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21 replies

Unfocused anger (rant warning)

russrussMember
<rant>

I had a lousy session tonight. I felt OK all day, but then as soon as I got into my T's office and started talking, I just became incredibly frustrated and angry. But I couldn't describe what exactly I felt, or who I was angry at. All I could say was that I was angry at my situation, and all the forces in my life that have put me here. That would include a lot of people.

My T tells me that this kind of unfocused anger won't get me anywhere, and that there are so many "filters" between my anger and its source/target that it's making it impossible for me to get it out. Yeah, no kidding. Tell me something I don't know!

Ok, so this makes sense to me, but how the hell do you go about getting rid of the filters so I can expunge this poison, I ask him? His answer...what else; more talking. Talking talking talking talking. I'm so f-ing sick of talking about myself and my parents and my life that I wanna puke. The ratio of therapy to actual, real improvement is so totally out of whack that I don't know what else to do. And every day that goes by just adds more frustration to an already bad situation. You need an electron microscope to measure my "improvement."

So I'm curious to know if others struggle with this intense anger that doesn't have a clear source or target, and what your experiences have been with it. My T was trying SO hard to get me to be angry with him, but I don't even know if I am angry with him. I don't wanna invent some anger just to be angry.

I just ended up sitting there, baking in frustration and anger and saying, "this sucks." I feel like it's eating me alive and I just want it get it out of me.

Thanks for any feedback.
Russ

</rant>
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russrussMember
quote:
Originally posted by Summer:
...but I would insist I was angry at the process of therapy, the situation we were in, not him personally.



Summer, that's exactly what I always say. I mean like word for word. It feels good to know I'm not alone in this.

I think it is possible that I'm angry with him, but like you, I can't feel it (or refuse to feel it) out of fear that he'll drop me or something bad will happen.

I'm so sorry about your situation. It sounds awful, and you certainly have every reason on Earth to be angry about it. I hope something works out. Please keep us posted, and thanks so much for your reply.

Russ
chronicallytransferredchronicallytransferredMember
Russ-

quote:
So I'm curious to know if others struggle with this intense anger that doesn't have a clear source or target, and what your experiences have been with it.


OMG yes, I definitely struggle with INTENSE, blinding anger. I acutally got angrier tonight then I have in long time. Often there is some sort of trigger, like tonight, but not always. Plus, I can't just be kinda angry; it's either I'm really super freakin angry or nothing. So little silly things send me WAY OVER THE EDGE.

However, I do have a target... not a legitimate one mind you, but a target. The only person I have ever really been able to be angry with is me. I don't yell at other people or lash out really; I just take it out on myself. Oh- I also like to hit things... well, I don't LIKE to, but you know what I mean.

As far as anger with my T, I've never really been angry with her. She's never really said she wanted me to be either. It's weird, I know I have a lot of anger toward my parents, but I don't really know how to direct it. I can pretty much just acknowledge that it should be there, but I can't really express it I guess. I was never allowed to be angry with ANYONE when I was little (my mom actually used to get MAD at me if I was angry with someone...) and I am deathly afraid of ever having an actual argument (I freeze, literally stop talking and moving). I guess I realized that if I directed my anger at myself, she couldn't see it and discourage it. And she wouldn't get angry at me. Oh, it's all so darn confusing.

Hmmm... I don't think I am writing very clearly or if I am even responding to what you were asking... I'll just say that yes, i often feel angry and don't really know why, or I overract to small stuff and just BLOW and STEAM for hours. I do get mad when I leave sessions sometimes too, jut pissed off in general about the fact that my parents got to screw around and I have to clean up after them... and I get really angry that I have to parent myself again.

I agree with Summer, the process is pretty awful and it is the easiest thing to be mad at. After all, at first glance, the stirring up we do in therapy seems to be what is so disruptive (ever heard yourself say "I didn't have this problem before I started therapy...").

Sorry you had a bad session Russ. At least your feeling though. Just keep writing.

-CT
russrussMember
quote:
Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:

OMG yes, I definitely struggle with INTENSE, blinding anger. I acutally got angrier tonight then I have in long time. Often there is some sort of trigger, like tonight, but not always. Plus, I can't just be kinda angry; it's either I'm really super freakin angry or nothing. So little silly things send me WAY OVER THE EDGE.


Yep, same here, CT.

quote:
Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:

However, I do have a target... not a legitimate one mind you, but a target. The only person I have ever really been able to be angry with is me. I don't yell at other people or lash out really; I just take it out on myself.


Again, same here.

quote:
Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
It's weird, I know I have a lot of anger toward my parents, but I don't really know how to direct it. I can pretty much just acknowledge that it should be there, but I can't really express it I guess. I was never allowed to be angry with ANYONE when I was little (my mom actually used to get MAD at me if I was angry with someone...) and I am deathly afraid of ever having an actual argument. Oh, it's all so darn confusing.


CT, were we separated at birth? Seriously, this is exactly me. I few weeks ago, I was actually experiencing some real anger toward my parents, especially my mom, but it seems to have gone away.

Thanks for the response. It's amazing how much we have in common.

Russ
I incognitoMember
CT and Russ,

I have the same experiences of anger. My mother used to tell me children weren't allowed to be angry only adults were. When I grew up I realized she meant only she was allowed to get angry. I can't even be angry at others in front of her without out her getting angry, or belittling me. The only people I can get angry with are my children and I try not to.

I once had a session with my T when I was so angry with him I couldn't speak. I said 4 things in an hour. One was "did you know how upset I was when I left you a message?" he answered by repeating what I said with a slightly different tone on the HOW word and instantly my anger was transferred to myself. Obviously he couldn't tell how upset I was, I was an idiot to expect him to contact me etc. I'm always finding ways to be angry at myself not anyone else if not I'm too uncomfortable.
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
Hi Russ,
Hang in there, you'll get to your anger! As you keep paying attention to how you're feeling, being able to stay with your feelings and expressing them the anger will get better also.

I know for me that there was a vast amount of fear built up around my anger. In my family the ONLY person allowed to get angry was my dad. Getting angry drew the kind of attention that you just didn't want to draw. But at the same time the way I was being treated was rage inducing and should have been. But since getting angry could get me hurt I had to learn to be REALLY scared of the anger. So its still feels VERY threatening to let myself experience it. There's also the fear that if I become angry I will also become violent like my dad. I can still remember the day the 400 WATT lightbulb went off when my T explained that there waa a difference between anger and violence.

And when I get angry I start out angry with myself, then angry at my T, and then angry with my parents where it rightfully belongs. I can still remember the first time I actually got angry at my dad without first hitting me and my T. He was really excited (and not just because he didn't bear the brunt of it.)

And getting angry at my T felt like I would lose him. The first time I was trying to tell him I was angry at him (over a session cancellation) I looked at him and told him that I was scared that if I told him I was angry he would leave me. I expected him to reassure me and instead he asked one of his hard questions (he's really good at those!) and said, "there's only one way to find out, isn't there?"

The most important thing to remember is that emotions are NOT rational. We do get angry at our Ts and it's often misplaced anger. Invoked by something they did that makes us feel the way we did when we were kids. Its like ANY other emotion. Evidence to examine about how we react and relate. And our Ts are more than capable of accepting our anger as well as our sadness and pain. They get its not really about them. You're finally in a safe enough place to BE angry but it makes sense that it will take awhile to learn how. Its just another one of the emotions you were never taught to regulate.

You'll get there Russ, you really will. I know progress can be frustratingly, painfully slow but you are progressing. You're going to heal. And if you worry about how long its taking, remember that with me around they'll always be someone slower than you! Big Grin

AG
russrussMember
incognito and AG,

Thanks so much. If nothing else, I am seeing myself in everyone's responses. It's truly amazing how much I feel exactly like everyone here.

quote:
I know for me that there was a vast amount of fear built up around my anger.


check. Although I can't feel the fear, I know it's there.

quote:
Getting angry drew the kind of attention that you just didn't want to draw. But at the same time the way I was being treated was rage inducing and should have been.


check. Although my Dad wasn't violent, his energy, language, tone and expression was pure hostility. If I got angry, there was never any attempt to find out why. It was basically, "shut the hell up."

quote:
And getting angry at my T felt like I would lose him.


check. Still feels that way.

quote:
I can still remember the day the 400 WATT lightbulb went off...


I want this so badly i can taste it. I want some lightbulbs to go off!!!

Thanks again, guys. I get more encouragement here than anywhere else, that's for sure.

Russ
thedudethedudeMember
I not read all those posts on this. But i were angry at my T this week. I suppose I get angry lots at myself and at her too HA! (my poor T). She wanted to sit beside me but i said no. She said the pillow beside me was like her beside me. So i hit it to death. (if you can hit a pillow to death that is). And actually i felt much better.

Samy
chronicallytransferredchronicallytransferredMember
Hey Russ...

First of all, yes, I think we were separated at birth... I vaguely remember your avatar from when I was in the womb... Wink

Anyway, I was doing some writing tonight about my anger and stuff, and I thought you (and anybody else) might be interested in where it's taking me. ****FYI: SI TRIGGER****

quote:
I’m angry that I’m angry. I don’t wanna be angry. I’m pissy and irritable and annoyed and frustrated and I don’t know why. I wanna cut and just go to sleep when I feel this way. I have no direction with these feelings. I am trying not to turn it on myself but I have no idea how to direct it anywhere else. What am I supposed to do with it? Being mad at people doesn’t solve anything, but I still feel this shit. I can’t turn it off and I am triggered by the stupidest things. I’ve had really strong urges to throw and hit stuff lately. I am having really impulsive thoughts and am having to constantly rein myself in. And I have no words. I don’t even know why I’m angry. All I know is I want to cause harm to myself. I don’t know any other way of making myself feel better when I get like this. I try to avoid getting this angry, but I feel like I am constantly on edge; hyper-vigilant. What the f*** is wrong with me? Why do I feel this way? This feels really really really bad.

The shitty part is that I learned this anger mismanagement from my mother, but I don't know how to get unstuck from her/my ways. I don’t know what else to do with these feelings. I’m all for teaching myself a new way of dealing with this shit, but I feel out of control in the moment. I try to talk myself into doing something physical to get this anger out, but I can’t make myself go and do it. When I’m angry, I don’t want to do anything other than be angry. I resist doing anything that will take away from the anger.

What sucks is I remind myself of my mother when I am like this. It’s almost like the things I do when I’m angry re-traumatize me. I feel myself making a motion or slamming something or making a facial expression she made, and that triggers an internal response from when I was little. So it’s like I’m REALLY ANGRY and SCARED OF ME at the same time. It makes me want to cut even more- deeper and carelessly, in an effort to remove her face from my head. I hate seeing her and remembering her and thinking about how much I loved and adored her but was so scared of her. She was my sole focus for so long and she didn’t give a f*** about me. I was a means to an end for her and that is it- pills were her life. I want no part of me to resemble her, which is paradoxical because if I DON’T give a f*** about her, then I am LIKE her for not caring about the people I am supposed to love. But I can’t let myself feel anything for her either. I shun any feelings of compassion for her, or sympathy, much less love or forgiveness. I don’t want to let her off the hook. But like everything else, she isn’t feeling the consequences for her shitty parenting job either. No, that role is again left to me. Why must I clean up this mess of hers too? How do I hold her accountable and move on? I know blame doesn’t get me anywhere, but it feels good.

Sometimes, I wish she were alive, just so I could make her suffer. I wish she were here just so I could be estranged from her and have her know that I chose not to be near her. How I would have loved to have gotten married and not have invited her. I want her to hurt, and not because of all the other shit in her life, but because of me! I want her to feel my rage like I felt hers; to instill the fear in her that she instilled in me.

But I know all of this anger and meanness is pointless. All of this is retaliatory because she hurt me so badly. I just don’t know how to get through the anger to get to the sadness and pain. I don’t want to go there. I shut that shit out for a reason, you know. I don’t want to accept the fact that I was abused, neglected, mistreated and used. I don’t want to own that, to accept it as my past. I think that is what keeps me thinking that there was truth in the way she saw me. If I wasn’t good enough and I deserved to be treated the way she treated me, then it all makes sense. But to say that there was nothing wrong with me, that I was loveable and good enough, well, then it all just really hurts. It is easier to see myself as the f***-up. It hurts less to think that I deserved exactly what I received than it does to think that I deserved more than what I got.

There is this increasing conflict in me between the part that says “CT, you didn’t deserve to be treated the way she treated you” and the part that says “seriously? C’mon, you know you’re a f***-up. Nobody, not even her, would have treated you that way if you didn’t deserve it.” There is a lot of tension between the two sides, and the more I accept the little girl in me and treat her like I would a real child, the more I am inclined to take her side and value her. Plus, I feel like I can’t turn the anger inwardly anymore since I told her I would try to keep her safe. So not only is the anger limited by my efforts to keep it away from my little girl, but is simultaneously getting louder and more intense because it knows I am questioning it’s legitimacy. The friction is making me wonder where this anger belongs…it’s making me rethink all the stuff I am used to doing and that alone is scary in and of itself.


-CT
russrussMember
CT,

Please don't hurt yourself. Your references to that really scare me and I hope you don't go down that road. Find a way to direct that anger out.

I can totally relate to the feeling that your anger has no direction, but it sounds like it actually has a very specific direction: your mother. Of course, you need to talk to your T about this.

I don't think anger is pointless at all! I think anger IS the point, making it totally legitimate! I think you might want to read this piece to your T, and again, please don't hurt yourself.

Russ
chronicallytransferredchronicallytransferredMember
quote:

CT,

Please don't hurt yourself. Your references to that really scare me and I hope you don't go down that road. Find a way to direct that anger out.

I can totally relate to the feeling that your anger has no direction, but it sounds like it actually has a very specific direction: your mother. Of course, you need to talk to your T about this.

I don't think anger is pointless at all! I think anger IS the point, making it totally legitimate! I think you might want to read this piece to your T, and again, please don't hurt yourself.

Russ


Hey Russ- I wasn't trying worry you. I actually haven't cut in a while. I still really want to though, so that is why I write about it. It is the only way I know how to express my most extreme feelings of anger. It's not something I consider to be much of an option anymore though- for me, it's the equivalent to an alcoholic who longs for a drink but knows it isn't the real solution.

I do plan on sharing it with my T. I have a call out to her currently to see if I can bump up my appointment this week.

I wanted to share this with you not to freak you out or get sympathy, but so you could see the last paragraph- about the friction of the conflict increasing the overall anger. I thought that might be significant to you and your struggle with unfocused anger.

But yes, I know my mother is on the receiving end of this theoretically, but I don't know how to direct it at her. She's dead, thank God, but it makes everything really elusive and confusing. Plus, I've internalized everything for so long and I don't know how to change it.

Anyway, don't worry about me. I'm as safe as I can be right now.

-CT
russrussMember
quote:
Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
I wanted to share this with you not to freak you out or get sympathy, but so you could see the last paragraph- about the friction of the conflict increasing the overall anger.
-CT


CT,

I can totally relate to this and you're right; that particular conflict between, basically, the part of you that values and loves yourself and your inner critic creates a tremendous amount of friction. No doubt about it. And I think a lot of it goes on below our level of awareness, making it even trickier.

I sure don't know how to deal with this conflict yet, but I'm going bring it up tonight with my T. I'll let you know how that goes.

The more I think about it, the more it seems that anger is at the root of much, if not all, of a lot of our problems.

Russ
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
Russ,
I don't think its anger so much as any of our emotions. Without someone to hear us, understand us and help us understand ourselves we never really learned how to deal with our emotions. Often our caregivers were poorly equipped to deal with their own emotions so how could they possibly deal with ours? And anger tends to be one of the tougher emotions because its so intense and it can take a while to learn to deal with it constructively. And because when we get angry as children we often want to hurt the people we're angry at which means we felt like we were a threat to someone necessary to our survival. You can see where you might want to avoid that. So its not so much the anger, which was a reasonable response, you had a lot to be angry about, as the inablility to express the anger and have it be heard, accepted, understood and channeled in healthy ways.

I know one of the reasons my T keeps encouraging me to get angry at him is that he wants me to learn that anger is no more dangerous or wrong then any other emotion and that a secure relationship is more than capable of tolerating anger. I figure in another millenium or so he'll have me convinced. Big Grin

AG
russrussMember
Thanks AG,

I think I've got some anger today. Anger at my T.

<rant>

I left my session last night and by the time I got home, I had the worst case of hives I've had since I was a kid, and still have them this morning. I get them when I'm stressed, and my T is just pissing me off now. Once again, I left his office feeling like I didn't understand 80% of what he said, and that he didn't answer my questions.

I feel like he's too pedantic, too intellectual and too unfeeling. And the way he dodges my questions just drives my up an f-ing wall. I asked him, for the 10th time last night, what his role is in this relationship, and he just said, "didn't I just show you what my role is?" in reference to some point he'd made. Just answer the f-ing question you jerk!

Then of course, when I asked him how I begin going from knowing about my anger to feeling it, he basically said I'll have to figure that out for myself. Well, if I could do that, I wouldn't be in therapy would I?

The worst part was when he said, "it's like you see me as the guy with the shield, and your hiding behind me as we're being shot at. You've got to get out there on your own sometimes." Dad? Is that you? F you, Mr. Tough Love. I swear I am in the DYI School of Psychotherapy.

I'm having one of those days where I'm convinced that my T sucks and is totally not right for me. I feel unsupported and lost with this guy and I'm really wondering if I should find a T who is more supportive and encouraging. I get jack s*ht from this guy in that department.

Mad Mad Mad
</rant>

Russ
russrussMember
Thanks HB,

I woke up this morning at 4am feeling awful.

Among other things, I began to feel real anger, hurt and fear at my T for what I perceive as a real lack of connection, characterized by him being uncaring, cold, distant and unencouraging to me. These all fit the description of my father to a tee. I just hope that when I tell him all this tonight he can handle it.

I guess you'd call this negative transference, huh?

Thanks again, all.

Russ
russrussMember
Thanks, HB,

It was a strange session and I'm not sure if we connected or not. I don't want to re-hash the whole thing, but one of his main points was that I need to stop viewing him as some all-knowing oracle with all the answers when my own instincts, thoughts and ideas are often clear and articulate...that is until I obliterate them with my retreat into feeling lost, defeated and helpless of course.

Oh, and when I complained about him not being direct when I ask questions, and how he dissects my questions into baffling nuance, he said, "instead of retreating into 'now I'm confused,' how about, 'just answer the f-ing question.'"

Hey, sounds good to me!

In any case, it was another strange night.

Thanks again for all your encouragement.

Russ
russrussMember
quote:
Originally posted by Hummingbird:
It really isn't luck, but perseverance has quite a lot to do with it. Changing our patterns of behaviour and how we think and react is the greatest challenge of your life. It is so hard that most give up because they don't believe it is possible for them.

But inside you there is a beautiful Russ just about busting to get out. He is the one who knows that a belly laugh is the most important thing you can do with your day. He wants more than anything to live wholeheartedly accepting whatever experience comes his way with delight because he is so damn happy just to be alive. He is the one that never forgets for even a second the extraordinary preciousness of life, the gift of friendship, the magnificence of a single moment of connection with another human being. He is the one you do this for.
HB


Thanks so much, HB. You're right of course. There does feel like there's another person inside me trying like all hell to get out, and I'm not speaking metaphorically.

I don't mean to dominate these threads with my frustrated rants. And I know that that's what they are...they're the voice and language of a frustrated person who flailing around desperately for "an answer." I truly appreciate everyone here tolerating me and not telling me to just shut the hell up.

I actually feel better at the moment. The sun is out, the weekend looks good and tomorrow I go for a massage, so it's not all gloom and doom.

Anyway, thanks again, HB. And thanks for everyone else here.

Russ
russrussMember
quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
quote:
Originally posted by Hummingbird:
It really isn't luck, but perseverance has quite a lot to do with it. Changing our patterns of behaviour and how we think and react is the greatest challenge of your life. It is so hard that most give up because they don't believe it is possible for them.

But inside you there is a beautiful Russ just about busting to get out. He is the one who knows that a belly laugh is the most important thing you can do with your day. He wants more than anything to live wholeheartedly accepting whatever experience comes his way with delight because he is so damn happy just to be alive. He is the one that never forgets for even a second the extraordinary preciousness of life, the gift of friendship, the magnificence of a single moment of connection with another human being. He is the one you do this for.
HB


Thanks so much, HB. You're right of course. There does feel like there's another person inside me trying like all hell to get out, and I'm not speaking metaphorically.

I don't mean to dominate these threads with my frustrated rants. And I know that that's what they are...they're the voice and language of a frustrated person who's flailing around desperately for "an answer." I truly appreciate everyone here tolerating me and not telling me to just shut the hell up. I mean, unless you really want to. Smiler

I actually feel better at the moment. The sun is out, the weekend looks good and tomorrow I go for a massage, so it's not all gloom and doom.

Anyway, thanks again, HB. And thanks for everyone else here.

Russ
janejaneMember
Hi Russ
I totally can relate to your being so frustrated and angry. I feel that way alot myself. It's hard when folks ask what is wrong with you and you don't really know. I get that alot. So I say nothing. But that's not really the truth. It feels like everything is wrong. I feel like I just go around begging people to like me or even recognize me, but it seems like they never do. And THAT makes me angry and frustrated and tired of trying. But I can't seem to stop. I don't mean to, I'm just existing. But in that existence is interactions with other people. I try to seem/act "normal" but I'm always afraid they'll see through that and somehow know how desperate I am feeling. Did that make any sense? No probably not. I feel like therapy is pushing me over the edge. I kinda feel like as long as I don't go I can keep it all together, but with therapy, it gets out and I am SO afraid!!!
OMG. How crazy did all that just sound? I assure you that I am a real functioning member of society. LOL!!

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