kmay - (((hugs))) I've been where you are, those feelings that something about me will change T and he will be incapable of not abandoning or otherwise hurting me. And also where the gap between sessions, the attachment, and my aversion to it, made things painfully impossible. I went to two sessions a week. There was even a while where crises had it up to there every once in a while.

Anyway, having the extra session, instead of just the texting and/or phone check-ins/sessions we had been doing, made a big difference for me. Eventually, the need for a third, even in crisis, completely stopped. Or if I asked for an extra, I felt capable of trading my next one for it (I did that this week, actually, so I'm not seeing T tomorrow). The attachment stuff still gets painful and confusing, but it's a lot more manageable. Pretty soon, with a baby on the way, I'll have to take a long break, and drop to one session...maybe permanently. I don't feel ready for that, but I also don't feel terrified he'll go "poof" on me during any of that.

So, I think it's a good idea to at least ask. When I have something like that, which I'm really scared to bring up to my T, I usually start with my fear, what I'm afraid will happen (what he will say, do, think/feel about me, and my reaction to it internally). That usually helps me get to the point of talking about really difficult stuff.

I'm sorry therapy is evoking all this distress for you right now. I'm glad your H is so supportive of what you need. Mine is the same and it makes a huge difference. I couldn't do this work if I didn't know he was solidly in my corner, for better or for worse, with trying to heal.

Hi Kmay, I could have wrote your post. My T. tells me all the time that she needs to be creative/flexible with me because of attachment issues and it being very difficult for me to hold it. We did switch to twice a week and it made a huge difference for me. Plus, I have contact outside of sessions. She changes things as needs flex, or as she sees that I need something different. Sometimes that means more contact and sometimes a little less, or in different ways. With this flexibility and her recognizing that she has to do things differently, I have made really good progress with attachment, trust etc.

I think you should ask or at least discuss and tell her that you need more or different support.

*****TRIGGER SI MENTIONED*****

Yaku, Rebuilding Me,

Thank you so much for your feedback and support. It feels so good to know I'm not alone in this and that you guys have been exactly where I am at. It normalizes it for me.
This is really hard, it's actually causing me to SI sometimes. Not her, but just the attachment issues.

YAKU - If you don't mind my asking, what do you and T consider crisis? And does she make room for you immediatley when there is a crisis? I get so...I don't even know the word...that I start to SI and I can't control it. Maybe if I knew she would get me in asap, it would prevent me from doing that?

REBUILDING ME - I you don't mind my asking you as well, how is T flexible/creative with you? I totally understand if you don't want to answer. I'm just interested b/c I know I need to learn to ask for what I need, and that sounds like something I may need. If it's possible, it will help me, but if not, it is what it is. So I was just wondering what that looked like.

Thanks again,

***TRIGGERS - SU/SI STUFF***

Hrm...crisis is kind of a subjective term even in our work. I haven't SI'ed in a couple of years in this point, and it actually only ever started as part of dealing with attachment dilemmas in therapy. Before that, I just dissociated period.

Since then, and now too, because of the massive dissociation, when I'm in a lot of distress (from life today or triggers of past stuff, especially shame-based triggers), I "hear" a lot of SU in my head. It feels intrusive and oppressive and even if I now know confidently I won't ever do that to my family, it can exhausting kind of just fending that (and accompanying SI urges/images) off. Those were the kind of things I used to go in for a lot, but I have been able to just deal with that via texting lately.

This week, it was simply just that dealing with memories and feelings triggered by having to do extra medical appointments had me in an uncontrollable grief-rage. Like, two days in the last week, I was in my bed sobbing uncontrollably for over an hour straight, punctuated by mini-screams filled with rage about being helpless, etc. I am so used to dissociating that when I feel stuff, it can be really overwhelming to finally let myself feel things. So, I will try to regulate and get to OK on my own, but very rarely, when I cannot wait through it, or think my function would be several times improved by working through something, I will ask T if I can come in early.

Tuesday was shorter than our usual sessions, due to his availability. All I really needed was to be there and feel connected, because the previous night's session, I was so distressed/distraught by the memories that I completely dissociated, felt like he was a million miles away, could never understand me or have anything to do with me, and ultimately barely remembered leaving. :/ So, I went in for less than an hour, just accepted his presence and talked a little bit about how hard things have been (I usually only shrug or say it doesn't matter, so admitting that it IS hard is big for me), felt really reconnected and safe, and went home and have been mostly fine since.

Sometimes T can get me in and sometimes he can't. What helps me is that I can tell from how he responds that if he possibly can, for any amount of time that works for me, he will do it, even go out of his way to do so. For example, I offered to trade Friday's session for Tuesday after it helped me so much. T said if he had no other clients Friday, he would check with me and see if it's still OK to skip...BUT, if I was in distress and needed him, he would come, even just for me. What that means is him driving three hours round trip (he lives far from both of his offices) and spending a double session with me for his regular one-hour rate, with no other clients or money coming in. It's actually more triggering if he does such a thing than anything, lol, but the point is, I have confidence that he's dedicated to me and my well-being.

Tuesday, as soon as he offered to meet with me, it reduced my distress by about 50%...or more like I was able to put it aside until I got to his office, because I knew that both he and I had made "space" for it there. Being as the number one thing I was feeling was completely alone and unprotected from what had happened, just him showing I wasn't alone made a huge difference.

But...sometimes he just has no space and surprisingly that's really OK too. I think just the asking for the extra session sometimes calms me down, because it is validating freaked out parts that it's OK to need help and rely on others, specifically my T. As opposed to my usual tendency to shut down and denigrate those needs in an attempt to get them to disappear. And (mostly) having enough trust that T will always want to help me if he can and thinks what he provides WILL actually help makes the difference.

Anyway, I'm sorry, that was long. I don't know if it helps clarify or not, lol...

Yaku,

Just wanted to give a quick thanks. I have read your response and will reply when I have more time. Putting the little's to bed

Hi. I just want to say i see my T twice a week, and it's great, although now im freaking out about not texting with in between sessions like i used to. Im afraid attachment gets so strong, it always wants more. Dont want to scare u away though, i encourage u to ask your T for that secon session a week. I will see hoe that makes u feel and hopefully its for the best. Cheers, take care.

Hi Kmay,

I’ve only been on the boards a few months, so nice to meet you.

I can’t speak for others, but I think 2x/week sessions have helped my attachment issues. I started off by seeing him weekly. Finances got tight and I went to every other week. But he said he felt we were so disconnected with every other week, he offered to see me weekly and accommodated our financial situation, which was super generous of him. Nine months into therapy, one day I just felt myself oscillating between panic and numbness. I went 5 days without sleeping or eating, which never happened before. My husband was out of the country and I was left at home to hold down the fort with all the kiddos. I didn’t know what was happening, so I finally decided to text my T (who was out of town) and he called me back right away. As soon as I described what was happening, he said, “Welcome to crisis.”

Once I went into “crisis” mode, I would come unglued a day after a session. For a day, I would feel safe and cared for, and then the next day I would feel raw, vulnerable, like my T hates me, I’ll contaminate him, he’ll abandon me. Three days after session, I’d start entertaining thoughts of terminating with him. So I asked him if we could do two sessions a week. He made it clear to me that each session needed to be intentional and we weren’t going to just meet because we “enjoyed each other’s company.” He explained attachment and agreed the second weekly session. He said he prefers text and email to be about scheduling because he did not want to engage in e-therapy, but he offered it nonetheless if I needed it to feel connected. A few months after starting 2x/week sessions, the attachment got worse and to the point where I could barely breathe without him. It was extremely embarrassing and emotionally exhausting. We went to 3x/week for a month until I felt secure enough to go back to 2x/week. During that time, I emailed him novels every single day and, bless his heart, he replied to every email, even when he was out of town and weekends. His response was only a few sentences, but I appreciated it and it helped me feel connected.

I’m back to 2x/week now which feels like it’s enough to get by. Some weeks I wish I could see him 3x, but I will email if I feel disconnected in between sessions. I don’t email him novels every night and I no longer feel like I’ll die without him, so I guess that’s progress? It’s still hard most days, but I no longer think he hates me.

I had a back-up T over the summer and I saw her twice a week, too. My T tells me when I can't function in daily life then it’s usually a sign I need more support. Back-up T said I feel inherently bad because I still feel like CSA was my fault and I’m still sitting in the shame of it. After working through feeling bad and “contagious” and the underlying reasons for it, it helped me understand the shame better. I still feel the shame, but knowing why has somehow made me feel less dirty. I don’t feel like my T hates me and I can accept his care a little more with each session.

This work is so exhausting, but thanks to this forum I’m hanging in there. I hope your conversation with your T about going twice a week goes well.


PassionFruit

Hi Yaku,

So sorry it took me so long to get back here. I really appreciate your response. I am so sorry to hear about the distress the medical appointments have caused.

quote:

I am so used to dissociating that when I feel stuff, it can be really overwhelming to finally let myself feel things.

-Yup...this is exactly how it is for me. I literally feel like my emotions will kill me. But that's where my substance abuse problem and self harm problem (vs. dissociating) comes into play. I go from zero to a thousand and I am left with only two choices in my head...I either use, self harm, or I die. That's it. Nothing else. All because I cannot STAND the way I feel.

So being that is the place that I am at right now, I am thinking that probably constitutes crisis for me. I just still feel like it's not a reason to ask for another session b/c I should be able to control myself.

However, the bigger problem (as if that's not big enough right? ) is the attachment...I can't even stay intact with the once a week visits to keep from getting to the point where I feel like I need to use, or I will die state. So I'm thinking two sessions a week will be good, but then the attachment scares the hell outta me. I feel like I'm rambling and not making any sense.

I wanted to let you know your response did help me. So thank you!

LilTeaBag,

Thank you for your response. Yes, I am worried it may make the whole attachment/detachment thing even worse, but I guess I won't know till I try huh? I'm too exhausted to fight it anymore anyways. Thanks again!

Ahhh PassionFruit,

Your post was so helpful to read! Thank you. I want to respond to you when I have a little more time but wanted to let you know I read it and it really resonates with me.

You made total sense to me Kmay, i unterstood and felt every word of it.

For me I could unravel within minutes of leaving T. We used to have once a week but then it went to twice a week. Then during crisis times 3 x week. Then back to 2 x week but it always felt that we could never work on big issues as it would take the entire first session to reconnect and then if we did anything traumatic in the 2nd session, I would be left for 5 days with no help. We plan each month ahead whether it is 2x or 3x and what we will work on. if it is 3x - then we plan to work on big issues while i have extra support.

From what you have written, I really think 2 x a week would help you right now. It can make things feel worse for a while (or not) - but you have to try it to see if it works.

SD

Hi Kmay, T. has been flexible in texting and phone contact. Texting can be for crisis or needing to connect. For months and months, T contacted me daily via text. This is no longer needed now. I have access via email or text or phone. All within reason of course to when she can respond. We had to work on figuring out sessions and how they best worked for me. Most helpful was simply T's reassurance that we would figure it out and that she was going to keep trying, not giving up and she knew she'd have to be creative since my attachment issues were huge.

Hi PassionFruit,
Nice to meet you too
I love that your T worked with you despite your financial situation. That shows he truly has a heart for helping people.

quote:

For a day, I would feel safe and cared for, and then the next day I would feel raw, vulnerable, like my T hates me, I’ll contaminate him, he’ll abandon me. Three days after session, I’d start entertaining thoughts of terminating with him.

This is exactly what happens to me. Exactly. I'm having a hard time understanding how increasing sessions per week helps with attachment. Obviously it worked for you. My T would definately let me email...did you just email everything you needed to get out? Whatever came to mind? Or things you felt you couldn't talk to him about? I think this is a great idea and could be helpful to me.

I definatley think that back to 2x's a week is progress, even if you just feeling like you can get by...that's better than feeling like you will die, right? lol. I do often feel like I will die without my T. I constantly fear that something will happen to her if she doesn't leave me first.

Thank you so much for your post. It does give me some hope that it won't always be like this.

I did have a conversation with my T about everything today and I will update on this thread as well.

hi kmay,

The time T worked with my financial situation was the same time he lost half his clients. That was one of the times I realized just how committed he was to helping me.

quote:

Originally posted by kmay:
My T would definitely let me email...did you just email everything you needed to get out? Whatever came to mind? Or things you felt you couldn't talk to him about? I think this is a great idea and could be helpful to me.

I emailed him everything on my mind and everything I wanted to say. In session, I could only probably talk about 10% of what was on my mind or what I was feeling. It gave me a way to communicate what I couldn't say in sessions. In the beginning he didn't respond, but when I let him know I felt too vulnerable without a responses, he would reply with one or two sentences. The nice thing is he never brought up emails unless I wanted to talk about it. I started bringing in my emails and letting him read it in front of me. That was really helpful so that I could have real-time responses, instead of waiting for an email.

Glad you were able to have a conversation with your T! Keep us posted.



PF

SD -

Thank you so much for your response.

quote:

For me I could unravel within minutes of leaving T. if we did anything traumatic in the 2nd session, I would be left for 5 days with no help.

This is all true for me too. Especially the part about unraveling in minutes after leaving. That is the part that sends me into the mode of "I am getting too attached. If I wasn't so attached, then I wouldn't feel like this when I left." and blah blah.

The trauma processing also really resonates with me. It is so hard to be so raw and then try to manage for days in between sessions. I don't have the coping mechanisms for that...which is why I guess more sessions (like you guys did) is a good way to manage it.

I am going to post an update about our session below. Thanks again SD for your input. I really appreciate it. (((hugs))) to you.



Rebuilding Me -
Thank you for the clarification. My T did offer to text me daily and I'll post an update below about that. I am glad to hear it worked for you and you were eventually able to wean down from it b/c It scares me a little.

UPDATE

Thank you all so much for your input and support in this. It seems so silly for it to be so incredibly difficult to just ask for a second session, or even know if that is the right thing to ask for...but knowing that you all understand is really special to me.

I met with T on Friday. I went in having no idea really, how I was going to ask for a second session or if I even wanted to or needed to. My H had a little conversation with me about it before I went in about how I could bring it up but yeah...that went out the door lol. So, when it came up, T asked me what I needed in order to feel secure, safe, sure she was not going anywhere. I told her I don't know. I just don't know. She asked me if the texting helps. Like when she checks on me or sends helpful, inspirational text or emails. I said 505 of the time it helps so much. It makes me feel connected, reminds me she is there, makes me feel safe and secure. Then 50% of the time is scares the living s*** outta me b/c it makes me feel like I am waaaaay to attached. B/c eventually one day, the texting daily will need to go away right? Well what if I can't manage without that b/c I am so attached? So why use it in a good way now if it will only hurt me in the end, right? (I don't know if that makes sense). I just repeated to her that I just don't know what I need. We had a short conversation about my fear of the attachment. Of course, the fact that my old T of 10 years totally broke my trust and left me feeling so abandoned plays a huge role in it and T knows that. I felt I knew with all my heart and soul that nothing bad would ever happen with old T. That she would be in my life forever, like she told me. Her and my husband were the only 2 people in the world that I completely trusted. So of course I transfer that to T. She gets that. We are working on it. My mindset is...don't get too attached. B/c she could definately leave at anytime, or she could get hit by a truck, or have a tragedy in her life and need to take time off...ect. So don't get attached b/c then you will be lost without her. She gets all of that.

So next, she suggested checking in daily as part of staying connected would be good, but she wanted to know if I wanted to text her in the morning or if she should text me. I told her that I am so afraid that if I text her, and she doesn't respond b/c she is busy or sees the text and forgets to respond, that within hours I will go into a complete panic, meltdown mode. That for some reason, it's easier for her to text me (even if she gets busy in the morning and her text comes in later) b/c it doesn't feel like such a rejection if she texts me later than usual vs. if I text her and she doesn't respond for some reason. Sooo...on that matter we agreed she would text me each morning to check in.

Next, we talked about crisis. The self harm issues I have, the panic attacks, the urge to abuse substances. She said for me to just call her right away when any of that comes up. That felt really good for her to say that. To know that we are in crisis mode (thank you SD and Rebuilding Me for helping me understand that).

So then....SHE actually brings up that she can see people on Mondays (when we have session now) and Friday afternoons. Those are her only times b/c she also works another job full time. She asked if I would be able to see her on Friday so I assumed she was suggesting two times a week (or maybe I was just hoping). Problem with Friday afternoons is my daughter has dance and my son has swim class, so from 2pm to 5pm I am all booked up. So then she offered to maybe do a Friday evening, but it felt very intrusive for me (even thought she suggested it, I think b/c she said "maybe") to be seeing her beyond her "normal hours" on a Friday night when she probably just wants to go home with her family. I just sort of listened and then I froze and didn't really know how to respond So we sort of ended that part of it with her saying that we will see how I do after Monday's appointment and then feel it out for Friday...

I did ask her through text actually, today, if I could email her some things that are easier for me to write than talk about. I am thinking to ask her for exactly what I think I need through email.

At the end of the session, she gave me an analogy to look at the situation with. She explained to me that I need to look at it like this: Right now, I am in "the ICU". I need a lot of people around me, caring for me, supporting me, in contact with me, helping me to stay healthy, ect. But eventually I will "move out of ICU to a lesser care unit" and still need some care, some support, some guidance but not as much, not as intense. And then eventually I will "Come home, out of the hospital" and be able to care for myself slowly, but surely. Still with support but with my own strength as well.

I liked that analogy. I am dissapointed in myself that I could not ask for what I needed, but I can try through email now.

I really appreciate all your input and feedback friend.

Kmay,

I am so glad your T was so understanding, validating and responsive to your needs. I hope it will help you build healthy attachment and bring you some emotional comfort.

Hi Kmay,
It sounds like your therapist can read you and is also very committed to you and willing to support through the roughest times. That must be a balm to the heart. Reading what she was saying about the ICU actually soothed me, i hope im not experiencing transference with your therapist lol

Lately, since i kind of came out of a very numb phase, ive started to be able to express my feelings more, but it's definitely easier for me in the form of writing. I've textes T, i've written in my ipad and showed it to her, agter which she asked me to email it to her. and just yesterday for the first time, i wrote a paper letter but that was because i wanted to tell her i fell hurt and i needed to address that in order to maintain a healthy therapeutic relationship. So i encourage you to write, in any of these formats, and you will see how it works for you and your T.

Hope you will gather strength and courage to tell her what you long for, she seens open to listen.

Thank you LilTeaBag And GG

I am glad the ICU analogy soothed you LilTeaBag...it did me too actually. I am working on the emailing. It is good for me. Just have to find the time...after my kids go to bed if I have any energy left! lol