Yeah my T has full on cried with me once. We were having a rupture and I finally told her the impact of her words or actions and how it affected me and it upset her that she had hurt me. I have referred to that a few times and said since that I mustn't be doing a good enough job as I haven't made her cry since then.

I never look at her face so wouldn't know if T was crying or not or had tears in her eyes. Sometimes I glimpse it but then to confirm it I would have to look again and i couldnt do that!

I wish I had offered to hug her when she cried that time. I was more freaked out that I had *caused* it. I was glad to see her real but I felt guilty a bit.

It was one time when I know i truly got through to her. My T tells me ad nauseum that she is human and bla bla - I said to her that day I really know that she felt something.

It happened over a year ago and I think I would react differently now. I think now I would offer to sit closer to her and to offer to hug her and to experience her sadness and tears and we could do it together. I think I would explore it more with her at the time.

I need to see her more emotional. I can read anger, I can anticipate anger a mile away and a week ahead of time, I can predict when she is sick, I know when she is tired and stressed - but i CANNOT see sadness or emotional feelings. Funny that.

Somedays.

Hi Cat... There were many times when I saw oldT get really teary to the point where he had to stop and blow his nose LOL. I took it as a sign of how much he cared about what I was going through and how much I meant to him. Guess I was wrong about that. He never shed a tear when during those last weeks he tortured me.

With my current T... I would get upset because he never seemed emotional about anything. I told him he was cold and unfeeling and had no empathy. he told me I didn't understand what empathy was and he was right. I had a skewed idea of it. But as I got to know him better I would see some emotion, not tears but obviously he would be pained or moved by something I was saying. Very recently I was telling him about C and then how I also lost a very favorite aunt just before C died and I saw tears in his eyes. Real tears and I was shocked. It really changed how I viewed him and he just felt warmer and more human after that.... well until today when he scared me shitless. Now I realize he was just being a good parent.

TN

I've seen my T get emotional a few times. The time that made the biggest impact on me was at the end of a session where we had been talking about a huge fight my SO and I had. He had said something to me that was so hurtful I completely exploded on him and then blurted out maybe the reason I was having difficulty with his statement was because of some CSA I experienced. He was clueless to this as I had never told him about it. T knows about it and when we were ending the session she bends way over in her chair, I can't see her face and she stays that way what seems like forever. I started to get scared. I wasn't sure what she was going to say, maybe like she had some incurable disease or something but then she looks up at me and says "I am so sorry. I am so sorry that happened to you." She looked really sad and it made me very uncomfortable. I had to look away or I would have started crying.

So ya, I guess they really are human. Scary but good.

Yes, my current T has responded to strong emotions in the room.

There have been occasions when I have been describing something traumatic and I have not been feeling sad and she has teared up. We had a conversation about it and it was suggested that she was responding to the sadness I couldn't express.

There was a time recently when she said she felt very strongly in a previous session that she wanted to put her arm around me. I have to admit, I was particularly moved by that admission.

I know what you mean about feeling like it's a clinical tool. I feel the same, not so much about emotion, but about self-disclosure. I was intensely suspicious of it and my T's motives. I didn't want to feel manipulated.

I wonder whether it's to do with the way we view ourselves? We question whether we are somehow worthy of other people's care, that we matter. Often in our young lives we've been presented with overwhelming evidence that we didn't matter - and then we construct a narrative around that in order to make sense of it. Usually that narrative is that we are at fault, or unworthy. I guess it makes sense that it's hard to believe that someone is being authentic, and even harder to accept that care.

I don't know if that makes any sense. I kind of just dumped a load of thoughts on to the screen!

Cat,
Your replay of the interaction gave me a smile.
Old T did cry, yes. Probably a handful of times in the off and on 10 years that I saw her. I only actually looked long enough to see it was "real tears" two times. The other times, (I also had a relationship with her shoes) but she had to get up to blow her nose so I assumed they were real tears. I felt guilty each time I knew she had cried. I felt like I should apologize and one time I actually did. I told her that I was sorry that I had made her upset, which then made her cry even more as she explained that she was human and showing emotion for what I had gone through b/c it hurt her to know that I had experienced that. That it wasn't "me" that made her cry.
I did feel awkward each time she got emotional. But then again, I feel awkward when anyone gets emotional, friend, stranger, whoever. Part of the stuff I'm working on...that it's ok for me to feel emotion, for other people to feel emotion and to not have to turn it off on command.
Haven't seen new T cry yet....I'll have to work on that lol.

(((Cat)))

T has teared up once that I've noticed. And once she actually cried a little. And there was a third time that she wasn't quite teary but there was a lot of emotion in her voice and I felt she was close to crying. I told her, "I'm sorry! I didn't mean to make you feel upset!"

And she said, "No, this isn't about me. I'm sorry that *you* are feeling that badly."

Anyway, all of those times were from when I was discussing SU thoughts/feelings. I've never cried in therapy (the closest I came was one time after the cancellation stuff had really upset me) so I felt a bit like an alien sitting there all dry eyed while T was "crying" over my stuff. I think I'm glad that she cared but I wondered why she did.

Yeah, I like to not acknowledge that my T feels stuff, because I feel bad for "making him" (yes, I am apparently very powerful). But, I know he does. I don't make very much eye contact when I'm upset, so I haven't seen him tear up, but I've heard it in his voice or even felt it in a squeeze of the hand or such that he can feel very deeply at times, in the context of our work. Obviously, also in the context of his own stuff and personal life. He does a pretty good job of staying neutral (not letting his stuff enter in the room), but empathetic, but I know he's a feeling human and that I can affect him, whether it is sharing in my pain or feeling hurt when I am yet again untrusting and pushing him away. I'm slowly learning that it's OK and safe to affect him. Maybe someday I'll be able to be mad at him and see he can feel something about that and it won't kill me either.

If the one I see ever has any emotion about what I say, I hope she continues to have the decency to keep it to herself. I can't imagine why she would, my stuff is not all that emotional or upsetting in the first place.

My T cries every so often. One time it was tears running down her face. She was hugging me and pulled back to wipe her tears. Normally, it is her that is handing me a kleenex. This time I handed her the kleenex and we both started to laugh and smile a bit.

Today, she teared up. I was telling her that for the first time in my life, the little girl had felt what should have been felt a long time ago... tended to, cared for, taken care of, accepted. This happened this week in session when I shared what I felt and what I needed from her(sort of a first for me). I've never felt that tended to before and accepted for my feelings and my needs. It overwhelmed me so good, over the top WOW. Eventually, I was dissociating from it. I didn't know what to to with all those good feelings.

Sorry didn't mean to make this about me. It's hard for me to open up here. I'm learning. This post might be a record for me in length of post!

Okay, I've got to ask. What are rollers?

Don't know if people are interested but I came across this article on therapists crying a while back and thought it was interesting.

Edit: Never mind I figured out rollers. I'm not having a clever evening.

I am in love with everything you guys had to say - thank you so so much for sharing your stories, and thoughts!

I'm having a very tough day, but I will respond tomorrow (and hope to hear more). There was some hard trauma stuff I went in to today... and I'm fragile and wordless right now. I feel sick and anxious.

T was very sweet today, as she usually is, she was very gentle with me. I think that gentleness comes from a feeling? Do you think so? I wish I could connect better, she connects so well with me and really feels present.

I'm so shocked how many here have seen/knew their T was emotional! I think I just block this stuff out. I hope I didn't offend my T.

quote:

There was some hard trauma stuff I went in to today... and I'm fragile and wordless right now. I feel sick and anxious.

I know that place (((Cat)))

Okay, I am back. Thank you for the hugs kmay!

So I had an update and a couple quick things to write back to everyone.

I think it's amazing that Ts have actually cried (fully) in front of some of us... I don't think I will ever experience that. I'm not sure. Sometimes I feel like my Ts are very removed, and today is one of those days where I am having a hard time. The past few days seeing my T have been very disconnected and confusing. She recommended we color together, or do something... because I keep telling her I'm having a hard time connecting. It's nothing she is doing different. Right now I feel like I've worn her out and... yea, it's one of those days. I feel like I showed a side of myself yesterday that I absolutely should not have. I really need her support and love and to lean on her right now... but she feels... gone.

It happens when I realize she is connected, and I feel like my conversation with her... I dismissed and pushed her away.

muff - That's interesting you stare at the clock, does it ever make you feel weird? When I'm emotional time goes by so fast, I didn't know... but when I started seeing my SE T I always thought sessions went so fast... about a year later she told me that I would be so dissociated and just say nothing. Meanwhile I thought I was talking a bunch... so when sessions go by fast I know I've been emotional... but sorta sat there. Does time run slow or fast when you are upset?

SD - It makes sense not to look again, I've had moments where I think my T is feeling something because I'll see her at her kleenex but truth be told my T blows her nose a LOT. Not in a gross way, but she has allergies and stuff so I always assume... that's her problem. She's so open though... so maybe. When I'm upset with her though... forget it LOL she's a stone cold killa! I don't think my SE T ever cried either. It is interesting you would offer to sit with her, my T... I don't think she would let me take care of her...

TN - I dislike OldT (sorry, I really do). I remember your struggle with feeling empathy and with your T... it was the trauma from being abandoned before, do you think so? I'm glad him crying made you see him as more human, that's sweet. I see my T as human too and even though I know she is a very feeling being... I somehow assume I am exempt from her feeling that towards me. Bleh. I'm just feeling all mixed up today.

Becca - Nice to hear from you! That's wonderful your T was able to say that and you could see her feel. I'm not sure if my Ts have said they are sorry I had to go through something, they might have... My T does say thank you for telling me. Which makes me feel awkward, why thank me for showing her like... horrible stuff?! I hope you were able to work out things with your SO, also. My T told me once that she's been through a lot, so it helps her be more empathetic... my SE T had been, too... so I think... it's less of a big deal to them... I don't know. Sorry to ramble..

Mallard - Very nice to meet you, sorry I haven't had a chance to say hello sooner. I've been suspicious of my Ts motives too!! And I think you are right that it really has to do with the way we view ourselves - that's wise. Believing authenticity is very hard, even if it's a logical known that it is authentic...

kmay - Thanks again for that hug and I'm glad my interaction made you smile. I'm such a smartass with my T, but she gets sassy too (I think more to mirror me). It's strange we all seem not to look at our Ts much when we are upset... shame, maybe? It is good to think of it as it wasn't us that "MADE" them feel but rather they feel because... humans do.


HIC - I'd apologize too if I knew my T was upset. My SE T had her voice change at times. I'm not sure if my primary T has... she gets very soft and sweet in her voice when I am upset... she stops taking notes and leans in a little. That in itself feels like something I want to apologize for, but it also reminds me of being contained. I'd wonder why my T felt too... it's hard not to apologize.

Non - Ah you are in the "making" them club too I see! I think you are right that it is a lot to do with the context in their lives. I'm glad he does a good job staying neutral, my T does too. My T reminded me last session (and it hurt badly for some reason) that I have been mad at her. I've been carrying guilt for that. I know my SE T felt when I was mad at her... it caused the demise of our relationship because it got her defensive and she got mad back. My worst fear. T is helping me with knowing her stuff is hers... but I take it as mine (I'm greedy like that!).

stoppers - Sometimes our stuff, even if we don't find it upsetting can be upsetting to others. I go in and out of the thought that my T showing emotion is good, and bad... that it can be respectful not to show emotion and that a T should be in tune to know that with each client. I hope your T is in tune with you there and continues her consistency for you.

RM - I've had my Ts hold me, or "extended hug" me and I think it does show that there is a lot of feeling. My T too says it helps, which is strange because I've always figured Ts would hate to touch me, because of what I've been through. I dissociate from good feelings too.. it's rough. Please don't apologize for making the post about YOu... what other perspective are you to have but your own?

Draggers - I love the word rollers (I'm glad you got it sorted out Mallard!). From what I've seen you describe of your Ts they seem very empathetic and sweet. Does your T ever have aversion to your hugging her? I think my T would consider that taking care of her, and I've definitely had the door slammed on that. I'm so glad your T cries with joy... I just remembered when I joined a community club about 2.5yrs ago my T got teary.

RT - I'm glad your PDoc was able to reference the poem in treatment, it is always good when we can come back to something that was so strong. I'm glad she was moved by the poem, I a poem for my T once that she was completely unphased by LOL, I'm not the best writer. I really hope it helped your PDoc during such a rough time, and it sounds like it did.

Monte - Thank you for the comment on the exchange, yes, my T is so warm and sweet. I am a bit rougher around the edges. I think seeing my T tear up would be emotionally powerful for me too - but it appears the times she has I've cut it out of my recall. It is interesting that you are focusing on accessing emotion right now... you know what my thoughts are on that? I think... Ts can't be emotional maybe until we can. My T models such... strength that I feel bad if I can't be strong. She follows me rather letting me follow her (or we're "beside" eachother if that makes sense) sometimes that is quite frustrating especially when I can't go to places emotionally.

Why do I feel out of touch somehow if my T doesn't connect to me like that? As I read... it's not that I feel jealous... but I guess it sort of is. I just feel broken, because I know my T isn't broken. I think it may be us feeling or not feeling that helps - I know when other people feel around me I can sense it and it calls up stuff in me. But that's me... I don't have formal training on repressing that LOL. If I did notice my T as more emotional... it would cause me to be more emotional too I think.

Well, as usual this was long.

Yes. My T has cried in front of me because of something I wrote about my experience of my trauma. It was incredibly moving and I thanked him. Then I offered him a tissue!

DBS - I'm glad it was a moving experience for you, that is wonderful! It's amazing how touched we can be by the emotions of others...

Hmmm, muff, I wish my time ran slower, but i guess that prolongs agony... I feel like I'm missing my therapy when it goes too fast. It's like nothing happens during that time. Things rarely slow down for me. Can I ask if you have anxiety at all? My life is sponsored by anxiety, there isn't a cell in my body not running 100mph.


I'm feeling like there is something crazy wrong with me. Sigh.

Cat-
I can see how this can be amazing yet scary at the same time.. I have seen/heard emotion in this Ts voice. Its comforting yet I am afraid to call him on it, what if I just misunderstood...

He told me last week, have you realized you have never cried in here? It's ok you know that don't you? I'm like it has only been a few months, you wont get that close.

Question: Did you feel safer knowing she had "emotions" with you?

Take care!

Hi Ang -

Do you want to cry in your therapy? I didn't, well, I couldn't. I still can't sometimes, especially when I really wish I could. It took me a couple years before I could. My T has always encouraged me to express emotion, when I have it... she tries to make me aware of pushing them down I guess more than anything.

I think it might be good to call out your T and see what is up. This is coming from someone who doesn't let their T get away with much... poor T...

Ummm good question about feeling safer... you know I actually feel really safe with my T regardless. Knowing she had emotions wasn't a surprise, just something I wasn't really willing to acknowledge (out of my own self-hatred I'm sure). I feel closer in a way, and realize I've probably experienced her feelings on an intuitive level (like still connected deeply, even if I didn't knowingly see or feel her attunement). Talking about it did make me feel safer if it comes up, I think... in the future if it ever does. I would feel it probably wasn't "my fault" that I could really give in to just feeling. So... yea, this was a long answer but I guess it does make me feel safer in a way.

Cat & Monte,

I think you're onto something! This mirroring of emotion--or lack thereof--may explain the disconnect that happened between me and my T. It's almost impossible for me to show emotion in session, so I experience it all at home, by myself, and when I report back to T (cold and factual reports), I'm distressed (inwardly) that she seems so flat and unaffected by my suffering.

But I don't know....Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part Something new to think about, anyway.

RabbitEars

Hi Monte. Yeah, I haven't heard T's "concerned" voice in a long time... I guess she's tired of hearing about my feelings instead of witnessing them? I can't help it; I don't know how to let them out in front of another person, especially when that other person becomes increasingly impatient with me Massive negative transference going on, I think.

RabbitEars

Good morning!

muff, how did you get over the anxiety? I take a considerable amount of medication for mine. I meditate often (during yoga), do art, have calming things around me... but it seems more physical. Sometimes it doesn't matter the amount of stuff I take to get to sleep I literally cannot.

Monte, that's interesting your T said something similar... I can't remember if mine has. So... he feels something about your indifference? I am not sure if my T does... she says I'm a good "reporter" and... I've found for me it just... sucks for lack of a better term because then I just have to repeat myself later My T is genuine too, but I think she tracks me and stays congruent to how I am. It makes sense what you're saying about with picking up your kids. When your T does sound concerned do you cry?

RE, Yes! It causes disconnect between my T and I too. I think... maybe she doesn't want me to feel BECAUSE of her? I just... don't know. Why do you think you are distressed by her non-response? Are you more distressed about that then the content you're talking about do you think? I'm sure your T isn't tired of you I hope not anyway, it's good to ask about that stuff not that a T would say they are tired of you, but may give you a different approach? Sorry about the negative transference, been there.

Draggers - Aw, a rugby tackle! That's kind of cute, actually... my T is so adverse to me taking care of her, I think so anyway... because of my history (I'm assuming your T feels similarly, but I'm not sure). I don't know... this is interesting how talking with people here has made me so unsure if my T shows emotion or not, but I know she does...?? I dunno... this weekend has been hard.

I'm feeling so disconnected from my T this weekend, even talking about this. I wish I understood. I feel just super far away from her and I'm starting to turn from thinking it's just... me or something to it being her and permanent. We're trying and at the end of session on Friday I felt safe, gentle, calm for several hours... then it disappeared. She has been so attuned lately I wonder if she's giving up... but from our exchange it doesn't sound like it?

Ugh... I feel like I've burned her out and made her angry but I know at least the making her angry part is likely not true. Sigh... I know what this is. Every time I feel close, or worry about being close, or want to be close, or wish I could move closer... I resist and have to freak out in order to feel "safe" but I feel way less "safe" right now.

My T does the concerned talking to me and it does help a lot, even if she doesn't... she still helps. I think when she is very gentle with me it locks in to a younger part of me somehow. Hm. So much to ponder.

quote:

normal internal ebb and flow of human connection

I love being accused of being normal (for once!). You're right... I do think I read too much in to and outside of it also. I wish I could "let go" and not be consciously aware sometimes (can definitely relate to your tipsy thread there).

Aw I'm glad you had some good connection with your T this week. If I'm embarrassed or feeling too much I sort of shake my hands out and swear or say my face is leaking, etc.

You've helped me so much with this, thank you!!

I might have made my T cry today but I was so far shut down and in a bad place I didn't look at her.

SD - I hope whatever happened with/in T can be resolved!

I spoke with my T today, and she suggested to help me feel connected (because my T claims to have positive feelings about me - which, I know are true... for her LOL) and reminded that things are okay, that we make an index card. I have a couple around my house that say... different things on them. For whatever reason I'm terrified about being rejected by my T for some recent disclosures I've made, plus some changes going on. My poor T... she's moved her hours around and such so I know must be dealing with more than a handful of her clients going bananas.

Just to know something about my T... she'd never write something like "T cares about you" "T believes you". She does not work like that. It would need to be written "I am cared about", "I am valued" or "I am truthful" (or "I speak my truth" [which is already on another card]). T will say her feelings in session, at times (like we're discussing here), but as far as a "take home message" it is about me, not about someone else in regards to me.

So... that kind of blows. It makes it hard because the positive feelings for myself aren't there. I'm sure T will suggest some. Can anyone objectively see, in my words here, of what may be useful? Or any other ideas? Things you'd want to be reminded of?

I have a right to feel all my emotions.

How about "I know what I need better than T does"

Murf - good idea!

RE - Sadly, my T would find that a completely hilarious and therapeutic thing to write at the same time. Because its saying "I know what I need" which may work... Or likely something about not judging myself. Blerg. Having to even type stuff like this is hard. Most of the time when my T gives me a mantra I give her a hard time.

I don't know if "positive statements" help, but I think they have in the past its just embarrassing to talk about with anyone!!

MURF: a cross between a smurf and a muff.

The last index card I got from my T (she does that too) says

"I can accept that I am significant enough in the world that I affect some people in a way that is sometimes positive sometimes negative, and sometimes indifferent."

We have been going through a lot of my coping mechanisms and I've been talking about how I do this dance to keep everybody happy and I worry constantly if I've said or done something to make someone (T) mad at me.

I keep reading it. So far I'm still worried about making people mad at me.

Jillann

Murf - which I will now probably never stop using - I blame the mistake on my iPhone and the fact I was literally getting my hair dyed purple at the salon when I wrote it.

Jillian - I really really love what you and your T came up with! That is way too vulnerable to tell my T.... But maybe for next time did it help you??

She ended up writing something from her, to me. Rather than an affirmation of sorts (though, it still is... it's something that I need to tell myself, also). It was very connecting and affirming to have something to *hold on to*.

I'm resisting feeling so many of my own emotions (for get T's... I can't even figure out my own)... I don't feel like I deserve to have my feelings because my T has been through so much of her own stuff, that everyone has their own stuff... so I shut down and get so mad at myself

Then I realize... and try to remember that I can be so compassionate with people who have been through the things I have, or the things I haven't but that I can relate... etc. I assume my T's feelings are that she's exhausted... seeing 100s of people, including herself, through the exact same stuff... it feels like I should be over my 'stuff'.

Sigh... she is really helping, asked what I needed, or what changed (nothing) just me... me me me.

Anyway, it was a very sweet 12 word message that made me feel warm and fuzzy

Sorry for the update.

Awww Cat - I'm glad you got warm fuzziness from T!

Jillann