Starfish is out there, can she send me some painting fairies? back to it!
If Starfish is out there, can she send me some painting fairies?
back to it!
Starfish is out there, can she send me some painting fairies? back to it!
Wow Beebs,
Sorry to hear you're so down on yourself again. My T says (and many will agree) that most people get into therapy because they want a connection . That is also reason enough. It sounds to my like Cowboy T has a therapy style that does not include a humanistic view. We do need to take responsibility for changing our lives but we also need the tools and the space- literally to take everything out- organize it, dump the garbage and then put it back.
My T is also a Christian T- a Mormon. As Mormon's we believe the God and Jesus Christ know us individually, know our challenges, our trials, our worries and our sins and that we can have that personal relationship with God. However, even as a christian T, my T could easily do therapy without using the Gospel. His personal belief is that all the answers lie in the gospel- but therapy is still psychological.
I know Cowboy has done well for you. This may be a "growth spurt." But I hope you wanted keep using it as a way to further denigrate yourself.
Sorry to hear you're so down on yourself again. My T says (and many will agree) that most people get into therapy because they want a connection . That is also reason enough. It sounds to my like Cowboy T has a therapy style that does not include a humanistic view. We do need to take responsibility for changing our lives but we also need the tools and the space- literally to take everything out- organize it, dump the garbage and then put it back.
My T is also a Christian T- a Mormon. As Mormon's we believe the God and Jesus Christ know us individually, know our challenges, our trials, our worries and our sins and that we can have that personal relationship with God. However, even as a christian T, my T could easily do therapy without using the Gospel. His personal belief is that all the answers lie in the gospel- but therapy is still psychological.
I know Cowboy has done well for you. This may be a "growth spurt." But I hope you wanted keep using it as a way to further denigrate yourself.
Hey, thanks ND...I never even realize it when I come across as denigrating myself. I don't really have the intention to do that- I guess I just do it without even realizing I am.
I'm gonna go back and delete my previous post to LL, (sorry LL) because I feel badly that that's the way it came across. I guess I was trying to explain why parts of the Christian message work for me, and how some very common interpretations of that message don't really work for me, either. What I'm really after is the truth. cowboy doesn't really use the gospel, unless I bring stuff up. But, if his world view is that we take responsibility for everything we are and do, than I am struggling simply because that hasn't worked for me in the past- I have enough guilt about my badness- which is real enough, and actually *not* just an excuse to avoid responsibility. there are things that I find I simply cannot find the resources within myself to control or stop. So I'm wondering why that is...like- is it because I need somebody to "put something in" that I never got, in order to make the changes that I want to make? Or is it just that, in the words of the immortal Popeye..."I yam what I yam, and that;'s what I yam." ? Maybe I just need to eat more spinach or something!
I'm gonna go back and delete my previous post to LL, (sorry LL) because I feel badly that that's the way it came across. I guess I was trying to explain why parts of the Christian message work for me, and how some very common interpretations of that message don't really work for me, either. What I'm really after is the truth. cowboy doesn't really use the gospel, unless I bring stuff up. But, if his world view is that we take responsibility for everything we are and do, than I am struggling simply because that hasn't worked for me in the past- I have enough guilt about my badness- which is real enough, and actually *not* just an excuse to avoid responsibility. there are things that I find I simply cannot find the resources within myself to control or stop. So I'm wondering why that is...like- is it because I need somebody to "put something in" that I never got, in order to make the changes that I want to make? Or is it just that, in the words of the immortal Popeye..."I yam what I yam, and that;'s what I yam." ? Maybe I just need to eat more spinach or something!
Grrrrrrrr Beebs, I wish you’d keep your feathers away from the delete button sometimes. I read your deleted post earlier and went away to think about it, you said some serious and profound things in it and I wanted to be sure about my thoughts before I replied, and now it’s gone! I’m sorry you felt you needed to delete, what you said was really interesting and gave a deep insight into some of the things going on in you. I hope you didn’t feel that what you wrote (denigrating yourself or not!) was in any way upsetting or offensive to others, or incurred anyone’s judgement, because it wasn’t and it didn’t.
On the other hand I can understand how it might have made you feel really vulnerable and exposed revealing what you did, so if you’ve deleted to protect yourself then that’s perfectly ok. Actually of course it’s perfectly ok your deleting your own posts for whatever reason! There is no admonition intended here. I just want to make it clear that I didn’t see anything in your post that would have warranted your deleting it
LL
On the other hand I can understand how it might have made you feel really vulnerable and exposed revealing what you did, so if you’ve deleted to protect yourself then that’s perfectly ok. Actually of course it’s perfectly ok your deleting your own posts for whatever reason! There is no admonition intended here. I just want to make it clear that I didn’t see anything in your post that would have warranted your deleting it
LL
Beebers
The decorating faries are nowhere to be found, having a tea break maybe ....found this little chap, he might be able to adapt ....
.
starfishy
The decorating faries are nowhere to be found, having a tea break maybe ....found this little chap, he might be able to adapt ....
.starfishy
oooo, I am sorry, LL...no admonition felt, but I did feel like when I get all philosophical it can be quite triggering or difficult for people to read, since my thoughts are often so religious in nature. It can come off as kinda "know it ally" I think, sometimes, or...holier than thou...or..something...I never want to sound that way, because they are simply thoughts, adding something to the pile of thoughts to examine and accept or disregard.....that is how I intend such things. I was also quite worried that I may have come off as sounding like..."well, it's Christian therapy, and I'm a Christian, aren't I great?" 
I really don't feel that way, I was just trying to explain my perspectives on it, and why Cowboy may have the approach of expecting improvement or change to come from within- I think he might just not get the emotional part of it for me, or something...but I find the Christian aspect in therapy a bit difficult to navigate at times because it presupposes a level of emotional maturity that I have yet to attain...things like faith, trust, behaving oneself and so on.
Ooooo, starryfish, thank you for sending me such a talented painter! I love him...does he do backsplashes?
ND, I hope you didn't feel bad, like as if you made me delete or something, because it really and truly was my own stuff. I often come across as beating myself up when I don't intend to do that, it's more just a way of explaining what's wrong inside or something like that.
I hope it ok I give hugs all the way around...(leans head on LL's shoulder)
BB
I really don't feel that way, I was just trying to explain my perspectives on it, and why Cowboy may have the approach of expecting improvement or change to come from within- I think he might just not get the emotional part of it for me, or something...but I find the Christian aspect in therapy a bit difficult to navigate at times because it presupposes a level of emotional maturity that I have yet to attain...things like faith, trust, behaving oneself and so on. Ooooo, starryfish, thank you for sending me such a talented painter! I love him...does he do backsplashes?
ND, I hope you didn't feel bad, like as if you made me delete or something, because it really and truly was my own stuff. I often come across as beating myself up when I don't intend to do that, it's more just a way of explaining what's wrong inside or something like that.
I hope it ok I give hugs all the way around...(leans head on LL's shoulder)
BB
(((((Beebs)))))
SO happy to hear that you got such a warm and reassuring response from your old T. You deserved that. I'm sorry it has also triggered sadness in you...I'm wondering if it's grief, now that you've gotten closure, now you can move through the grief and eventually beyond? Also, I hope you don't spend any more time beating yourself up because you considered that he might be a "bad" T. There is simply no way to know what's going on with him, until he tells you. And now that he's told you, now you know. But how were you supposed to know beforehand? It was really okay to want and expect a response. And I'm glad he finally gave you one.
What you said about Cowboy T really struck a chord with me. When he made the connection from loving yourself to loving others...and suggested that you might be avoiding one in order to avoid the other...is it possible that he was suggesting that you are doing this, NOT because you are "bad", but because you are afraid of being vulnerable and getting hurt again?
One of the things my T pointed out to me several times is how I sometimes "hear" or "see" judgment and condemnation in things people say to me, but that it was really that harsh internal critic inside of me chiming in. And I know you've talked about having something like that, too. So I'm wondering if something like that might be going on here.
Love,
SG
SO happy to hear that you got such a warm and reassuring response from your old T. You deserved that.
I'm sorry it has also triggered sadness in you...I'm wondering if it's grief, now that you've gotten closure, now you can move through the grief and eventually beyond? Also, I hope you don't spend any more time beating yourself up because you considered that he might be a "bad" T. There is simply no way to know what's going on with him, until he tells you. And now that he's told you, now you know. But how were you supposed to know beforehand? It was really okay to want and expect a response. And I'm glad he finally gave you one. What you said about Cowboy T really struck a chord with me. When he made the connection from loving yourself to loving others...and suggested that you might be avoiding one in order to avoid the other...is it possible that he was suggesting that you are doing this, NOT because you are "bad", but because you are afraid of being vulnerable and getting hurt again?
One of the things my T pointed out to me several times is how I sometimes "hear" or "see" judgment and condemnation in things people say to me, but that it was really that harsh internal critic inside of me chiming in. And I know you've talked about having something like that, too. So I'm wondering if something like that might be going on here.
Love,
SG
No BB, I didn't feel bad. I was raised Jewish and practiced and raised my kids that way. Honestly, my life has transformed since I became Mormon in 2009. I have no doubts as to the place God holds in my life and how Satan tries to derail us with evil thoughts. I now know that I am not the slut. Satan told me that I was. So no feeling bad. I hope that everyone can feel as secure in their spirituality as I do. xoxxo. I am truly blessed.
Thanks you SG and ND! SG, you make a very good point...I think this kind of thing happened a lot with my old T...I would take the most negative interpretation possible from his words, just automatically... he once said that he was sad that I did that, and of course, I thought he was "tricking" me. so it's possible that cowboy T really meant it as a way to point out the distrust in me, and not so much that I am unloving on purpose. Actually, that makes a great deal of sense...thank you very much. Sometimes I think T's don't even realize we could be doing this, and might forget to follow through with their conclusion, assuming we "got it."
ND thanks you- I'm glad that you didn't take offence. One of my issues is that I was treated very bdly as a small kid by "Christian" people, who told me things like "you have a criminal mind" over and again... so I do find talking about my own beliefs (which I have managed to hang onto simply because I *know* on some level that that is *not* the true message that Christianity offers (I am "Orthodox in Communion with Rome," now) but it hurts that I can't process the message of love internally, and function on this intellectual level because of what happened to me as a kid...something my old T was very good at helping me to understand.
Cowboy is good at it too..I'm pretty blessed to have found not one but two good men to help me work through these issues, and...due to the comments that Cowboy challenged me with the other day- on the issue of not taking responsibility to make changes- I had a very difficult discussion with my H, which ended with us closer than we were before!!
I feel so different since I got that email...guys, it is like a switch got flipped in my heart. I hold this warmth inside when I think of him, caring for me..
.and I believe in that care..I keep waiting for the distrust to come...but it never does!~ The pain is with me...but it's not raw and angry, it's...softer. It's almost like I am able to take in all the good stuff old T tried to give me for two years that I resisted *so* much...and let the stuff that didn't work go- just because he wrote this extremely kind email to me.
Maybe I'm ready to be challenged now- Cowboy certainly is challenging, I will say that! He pushes pretty hard. Maybe I need that.
Thank you so much, everyone.. for helping figure this T-thing out!
Love,
Beebs
ND thanks you- I'm glad that you didn't take offence. One of my issues is that I was treated very bdly as a small kid by "Christian" people, who told me things like "you have a criminal mind" over and again... so I do find talking about my own beliefs (which I have managed to hang onto simply because I *know* on some level that that is *not* the true message that Christianity offers (I am "Orthodox in Communion with Rome," now) but it hurts that I can't process the message of love internally, and function on this intellectual level because of what happened to me as a kid...something my old T was very good at helping me to understand.
Cowboy is good at it too..I'm pretty blessed to have found not one but two good men to help me work through these issues, and...due to the comments that Cowboy challenged me with the other day- on the issue of not taking responsibility to make changes- I had a very difficult discussion with my H, which ended with us closer than we were before!!
I feel so different since I got that email...guys, it is like a switch got flipped in my heart. I hold this warmth inside when I think of him, caring for me..
Maybe I'm ready to be challenged now- Cowboy certainly is challenging, I will say that! He pushes pretty hard. Maybe I need that.
Thank you so much, everyone.. for helping figure this T-thing out!
Love,
Beebs
BB,
Inspired as usual by your ability to open your heart when, no doubt, it brings you pain as well as deeper understanding.
Love that you are using this moment to consider embracing the challenge that is Cowboy T when it would be simpler, and understandable(!), to get mired in ruminating over "what if's" pertaining to former T.
It does sound as if you are ready for Cowboy T. I wonder if he is ready for you!
Inspired as usual by your ability to open your heart when, no doubt, it brings you pain as well as deeper understanding.
Love that you are using this moment to consider embracing the challenge that is Cowboy T when it would be simpler, and understandable(!), to get mired in ruminating over "what if's" pertaining to former T.
It does sound as if you are ready for Cowboy T. I wonder if he is ready for you!
Thank you, dear Hemlock...it is lovely to see you again..thank you for the kind things you said. It means a lot to me.
Hugs,
BB
Hugs,
BB
BB- I commend you on being able to hold on to your faith. So often, people give up on God because of things we humans do. Your "knowing" is the only way to know the truth- in your heart by the power of the holy spirit. I hope one day you will be able to feel the love. Sometimes I can.
Love, ND
Love, ND
**triggery maybe, for questioning therapy**
Thank you ND...it's kind of you to encourage me. I am kind of frustrated that my faith is so dry, and seem to bring me little comfort when other people around me are finding so much comfort from it. But I guess that is not really the point of faith...I mean, it's not just to find comfort- but rather it's something one either believes, or not- and I'm finding that, since I do happen to believe it, I can't let my emotional response dictate my actions around it. But the lack of connection around it does make it's practice very difficult. Oh well. poor me...
I hope it is ok I post an update. I saw Cowboy T again last night after a two week break. And, you know, I am just thinking that maybe I can't do therapy anymore. It's just so painful and draining, and most confusing! I started to reveal some stuff around my seemingly core issue ( dad transference stuff) and I was remembering some stuff from when I was around 15 years old and I used to hang out with this very old guy all the time. It was somehow painful and disturbing, in some way that I couldn't really put my finger on...and I was crying a bit- and then Cowboy said...do you want to talk about this- we have a few minutes left-
I got so triggered and of course I couldn't talk anymore after that because it was deep stuff for me, and difficult to talk about anyways- and it hit me so hard that painful dynamic in the relationship where you pay them for their time- once again- that no matter what, no matter how bad, needy or painful a spot you are in- the T will abandon you right there when the 50 minutes of paid time are up. It's not their fault- it's the way it has to be. But it's excruciating, and humiliating to be "jolted" like that week after week. Maybe it's a lesson I have to learn- maybe I need to learn that people do not have unlimited time to deal with my crap, and that it's my job to put it out there as quickly as possible and get it talked over, and solutions found...but when Cowboy said- "can we pick this thread up again next week?" I suddenly found myself saying..."I'm not so sure about that..." I told him that I am not sure I can continue with this. It was just a gut level response, and not at all rational- but for me those tend to be really powerful feelings, and I tend to listen to them because they impact me really deeply when they happen. He said, "ok, that's fine, just let me know by next week..." Then he went to the door and held it open for me...and I was still babbling incoherently about something or other- and then I left.
It's not him- it's the whole relationship of it. I'm realizing that this "timed relationship" factor is immensely triggering for me for some reason. I mean- here I am crying my eyes out and of course Cowboy thinks it's about the old guy from when I was 15, when really it's because he said "we have a few minutes left" right when I was in a really painful spot. I don't really connect with him in the emotional way I did with Guru, so it's not that I'm going to miss him, like it was with Guru...with him those moments of being abandoned were much worse, like pain upon pain- but at least he was sympathetic, idk- but it still hurts like hell, even tho
ugh I don't feel particularly attached to Cowboy. I don't think I can bare my soul to a person who does not and will not ever, love me, nor will I love him, since "ove is a two way street.... It is truly a relationship that is destined to go nowhere. It will never become anything- it will never be a friendship, it will never be a parent, family or lover- it will never even turn into an implicitly loving relationship, as was the case with Guru- it will just die it's own slow and natural death...
I'm going to take a bit of time to think about it, as Cowboy said I should, and let him know by next week. I just feel tired of trying to find something from therapy that I should be looking for in my marriage- even if it's not really possible to find it there. I'm so confused about this Father/erotic/little kid-ish dynamic I find myself continually in. It's really painful. And it comes from nowhere- it's just me. Nothing ever happened with my dad to cause this. I don't get it.
I wish I could understand it.
Thank you ND...it's kind of you to encourage me. I am kind of frustrated that my faith is so dry, and seem to bring me little comfort when other people around me are finding so much comfort from it. But I guess that is not really the point of faith...I mean, it's not just to find comfort- but rather it's something one either believes, or not- and I'm finding that, since I do happen to believe it, I can't let my emotional response dictate my actions around it. But the lack of connection around it does make it's practice very difficult. Oh well. poor me...
I hope it is ok I post an update. I saw Cowboy T again last night after a two week break. And, you know, I am just thinking that maybe I can't do therapy anymore. It's just so painful and draining, and most confusing! I started to reveal some stuff around my seemingly core issue ( dad transference stuff) and I was remembering some stuff from when I was around 15 years old and I used to hang out with this very old guy all the time. It was somehow painful and disturbing, in some way that I couldn't really put my finger on...and I was crying a bit- and then Cowboy said...do you want to talk about this- we have a few minutes left-
I got so triggered and of course I couldn't talk anymore after that because it was deep stuff for me, and difficult to talk about anyways- and it hit me so hard that painful dynamic in the relationship where you pay them for their time- once again- that no matter what, no matter how bad, needy or painful a spot you are in- the T will abandon you right there when the 50 minutes of paid time are up. It's not their fault- it's the way it has to be. But it's excruciating, and humiliating to be "jolted" like that week after week.
Maybe it's a lesson I have to learn- maybe I need to learn that people do not have unlimited time to deal with my crap, and that it's my job to put it out there as quickly as possible and get it talked over, and solutions found...but when Cowboy said- "can we pick this thread up again next week?" I suddenly found myself saying..."I'm not so sure about that..." I told him that I am not sure I can continue with this. It was just a gut level response, and not at all rational- but for me those tend to be really powerful feelings, and I tend to listen to them because they impact me really deeply when they happen. He said, "ok, that's fine, just let me know by next week..." Then he went to the door and held it open for me...and I was still babbling incoherently about something or other- and then I left. It's not him- it's the whole relationship of it. I'm realizing that this "timed relationship" factor is immensely triggering for me for some reason. I mean- here I am crying my eyes out and of course Cowboy thinks it's about the old guy from when I was 15, when really it's because he said "we have a few minutes left" right when I was in a really painful spot. I don't really connect with him in the emotional way I did with Guru, so it's not that I'm going to miss him, like it was with Guru...with him those moments of being abandoned were much worse, like pain upon pain- but at least he was sympathetic, idk- but it still hurts like hell, even tho
ugh I don't feel particularly attached to Cowboy. I don't think I can bare my soul to a person who does not and will not ever, love me, nor will I love him, since "ove is a two way street.... It is truly a relationship that is destined to go nowhere. It will never become anything- it will never be a friendship, it will never be a parent, family or lover- it will never even turn into an implicitly loving relationship, as was the case with Guru- it will just die it's own slow and natural death...
I'm going to take a bit of time to think about it, as Cowboy said I should, and let him know by next week. I just feel tired of trying to find something from therapy that I should be looking for in my marriage- even if it's not really possible to find it there. I'm so confused about this Father/erotic/little kid-ish dynamic I find myself continually in. It's really painful. And it comes from nowhere- it's just me. Nothing ever happened with my dad to cause this. I don't get it.
I wish I could understand it.
thank you FOT- I'm sorry you are in a similarly negative mode about therapy.
yeah- it's this...and it makes me feel like going there and opening up all these feelings that are nicely under wraps -except when I'm in that room with him- is a bit masochistic! I'm really questioning the *value* of it- for me. And, I too am sorry for being negative, but-
(((((FOT))))) thank you for your understanding-
BB
quote:Sometimes I think the very process of therapy, the boundaries, are causing me to relive those feelings. My P is very caring, but I know when my time is up, I have deal with my feelings myself, similarly to what I experienced as a child.
yeah- it's this...and it makes me feel like going there and opening up all these feelings that are nicely under wraps -except when I'm in that room with him- is a bit masochistic! I'm really questioning the *value* of it- for me. And, I too am sorry for being negative, but-
(((((FOT))))) thank you for your understanding-
BB
((((BB)))
I entirely missed your edit on your spackling post a page back. And I missed everything in between. I'm sorry you are not feeling connected with Cowboy T. And I'm sorry he is making it sound like you are not taking responsibility for yourself deliberately. Or that there might be more of a choice involved. And I'm sorry that the painful reality of the relationship jolted through you at the end of the session.
However, that said about the painful reality, there is also another reality. That therapy is between two human beings. We are not robots. They are not robots. Humans are wired for connection. And, so within the reality of this being a business relationship is another reality, BB, and that is of 2 human beings trying to connect to one another.
It seems like it would be worth a shot to go back and tell him how painful it was for you to hear that reminder that the session was almost up just as you were getting into something painful. And all the things you don't understand about therapy. And all the things you want to understand.
You can't fault yourself for looking for something that you need. It doesn't matter where you should be getting it from. The important thing to do is to uncover it in the first place. And that's the type of work people do with a therapist.
Can make the assumption that CowboyT must be a caring person because he is in a caring profession and force yourself back there to unload on him all that stuff written on this thread?
And just how you are interpreting him saying you're not taking responsibility for yourself? How it feels to you?
Do you ever wonder if he likes you BB? That was a biggie for me towards the beginning of my therapy (and the middle and now). It never seems to go away but it does get better. I needed to know my T likes me. It's so hard to ask, such a vulnerable question to throw out there. I was never able to do it until recently and even then, I used the word fond. But it's something to think about BB. Because it's not all about business. I totally disagree with you there. It's about two humans making a connection. The boundaries are manmade. The emotions and the connection, well I'll let you fill that in, who made those.
xoxoxo
Liese
I entirely missed your edit on your spackling post a page back. And I missed everything in between. I'm sorry you are not feeling connected with Cowboy T. And I'm sorry he is making it sound like you are not taking responsibility for yourself deliberately. Or that there might be more of a choice involved.
And I'm sorry that the painful reality of the relationship jolted through you at the end of the session. However, that said about the painful reality, there is also another reality. That therapy is between two human beings. We are not robots. They are not robots. Humans are wired for connection. And, so within the reality of this being a business relationship is another reality, BB, and that is of 2 human beings trying to connect to one another.
It seems like it would be worth a shot to go back and tell him how painful it was for you to hear that reminder that the session was almost up just as you were getting into something painful. And all the things you don't understand about therapy. And all the things you want to understand.
You can't fault yourself for looking for something that you need. It doesn't matter where you should be getting it from. The important thing to do is to uncover it in the first place. And that's the type of work people do with a therapist.
Can make the assumption that CowboyT must be a caring person because he is in a caring profession and force yourself back there to unload on him all that stuff written on this thread?
And just how you are interpreting him saying you're not taking responsibility for yourself? How it feels to you?
Do you ever wonder if he likes you BB? That was a biggie for me towards the beginning of my therapy (and the middle and now
). It never seems to go away but it does get better. I needed to know my T likes me. It's so hard to ask, such a vulnerable question to throw out there. I was never able to do it until recently and even then, I used the word fond. But it's something to think about BB. Because it's not all about business. I totally disagree with you there. It's about two humans making a connection. The boundaries are manmade. The emotions and the connection, well I'll let you fill that in, who made those.xoxoxo
Liese
((((BB))))
Just wanted to add that forget about trusting CowboyT. Trust yourself. You don't want anything illegitimate. You don't want anything that any other human being on this earth needs. There's nothing dirty or gross or repulsive about your needs and wants. We are all human. You are human. And you are deserving.
Do as I say and not as I do, BB. I've intellectualized my way through the last 4 years of therapy. But I can see now how easily those discussions are fruitless and only lead to misunderstandings and reasons to run.
more hugs,
xoxoxox
Liese
Just wanted to add that forget about trusting CowboyT. Trust yourself. You don't want anything illegitimate. You don't want anything that any other human being on this earth needs. There's nothing dirty or gross or repulsive about your needs and wants. We are all human. You are human. And you are deserving.
Do as I say and not as I do, BB. I've intellectualized my way through the last 4 years of therapy. But I can see now how easily those discussions are fruitless and only lead to misunderstandings and reasons to run.
more hugs,
xoxoxox
Liese
Thanks Liese, I appreciate your thoughts, as well.
I do trust Cowboy T. But I just don't trust the therapy relationship, for the reasons that FOT said so well. It's a very triggering relationship for me, which is what I'm starting to figure out about it- no matter how great the T is. I'm just not sure that it can do for me what it does for others. The boundaries are great, and I like and appreciate them- and they also trigger me really badly. It's the distance, the unrealness of it all, and that the no matter how much I open up or pour my heart out, the other person remains unmoved...it's just really triggery.
But- I do need my thinking to be challenged...so for that reason- I've sent Cowboy a quick email to let him know that I've decided to continue. I must be a glutton for punishment.
Love,
Beebs
I do trust Cowboy T. But I just don't trust the therapy relationship, for the reasons that FOT said so well. It's a very triggering relationship for me, which is what I'm starting to figure out about it- no matter how great the T is. I'm just not sure that it can do for me what it does for others. The boundaries are great, and I like and appreciate them- and they also trigger me really badly. It's the distance, the unrealness of it all, and that the no matter how much I open up or pour my heart out, the other person remains unmoved...it's just really triggery.
But- I do need my thinking to be challenged...so for that reason- I've sent Cowboy a quick email to let him know that I've decided to continue. I must be a glutton for punishment.
Love,
Beebs
(((BB)))
I'm so glad that you emailed CowboyT to let him know you've decided to continue.
I totally get the unrealness of it all. I've questioned it so many times myself. How can I feel all these intense things but the person sitting across from me doesn't? It all seems and feels like some kind of illusion I don't quite really understand either. And very scary.
It feels unreal because it was unreal. Maybe you can build a better and more real relationship with CowboyT.
But I don't agree with you that the other person sitting in the other chair is unmoved. And maybe that's where the problem was with GuruT? I think you've said he told you he cared about. But maybe he wasn't able to convey over the internet in a way that felt real to you?
I don't know about anyone else on this forum but I know that I need to know that my T cares about me as a person and not just in some abstract way. I can't go there with the deep emotions if he doesn't care about me. That would be asking me way too much.
So maybe it's just that you are not ready yet to open up to Cowboy T. You haven't gotten to that point of safety yet. Because you deserve and need to feel that kind of safety in the therapy room and to ask anything more of you or to expect anything less would be unreasonable.
Oh gosh, BB, sorry if I sound like I'm pontificating. I just hate to see you give up. Baby steps!!!
xoxo
Liese
I'm so glad that you emailed CowboyT to let him know you've decided to continue.
I totally get the unrealness of it all. I've questioned it so many times myself. How can I feel all these intense things but the person sitting across from me doesn't? It all seems and feels like some kind of illusion I don't quite really understand either. And very scary.
It feels unreal because it was unreal. Maybe you can build a better and more real relationship with CowboyT.
But I don't agree with you that the other person sitting in the other chair is unmoved. And maybe that's where the problem was with GuruT? I think you've said he told you he cared about. But maybe he wasn't able to convey over the internet in a way that felt real to you?
I don't know about anyone else on this forum but I know that I need to know that my T cares about me as a person and not just in some abstract way. I can't go there with the deep emotions if he doesn't care about me. That would be asking me way too much.
So maybe it's just that you are not ready yet to open up to Cowboy T. You haven't gotten to that point of safety yet. Because you deserve and need to feel that kind of safety in the therapy room and to ask anything more of you or to expect anything less would be unreasonable.
Oh gosh, BB, sorry if I sound like I'm pontificating. I just hate to see you give up. Baby steps!!!
xoxo
Liese
Thanks Liese...I'm not giving up- not yet. I think it is probably just the normal ups and downs of therapy that everyone seems to have. The process frustrates me, and annoys me. I'd like to be able to get on with my life without the need for this "extra" relationship. I'd like it if my H could fill those needs for me. Cowboy is starting to say the same thing Guru did- that it sounds like I am looking for something from therapy that I should really be asking my H to fill. But the thing is- I really *do* want to do the work. Or at least...I want to want to do the work.
I think I've figured something really crucial out. two things actually! One, is too personal to talk about here. The other, is that the relationship of therapy seems to work really well for me in terms of the level of support/interest/care that I need to feel ok about myself, and like there *is* someone who cares- for about 4 months...3 or 4 months. After that, I think (from my limited experience with this) that the therapist loses that spark of "interest" in "someone new-" and gets very bored with me- and I feel that, and lose interest in the process myself. At least this is the way it played out with Guru, and now, I think- Cowboy. My parents were incredibly bored and disinterested in me...my mom still is. She has absolutely no curiosity about me or my life, or my kids- at *all.* I think it just triggers me. Cowboy yawns a lot. He says it is because he is hungry.
Ok so that is something I should talk about next time, right? But it's the same old issue that I had with guru- yarg! He is starting to be like...."what would you like to talk about today" and I swear, it is *plot* against me! There is nothing I want to share- I need it drawn out of me, otherwise it feels so totally pointless. I'm tired of forcing myself on people...it's the same thing with my H- he has no interest or curiosity about me at all. yarg! It really provokes a transference when people are like that. That's why it was working so well at the beginning, because Cowboy had a lot of questions, seemed very interested in me- and for some reason that just puts me at ease and makes me able to talk, and without the fear and the triggery stuff. This "I'm here for you, let's talk about your needs" stuff is just not good. It really really doesn't help!
ok...sorry for the big old rant. I'm just frustrated I suppose.
Lat time Cowboy really was so nice. I don't know why I don't connect. It meas so much to me, that he comes out and says "Hello, my dear" and stuff like that. I mean...that's very casual, but it does help. It's those little tiny moments that I hang onto, and I feel that it is pretty pathetic, especially considering that I am not particularly attached to him in any personal kind of way. I mean, I like and respect him, and it's nice when he's nice to me...like it is for anyone, when anyone is nice to them...that's about it.
He siad " I think it is intriuging that you don't know if you and your husband love eachother or not..."
What does that mean?
I think I've figured something really crucial out. two things actually! One, is too personal to talk about here. The other, is that the relationship of therapy seems to work really well for me in terms of the level of support/interest/care that I need to feel ok about myself, and like there *is* someone who cares- for about 4 months...3 or 4 months. After that, I think (from my limited experience with this) that the therapist loses that spark of "interest" in "someone new-" and gets very bored with me- and I feel that, and lose interest in the process myself. At least this is the way it played out with Guru, and now, I think- Cowboy. My parents were incredibly bored and disinterested in me...my mom still is. She has absolutely no curiosity about me or my life, or my kids- at *all.* I think it just triggers me. Cowboy yawns a lot. He says it is because he is hungry.
Ok so that is something I should talk about next time, right? But it's the same old issue that I had with guru- yarg! He is starting to be like...."what would you like to talk about today" and I swear, it is *plot* against me! There is nothing I want to share- I need it drawn out of me, otherwise it feels so totally pointless. I'm tired of forcing myself on people...it's the same thing with my H- he has no interest or curiosity about me at all. yarg! It really provokes a transference when people are like that. That's why it was working so well at the beginning, because Cowboy had a lot of questions, seemed very interested in me- and for some reason that just puts me at ease and makes me able to talk, and without the fear and the triggery stuff. This "I'm here for you, let's talk about your needs" stuff is just not good. It really really doesn't help!
ok...sorry for the big old rant. I'm just frustrated I suppose.
Lat time Cowboy really was so nice. I don't know why I don't connect. It meas so much to me, that he comes out and says "Hello, my dear" and stuff like that. I mean...that's very casual, but it does help. It's those little tiny moments that I hang onto, and I feel that it is pretty pathetic, especially considering that I am not particularly attached to him in any personal kind of way. I mean, I like and respect him, and it's nice when he's nice to me...like it is for anyone, when anyone is nice to them...that's about it.
He siad " I think it is intriuging that you don't know if you and your husband love eachother or not..."
What does that mean?
Beebs,
Sorry for not weighing in sooner on this thread, I'm on vacation right now and not posting nearly as much. I am glad that you have decided to continue. The boundaries are incredibly triggering, you know that I struggled with them throughout my work with my T. They're painful because they evoke so much of the pain and loss we experienced as children. But one of the ways in which we heal is to face and process the feelings that are evoked by the boundaries. One of the most difficult distinctions I had to learn was that my Ts keeping the boundaries was all about taking care of me and doing what was good for me, versus the deprivation I experienced as a child, which was because my needs were being neglected. It took a very long time, a lot of tears and a lot of struggle to be able to "feel" that truth.
I am sorry as I know that it can feel like that pain could never be worth it. But in the end, for me, I believe it was. That doesn't mean it will necessarily be true for you but I wanted to share that the process can be pretty painful even when everyone is doing everything right.
love, Aglet
Sorry for not weighing in sooner on this thread, I'm on vacation right now and not posting nearly as much. I am glad that you have decided to continue. The boundaries are incredibly triggering, you know that I struggled with them throughout my work with my T. They're painful because they evoke so much of the pain and loss we experienced as children. But one of the ways in which we heal is to face and process the feelings that are evoked by the boundaries. One of the most difficult distinctions I had to learn was that my Ts keeping the boundaries was all about taking care of me and doing what was good for me, versus the deprivation I experienced as a child, which was because my needs were being neglected. It took a very long time, a lot of tears and a lot of struggle to be able to "feel" that truth.
I am sorry as I know that it can feel like that pain could never be worth it. But in the end, for me, I believe it was. That doesn't mean it will necessarily be true for you but I wanted to share that the process can be pretty painful even when everyone is doing everything right.
love, Aglet
(((BB)))
I'm sorry Cowboy yawns when you are in session together. It makes me feel very sad for you that you feel as though he is not interested in you. Can you bring this to him?
You are probably right that it's the ups and downs of therapy. You know, sometimes I've thought that there were things my T was trying to tell me I couldn't have but it always seemed to be paired with a legitimate need. And the way he would phrase things would make me focus on the thing I couldn't have and I myself would invalidate the need for the thing I could have. I don't know if that makes sense.
Like for instance, when we had the "you don't care about me conversation". I was being all general and vague and couldn't really ask him if he cared about me. And, so then he was being general and vague in an attempt to get me to be direct. But I misinterpreted his indirectness as a message that wanting him to care about me was illegitimate. When that wasn't it at all. Or maybe, my needing him to care about me was really on two levels. I did really need to know he cared about me but I also wanted him to care about me THAT way. And, so, I had the legitimate desire and the other desire side by side and part of therapy for me has been sorting those two things out. I still don't know if that makes any sense.
BB, can you tell him that it would help you if he asked questions?
xoxo
Liese
I'm sorry Cowboy yawns when you are in session together. It makes me feel very sad for you that you feel as though he is not interested in you.
Can you bring this to him? You are probably right that it's the ups and downs of therapy. You know, sometimes I've thought that there were things my T was trying to tell me I couldn't have but it always seemed to be paired with a legitimate need. And the way he would phrase things would make me focus on the thing I couldn't have and I myself would invalidate the need for the thing I could have. I don't know if that makes sense.
Like for instance, when we had the "you don't care about me conversation". I was being all general and vague and couldn't really ask him if he cared about me. And, so then he was being general and vague in an attempt to get me to be direct. But I misinterpreted his indirectness as a message that wanting him to care about me was illegitimate. When that wasn't it at all. Or maybe, my needing him to care about me was really on two levels. I did really need to know he cared about me but I also wanted him to care about me THAT way. And, so, I had the legitimate desire and the other desire side by side and part of therapy for me has been sorting those two things out. I still don't know if that makes any sense.
BB, can you tell him that it would help you if he asked questions?
xoxo
Liese
(((( Beebs ))))
I've read your latest updates and have lots (naturally!) to say, but am in a bit of a rush right now, so just giving you a head's up that I'll be back later to reply properly. Hope you're doing ok today
LL
I've read your latest updates and have lots (naturally!) to say, but am in a bit of a rush right now, so just giving you a head's up that I'll be back later to reply properly. Hope you're doing ok today
LL
*Sigh* prepare for a long one Beebs
Well I’m glad to hear that you’re not thinking of quitting just yet! Good on you for hanging in there, despite how therapy is making you feel at the moment.
This is ringing bells in my head. Are you sure that’s what he is saying or are you interpreting some of his comments in light of the things GuruT said to you? If Cowboy IS intimating this, if I were you I’d be in there like a shot getting him to clarify exactly what he means. This kind of thing could really undermine your confidence in him and in therapy so I reckon you want to pull him up immediately on anything that sounds to you like it’s criticizing the way you are in therapy or suggesting that you’re wanting the ‘wrong’ things from therapy. That’s the only way you’ll know for sure whether it’s him or your projections and fears.
Ugh to Cowboy yawning a lot. Whether he is getting bored or not (and yawning itself is hard not to read as boredom or disinterest) yawning by a T is really triggery, he ought to know that – it sounds like he’s already explained himself or you’ve queried him about it, but if his reason is that he’s hungry, perhaps you could politely suggest to him that he feeds himself before your session? Lol Beebs, be a bit confrontational, it’s YOUR therapy and if something he’s doing is upsetting or annoying maybe he needs to know. (All part of ‘relationship building’.)
Beebs my T has a habit of doing this, he’ll throw out a statement like this (and has done about me and H) and I’m sitting there going wtf? is that a question? Am I to answer it? What does he mean? Is it a criticism, is he saying that I SHOULD know, or feel something, or whatever? In the end I’ve worked out that it’s what he’s actually thinking, a more or less neutral statement about what he’s perceived, and if I want to elaborate on it then I can. I don’t like it though, I’d much rather he asked an outright question that would tell me he actually WANTS to know something about me and my life, or makes a comment that’s TELLING me something about myself, instead I get these very confusing a propos nothing statements that sound like he’s just throwing something out there to get me talking, for the sake of it. How did you respond to this comment by Cowboy? Or did you just not say anything, not even asking him what he meant?
Oh I so relate to this, that empty anxious silence at the beginning of a session where T sits there waiting for me to come up with something, where it’s all about what I ‘want’ to bring in and I’m sitting there thinking, what I ‘want’ is for T to bring something to the session, some connection to what’s been said before, some thread of continuity that tells me he’s been paying attention and thinking about what things mean to and about me, and most of all QUESTIONS. But not just the ‘what do you want to talk about’ type questions, real questions that indicate he wants to know the answers, insightful questions that open up areas to talk about that I would be too afraid to bring up off my own bat… So maybe Liese has a good point there, perhaps you could ask him to ask you questions, explain to him how it makes you feel when you’re left sitting in your own pain and being expected to just trot it out at will?
These things you said that I’ve quoted, they are what really struck me. It’s exactly what I’m running into with my latest T, the realization that no matter what, he is only there for me for 50 minutes twice a week. No matter how messed up or out of control or in how much pain I might plunge myself into as a result of the therapy (or other things for that matter) – this guy is not going to be there outside of those two 50 minute slots. And that no matter what, the session is going to end at precisely THAT TIME. (Conversely, that means that at least there IS someone there for two 50 minute chunks of time, come hell or high water – so that’s the positive flip side, but at the moment that’s not cutting much ice with me ).
My whole life revolves around and is devoted to fixing my pain and my issues, it’s not something that I can trot out on cue in therapy and then shut off until the next session. But the sole reason I’m in therapy is because I can’t fix my own issues alone, so therapy then becomes the focus of my whole life. Man it’s like thinking about two hour long tv programmes I regularly watch, and imagining my whole life having to revolve around those two brief periods of time a week!!!!! (And not even EVERY week either!)
So at the moment I’m totally sympathetic to what you are talking about. For me, I don’t think I can keep pushing with this establishing a trusting positive relationship with T thing. I could grow old and die before that happens precisely because the time boundaries of therapy preclude it being real (for me), and the fact that at the end of the day, I’m just a client and not a person in whose life T will or even wants to, become involved.
But I’m not saying that therapy is no good or won’t help. I think it’s important, for me anyway, to see T in a professional carer capacity, someone who has skills and knowledge that can help me get to where I need to go, so that I can coincidentally experience him as caring and sympathetic, but on this kind of neutral detached level rather than in any kind of mutually emotionally satisfying way. I know that never in a million years will I develop any kind of true emotional dependency on my T, precisely because the limitations of the time boundary militate against it. So I’m finding now that instead of getting all screwed up about the nature of ‘our’ relationship and whether he cares or not, whether he’s able to meet my needs or not, I’m tending more to seeing how I can ‘use’ him to help me, how can I use whatever skills and talents and understanding he does have, to get me where I want to go. Sounds good on paper eh? actually it’s still just as painful and terrifying and frustrating and bringing up all my emotional needs and wants anyway, but so long as I can see it as being in my best interests to persevere I’m willing to keep going.
And in fact, in so doing, I suspect that closeness and intimacy and the experience of being genuinely cared about and understood will arise spontaneously and automatically over time. I guess what I’m trying to say is that maybe it’s not so important to have a deeply emotional connection to a T for therapy to be helpful. Well I hope so anyway, because otherwise I’m not going to get anywhere
Sorry Beebs this has all been about me, but I just felt like what you were saying resonated so much with my own position at the moment I had to comment.
LL
Well I’m glad to hear that you’re not thinking of quitting just yet! Good on you for hanging in there, despite how therapy is making you feel at the moment.
quote:Cowboy is starting to say the same thing Guru did- that it sounds like I am looking for something from therapy that I should really be asking my H to fill
This is ringing bells in my head. Are you sure that’s what he is saying or are you interpreting some of his comments in light of the things GuruT said to you? If Cowboy IS intimating this, if I were you I’d be in there like a shot getting him to clarify exactly what he means. This kind of thing could really undermine your confidence in him and in therapy so I reckon you want to pull him up immediately on anything that sounds to you like it’s criticizing the way you are in therapy or suggesting that you’re wanting the ‘wrong’ things from therapy. That’s the only way you’ll know for sure whether it’s him or your projections and fears.
Ugh to Cowboy yawning a lot. Whether he is getting bored or not (and yawning itself is hard not to read as boredom or disinterest) yawning by a T is really triggery, he ought to know that – it sounds like he’s already explained himself or you’ve queried him about it, but if his reason is that he’s hungry, perhaps you could politely suggest to him that he feeds himself before your session? Lol Beebs, be a bit confrontational, it’s YOUR therapy and if something he’s doing is upsetting or annoying maybe he needs to know. (All part of ‘relationship building’.)
quote:He siad " I think it is intriuging that you don't know if you and your husband love eachother or not..."
What does that mean?
Beebs my T has a habit of doing this, he’ll throw out a statement like this (and has done about me and H) and I’m sitting there going wtf? is that a question? Am I to answer it? What does he mean? Is it a criticism, is he saying that I SHOULD know, or feel something, or whatever? In the end I’ve worked out that it’s what he’s actually thinking, a more or less neutral statement about what he’s perceived, and if I want to elaborate on it then I can. I don’t like it though, I’d much rather he asked an outright question that would tell me he actually WANTS to know something about me and my life, or makes a comment that’s TELLING me something about myself, instead I get these very confusing a propos nothing statements that sound like he’s just throwing something out there to get me talking, for the sake of it. How did you respond to this comment by Cowboy? Or did you just not say anything, not even asking him what he meant?
quote:I need it drawn out of me, otherwise it feels so totally pointless. I'm tired of forcing myself on people.
Oh I so relate to this, that empty anxious silence at the beginning of a session where T sits there waiting for me to come up with something, where it’s all about what I ‘want’ to bring in and I’m sitting there thinking, what I ‘want’ is for T to bring something to the session, some connection to what’s been said before, some thread of continuity that tells me he’s been paying attention and thinking about what things mean to and about me, and most of all QUESTIONS. But not just the ‘what do you want to talk about’ type questions, real questions that indicate he wants to know the answers, insightful questions that open up areas to talk about that I would be too afraid to bring up off my own bat… So maybe Liese has a good point there, perhaps you could ask him to ask you questions, explain to him how it makes you feel when you’re left sitting in your own pain and being expected to just trot it out at will?
quote:The boundaries are great, and I like and appreciate them- and they also trigger me really badly. It's the distance, the unrealness of it all, and that the no matter how much I open up or pour my heart out, the other person remains unmoved...
And it hit me so hard that painful dynamic in the relationship where you pay them for their time- once again- that no matter what, no matter how bad, needy or painful a spot you are in- the T will abandon you right there when the 50 minutes of paid time are up. It's not their fault- it's the way it has to be. But it's excruciating, and humiliating to be "jolted" like that week after week.
These things you said that I’ve quoted, they are what really struck me. It’s exactly what I’m running into with my latest T, the realization that no matter what, he is only there for me for 50 minutes twice a week. No matter how messed up or out of control or in how much pain I might plunge myself into as a result of the therapy (or other things for that matter) – this guy is not going to be there outside of those two 50 minute slots. And that no matter what, the session is going to end at precisely THAT TIME. (Conversely, that means that at least there IS someone there for two 50 minute chunks of time, come hell or high water – so that’s the positive flip side, but at the moment that’s not cutting much ice with me
).My whole life revolves around and is devoted to fixing my pain and my issues, it’s not something that I can trot out on cue in therapy and then shut off until the next session. But the sole reason I’m in therapy is because I can’t fix my own issues alone, so therapy then becomes the focus of my whole life. Man it’s like thinking about two hour long tv programmes I regularly watch, and imagining my whole life having to revolve around those two brief periods of time a week!!!!! (And not even EVERY week either!)
So at the moment I’m totally sympathetic to what you are talking about. For me, I don’t think I can keep pushing with this establishing a trusting positive relationship with T thing. I could grow old and die before that happens precisely because the time boundaries of therapy preclude it being real (for me), and the fact that at the end of the day, I’m just a client and not a person in whose life T will or even wants to, become involved.
But I’m not saying that therapy is no good or won’t help. I think it’s important, for me anyway, to see T in a professional carer capacity, someone who has skills and knowledge that can help me get to where I need to go, so that I can coincidentally experience him as caring and sympathetic, but on this kind of neutral detached level rather than in any kind of mutually emotionally satisfying way. I know that never in a million years will I develop any kind of true emotional dependency on my T, precisely because the limitations of the time boundary militate against it. So I’m finding now that instead of getting all screwed up about the nature of ‘our’ relationship and whether he cares or not, whether he’s able to meet my needs or not, I’m tending more to seeing how I can ‘use’ him to help me, how can I use whatever skills and talents and understanding he does have, to get me where I want to go. Sounds good on paper eh? actually it’s still just as painful and terrifying and frustrating and bringing up all my emotional needs and wants anyway, but so long as I can see it as being in my best interests to persevere I’m willing to keep going.
And in fact, in so doing, I suspect that closeness and intimacy and the experience of being genuinely cared about and understood will arise spontaneously and automatically over time. I guess what I’m trying to say is that maybe it’s not so important to have a deeply emotional connection to a T for therapy to be helpful. Well I hope so anyway, because otherwise I’m not going to get anywhere
Sorry Beebs this has all been about me, but I just felt like what you were saying resonated so much with my own position at the moment I had to comment.
LL
Thank you so much, (((((AG, Liese, LL and Monte))))))) 
You guys are the best.
Ag your words really helped, because even though I've read about your struggles with the boundaries, I never really thought of it in the sense of old pain getting triggered by them for some reason. Pretty obvious, but for some reason I missed that connection...so it really does help to hear that the boundaries will trigger, since I always thought I would like a T with really tight boundaries and consistency, but I am finding that it is pretty painful, even though I don't have the attachment. I keep thinking that maybe my oldT (still much beloved) was just going easy on me since he knew how very much I had given over my heart to him. who knows. All I know is that with Cowboy, it feels like I hit a cold, hard wall every time I go in there. Every time, I think...maybe we can just sit here and make small talk...or I can leave...or... but then inevitably I am in tears and time is up, and...idk, it just feels really brutal, really cold. It literally feels like abuse- even though I know it isn't. It's just me.
Liese, you know- he does ask questions...really he does. He asks tough questions, and he really pushes me. So I don't know why I said he doesn't ask questions. Maybe it's that I don't like the questions he asks, ha,ha. It is hard. I'm trying real hard to be brave about it, but I do not like talking, and especially about stuff like that.
LL, when I read...this is going to be a long one, I felt so much delight.. I truly love your long posts, and especially when they are for me. (I'm selfish like that!) Your experiences and insights really help. ha, ha, that would really be something if I could just say "well than eat something before my session.." that is the kind of thing Guru T would have wanted me to do, he was always on my case about "using" him how I need to, and it made me feel really uncomfortable!!
you asked:
No as I remember it, I think I just said..." no, it's not intrigueing...it's sad and frustrating to not know my own mind, or the truth of situations." I can't remember what he said to that. It's just such intense conversation. jeepers. unreal.
((((Monte)))), you are right, it is absolutely delightful to see you! and your input is very much valued- and you are right, there is tremendous value in learning the "putting up with imperfection" thing, because it's a part of life. I think that I got pretty good at that with old T after awhile. That was a really painful lesson, but I did learn that even someone that has managed to gain more of your trust than anyone else ever has, will inevitable let you down- so I think I just don't go so trustingly to someone anymore. But some part of me trusts my old T, still, on a deep emotional level...but not so much the "adult" part of me. Rational me trusts Cowboy, very much- but emotional me...just doesn't want to connect with him, not because he isn't a nice guy, but just...what's the point? So it's hard for me to think about talking about the "relationship" with him, because- I guess even though I'm pretty emo with him- I am probably keeping him at arm's length, since I have no idea what he thinks about the idea of connection or...relationship in therapy. And...he just seems tough, and kind of skeptical of me, in a way. I've told him that I don't believe in my own emotions...or the pain- but the thing is, is that I kinda don't think he does either...and if that's true than...where does that leave me? I just don't know what his approach to stuff is. He's keeping his cards hidden about what he thinks of my issues, which to me means that he must be thinking something that he can't find a way to say...like how do you tell a client..."yeah you are right- you really are just a drama queen!" I find I'm having all the same issues with him that I had with Guru T...minus the emotional angst and the sadness and longing for "more." I don't long for "more" from Cowboy, like I did with Guru- ...but I *don't like therapy.* How can I tell if therapy is good medicine for a person like me, or not?
ambivalence seems to be the never-ending theme in therapy for me, and it just goes *nowhere.* I'd rather talk of other things, but it always comes up somehow.
blah.
Thank you so much for the thought-provoking responses..
much love,
BB
Ag your words really helped, because even though I've read about your struggles with the boundaries, I never really thought of it in the sense of old pain getting triggered by them for some reason. Pretty obvious, but for some reason I missed that connection...so it really does help to hear that the boundaries will trigger, since I always thought I would like a T with really tight boundaries and consistency, but I am finding that it is pretty painful, even though I don't have the attachment. I keep thinking that maybe my oldT (still much beloved) was just going easy on me since he knew how very much I had given over my heart to him. who knows. All I know is that with Cowboy, it feels like I hit a cold, hard wall every time I go in there. Every time, I think...maybe we can just sit here and make small talk...or I can leave...or... but then inevitably I am in tears and time is up, and...idk, it just feels really brutal, really cold. It literally feels like abuse- even though I know it isn't. It's just me.
Liese, you know- he does ask questions...really he does. He asks tough questions, and he really pushes me. So I don't know why I said he doesn't ask questions. Maybe it's that I don't like the questions he asks, ha,ha. It is hard. I'm trying real hard to be brave about it, but I do not like talking, and especially about stuff like that.
LL, when I read...this is going to be a long one, I felt so much delight.. I truly love your long posts, and especially when they are for me.
(I'm selfish like that!) Your experiences and insights really help. ha, ha, that would really be something if I could just say "well than eat something before my session.." that is the kind of thing Guru T would have wanted me to do, he was always on my case about "using" him how I need to, and it made me feel really uncomfortable!! you asked:
quote:How did you respond to this comment by Cowboy? Or did you just not say anything, not even asking him what he meant?
No as I remember it, I think I just said..." no, it's not intrigueing...it's sad and frustrating to not know my own mind, or the truth of situations." I can't remember what he said to that. It's just such intense conversation. jeepers. unreal.
((((Monte)))), you are right, it is absolutely delightful to see you!
and your input is very much valued- and you are right, there is tremendous value in learning the "putting up with imperfection" thing, because it's a part of life. I think that I got pretty good at that with old T after awhile. That was a really painful lesson, but I did learn that even someone that has managed to gain more of your trust than anyone else ever has, will inevitable let you down- so I think I just don't go so trustingly to someone anymore. But some part of me trusts my old T, still, on a deep emotional level...but not so much the "adult" part of me. Rational me trusts Cowboy, very much- but emotional me...just doesn't want to connect with him, not because he isn't a nice guy, but just...what's the point? So it's hard for me to think about talking about the "relationship" with him, because- I guess even though I'm pretty emo with him- I am probably keeping him at arm's length, since I have no idea what he thinks about the idea of connection or...relationship in therapy. And...he just seems tough, and kind of skeptical of me, in a way. I've told him that I don't believe in my own emotions...or the pain- but the thing is, is that I kinda don't think he does either...and if that's true than...where does that leave me? I just don't know what his approach to stuff is. He's keeping his cards hidden about what he thinks of my issues, which to me means that he must be thinking something that he can't find a way to say...like how do you tell a client..."yeah you are right- you really are just a drama queen!" I find I'm having all the same issues with him that I had with Guru T...minus the emotional angst and the sadness and longing for "more." I don't long for "more" from Cowboy, like I did with Guru- ...but I *don't like therapy.* How can I tell if therapy is good medicine for a person like me, or not? ambivalence seems to be the never-ending theme in therapy for me, and it just goes *nowhere.* I'd rather talk of other things, but it always comes up somehow.
blah.
Thank you so much for the thought-provoking responses..
much love,
BB
Dear BB,
I often think about ambivelence, as for me it's a stage of denial that I go into when I want to avoid certain things. I do it a lot in therapy, ie in breaks in sessions when things get really hard for me to contain and manage on my own I switch into ambivelent mode and can therefore trug along seemingly quite ok ...until I start to look insude and find that everything, all emotion and feeling is shut down just to get by. For me now, I recognise ambivelence as a sign that there is something to address - but not saying I always manage to do the addressing
Of course you are, whether it's to do with not knowing what he feels about the realtionship of not, you have been hurt from GuruT and arm's length will help to protect you and you will be wary of connecting. He maybe keeps his cards hidden because it is all about YOU and GuruT seemed to have an element of it being about him at times. I used to feel a bit the same with my T, I wondered what she thought of me cos she gave nothing away. Over the years I have realised that I can ask her if I am unsure of this and she will always be honest, but also just be being certain about her constancy and consistency has led me to know those answers myself.
I am sorry dear feathers that this is so hard for you. Could you ask him if he has seen any changes in you or feels that your sessions have or will benefit, as you are wondering whether therapy is the right way forward? Quite a brave thing to do, but it might be helpful.
Much love over to you Bebers,
starfishy
I often think about ambivelence, as for me it's a stage of denial that I go into when I want to avoid certain things. I do it a lot in therapy, ie in breaks in sessions when things get really hard for me to contain and manage on my own I switch into ambivelent mode and can therefore trug along seemingly quite ok ...until I start to look insude and find that everything, all emotion and feeling is shut down just to get by. For me now, I recognise ambivelence as a sign that there is something to address - but not saying I always manage to do the addressing
quote:I am probably keeping him at arm's length,
Of course you are, whether it's to do with not knowing what he feels about the realtionship of not, you have been hurt from GuruT and arm's length will help to protect you and you will be wary of connecting. He maybe keeps his cards hidden because it is all about YOU and GuruT seemed to have an element of it being about him at times. I used to feel a bit the same with my T, I wondered what she thought of me cos she gave nothing away. Over the years I have realised that I can ask her if I am unsure of this and she will always be honest, but also just be being certain about her constancy and consistency has led me to know those answers myself.
I am sorry dear feathers that this is so hard for you. Could you ask him if he has seen any changes in you or feels that your sessions have or will benefit, as you are wondering whether therapy is the right way forward? Quite a brave thing to do, but it might be helpful.
Much love over to you Bebers,
starfishy
Aaaagh. I am in pain and this thread is telling me everything I need to know to take the 1 step I need to address it. Thanks everyone for writing here and Monte - lovely to see you again.
I have been quiet over the past week or so as I am struggling so badly with T. Liese - you asked me last week what was going on - I just couldn't write about it. It was good 1 week with T saying all the right words straight out of the attachment rulebook, then this week she is too busy and has forgotten everything. And forgotten something big that she absolutely shouldn't have.
Basically T isn't showing me that I can trust her with our attachment and relationship and I have cancelled sessions and have isolated myself from everyone, and stopped talking and writing about it and feel ambivalence toward T (whom i am only in the first stages of attachment) and with childT who I am attached to. I don't even want to talk to childT. I haven't emailed either of them in a week - and that is unheard of!!!
I am processing. Everyone's thoughtful comments here have given me a lot to think about and most of it is relevant to me. As usual you guys have helped me out. - That is if I want to fix anything. Right now - I want to drop out of life rather than fix this because to fix this I have to confront T - and I don't want to.
Beebs, good luck with your progress out of this.
I have been quiet over the past week or so as I am struggling so badly with T. Liese - you asked me last week what was going on - I just couldn't write about it. It was good 1 week with T saying all the right words straight out of the attachment rulebook, then this week she is too busy and has forgotten everything. And forgotten something big that she absolutely shouldn't have.
Basically T isn't showing me that I can trust her with our attachment and relationship and I have cancelled sessions and have isolated myself from everyone, and stopped talking and writing about it and feel ambivalence toward T (whom i am only in the first stages of attachment) and with childT who I am attached to. I don't even want to talk to childT. I haven't emailed either of them in a week - and that is unheard of!!!
I am processing. Everyone's thoughtful comments here have given me a lot to think about and most of it is relevant to me. As usual you guys have helped me out. - That is if I want to fix anything. Right now - I want to drop out of life rather than fix this because to fix this I have to confront T - and I don't want to.
Beebs, good luck with your progress out of this.
((((BB))))
I know words really don't help. It's one of these things you are going to have to feel your way through. Sending you lots of big hugs and keeping you in my thoughts.
((((SOMEDAYS))))) Sorry you are hurting now and you and T aren't on the same page. It's always better to talk about it with T than to keep it hidden. I've learned the hard way.
xoxo
Liese
I know words really don't help. It's one of these things you are going to have to feel your way through. Sending you lots of big hugs and keeping you in my thoughts.
((((SOMEDAYS))))) Sorry you are hurting now and you and T aren't on the same page. It's always better to talk about it with T than to keep it hidden. I've learned the hard way.
xoxo
Liese
starfishy, Somedays and Liese...I was just comeing here to respond to your wonderful replies,, but my little guy is crying upstairs, so I must go! I will try to come back tomorrow...
thanks and much love,
beebs
thanks and much love,
beebs
Oh, I am sorry...i had to delete, I am not sure why...
apologies, all around
apologies, all around