AG:
thanks again. i think i'll fire him and hire you. LOL. i was wondering if you were a mental health care provider, but i read some posts from the past where someone else asked and you said you weren't. but seriously, if you enjoy it, you're an excellent communicator(at least for helping OTHERS).

oh yeah, and if i did tell him that stuff, i don't think he'd say what i wanted to hear. he might say " why do you think i don't want you to come in so often?" or "and how does that make you feel?"...........

I know, I once called my T on that. He answered a question I asked with another question and I told him "Just like a therapist, answer a question with a question." He gave me a wry grin, and waited for my answer. They really can drive you bonkers sometimes. It helps to imagine throwing things at them when you feel like that.

And thank you for the compliments.

AG

quote:

Hi Samy,
I imagine that can't be easy and maybe even exhausting. Do you find it that way? (to stay inside sometimes)
JM

i duno about exhaustin, but borin. i mean, i wana just be able to come out or not when i like ya know? an i can't. we not told them abut the insiders cuz i gues it would hurt our chances to get work or somthin. i supose it freaky for some peopl.
samy

Yea, I guess some people are uncomfortable with what they don't understand.

I wondered if it was exhausting only because when I am feeling my deeper emotions from my childhood I get really tired. I realize that it is not the same, so I wondered if it gets tiring for you too. But I appreciate the boring part. 14 year olds get bored easy. (Did I get the age right?)

quote:

Most people I know in therapy go a minimum of once a week and its not unusual to do twice a week when doing really hard work.

AG:
THEN WHY DOES HE MAKE ME FEEL LIKE A FREAK FOR WANTING TO TALK TO HIM MORE OFTEN THAN EVERY 3RD WEEK OR MONTHLY?EVERYTHING I'VE READ SAYS MOST CLIENTS GO WEEKLY, BUT I DON'T THINK HE HE HAS ANY IDEA ABOUT THAT.(haha)HE ALSO SAID HE FEELS I'M OBSESSIVE ABOUT "IT"(THERAPY, PSYCHOLOGY,?????I DON'T KNOW WHAT...HE KNOWS I WANT TO LOOK INTO PSYCHOLOGY---I'M CURRENTLY IN THE MEDICAL FIELD). ANYWAY, I FEEL LIKE HE'S JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT ME---AND DOESN'T WANT TO!!!!

SORRY FOR THE DRAMA...

Hi AJB, I want to welcome you (somewhat delayed) to the forum. I hope it's okay to jump here. I was curious what type of therapy your therapist would say he practices? And, how much experience does he have? That sounds quite odd that he would say you're "obessessive" about it.

Shrinklady

hi shrinklady. thanks for the welcome. i guess he's a behavioral counselor(because of the clinic name), and he comes very highly regarded:speaker, teacher, therapist...with more than 20 years experience. i'm sure it's just me interpreting things wrong. i'm also sure he wouldn't approve of me chatting on here--just shows how obsessive i am about the therapy, i guess. anyway, i know it will all work out. our last session was very productive, but then i focus-and can't seem to get past-the last few sentences(try and tough it out...but you do have my #'s...).maybe it's just some sort of block for me or something.i'll be fine. thanks again for your interest!

I wondered if it was exhausting only because when I am feeling my deeper emotions from my childhood I get really tired. I realize that it is not the same, so I wondered if it gets tiring for you too. But I appreciate the boring part. 14 year olds get bored easy. (Did I get the age right?)

Yep, i'm 14 stil not alowed to drive! (haha) but i gues its hard to be 'inside' lots and even if i listenin to the clas and have opinions it's not lik i'm alowed to say them.
samy

p.s. also this is a horible month for us!

Why is this such a horrible month Samy?

AJB, that’s not drama! A therapist calling a client obsessive for wanting weekly appointments seems unresponsive and would distress any of us. I hear you say that he has been highly recommended, but how does all of this make YOU feel? What do you trust? I know that’s a silly question to ask a client, because we all have trust issues and often don’t trust ourselves. But you have to be your own advocate in health care and mental health is no exception. Do you feel that you are getting YOUR needs met? Are you feeling understood and accepted for whatever you bring into the arena?

Yes, sometimes we personalize and project things even with our T, but the fact is you need to be able to feel and speak freely w/o being made to feel that something is wrong with that whether by word or look. My T always says you can’t rationalize feelings, you can’t judge them, and you can’t discount them; feelings are feelings and especially in therapy they need to be heard. You deserve to be heard.

AJB,
I don't have much to add to what everyone else has said to you except that I agree. It sounded like a really weird thing for a T to say. And you do deserve to be heard! (Go JM!)

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond; life got interrupted by a sinus infection.

AG

[quote]Why is this such a horrible month Samy?[/quote

it too long an answer actuali and yuo probabli dont wana kno. i just say i have bad memories abut halowe'en.
samy

Last week I received the news that I don't get to see Dr. X again until the middle of next year. I'm supposed to be happy because this means I'm done, that I am clean, that my medication is correct, etc. I am happy about all of that but of course I am bummed that he is essentially out of my life now.

I'm trying not to think about him as much and when I do I keep telling myself that he and the kindness and the understanding that I received from him are always in my heart and always with me and that I will use it to continue to find things out about myself.

My T changes the subject when I bring him up.

Sprinting Gal,
I'm sorry that must be really difficult. And it's ok to be happy about your health but really sad about not seeing someone so important to you. Please feel free to come here and talk about your feelings. We can at least understand how you're feeling.

As far as your T changing the subject, that doesn't sound right to me. You should be able to discuss ANYTHING you need to during your sessions. I know it might feel scary, but maybe you could ask your T directly if he is changing the subject deliberately or is that just your perception? And that you feel like you need to talk about it.

And you're right, just because you're not seeing him doesn't mean the connection is gone and you don't have with you the things he did for you.

AG

Hello Everyone,
I think I posted that I was back from the hospital on the wrong forum Friday, but anyway it is good to be here again among friends...My tests went well, 4 long days!!!..still have a few problems yet, but nothing life threating!!! Yeah!!! ...but I was so excited to be back at my session today with my T...2 weeks seemed like forever...well when I got there I was less than enthused He seemed to e shying away from me...I hadn't seen him since we discussed my feelings...well he usually sets on one end of the couch and me on the other, but today he was sitting down on the couch, when I sat down he moved to his chair..I know he is just being safe with boundries, but it really threw me. I couldn't think of anything to say...I had so much to talk about before i got there...He never mentioned the transference the whole time...he did ask me what I wanted to get out of therapy...He seemed distant or I was just parinoid one...I wanted to tell him many things, but i was scared to open up...is this normal??..shrinklady...have I screwed up??..I'm really distressed tonight...I have to do a 7 day self monitoring study..write down all my emotions every half an hour ad what i was doing/thinking about and how I resolved it...I was so upset when i left...and don't really know why...he was very nice...but I was going to pieces inside...went straight to Mcdonalds and got a large milkshake for the ride home...maybe next week will be different or at least better...has to be...how can I keep my sanity when I feel the least bit of rejection and it sends me to the downunder??..
SprintingGal...I hate the news for you...I would probably die...but if you are better and meds are right...it is time to move on and remember the good things...don't know that i could...but we all have to face that day i guess...I'll be thinking of you...GOOD LUCK...and hang in and don't forget to still hang uot with us...Charlotte

Thanks everyone...I was upset the way I got this news. In the mail. He calls me when the news is bad but in this case, when it was good, he sent it in the mail and I had to wait for an entire week to find out what happened. After everything, it would have meant a lot to me to share the good news in real time.

Sometimes I feel like if I stop thinking about everything that happened (and of course he is enmeshed in all of that) that it is going to come back and get me when I least expect it, that if I anticipate the bad it will keep it at bay. I went to him feeling fantastic with nary a transferential feeling in sight or any outward physical indication that I had cancer. I never imagined that all of this was right around the corner. So now I am afraid to get comfortable again. Anyway, I am going OT here.

As far as my T goes, she tells me to get a hobby or to write romance novels about him. Seriously! Nothing like, "why don't we examine your relationship with your dad." We have a little to the extent that I have talked about specific abusive episodes with him. But my internal rap on it has always been "how can I miss what I never had?" Clearly I miss it. I am going to just put it out there again and see what happens. Maybe her changing the subject is just my imagination. I know I am tentative about broaching the subject because I am embarrassed. I do feel guilty and silly and I know he has not always done right by me. She has told me he is not safe and I feel foolish bringing him up again and again, like I am not listening to her.

SprintingGal

Hi SprintingGal...I'm sorry for your suffering over Dr. X. Losing someone important from our lives causes us to mourn the loss and that would be normal. I think you are grieving the loss of Dr. X who meant so much to you. And I do think loss is an appropriate subject to discuss in therapy. Perhaps you can frame it as a loss to your T so she will discuss it with you in those terms. Perhaps she is uncomfortabel with the subject but you should be able to talk about anything you want in therapy and feel safe doing so. As for her suggestion to write a romance...it could help in the way journaling helps when you need to process something. I write a lot myself and it seems to help when I'm overwhelmed with feelings. I think I would confront her with the feeling you get that she changes subjects on you. I have accused my T of doing this and he has admitted it and explained why and it helped me to know this and it opened a new discussion for us.

Good luck.

TN

Hi Charlotte, you can post anywhere you’d like in any topic that you feel fits. It’s all the same forum, just different threads of topics. It was nice to hear from you no matter where you posted.

With the several mentionings on forum about this sort of negative reaction to transference it really seems to be a bigger problem than I ever thought. I am not getting these therapists who are shying away from the whole transference experience when most should at the very least be aware that this is a good indication that their client is primed to work through their issues. And for those who are willing to surrender themselves to it can mean so much and most T’s would welcome such an opportunity for such access to their client because it is such a great pathway into being able to help them heal.

And SprintingGal, "Get a hobby or write romance novels about him??" C’mon! Actually the writing of romance novels may not be so bad if it were to work through the feelings beneath the surface like “journaling” helps to do, but I am inclined to believe it may only fuel the fantasies if not given proper expression and direction.

I am sorry if I am reacting too strongly, but I am truly astonished and my heart goes out to all of you. I hope that you can somehow get your T to see this for what it really is and continue to express your needs. Don’t let them sweep them under the rug or shy away from them, that is probably the same offense that happened in your childhood. "HELLO-Why I am here?"
Keep up the dialogue and let them squirm!

Shrinklady, (I know you must be extremely busy) but what do you make of this?? I for one am fumed at the feelings of rejection and confusion this leaves in the clients who are trying to work with it and understand it.

JM

SprintingGal,

quote:

But my internal rap on it has always been "how can I miss what I never had?" Clearly I miss it.

Of course you do. You miss it because we were designed to need a secure attachment base from which we can experience the world, and move, and grow and learn, and flourish. Without it we develop “insecure attachments” and from there our whole being is out of kilter.

Good for you for being so brave and “putting it out there again.” I hope you don’t become disillusioned by her reaction. The fact that you are so brave and determined speaks well of your ability to heal when given the opportunity to develop a secure base with your T.

I'm impressed!
JM

I agree with JM, there is NO subject your therapist should shy away from; the whole point of therapy is to be able to express all of your feelings and have them accepted which is so different than what happened to most of us growing up.

I do fear that there are a lot more therapists who can't handle transference than should possibly be practicing. I've heard some real horror stories from other people in therapy. And I know my T has commented a number of times about how bad it is when a T can't carry through and once again the client is left hanging. When I talked to him about googling him he actually told me about a T that told his client he had to end therapy with her because he was moving away even though he wasn't. I'm very grateful that my T can handle this as well as he does.

I think both of you (Sprinting Gal and Charlotte) need to talk directly to your therapists about how you feel about there being taboo subjects in therapy. If there's a subject they feel uncomfortable hearing about from you, that's THEIR problem and responsibility, not YOURS. Yes, clear boundaries are necessary, but so is being emotionally available to you. Moving away from you in session from where he used to sit is conveying the opposite message.

AG

In reflecting back to when I first admitted to my T that I was “suffering” from transference (because that is what it feels like) her initial response, because I was squirming and fidgeting and beating around the bush for at least 35 minutes before I spit it out, was something like, “Oh THAT’s all” and a laughter of relief that I hadn’t told her that I was dying or something like that. (All though I wished I could at that moment.) Our next several sessions were not comfortable for me and I don’t think that there was anything she could have said or done to put me at ease any more than she tried. I just had to wait it out and experience her willingness to “still be there” and not abandon me or reject me for the raw feelings I exposed. It was not an easy part of the transition, but eventually it did level off and I found that her understanding of transference is just what it should be and in time I realized that I needed to stop resisting it and work with it. The more I worked with it the more I could understand its meaning, its depth, width, and breadth. But at first, I did project my own discomforts with transference onto my T, sometimes thinking that she was uncomfortable with it herself. Now I know she is not and I don’t feel like I “suffer” as much as I used to.

So I hope that all of you, Charlotte, SprintingGal, AJB and anyone else that is experiencing this frustration will be able to work it out too. I think all of you deserve a medal for your valiant efforts to work this out despite its frustrations.

Best Regards,
JM

Hello SprintingGal, ABJ and Charlotte, I want to echo Just Me's comments about challenging your T's responses. An old friend of mine once told me she took her therapy skills to a completely different level because she had had an experienced client who called her on stuff all the time. She is forever grateful for that client she says because she's so much more attuned to her clients today.

What's important of course, is that my friend rose to the challenge...not putting it back on the client.

The kind of responses by your T's don't surprise me. It seems in all your situations, there's an elephant sitting in the room and you are the only one willing to bring it up.

Too many therapists sit safely back with their manualized therapies too afraid to get into the more intense emotional work. They are fine if the client is emotional but oh my goodness, they don't like it when they are being called into working it through or expressing it themselves. (I find it hard myself but I also know it's part of my job.)

That's the sense I got. Your therapists are uncomfortable and are thinking they are not being seen as they try to avoid the obvious.

I'm not blaming them. The profession should be more accountable. Therapy needs to be more collaborative. There are some leaders in the field who are trying by the way...getting therapists to ask for direct feedback after each session. Therapists are encouraged by the way, to get consultation when they are unsure how to proceed with a client. It's a question you can ask.

And, I'll grant you, bringing up relational stuff isn't easy being a client myself. In fact, I was telling my T about your posts and on her suggestion we started talking about our relationship...wouldn't you know it, I got triggered and my mind went swirling...

Maybe with baby steps you can eventually get your therapist on board. Remember, you are the consumer. You're paying for therapy and can bring up what you want. If you have a good connection with your T, it would be worth it to do so...to speak what is there, but not spoken. It's a powerful way to learn.

I'm sure there's lots more to be said on the subject. Take care,

Shrinklady

Shrinklady,
Thanks for talking about what happened in your therapy, your being open about how it feels from both sides of the couch is really affirming.

One of the things I have really appreciated about my T in dealing with the transference is how open he has been to talking about our relationship (from every possible aspect). Most of our sessions start in talking about us and end up with me talking about my past. He is my emotional road map. The feelings and issues that come up with him, are exactly the very issues that I need to process.

He has an incredible ability to stay very calm, non-defensive and open no matter what I'm talking to him about. I remember once, early on in our work, his telling me that ALL of my emotions were welcome in his office, that nothing was out of bounds or too scary to discuss. Because SO much could not be spoken about in my family of origin, this was incredibly powerful. And his continuing to be present and stay with me, no matter what, is the thing that is so powerfully healing about the relationship.

I once thanked him for the fact that he welcomed all my feelings and never once had he denigrated me for having any of them. His response? "That's all you ever needed." Priceless.

AG

When does transference become obsession??

The reason I ask is because I have too much time on my hands today and I am once again surfing the web on transference. I haven’t done that since I found this site and all I needed to know right here. Now I wish I hadn’t because there is so much crap out there. Anyway, I see that some Psychologists have written pages that give a negative slant to transference or the potential of it becoming obsessive. One quote that I absolutely hate from a Psychologist is, “I avoid clients who are just oozing with transference.” That’s probably better for the client anyway, don’t ya think?

I struggle with feeling obsessive at times, but am I? I want to feel FREE to continue to express myself-no holds barred, but sometimes it is a bit frightening to worry if it is ever crossing the line. (Gee I wonder if anyone else feels that way-LOL) Many clients admit that we think of our T’s all the time, fantasize about them, call them between sessions, discuss them and our sessions on forum, Google them, and some have even driven by their homes for curiosity sake. When does it become too much? Obviously stalking is wrong and indicates some sort of “threatening situation,” so that is not what I am talking about.

Sometimes transference can FEEL obsessive-especially when your T has been out of town for 2 weeks…(In the words of Charlie Brown, “UGH!”)

Anyway, just wondering how anyone else feels about this?

JM

JM,

I do the same thing- google transference, look for books about it, etc. When I first finally had a name for this little issue, I did it a lot but now I only do it every couple of weeks now. Yesterday was one of those days. My T hates it that I do this.

Ha! "I avoid clients oozing with transference potential." I know exactly where you read that and yes, I had very much the same reaction. I thought, gee buddy, it sounds like you need some additional training!

As far as it getting obsessive, there obviously is a line but I don't think anyone here has crossed it. I think having our transference object embedded in our brains and on our minds a lot is part of it. Wanting to see where your T lives and only going by once is not obsessive, just curiosity. I think it only becomes obsessive when it becomes harmful, when it takes over your life, interferes with daily functioning, etc.

Hi JM,
Sit down, relax, have a cup of tea, I feel a long post coming on.

I think the negative view of transference dates back to before Attachment theory really started to catch on. I think that Attachment theory gave therapists the ability to really understand what was going on when a patient developed these feelings. So instead of seeing it as resistance, which is more common to a psychoanalytic view, more recently I think it is seen as the powerful tool it can be in the hands of a skilled therapist.

quote:

One quote that I absolutely hate from a Psychologist is, “I avoid clients who are just oozing with transference.” That’s probably better for the client anyway, don’t ya think?d

I'm placing bets that the psychologist quoted above doesn't have to run into the problem very often. Who could get close enough to form deep feelings for someone who talks that way about clients. It's so deeply disrepectful.

OK, now onto obsession. I have a number of comments (shocked, aren't you?).

1) Attachment issues come with a great deal of primitive, visceral emotions. When we're children staying with our attachment figure is literally a matter of life and death. We're biologically hard-wired to pursue the relationship at all costs. So as an adult trying to form a secure attachment, very primitive intense emotions are evoked. If we feel our relationship with our therapist is threatened, it can literally feel like our life is threatened. Hence the incredible intensity we have about the relationship and why it looms so important. Would you call a one year old who doesn't want to be separated from his mother obsessive?

2. I totally understand you worrying about it, I know I have. Sometimes it feels like I think about nothing else. If I admitted to all my behaviors (come to think of it I've fessed up about most of them here) it can look pretty crazy. One of the reasons I decided to talk to my T about finding his Grandaughter's blog was that when I found it, I really felt like I was crossing a line reading it, but I couldn't stop myself. I read every single entry, nine months worth, the whole time thinking this is really, really wrong. I can remember being worried I was going to cross the line into stalking and my T would have to send me away. So I decided to talk to him about it. One of the most surprising things he said to me as we discussed it was "How can I not understand you wanting to know more about my life? I really understand people who drive by my home or call my home number." Honestly, his reaction was pretty much "and you're getting upset about a little googling?"

3 So I think the real line that divides the intensity of therapy from a full blown obession is two fold. First, do you talk to your therapist about the behaviors? I haven't told my T everything I've done, but he's knows I've googled him, I told him that I think about him all the time, that it's difficult to make it between sessions because I miss him so much, I want to belong to him in some way, daughter, grandaughter, niece, I'll take anything just to be part of his life. That I really hate his family sometimes because they get to know him in a way I never will. That I am angry that he knows exactly what I want from him (which is a real neat trick because I can't really pin it down) and even why its so important but he still says no. I've actually started crying while shaking his hand at the end of a session and told him it was really hard to leave him. (Now, don't the rest of you feel better about what you've been doing? ) I think that as long as you're talking about the feelings then they're part of therapy and not just a fixation. Which leads to what I think is the most important criteria.

4. Are you still doing therapy? I've known woman dealing with transference issues who have totally focused on the relationship to the exclusion of therapy. Their goal is to move the relationship beyond a theraputic one. They basically go to therapy JUST so they can spend time with their T. (Don't get me wrong, I think one of the positive effects of feeling this way is that it gives you a reason to want to go. Therapy can be painful, difficult and confusing at times; you have to face down your worst fears and sometimes all of that can make you run away. Having these kinds of feelings for your T can pull you towards the therapy. I may not like what I have to do but at least I adore the person I have to do it with.) The therapy has ceased because they're so focused on how their therapist feels about them, and what will it take to get him/her to admit their feelings. If you are respecting the boundaries ( a good example, you have not flown off to wherever your T is ) no matter how frustrating and continuing to work in therapy to get better than I don't think it's an obsession.

From what I can tell, the people who are posting on this forum struggling with these feelings are all actively pursuing their therapy, not their therapists.

Really fantastic question. (Of course, you're probably sorry you've asked it after having to wade through this post!)

As crazy as this can feel, which is pretty crazy, I really think we're fundamentally ok.
Just tightening some screws and cracking some nuts.

AG

Transference can be really scary when you don't know what it is. I have experienced it with many different people in my life but since I am an emotionally restricted person I have always held it in and suffered in silence. I guess I just couldn't let common sense get the best of me. I would always turn the tables on myself, asking if whatever I do and say to them would creep me out. If yes then I seriously held back. So, of course when this happened with my T I was doing everything in my power to suppress it. I almost quit because I just couldn't. It was reading Shrinklady's article that finally clued me in to what was going on then I finally felt comfortable enough to ask my T about it. Her response was very casual but welcoming. "Everybody does it all the time so some degree. Recognizing and owning it is what keeps it in check." She went on to explain that she welcomes in in therapy because of all the stuff that has already been said by AG and JM. Needless to say I was pretty miffed (and still am a little sometimes) that she didn't warn me that this could happen and when it became obvious that is was happening she still didn't say anything. If I hadn't fount SL's article I might still be in the dark.

So, it seems that the two camps like to keep it a secret from us clients to either avoid dealing with it or to encourage it to happen. Either way the client doesn't know which way their T leans until they are already in the thick of it and if their T doesn't "go there" then what? It would be very hard to break the attachment and find a new T. It just doesn't seem fair or helpful. I think though that a T's ability to handle transference well has a lot to do with whether or not they have done their own "work" (therapy) and if they have experienced it for themselves. That is one thing I have learned, the really good T have done their own work and continue to do so. I would be curious to know if SG, AJB, and Charlotte's Ts have ever done their own therapy. You know you can ask them that too. I think is a reasonable question. You wouldn't pay good money for food from a chef who has never tasted their own cooking, right?

quote:

I would be curious to know if SG, AJB, and Charlotte's Ts have ever done their own therapy. You know you can ask them that too

RIVER:

thanks for the reassurance. idon't think i could ask my T if he has done therapy. i would be terrified to. maybe i am scared he will think i'm "too obsessive" and refer me to someone else. i don't think i could handle that. i have mentioned transference to him before. he just looked down for a second with a modest smile, and I changed the subject. but he brought it up later during that session and asked me what i thought that was about. i said i guess because he is so "nice" to me. it was very difficult for me to talk about, so i didn't talk much, and was certainly withdrawn, so he didn't push it. in recounting all this to you, i guess he's really a good therapist after all(LOL).

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:
And SprintingGal, "Get a hobby or write romance novels about him??" C’mon! Actually the writing of romance novels may not be so bad if it were to work through the feelings beneath the surface like “journaling” helps to do, but I am inclined to believe it may only fuel the fantasies if not given proper expression and direction.

I do journal about him. TONS. I write letters to him in my journal sometimes when I feel like I wish he were there to talk to in addition to arbitrary entries about what I think about him that day and how I feel about it. I have also written creatively as well and it did take a lot of the sexual charge out of it for me.

But get a hobby? I don't only think of him because I have "too much time on my hands." I am naturally a thoughtful, inquisitive person who is curious about things. When I don't understand something, I seek out all the information on it that I can. What is wrong with that?

Yesterday I found some excerpts from a book by David Richo called, "When the Past is Present." I don't know if it is any good, but this struck a huge chord with me:

quote:

One example of transference is a patient falling in love with her physician. He is kind, understanding, reliable, and genuinely concerned about her. These are all the qualities she wished her father would have had. The patient might later marry this doctor and find out, as time goes by, that he is not what she imagined. Her conscious mind and heart believed she had found a replacement for her father. Her deep psyche, her unconscious, was quite adept at finding instead a substitute for her father. The doctor-husband turned out later in the relationship to be like dad after all, unavailable, unable to listen. The bond began with a transferred hope but became a transferred replay.

A transferred replay. Dr. X is not my first transference experience but they all ended up being unavailable just like my own dad. Spooky...

WellI plan to ask my T what he thinks about my transference now that he has had a few weeks to think about it...and I also plan to ask him if he ever gave his own therapy...I want him to know that I am not a bimbo and I can see thru the cracks. I also plan to tell him that he doesn't have to run from me (move away), because I am not going to jump his bones....(but the thought has crossed my mine) LOL!! He made me weekly appointments thru the end of the year, so he evidently is not considering throwing me out...I called his office today (bad time after lunch) and HE actually called back to see if I was alright....so it can't be to bad for him...Thanks for all the info tonight...I have also googled tranference, it is way out there on some sites....I also looked my T up on the computer...and tried to get his address/phone #...just to ride by somtime to see if he really seemed happy...I guess we all are really oncessed in our own ways.. gotta run..Charlotte

quote:

Originally posted by SprintingGal:
But get a hobby? I don't only think of him because I have "too much time on my hands." I am naturally a thoughtful, inquisitive person who is curious about things. When I don't understand something, I seek out all the information on it that I can. What is wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing is wrong with that. I do the same thing but it is at times when I am so “wrapped up in it” myself that I personally feel obsessive. Not that it is obsessive because I would tell someone else that it is not. But sometimes I have a hard time hearing my own voice because my father’s critical voice is so loud. I was just looking for some counterbalance to my own mixed emotions. (someone out there please tell me I’m not obsessive )

I am naturally inquisitive too and a self proclaimed information junkie. The Internet can be a dangerous place and my T has also “maternally warned me” to be careful how much information I accept as “truth” on the Internet. I love how she cares for me. But I assure her that I am aware that half the stuff (conservatively) is junk.

But if it weren’t for the Internet, like River, I would have never learned that what I was feeling for my T was transference let alone learned what transference was all about. It appeared that she was never going to clue me in on it so I had to do some fancy footwork and load my barrels before I could confront her. If it wasn’t for the Internet I would have never found this site or made such nice friends/acquaintances here, and I would have not yet found the courage to expose my rawest emotions and trust that it was really ok. I wonder what clients did before the Internet?? LOL

Anyway, you don’t need to have “too much time on your hands” to think of someone nor would I ever accuse anyone else of “having too much time on their hands.” I hope it didn't sound like I was doing that. I know I can go through the day as busy as a bee but somewhere, whether consciously or subconsciously, I am always thinking of my T. The only reason I said that of myself is because I seriously could not move to do anything else yesterday (though I had lots that needed to be done) because of my neck spasms. It was a self-deprecating statement as to why I was surfing the web on transference again when I have a completely useful tool right here. That is what triggered my “old” obsessive feelings I used to get when I would endlessly search for any information on transference because it is ALL I could think about then. It felt obsessive “then.”

The get a hobby part… I hope you don’t think that is my statement; I was quoting what you said in your post.

quote:

Yesterday I found some excerpts from a book by David Richo called, "When the Past is Present." I don't know if it is any good, but this struck a huge chord with me:

I bet that did. It sounds like an interesting book. Let me know what you think if you ever read the whole thing. I’d be interested in reading it too if you find it helpful.

I too have experienced transference feelings for others besides my T. I didn’t know what it was at the time, but looking back I did that a lot and to be honest, I now find it reassuring to know what it was because I used to think that something was wrong with me and that people would think I was weird if they knew how I felt about them. It was usually school teachers, and once it was a friend’s mom I wished was my mom. Another time it was toward a lady for whom I babysat her son, and even in my adult life I’ve had a couple friends that evoked transference feelings for me. But I love the safety and openness of it in my therapy. (I never thought I’d hear myself say that! I love transference-HA!)-I need therapy!

quote:

Hi JM,
Sit down, relax, have a cup of tea, I feel a long post coming on.

I've switched from tea to coffee and I'm still reading. LOL-just kidding AG!

I am amazed that no matter how much I already know this stuff; to hear you or someone else remind me always makes such a difference. –Thanks. Those primitive emotions can be very difficult for someone like me who “intellectualizes everything” to a fault. My dad taught me that very well to intellectualize or rationalize my emotions. He’d say things like; “You should know better than to feel that way!” Honestly! Boy I’d like to give him a piece of my mind! Actually I do that sometimes. He is much more willing to listen to me now that I know how to stand up for myself. Believe it or not he has even replied in return, “You’re right babe, I never thought about it that way.” (–You’re telling me!) My siblings are even amazed at how I can get him to reason sometimes, but then he forgets the conversation and goes right back to his old patterns. But the man is 83 years old, what more can I expect?

So I just have to keep telling myself “it’s limbic!”

quote:

( a good example, you have not flown off to wherever your T is )

How can you be so sure??
(She asks while muffling the sound of the flight attendants pre-flight instructions)

quote:

How can you be so sure??
(She asks while muffling the sound of the flight attendants pre-flight instructions)

Oh, please you would have been gone a week ago! (Also just kidding, that was really funny!)

I totally understand that tendency to intellectualize this stuff. It would be so less messy to be able to "think" our way out of it. I, for one, would be a LOT more comfortable. And I've lost track of how many times my T has had to explain this. It's gotten to the point that when one of us says "I know" we both just crack up. I am impressed though, that you've learned to get through to your dad, that's pretty amazing.

I'm going to go get some coffee, hopefully you didn't finish all of it.

AG

quote:

A transferred replay. Dr. X is not my first transference experience but they all ended up being unavailable just like my own dad. Spooky...

Hi Sprinting Gal,
There's actually a really reasonable explanation for why that would keep happening. Below is a passage from The General Theory of Love by Thomas Lewis pg. 160-161 in the paperback edition. (yes, I am obsessed with that book. )

"Zeroing in on how to love goes hand in hand with whom. A baby strives to tune in with his parents, but he cannot judge their goodness. He attaches to whoever is there, with the unconditional fixity we profess to require of later attachments: for better or worse; for richer, for poorer; in sickness and in health. Attachment is not a critic; a child adores his mother's face, and he runs to her whether she is pretty or plain. And he prefers the emotional patterns of the family he knows, regardless of its objective merits. As an adult his heart will lean toward these outlines. The closer a potential mate matches his prototypes, the more enticed and entranced he will be -- the more he will feel that here, at last, with this person, he belongs."
[SNIP}
"A relationship that strays from one's prototype is limbically equivalent to isolation. Loneliness outweighs most pain. These two facts collude to produce one of love's common and initially baffling quirks: most people will choose misery with a partner their limbic brain recognizes over the stagnant pleasure of a "nice" relationship with someone their attachment mechanisms cannot detect."

I think one of the main points of therapy is to "re-wire" your limbic brain and attachement mechanisms through your relationship with your therapist so that a healthy relationship, someone who can provide what you need, is "visible" to you and feels like home.

AG

Charlotte,
I'm glad you're going to talk to your T about the transference, it's best not to leave stuff unspoken in therapy, it tends to muddy the waters. I'm glad to hear he called you back also, he certainly sounds like he's involved.

AG

Shrinklady... I call my T on stuff all the time. He admits that I'm the only patient that does. Many of his patients are teens and children so he does not run into this with them. We have a good relationship though and I think I challenge him and push him out of his comfort zone. He does rise to the occasion most time. In fact, he has told me that I make him a better psychologist. I took that as enormous compliment.

True North

Hi True North,

I know I’m not Shrinklady, but I just wanted to comment on how that IS an enormous compliment. Good for you for challenging your T to be the best that he can be. I believe that the therapeutic relationship should be approached as an opportunity for growth by both parties involved: Personally for us the clients, and professionally for the therapist. It is wonderful to have that kind of relationship; otherwise I am afraid it may become rather stagnant.

JM

i duno abut transference stuf, but i kno i love me T and her loves me!
samy
p.s. i tinkin we oughta start a new one caled transference part 2 cuz this is getin rathr long.

Isn’t that just the best love? It is for me anyway. I love my T too. How are you doing with cutting down on your T time? I hope it is going ok for you, I know it must be hard.