight in gold.

I spent most of the session staring at the floor. I told her about my medication changes and that I was feeling a bit out of control with things. She asked a few questions about some other stuff and I was okay for a little while. Once my T asked me what I was feeling so out of control about I just couldn't look her in the eye. She asked me lots of questions, trying to get to the answer, but I just couldn't spit it out. I think she was perplexed, so she started trying with all kinds of different things. She asked me to rate where my relationship is with my H, my mom, my dad, my in-laws, all on a scale of 0-10, 10 being the best. Then she wanted me to rate my relationship with her. I just can't. I don't even know, and especially where I was feeling like I had done something to destroy her trust in me I couldn't. She kept trying to coax the issues out of me, but I just didn't feel safe saying anything.

I finally told her that I hate myself and she asked me what horrible thing I could have done that would make me feel that sort of awful thing toward myself. She asked me, "Did you run over one of my grandkids?", "Did you shoot at my daughter?", and "Are you after my husband?" She was trying to lighten the mood a little, as her husband is 68 years old, and she even said, "He's an old duffer, so I doubt you are, but unless it's something like one of these things, I'm not going to react." She asked if I am still on here interacting with all of you, and I said I was. She asked if that is helping me at all. I said sometimes, and sometimes not. I told her about those that have had their T's terminate them because of their attachment issues. She said she would never do that. I told her that is what their Ts said, too. I do believe my T, I feel she is committed to me and to helping me get through this. She said if there is any termination it will be me that does it.

Anyway, I don't remember what I said, but she realized I was back online doing more searching. I told her it wasn't like before, and she said that she would tell me whatever I want to know, I just have to ask her. She kept getting me off track, making jokes about things, or asking me questions that weren't really relevant to what I needed to tell her. She kept asking me to be honest with her and just tell her, and she emphasized the fact that I had promised no more letters would be delivered. She said she didn't want me to go out to my car and be filled with remorse and regret that I didn't get it out in session. It took me until about 7 minutes before the hour was up before I finally got up the courage to say something. I told her about her son having pictures on the web of the inside and outside of her house. She said, "Bxxxxxx? Little jerk. (She didn't say that in an angry or malicious tone, either.) Yeah, I guess he did come out in the middle of it", meaning the remodelling process. She went on about how he likely had the photos on there so her other sons who live in other states could see the house. She made jokes and asked me if he had pictures on there of their back yard that is 'au natural' with a bunch of fruit trees in their 'natural state', leading to the golf course their house backs up to. She was actually pretty funny about it and said she really doesn't care that I've seen her house. She said if I drove by her house and came up to the front door and knocked, she'd invite me in. Okaaaaayy. So that was a little weird. But the point she was really trying to get across was that she knows I have an emotional attachment to her, that she is not bothered by it, that she is okay with me, is not afraid of me knowing what I know about her, doesn't care that I've seen the inside of her house, told me again that she is willing to tell me whatever I want to know about her if I will just ask her, and she again spent lots of time this session trying to normalize my attachment issues. She told me it really hurts her to hear me say that I hate myself because of my behavioral issues that are related to my attachment issues. She really wants me to work on changing the negative self-talk.

At the end she got right up close. I both hate it and love it when she does that. She knows I can't NOT look at her when she's right there, and while I oftentimes don't like having to look at her, it's then that that limbic connection gets made and things really click between us. This might sound really silly and little girlish, but my T looks so beautiful when she looks into my eyes and gets up close like that, it's like her soul just shines through her face and eyes somehow. She told me about how her hope for me as we move into our new home next month is that I can really work on forming some deep, abiding attachments to other women--women that can be more a part of my life than she can; strong women that can be there through the transitions in life, especially the painful ones. She said we'll work on our relationship and she'll help me learn how to better do relationships as we go. She got a little teary while she was saying all of this. I wish I could remember word for word what she said, as there was a lot I'm missing here. It was really special, as it was what she wants for me and it felt deeply personal and sincere. Gosh, I miss her already. Sometimes I wonder why I'm doing this to myself.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your encouragement and support. It means a lot.

MTF

I am so glad that it worked out well, MTF...it is always such a relief when they meet us where we are, isn't it? Good for you. I'm glad to hear also that your T trusts you with all of that...that should say a lot to you about the kind of person she knows you are.
Hug for you...

BB

MTF- CONGRATS!! i am so happy for you- i can *feel* your reliefe and your poster made me laugh (i dont know- i guess i "sensed" the nerve and joyful- yet emberassed tone in the session!)

I just arrived from a reliefing session my self- so i relate so much to the feeling of going from totally scared/nervous/shameful- to the oposite- when our T`s change all our worst fears.

Have a good day- and allow yourself to embrace all these good feelings

(haha- i cant believe your T said she would invite you in her house! THAT my T would never allowed me to do i know for sure! She sounds amazing..the way she made ou feel safe and understood!

Thanks, All! Today I'm having a hard day. Seems like that always happens the day after an intense session.

PG: Yes, I think that my T is pretty special. She has her issues, but she always comes through when I need her to the most. Thanks for your post of support!

Monte: Thanks! That love and understanding were greatly needed. And the humor was classic for my T. Sometimes I get lots more than at others, but after the card I gave her 3 weeks ago, I think she hammed it up a bit for my benefit, as her sense of humor was one of the traits I told her I love about her.

BeeBee: I was glad that she trusts me with all of that, too--your kind comment about what that says about what she thinks about me means a lot. Thank you!

Mad Hatter: Good to 'see' you around again. All 3 of your T's vehicles, huh? Lucky!! You and Monte just have to rub it in, don't you. Thanks for being relieved for me. My T has made great strides in the past couple of months in her ability to connect with me. I don't know what changed with her, but I'm not about to question it. And I agree that it helps to keep in mind the success stories over the failed T relationships. If we don't, the fear can become unbearable.

Dragonfly: Thanks for thinking I'm brave. It really boils down to whether or not I could live with the guilt for 3 more weeks until my next session. Nope. I couldn't and I knew it. Noooooooo, I won't be knocking on my T's front door now. I can't believe she would even tempt me with that. That was kind of cruel, if you ask me. Sad thing is, she was serious. But I would never have the guts to actually follow through with something like that. How weird would that be?! "Hi T! Just driving by your house and thought I'd stop in and say 'hi'!" Yeah, right. Sheesh. Some of what she's okay with is really weird for me. Anyway, thanks for calling me an "inspiration". I'm flattered!

Frog: So glad that you had an equally relieving session with your T. Yes, my T is amazing. I think I'll keep her!

Thanks again, everyone.

MTF

Hey, MTF...I see a little pattern here, I do myself, with something else...it's like, you can't let yourself enjoy the good feeling from the session, you have to find something else to worry you...??? Well, I am just worried because now you sound all worried about her saying, she woudl invite you in would you knock on her front door. Well, I think, my T has done the same kind of thing, in not understanding that in some strange way, I will take such a statement seriously, while my intellect will understand that it is hyperbole. So, can I just say, that , at least from my perspective, she said such a things for effect, and not in all seriousness? i hope that will help with the worry a little bit...

BB

MTF! I've been reading and just wanted to say EXCELLENT job to both of you!! I'm very happy your session went so well. Great job!!

Strummergirl: Thank you!

Blackbird: She really WAS serious. She followed that by saying, "I know you wouldn't show up at my house in the middle of the night, or anything like that." I think she knows I wouldn't have the courage to actually come to her house, she was just saying that because she was trying to let me know that she is okay with me knowing what her house looks like and that she trusts me. She's pretty open with people. You just have to know my T to understand her I think. She's absolutely unlike anyone I know. And if that wasn't enough, she asked me what she could do that would help her feel (to me)more like a part of my circle of friends. She said she doesn't have a facebook and wouldn't know what to do with one if she did. I didn't answer her. I just sat there thinking, "Ummm, aren't you supposed to be my T, not my girlfriend??" I was really confused by her asking me that. Things got a little weird for me at that point. She asked me that question because she said she senses that I'm afraid of the attachment I have to her, and I think she wants to help me feel more secure about my attachment. I think she just wants me to see her as someone safe to be attached to, and know that she is there for me if/when I need her. I never call her or ask her for anything. Anyway, she definitely has her own ideas about how to help me with my attachment issues, and I trust that she's not going to do anything that I don't ask her to do or give her permission to do, so it's up to me. It just worries me that she's willing to do something that isn't within the therapeutic frame/proper boundaries of therapy. I don't know. That's why I'm having a hard day today. New things got brought up that I wasn't looking at ever having to deal with or even just think about. Thanks for your thoughts, BB.

MTF

All of this is well said, Monte...! MTF, I think it's like we have basically really good T's, but when they screw up even a little , it reaaaaallllllly messes with us. and then, sometimes, maybe they have to make a choice to "screw up" because it is the lesser of two evils in how to help us, sometimes, I think that too. I don't know how Ag's T walks that line...phew.

BB

Oh the poor little fairies lost their homes

Dragonfly,

I'm sorry you felt like you needed to delete your post. I know things have been really difficult for you lately. Therapy is tough stuff, isn't it? Especially when we love our Ts and they just can't do things the way we need them to. I hope you're okay. I worry about you. Thank you for the hugs. Sending many back your way! ((((((((Dragonfly))))))))

MTF

quote:

Maybe AGs situation is one of serendipity...the right blend of personalities producing the optimum outcome. (NOT discounting a bucketload of courage and commitment to sheer hard work on AGs part).

Monte,
Thank you for acknowledging my courage and commitment but I do want to say that you could not be more spot on. My T and I have actually discussed this. He's a good therapist and I believe is capable of helping a lot of people, but I honestly believe he was my theraputic soul mate so to speak. I think how he works, and where he sets his boundaries, were perfect for me and that's why I was able to do so much healing with him.

I actually see a nurse practioner at a psychiatrist's office to over see my ADs. I see her for a 15 min appt once every three months and we don't go into a lot but I usually give her an overview of how things are going. I really like her and have a very easy rapport. She was really excited for me about my progress but she said something really interesting to me that I think really supports what you said. She asked who my therapist was and when I told her the name, she said that she had heard good things about him from other patients, but no one has spoken so highly about him as me. My T has told me time and again that what makes the work so fascinating is that every person has a unique path to healing and how it unfolds is different for everyone. The truth is that we can learn from other people's experiences, that understanding helps, but each of us must find our own way to walk. I was blessed with the exact right guide for my journey.

AG

Monte,

Your post was quite thought provoking for me. I was quite surprised to learn that your T has offered you so much in the past. Now I can really understand why your relationship with him causes the 'squashiness' in your head. Seriously, that kind of stuff, while coming from a well-meaning T, could really mess with a person's head and heart. I relate so well to what you say here:

quote:

I declined most of his offers, but valued them hugely...took them in deeply, interpreting them as offers of friendship and permanence.

and here especially :

quote:

I am confused about who he is and what the possibilities are...some areas have been blurred. Therapy has crawled because I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out his place in my life. I am still agonising over it. The offers he made and the hope they evoked can't be undone and I don't know if I will ever be able to see him as just a therapist. I don't want to. I like him too much as a 'real' person. So I have gained on one level, but lost on another...because on the rare occasion that I am able to put all the confusion aside and go with the therapeutic flow, I can see he is really good at what he does...but I stumble over the other stuff...get bogged in it.

This is the stuff that is just sending me spinning around and around. And I've only known my T for a year!! UGH. Her post-therapy lunch offer really messed with me, and now this new stuff has gone and done a real doozie on me. She asked me a couple months ago about my fantasy relationship with her. Of course I didn't say a word, as I really didn't do fantasy, especially about her, and I wasn't going to tell her what I did 'dream' of because things like that to me are embarrassing and honestly painful because they'll never come true, right? They're 'fantasy'. Well, it's almost like her asking me that triggered my brain to start having fantasies about a future relationship with her, and while I try my best to push those thoughts out of my head rather than entertain them, her saying these kinds of things about inviting me into her home if I were to stop by, and asking me what she can do to seem more like a part of my circle of friends to me really get my mind going in the wrong direction, if you know what I mean. Even though I know she means well, it sort of makes me angry at her.

And boy do I see myself and my T here:

quote:

but I was so, so under the radar in my responses...he didn't realise how much I was taking from his offers.

I struggle so much when my T asks me things about my relationship with her. I never want to answer her because a)I don't want her to see how important she is to me; b)I don't want her to either withdraw offers or think twice about offering things in the future.

quote:

I don't see my T as having screwed up...I appreciate the bind they may find themselves in when they encounter clients that struggle to connect and communicate within the limitations of normal boundaries. He really had to work hard to engage with me, to create a relationship that to me 'rang true'...or felt 'real'. I still struggle with 'real' though.

Me too.

quote:

Circumstances/idiosyncracies/malfunctions of the client aside though, personality must surely have a bearing on how a T connects with a client, mustn't it?

I think it does. But this is my first experience with a T, so who am I to say?

Thanks for sharing your experiences with me here. Even if you don't have the solution , it helps to comiserate a bit.

quote:

And my story isn't finished yet anyway!

That a girl, Monte!!! Way to have a positive attitude!

Hugs to my T twin!,
MTF

Hi everyone - I am sorry I have not replied for a long while. Things have been very hard for me over the last few weeks and I have literally just shut off from the entire world and have hidden away. I haven't even lurked on the forum - I have just hidden myself in a big, dark hole.

Things with my T are still quite shaky after my confession a few weeks ago. It has got a bit better over the last two sessions though and on Friday I even let her hug me and it felt ok for the first time in weeks.

Monte you were so right when you said:

quote:

Your predicament hammers home the reality that they are indeed human. I guess such an enourmous loss (hers) may remain unfinished business, even after 26 years, if there are unanswered questions. Regardless of how good a T she is, she would have her ghosts and frailties like anyone else, and through a fairly unique chain of events, you have stumbled upon one of them...and she has been triggered. That must feel awful for you...you need her to be stable and able to cope with anything you throw at her.

It has felt like she is totally unstable and I have felt massive, massive guilt over what I did. It has felt liked she HATES me for what I did and that I was so, so bad, weird, strange, creepy, etc.,, etc.,....all this was made worse by the fact that she falsely accused me of 'tampering' with her Friends Reunited page (I did not!). It has left me with huge feelings of paranoia. I have also reverted back to my old pattern of trusting no one; shutting everyone out etc., etc., which in turn has led to major feelings of isolation, paranoia, loneliness, hopelessness, etc. I also reverted back to old coping strategies: drinking, self-harming (nothing major - please do not worry) and so on. All this leaves me feeling empty and useless.

Anyway....my T is now offering me an extended session on a Wednesday night (1hr 15mins instead of 50mins), but I am not sure what to do. I am worried that I will get worse and more and more dependent on her (like I am not already anyway!!??!!) and then there is the cost....I pay for my therapy myself (as you have to in the UK as insurance does not cover it) and it is costing me a fortune.

I just feel such a mess and as if I will never get better. To make matters worse, I am scared to get better too, as that would mean not seeing my T again and I love her to bits and cannot imagine my life without her in it.

I am becoming quite preoccupied with thoughts of 'what if she is no longer in my life' and that is not helping either. I thinking it is making me feel worse, as it makes me scared to 'get better' (if that makes any sense?!). She did once hint (ages ago) that at the end of therapy it may be possible to keep in touch by letter - has anyone ever heard of this happening before? - but the thought of only being able to write to her and never to see her or hug her again makes me burst into tears (as it has just done now) and it feels so painful.

Sorry to be such a moaner and to be so negative - I am a bit of a mess at the moment.

I love my T so much - she has become my foster mother - and I feel so confused.

PQ ~ oh I am so gladyou posted... I have been following and was wondering ghow you were. I'm so sorry you are hurting so bad.

I have to agree with this:

quote:

Does she seriously think her clients aren't going to google her? If she is so worried about that sort of thing, then she is in the wrong job to be honest - either that, or she should deal with her concerns elsewhere and get them sorted out and not bring them into the therapy room.

I read an article recently, it was actuallyin the waiting room of my T's office - she shares a waiting room with other T's. It was an article written to T's talking about how they must becareful and aware about what they allow to be posted about them online and be very careful on facebook and other sites like flicker and ecterta. It was stated so clearly - clients will google them, search for them... Especially in this day and age with facebook and my spcae and so many social networking sites and a culture that seeks to know everyone's stuff, people are more and more "aclimate" to knowing or seeking... which doesn't make it right, but does mean it's easy to do. If it was harder to do, I think it would be scarier. When my T told of her husbands death, I have to admit, I googled it too using the info she gave. nothing came up, and I'm kinda glad for it. But I did look... And I think for both of us, it's important to deal with and talk about why we looked.

PG, I am bothered by your T's response. It really feels like she has some very stong unresolved matters herself. It feels like she is really putting a lot of stuff on you that is not yours - and not just accusing you of messing with that page, but the emotions and feelings behind a lot of stuff that have nothing to do with you. Please, please don't take on her stuff as your responsibility. You are only responsible for you. You are not responsible for her reaction to it... Oh, I know that is SO much easier said than done.

I can understand why you are feeling what sounds like some pretty strong abandonment fears. It's my understanding that sometimes (and this may not be true for you at all) we look to know more about our T because we like them or don't and want to understand them more - like... it's a part of tranference. And it's important to sort through and talk about with your T.

Just this last week I half absentmindedly asked my T a question about her family. Then I stopped. I got worried, feeling like a fool for asking a personal question about her family... She handled it super well, and asked me why I asked... and it led to a great conversation that helped me get to know her better in a better way, and helped me normalize something I was feeling too...

It doesn't sound like your T has good enoug boundaries with her own stuff to help you in this and that is really awful. I'm so sorry.

It does make a lot of sense why you are scared she will leave. A person who has been of such support to you is now almost attacking or well, being anything but supportive.

Please please as much as you can, let go of the guilt or at least hear me say, it's not as bad as it might feel right now... it's clear you care for your t a lot and didn't want to spook her - but her freaking out is not your fault. what you did is not something to beat yourself up endlessly for.

It also sounds like your t does still care for you and still wants to work this out and support you through this. Working through this together with your t could help some deeper issues too - and in the end it could make an eventual ending easier... but that ending may not be now...

I hope you can share your feelings that you have posted with her and that she can hear them, hear your heart, and that you two can work through this.

Right now, maybe try to put aside the thoughts of ending. It sounds like you want to stay in and she is willing and if you can even use some sessions to work through your fears...

Oh, I don't have much that is good to say and if I am totally off track, just please ignore. I have strong abandonment feelings at times myself. I am just begining to find things that help - and one of them is the one that scares me the most. Talking about it, even with the person I'm afraid of them leaving. At one point my abandonment fears were so strong I came undone, and my T wanted to see me more - and for me, that didn't help. I do know it is really helpful for some. Instead, we learned for me, and my specific case, I have to almost back up or at least stay steady in the amount of appointments, and get a lot of reassurance from my T, including a small stone bear she lets me keep with me during the week just to remind me of her and that she is not leaving, and I sorta settle out. It works different for different people - and talking about it seems key... and I know, it's really super scary.

If the therapy with her ends, it sounds like she won't leave you hanging without any support either and that she is sensitive to how hard endings are. My old T wasn't. My current T (that I ended with once before and we re-started) was - and it was very different and in the long run, very healing with my current T.

I hope you can find some peace and comfort and rest...

and really, do try to be kind to yourself. we all make mistakes. I think what you did, at the very worst, was a small human mistake... and that your T is terribly overreacting...

ack, here I go rambling again.

take care
~jane

Hi Jane

Nice to 'speak' with you

I am sorry I haven't updated on my goings on for a few weeks - you know how it is - I just go through these phases of shutting everyone and everything out. Weird, because then that makes me have all sorts of feelings about abandonement etc....but I guess that is why I am in therapy....

You said

quote:

When my T told of her husbands death, I have to admit, I googled it too using the info she gave. nothing came up, and I'm kinda glad for it. But I did look... And I think for both of us, it's important to deal with and talk about why we looked.

I do wonder why my T told me anything at all, if she wasn't prepared to deal with the aftermath of the enevitable. She is clearly aware of the likelihood of clients googling her etc, as we have discussed many times how she doesn't have a Facebook page etc., so why she should expect me not to 'go on the hunt' after a revelation like that (especially when she told me about it when I had only been seeing her for a few months and the relationship was still at the time very strange and new) I do not know. I am not trying to dismiss what I did, but I do think she was the one 'in the know' here ie. she should have realised the likely consequences. Had she had not said anything, I would never have known about it. So perhaps, if she couldn't deal with my reaction, she should have kept that knowledge to herself. To give her the benefit of the doubt though, I think she told me because she wanted to reveal her 'human' side - she wanted to show me that she was 'real'. I do think that I have been dragged into her stuff though and that is very hard for me.

I am wondering what you may be thinking about why your T told you about her husband?

quote:

It doesn't sound like your T has good enough boundaries with her own stuff to help you in this and that is really awful. I'm so sorry.

I don't know why, but it really hurts when I think about that. I think maybe I like to imagine my T as perfect - even though, of course, she is not. It pains me greatly to admit you may be right here. I am so scared to discuss this with her in case she retreats behind a wall and never tells me anything again and becomes cold and distant. Yet, at the same time, whilst I don't approach the subject with her, I am carrying that pain on my own. Added to this, these 'undiscussed' matters make me feel as if she hates me and holds a grudge against me for what I did. I feel dirty and unloved/unlovable. All this seems so unfair.

quote:

It also sounds like your t does still care for you and still wants to work this out and support you through this. Working through this together with your t could help some deeper issues too - and in the end it could make an eventual ending easier... but that ending may not be now...

Yes, I think my T does care for me (even though this is sometimes hard to believe/accept). She certainly goes to great lengths sometimes to make sure I am supported and have a secure base. I really love her for that; some of the things she does show tremendous committment (like replying to my emails each day - something she has done for the past FOUR years!!). The thought of there ever being an ending is too scary to even contemplate though - and that really freaks me out

I see her at her house - she works from home, as a lot of private Ts do in the UK - so much of her real life I can see without asking anything. I really like this, as it somehow makes things less painful, even though at times it can be uncomfortable...like the time when I needed the loo and had to go into the main house bit (her therapy room has a separate front entrance to the house, so you don't usually go into the house itself). It was also painful when her second husband left her - it was obvious as his car was no longer on the drive and you could somehow tell there was no one else in the house anymore. It took me 3 months to summon up the courage to ask about my observations...and then a very awkward conversation followed, as you can imagine. This was especially awkward, as about 3 months earlier, I had come into one session and my T had obviously been crying loads and was all shaky. Of course, I had put the two things together and it was eating away at me....hence why I HAD to ask the question. Yes, the reason why she had been upset that session was because her husband had literally just told her he was leaving her 5 minutes before I walked through the door. She dealt with that instance well though and it was all ok and put to bed.

I don't think for one minute my T will leave me without any support if things end. She knows I have had previous Ts/Ps who have done this (THREE TIMES it has happened to me!!) and she herself had that happen to her when she was in therapy years ago. One day (she told me) she went to see her T and noticed that the room seemed more bare than usual. Her T then told her that she was moving house and that she would not be able to see her anymore. Can you imagine???? That is like my world's worst nightmare!!!! Anyway, my T told me she knew what that was like first hand and so she would make sure she never did anything like that to me. I don't think she ever would...but there is always that fear, if you know what I mean...

It is nice that you have the stone bear. My T gives me a small toy mouse wearing a miniture T-shirt with her name on when she goes away. I have it with me at the moment, because I haven't given it back from when she was away at the end of August. I have never held onto it before after she has returned - I am not quite sure why I am doing so now, except to say that perhaps it feels as if she has not come back yet and/or is not there (because of our recent difficulties).

Jane, you did not ramble...it was lovely to hear from you Thank you for the time you spent in replying.

Best wishes

PQ

Hi Peacequest - I’m sorry that the fallout from your disclosing about having looked up your T’s first husband’s accident is still raining down on you. It does seem like your only option is to be able to talk it out with her - hopefully she will be able to do that without being defensive. Otherwise, as you are describing, you’re ending up feeling like she is angry or offended at you - even though she probably isn’t!

Wow that must have been difficult for you with her second husband’s leaving, to come in to therapy immediately afterwards. No matter what, you must have felt bad for her, and inevitably put your own needs second to considering how she must have been feeling. I’m glad you’ve worked through that one. She sounds like she hasn’t had a very happy marital history, must make it hard for you not to feel sorry for her and want to look out for her.

Wanted to comment on the therapy space you mentioned. Yeah here in UK it seems an awful lot of Ts practise from their own homes - it’s not something I’ve ever been terribly comfortable with, I always felt like I was intruding into private space, on the one hand being restricted to a bit of the house shut off specifically for therapy (like having to use the servant’s entrance lol) on the other hand being constantly aware of the T’s own life and private space all around, of which I wasn’t and couldn’t be a part. Too many clues about who T is in real life, stuff I really don’t want to know.

I’m much happier now that new T has a separate office totally divorced from any real life connection with him personally. The room itself tells me all I need to know about him and I’m very pleased that I don’t have to see things like I used to with other Ts that indicated things going on in their lives (even trivial stuff like seeing tomato seedlings on the laundry windowsill - let me see T was a gardener and as I am too, there’s an instant real world connection that … I don’t know, made me want to ‘get on with him’ in a real world way, and that actually detracted from the therapy).

I guess it all depends though doesn’t it? On what one feels comfortable with and on the kind of approach T has. Sorry for waffling off topic completely!

Have to say that even though I don’t want to know T in any other way than purely as a T, that didn’t stop me from googling him, and if I’d found anything, I’m damn sure I would have read it all, several times over. I would have thought that all Ts would be clued up enough to realize that whatever they say, a client is going to be interested enough to want to find out more. Goes with the territory doesn’t it? It does sound as if your T simply wasn’t expecting you to take much notice of what she told you, didn’t think of the possible outcomes. I hope she has realized now that there was nothing sinister in your searching out that info.

Hope you can resolve this issue with your T soon.

LL