Hello Hemlock nice to see you back here. I’m sorry you’re in such a state though. I see that you finally did run from your marriage – is this a temporary separation or finally over?

From what you’ve described you’ve got a LOT of things going on for you and all of them stressful, and given your tendency to want to run from things it’s hardly surprising that therapy is posing a big threat to you, especially as your T’s care and concern has gotten in and touched something deeply fearful for you.

I can relate a little bit to how you’re feeling – the gratitude suddenly turning to terror and the need to isolate and withdraw from a potentially emotionally dangerous situation (it may not be dangerous in reality, but obviously everything in your set up and past is telling you that it is!)

I am only just now glimpsing the swirling terror underneath my surface feelings, and it’s all to do with having someone appear to me as a good kind giving caring there for me person (T in other words) – for some reason this absolutely terrifies me rather than makes me want to draw closer (though paradoxically, I also equally want to get closer, to get more of the good stuff.)

I’m not at the point yet where I feel threatened enough to openly talk about this with T, but it’s what I’d suggest you do. Instead of focusing on trying to continue talking about the ‘important issues’ maybe you need to talk to him directly about this fear that’s coming up in you, and the way you are withdrawing from him? It sounds like you have a good relationship with your T and chances are that if you are able to start telling him about your need to isolate and how frightened you are of what’s coming up for you, that may well be the way forward.

I hope you can talk to him about this, and I’m glad to hear that you’re not thinking of running from therapy but are looking for ways to stay. That’s got to be a positive thing no?

LL

(((((HEMLOCk))))

Just wanted to send support and hugs. Caring is scary. I totally get why you would get scared by T being so warm and supportive. Try not to beat yourself up over that one. And listen to LL. She gives some darn good advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamplighter:
...I can relate a little bit to how you’re feeling – the gratitude suddenly turning to terror and the need to isolate and withdraw from a potentially emotionally dangerous situation (it may not be dangerous in reality, but obviously everything in your set up and past is telling you that it is!)

I am only just now glimpsing the swirling terror underneath my surface feelings, and it’s all to do with having someone appear to me as a good kind giving caring there for me person (T in other words) – for some reason this absolutely terrifies me rather than makes me want to draw closer (though paradoxically, I also equally want to get closer, to get more of the good stuff.)

Oh Lampers, this is exactly it! I crave the empathy and his caring, but then am sucked into a maelstrom of terror very quickly after I receive it. But I can't define what it is EXACTLY I'm afraid of -- intellectually I know that he is no threat to me, yet threat looms large. I'm emotionally stuck in it and feel it physically too. He's given me the PTSD amygdala speech, even used a plastic brain for show-n-tell, but the biology lesson isn't fixing this.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamplighter:
...maybe you need to talk to him directly about this fear that’s coming up in you, and the way you are withdrawing from him?

Last night I sent him an e-mail admitting that I am withdrawing (he'd already mentioned this in last week's session) and I'm doing so because I'm at the point where disclosing XYZ leaves me needing reassurance from him which turns out to be intolerable to me when I get it. We will talk about it on Tuesday, I'm sure, but so often I don't hear/remember what is said -- I think it's a form of dissociating. It's like a mental cringe triggered when he says things that are hard for me to hear...even the good things, so I end up not hearing or internalizing the really important stuff, of course!

Thank you for sharing that you are experiencing this as well, although misery loves company I am very sorry you are in the thick of it. If I can remember what T says to me on Tuesday I will come back and update this thread. (But, seriously, it's likely to be along the lines of: "T said something really important and helpful but what exactly it was I haven't the foggiest f***ing clue. Oh, and I'm terrified!")

quote:

Originally posted by Liese:
...wanted to send support and hugs. ...And listen to LL. She gives some darn good advice.

Thank you Liese. You are a bundle of sweetness and I love reading your posts. You give great advice too!

quote:

(But, seriously, it's likely to be along the lines of: "T said something really important and helpful but what exactly it was I haven't the foggiest f***ing clue. Oh, and I'm terrified!")

I remember this from my old T. I had the same problem hemlock and it was so frustrating. It doesn't happen as much with my new T, since I don't really care what he thinks of me.

I'm wondering if the fear you are experiencing has to do with some kind of trigger...like maybe, when you were small, anytime someone may have reassured you, or been kind to you and you felt safe for a moment- it was immediately withdrawn and replaced with something threatening...or, the care that you may have experienced on some occassions was so shrot lived and you thean returned to a place of deep suffering once again...so that, maybe now when you experience caring it feels like something bad is going to happen very soon...it hurts so much to have that moment of relief and peace because you know it won't last? Almost like you could cope better without it, because what you are used to can be tolerated, but to experience relief and being cared about may be so blissful that returning to real life and the pain yet again, you know will hurt all the more for having experienced the relief? idk...maybe I'm just talking shit, but I think that might be part of what it is for me, so I thought it might be the same thing. But...if it is, try not to wait for the other shoe to drop, and just be in *this* present moment, for now, at least when it is a good moment.

As for the dissociation thing...I did it often with old T...I would just try to stay present, but my mind just would wander off...and I would forget everything...even though at the time, I can remember the sense of being fully engaged. Weird. and frustrating. I wonder if recording sessions would help you? It's something I was always tempted to try with old T but I never did.

I hope so much that you are able to talk over all this fear that is coming up within you...and find some answers, and more importantly- some peace and respite from the pain, even if for only a few moments. As time goes on those moments will get longer and longer...and you will be able to hold onto the good, in time, much easier without so much fear. Slowly, though, just go slowly. That is the key. There is no rush...really, there isn't. So rest in your T, and trust him with your feelings, and all will trun out ok, in the end.

Hugs- it is very nice to see you posting again!

Love,

Beebs

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird:
I'm wondering if the fear you are experiencing has to do with some kind of trigger...like maybe, when you were small, anytime someone may have reassured you, or been kind to you and you felt safe for a moment- it was immediately withdrawn and replaced with something threatening...or, the care that you may have experienced on some occasions was so short lived and you then returned to a place of deep suffering once again...so that, maybe now when you experience caring it feels like something bad is going to happen very soon

I'm certain it is exactly how you've so wonderfully explained it but I struggle to accept that understanding because I am so removed from remembering/experiencing/relating to the feelings of fear and pain undoubtedly present way back when that to my rational brain none of this present fear makes any sense. Much like I don't make any sense right now, lol. (argh!)

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird:
...it hurts so much to have that moment of relief and peace because you know it won't last? Almost like you could cope better without it, because what you are used to can be tolerated, but to experience relief and being cared about may be so blissful that returning to real life and the pain yet again, you know will hurt all the more for having experienced the relief? idk...maybe I'm just talking shit, but I think that might be part of what it is for me, so I thought it might be the same thing. But...if it is, try not to wait for the other shoe to drop, and just be in *this* present moment, for now, at least when it is a good moment.

Yes, a thousand times yes to this. I CAN cope better without it. Therapy is stripping away what I do well in terms of outwardly functioning as an apparently normal person, albeit in its dysfunction, and replacing it with what exactly? Right now, pain and fear. Oh I'm really not liking it and a strong part of me is fighting it, making it nearly impossible to soak any of it in -- but I say, "nearly" because there's always hope I will get to the point where you tentatively are and be able to just take in little bits in each moment. And you could not have described the split second of experiencing my T's caring any better -- blissful. That's it exactly. Then it's stomped on and replaced with...well, you know.

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird
As for the dissociation thing...I did it often with old T...even though at the time, I can remember the sense of being fully engaged.

Again, spot on. I hear what he is saying in the moment and I engage in conversation about it. I even think to myself, this is REALLY important, but pretty much as soon as I walk out of his office if not before then I've forgotten most of it -- what remains is usually fragments out of context. It's so frustrating. I have thought about asking to tape sessions...but it feels like a HUGE request and I'm just now, after seven months, getting to the point where I might ask for a bottle of water if he hasn't already offered it.

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird
I hope so much that you are able to talk over all this fear that is coming up within you...and find some answers, and more importantly- some peace and respite from the pain, even if for only a few moments. As time goes on those moments will get longer and longer...and you will be able to hold onto the good, in time, much easier without so much fear. Slowly, though, just go slowly. That is the key. There is no rush...really, there isn't. So rest in your T, and trust him with your feelings...

This is beautifully expressed. Thank you Beebs, so much!

Just updating after my discussion with T yesterday.

I talked to him about the fear response to his affirmations and how I am unable to let the intent of his words in. He said what everyone here already knows -- it's a function of the experience in childhood of hearing good things directly followed by bad acts on the part of others.

He said that he knows on some level I trust that he won't hurt me...and he's right, I do. That he has only my best interests at heart. That I'm safe with him. I acknowledged all of that to be true but said the fear response is overwhelming causing me to shut down. He said that it will take time for me to experience, through his consistent repetition/reinforcement of affirmations when coupled with his safe presence, the true and good weight of feeling valued and cared for.

I told him that I do get that split second of *feel good* feeling (like BB said, blissful) but then my brain takes over and stomps it all to bits. He said that he's seen it but that I appear to be taking a moment longer to reject it. I think that's probably true too. My physical reaction always was as automatic as my mental reaction -- I literally would shrug my shoulders and roll my head as if trying to get it off of me but I have that reaction much less now.

It was a good conversation. But the bottom line, just like every wiser forum poster has shared of their own journey, it's going to take a lot of time and repetition and experiencing my T as safe and authentic.

I wish there were a pill to take instead.

quote:

He said that it will take time for me to experience, through his consistent repetition/reinforcement of affirmations when coupled with his safe presence, the true and good weight of feeling valued and cared for.

This is absolutely true...you need to experience it over and over and again...many, many times before it will feel safe to let it in. It is as simple, and as difficult as learning to play a musical instrument...a matter of doing something the wrong way so many times, until your brain figures out the "right combination" and can respond the way you need, and that is appropriate. Slow but steady wins the race...every time. So I applaud your courage in pursuing the goal of allowing another to care for you.

quote:

then my brain takes over and stomps it all to bits. He said that he's seen it but that I appear to be taking a moment longer to reject it. I think that's probably true too. My physical reaction always was as automatic as my mental reaction -- I literally would shrug my shoulders and roll my head as if trying to get it off of me but I have that reaction much less now.

This is excellent!! You are literally learning a new skill..letting something good in when you have been conditioned not to...slowly, it will be less, and then less painful to accept the good feelings, and then, you will find they last longer...the bliss may not be as "druglike" as you heal more- but may dissipate as your pain lessens, into a more peaceful acceptance and sense of well-being- I suspect. For me, accepting *that* is the hardest part, because I want the blissful feeling, I would almost prefer to stay ill just for the chance to experience it!! And letting that go, I am learning, is also a sk9ill, that will take time, and slow acceptance and effort. But that is the next step...for now your task is to allow yourself to enjoy the warm feelings when they come. Your T cares. Yes, it may hurt that he cares, more than it would if he did not- but this pain is good pain, not bad pain. Better the good pain, than the bad pain. My new motto! Chin up! It takes real perseverence to allow the wounded self to feel good, and to feel cared about. Let it in...but slowly.

Much love,

Beebs