Tas,

You have absolutely no idea - but your T is probably the best T in the entire world. He believes in you, he is not giving up on you, he is doing everything possible to be there for you.

You have a pile of us here giving you advice - based on our years of experience, pain and tears - we are saying to you to stick with this guy. GO to each appointment, stop fighting, listen to him, take in his care.

He is a great T. You be a great client and turn up on Wednesday.

Somedays.

I think he is engaging in a power struggle with you. He is trying to get you to submit. Why do you want referrals from him? If it were me, I would not go to the next appointment and I would use a different method for finding a new therapist. Referrals from someone who was not him to begin with. I would not let him dictate the appointment thing.

Engage with your T Tas and stop fighting.

A lot of (good) Ts want to do a termination session in person. If that's really what you want, for sure, then tell him that's what you want and you're hoping to get referrals from him in that session.

But, I don't think it's what you want deep down. You want him to want you to stay. I think he does, because he thinks he can help you. I could be wrong about his motives and I don't agree that the lack of outside contact is actually helpful to you. But, after all the testing he is experiencing, he may be experiencing your request for referrals as more of the same. From my perspective, hearing about it, I question whether that is what it is, so it wouldn't surprise me if he wonder whether deep down, there is some subconscious testing of his "being there" right now.

I get you need to feel in control of this incredibly painful situation. And I think the way he's reacting, while his intentions are to show you consistent boundaries and consistent acceptance, may be increasing your feelings of powerlessness and need to assert control of the situation. But, if you guys don't sit down and talk about all that stuff, it will never get worked out, and the same dynamic will play out again elsewhere in your life (either with another T or in another relationship).

It may be that he is just NOT the right T for you, being too inflexible. I'm not eliminating that as a possibility. But, from this end, it really sounds to me like he is at least attempting to do what he thinks is best for you, even if it ends up not working for you (it's possible it will, it's possible it won't, but without giving it a fair chance, one never knows).

Anyway, this is really hard and I know it's terrifying and confusing. I'm so sorry. I wish I knew a way to make it better other than showing up and trying. Maybe you need to show up on Wednesday and simply say, "Look, I want to make this work, but I can't do it this way. I cannot go one hour per week with no contact at all in between and feel safe and connected enough to share a bunch of really hard stuff. I don't know if there is any way we can structure some other sort of support for me, either extra sessions or scheduled check-ins or helping me find another resource/group to go to in between, but I need more support than I am getting from our current setup if I'm going to be able to stick this out and not run away."

It doesn't mean you get to decide how that support is given, because boundaries are a negotiation between two people, but when you identify the need, your T should at least be responsive as far as ideas he has to help you between sessions. If there is no answer other than just waiting it out and show up for the next hour a week down the line, then he really doesn't get it. But, if he tries to work with you on ways to make that in between time more manageable, give his suggestions a chance to work, if you want to keep this relationship.

TAS, you don't have to protect your T from anything; it is his job to listen to your stuff and your job just to try and get yourself to session and convey to him that you still have things you need to share. I think he is trying to keep a very firm boundary with you, maybe he feels that by being consistent he will show that he is going to stick with you. I am pretty certain my T wouldn't just accept a request for 2 referrals without a big sit down and talk about it. In fact I know she would't, we have an agreement for her not to, in order to protect me from any rash decisions!

My advice is at least to go and talk TAS, running away doesn't put closure on anything.

Good luck,

starfishy

TAS,

that experience with your T this morning sounds so horrible. I can understand your frustration that your T wouldn't just give you the referrals but I would encourage you to start looking for a new T independently. If you are going to quit T then you might not trust his referrals anyway. You seem to be feeling a lot of contradictory things right now which unfortunately is common experience. If you are like me you would like to feel just one way about your T. I say that because you say you want to quit and you arent' willing to try and new T but then you ask him for referrals (which you wouldn't need if you weren't going to try a new T). You can't stand the pain and you are so angry at your T for not understanding how much pain his boundaries are causing but you want his opinion on a new T. I completely understand feeling so many different ways about one thing, sometimes I wish my feelings would just stick. I think therapy is working or it isn't. I trust T or he is a huge jerk. It is hard to keep up with the swings.

I am going to respond to your prior thread too, particularly this part.

quote:

May I ask what good does it do to discuss something with someone if they are not going to change their mind? If someone knows something is difficult for you already, then if you say it is difficult...but it doesn't bring about change, then why discuss it?

I can't tell you how often I've said this or the million times more I've thought it. I would like to only feel things that help me change things. I don't want to feel things about things that I am powerless to change. BUT, I have experienced that sometimes it does help to discuss my feelings with someone even though they won't change a thing (usually with my T, but sometimes with my husband and even occasionally with a sibling).

I've been in therapy for 5 years and many, many times I have gone to therapy so angry and hurt that I have finally been willing to talk about how much my T hurt me because I had planned to quit. I had given up trying to negotiate something. I had given up trying to be nice or reasonable or explain how bad I was and how I knew it was my fault but I still hurt. Instead I planned to just tell off my T and never go back. Sometimes I had even seen another T for a consultation before I decided to tell off my T. Each time telling my T how I angry I felt, how much he had hurt me, how I could tell he didn't really care or he wouldn't have done what he had done and having him listen made a difference. He didn't change his boundaries in lots of those cases. He empathasized with my feelings but he didn't change what he was doing. Now I don't have to get to the point of quitting to tell him how I feel but I still fight with myself about it.

I don't think you can expect he will change his boundaries about outside session contact. I hope he does but I wouldn't talk to him trying to convince him. Instead I would go in and tell him exactly how you feel. Tell him that it hurts so much that you would rather find another T to work with. Tell him he doesn't understand or doesn't care or whatever it feels like to you. Then decide what happens next.

(TAS) -

That sounds like a wonderful T to me. As you may have read, I had the opposite experience. I quite therapy and I never heard another word. No resistance to my quitting, no asking me to come in for a termination session, no nothing. Just Good Riddens to Bad Rubbish! I didn't know at the time of course that I needed a termination session. I knew that I needed to quit therapy (and my reasons were very different than yours) but all the same, I just wanted to get what I needed from old T (for insurance purposes) and high tale it out of there. She went ahead and let me. And it was awful....I suffered a lot from that ending. ANY good therapist would do exactly what your T did in my opinion. If your set on leaving, then that's your choice but as a good therapist, it sounds like he is going to at least offer a closing session b/c even though you don't know you need it, he does.

If your going to leave TAS, then leave. Why get referrals from him? Just start looking on your own. It's obvious something is keeping you hanging on.

quote:

But, I don't think it's what you want deep down. You want him to want you to stay. I think he does, because he thinks he can help you. I could be wrong about his motives and I don't agree that the lack of outside contact is actually helpful to you. But, after all the testing he is experiencing, he may be experiencing your request for referrals as more of the same. From my perspective, hearing about it, I question whether that is what it is, so it wouldn't surprise me if he wonder whether deep down, there is some subconscious testing of his "being there" right now.

I'm sorry this is so hard for you (((TAS)))

Hi Tas,
I just want to add a small comment about what you said about what is the point of discussing feelings if it is not going to change anything.

My T is pregnant. I was devastated when she told me 5 months ago. I was angry with her, felt betrayed, ashamed and guilty for feeling like this.

The first session I just cried and said nothing, but I went back the next day a bit calmer and T said tell mewhat you are feeling.
I said "it does not matter what I feel, you are still pregnant."
T's response was, yes she is pregnant and she hopes the pregnancy will continue, but she understands it has a huge impact on me and our relationship. We have talked about it many times since and yes she is still pregnant, but I am Ok with it now and know that I can talk to her about whatever I feel about it and her.
Talking about your feelings is not just about changing what you don't like, but about being heard and understood and validated.

Try to tell T how you feel, It really may help you.

TAS.. Whether you realize it or not, you DO have a choice here. You can just leave. So the fact that you're still going, even if it's just for two minutes, speaks a lot as to what you want.

I recently discussed with my T wanting to leave. And I think she would have been similarly stubborn if I just said, outside of session, that I wanted referrals and we wouldn't be discussing it. So we talked about the reasons why I felt like I wanted to leave, and we talked about the dilemma that she was in, because she knew she had to toe that line between allowing me the space to leave but not making me feel unwanted.

TAS..if you want to even have a possibility of getting a morsel of what you want from your T, you HAVE to be open with him and tell him everything you're thinking and feeling.

Good luck.

Thank you to each of you for your heart felt replies.

I hope he understands why I feel I must go. I hope he understands. That is what I want most. I did send him a letter trying to explain. This is my issue and he has every right to set boundaries and implement what he feels is most needed. If I feel that I am not able to honor his request, and he won't tell me to go...then I must go on my own.

Thank you for being such an awesome group of people.

T.

((((TAS)))))