Hi Becca,
I am wondering, what does the wanting or longing "feel" like? If you can explain it?
I used to feel constantly like something was missing inside of me. Like there was literally a hole in my chest and sometimes it felt like the hole moved to my stomach where I needed to fill it with something. I did discover through therapy that it was a longing for a mothering, nurturing care that I did not recieve when I needed it most as a child. I don't know that the feeling will ever completely go away, but some things have definatley helped fill the void...my children being the biggest part. Can you describe the longing? Can you feel it physically somewhere? Or is there certain environments or situations that bring the longing feeling more to the forefront?

I don't know if this is what you experience Becca, but I used to get this empty, clawing sensation in my chest of extreme longing. Like kmay, it turned out to be a very young part of myself longing for love and nurturing. When I started to learn how to soothe that part of myself and give it love, the feelings began to dissipate and come up less frequently.

I'll be interested to hear how you investigate this and what you decide.

Hi Becca,

I get the longing feeling too. I understand it to mean that I want something from someone that they are not giving me. They might not know I want it but whatever the reason is, they are not giving it to me.

There is a part of me that thinks that this person is the only one who can give it to me. Hence the longing. And that I am NOT capable of taking care of myself or getting it for myself.

For instance, I have a very close friend. If I ask her to do go to the movies and she says no or doesn't give me an answer, I go into the longing phase. She's really the only friend I feel comfortable asking to go to the movies with. So there's this thing I want to do, the movies, and there is only this one person I think can give it to me, my friend, and then I just get stuck right there.

Now when I feel those feelings, I pull myself back and ask what it is that I want, who do I want it from, do I really need it and can I get it from somehwere else?

Of course, I LOVE to go to the movies. But I don't NEED to go to the movies. The truth is I'm bored out of my skull. So, I'm adding things to my life that make me feel less bored. This friend no longer holds this "power" over me that she once did, as the only person in the world who likes me and can make me happy.

I still love her and she's still part of my life but the dependency is no longer there as much as it was.

Does any of this make sense?

Interesting you mentioned the movies Liese. I
waited and waited for years to have a friend to
go to the movies with to no avail. I didn't go
for years as a result. T eventually got me to
believe I didn't NEED to go with anyone to
enjoy the film and I went on my own. It was
scary at first - going, not the movie; but I
did enjoy it. We can wait to be given those
things we feel we need or we can go sone way
to giving them to ourselves
I know it doesn't always work but sometimes
you can surprise yourself!!

quote:

When I started to learn how to soothe that part of myself and give it love, the feelings began to dissipate and come up less frequently.

Hi BLT... can you explain more about how you do this or how you learned to do this??

I do have that empty, aching void inside of me that can feel ovewhelming at times and nothing seems to work in filling it. It's like I really really need something... but I'm not sure what that is. It does not happen as often as it used to and I'm thinking that it was as kmay said. It's that longing for the attachment love and nurturing that we didn't get as kids. I am FINALLY starting to feel this from my T and to be able to take this in and that empty needy feeling has lessened but not entirely gone away. Maybe in time it will? OR maybe it never will completly go away. I'm not sure.

Great question Becca.

TN

quote:

Hi BLT... can you explain more about how you do this or how you learned to do this??

Umm, I can try.

The first and most basic thing I learned to do was to talk to my baby ego states like you would to actually soothe a real baby. I mean, actually out loud. This was kind of out of desperation. Also, I was listening to one of the Julie DiJoseph CD's (that I've talked about before) and she taught something called the "Sa-Cha" sound. Basically you softly repeat (out loud) the sounds "sah" and "cha" in a random order over and over. In practice this sounds a lot like a sound you might make to soothe a baby, and I found it actually helped me feel better, weird as it is.

The second thing was learning how to settle my anxiety using body-based techniques. This doesn't totally get rid of the longing feelings, but it takes the edge off, because feeling stressed and anxious tends to fire up the whole attachment system. If you're interested in learning the same stuff I used, again you could try the Julie DiJoseph CD's or maybe check out Shrinklady's program (no, I'm not being paid to talk it up on the forum).

The last part of it had to do with learning about IFS (Internal Family Systems) which has a lot to do with learning how to stay in "Self" which is the best, most whole, wisest part of you while connecting with other parts of yourself compassionately at the same time. If you want to know more about it, you're welcome to PM me. I have facilitated a little IFS work with a couple of forum members, and I'm not really an expert but I think it was fun and a learning experience on both sides...

I just had one more thought about this before I have to run off.

For those of us who seem to have a LOT of trouble connecting with, soothing, or even LIKING our smallest parts or ego states, it usually means there is ANOTHER part of us that doesn't like those parts and it's getting in the way. So we've got the needy part that needs something, then the counter-dependent part whose job it is to keep the needy part from asserting itself or getting what it wants. The only way to get to the needy part is by first working with the part that is protecting against it. IFS would be a good way to achieve that, but I'm sure there are lots of other ways as well.

I think you should leave it up, B2W. You wrote beautifully!

I too have been thinking a lot about that wanting, needy part of me that just won't go away. I know where it comes from but can't make it disappear. I don't have a traumatic past..and still have this unquenchable neediness. I did experience times where I felt like I had to hide my needs because of my brother's overwhelming medical needs and almost death. My parents didn't mean to miss my suffering/anxiety/whatever, but they were so busy with him for years. So yeah, I was not abused but I too struggle with this neediness that can't be filled. I have been doing IFS work with my T on the neediness part (child part), but I don't know where to go. I feel so stuck too. I know exactly why I have it, why I feel ashamed of it, and why I feel like I am constantly annoying her with it. I wish I had some answers. It's comforting to know others struggle with it as well...I know I have had a different upbringing than some of you, so I hope I haven't offended anyone or minimized your experiences. If I have, I can delete my post, no worries at all.

Becca,
I agree with everyone else that this feeling of longing is due to the unfulfilled needs of childhood. When our need for love, attention and attunement is not met when we are children, these needs to do not dissappear, then only go underground. This leaves us with an unconscious life-long quest to get those needs met. I also believe that this longing is a reverberation down the years of our early relationships, when we endured the deprivation of not having our (very reasonable, normal and human) needs met.

I struggled with those feelings for a long time (and still can at times when something gets triggered) and also wondered why I still felt so unfulfilled even after being in a committed relationship for years, decades even. There were two major dynamics going on for me. The first was that I was so scared of being too close to someone, since my early relational experience taught me that getting close meant getting hurt, I would unconsciously find ways to create conflict when I got too close to provide an excuse to keep myself "safe" by moving away. But this meant I consistently stood too far away to get my here and now needs met. The other problem was that SOME of our unfulfilled childhood needs are impossible to meet. The time has passed during which it can happen. So we meet someone who holds out the promise of finally loving us well enough to fill that longing only to realize that they can't (no one can) and so we move on, continuing our hopeless quest to find someone, anyone, to fill us up.

I do believe there is a way to heal from this, at least well enough that it stops interfering with our ability to live fully and get what we need now and it would include all of the great suggestions you've gotten on this thread. I wrote about it on my blog and include the link in case you might find it helpful: How Do I Fill the Void?

Erica,
Just a quick aside, you do NOT need to be actively abused to have this kind of emotional fall out. Its the disconnect of not having a loving caretaker who is attuned, attentive and meeting your needs that does the damage. This can happen for many reasons, including what you said of your family, that you had a brother who needed so much attention that you were neglected. In my own life, despite the fact that my father sexually abused me, I feel the worst damage was done by the things I didn't get rather than what was done to me.

~AG

(((Erica))

I found nothing offensive about your post. It was very relevant and sensitive.

(((B2W)))

Glad you reposted. Hope you don't delete again. You said a lot of good stuff.

Thank you everyone for your input. I received insight from each and every post.

The wanting does feel like an ache in my bones. I try so hard not to feel it but sometimes that isn't possible. I do know it has been more prevalent the past couple of years because of the stressors I have been dealt.

I don't want to think that it is something I didn't get earlier in my life, but I probably would be kidding myself. Somewhat like Erica, I didn't have family abuse issues. I also didn't have sick siblings that took my parents attention. I want to believe my mom was a good mom and in many ways she really was, but deep down I do believe there was this disconnect with me. I don't know why but I have often felt like she was afraid of me, didn't know how to handle me. I don't think I was what her fantasy of a daughter was. I always knew I couldn't tell her my fears or thoughts and it was nothing that was said out loud, I just knew.

As I have mentioned on my posts in the past, I have been in therapy off and on for many years. I have tried like hell to avoid this topic with T, even though she has tried to get me there, but I can't anymore. It is central to who I am or who I should be. My mom was a good person, I know that with all my heart, she just didn't or couldn't for whatever reason connect with me.

Again thanks to all who responded. AG, I did read the blog post and it was very helpful. I want to be brave enough to do this work. It needs to be done.

Becca in some ways the hardest part of this work is facing that you need to do it. You are further along than you think. Some people never reach this point (and honestly, can't blame them).

And insecure attachment happens for a lot of reasons, sometimes its just that a mother herself was not securely attached and so she didn't learn what she needed to form a secure attachment with her children. I agree that it doesn't mean you're mother didn't love you and try to do her best. We cannot give that which we do not have. Its why healing can be so important, it breaks the chain on passing the problems on to the our children.

I wish you courage and strength as you face this Becca.

Thanks for the reassurance AG and Liese. I really appreciate it.

Becca- I have also tried to avoid this issue in my therapy. It's taken me over 2 years to be able to really talk about my neediness, and even now I feel so uncomfortable and annoying bringing it up. I don't know if you struggle with this issue, but I feel unworthy...unworthy of being in therapy for so long when my childhood wasn't that bad and also (for me) feeling my needs were unworthy and annoying and not as important as my brother's. It's something I carry with me in my current life and I have fought the attachment with my T for awhile. The last thing I want to be is needy....but deep down, I know that's what I want and need (I need to feel needy, ha). But being so exposed and vulnerable and talking about my neediness is SO uncomfortable. I will say that my T has not made me feel silly or annoying, but she also isn't super reassuring that I'm worthy and not annoying either. I wish she would be more vocal about that, but I guess she's trying to have me figure it out. I think it's a really good thing to discuss in therapy. And likely, it'll be an ongoing conversation. I wish I could be more reassuring for you! But I'm in the middle of this work in my own therapy...and have been feeling lots of shame around it this past week. Good luck though. I'd love to hear about your experiences when/if you decide to talk about this wanting that you have.

erica, I'm really glad you responded to my post. I, like you, feel extremely unworthy of feeling like I do. So many other people have had it so much worse and when I think of that I start to believe I am just whining about something small. But it isn't small, it consumes me, it doesn't let me go all the way in, in my relationship. Quite frankly, it is probably going to doom my relationship, if I don't figure this out.

My T is pretty good about reassuring me, but I want her to push me a little more. I always tell her she is too damn patient with me.

erica, I hope you get to go where you need to with this. I do understand how you feel and again I am glad you responded. We sort of come from a confusing and somewhat similar place.

AG, thank you for your thoughts and reassurance. I am really glad you have been available to post again. I learn so much from you. Thank you.

quote:

I will say that my T has not made me feel silly or annoying, but she also isn't super reassuring that I'm worthy and not annoying either.

Hi Erica and Becca,
It's very common for people who have suffered neglect rather than active abuse to minimize what happened to them or believe that it is not legitimate for them to be in pain or get help. (I actually think that it can be harder to heal from emotional neglect because of this struggle). But the truth is that not being attended to communicates very strongly to a child two lies: they do not matter and their needs are out of control. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Which also brings me to what Erica said about her T. They could reassure us and say what we want until the cows come home but we won't really believe them. Repeated experience is what actually changes our belief. So instead of telling you that you are worthy and annoying, she is just treating you the way you deserve because you are worthy and you are not annoying. It's the actions that get us in the end, but it takes a lot of time for us to have enough experiences to offset the one's we had in childhood.

You both are worthy of attention and time and having your needs met and getting what you need to heal.

AG

PS Becca thank you for the warm words. Not sure how often I'll be around, but am trying to pop in now and again. Its nice to be back.

quote:

Originally posted by Becca:
But it isn't small, it consumes me, it doesn't let me go all the way in, in my relationship. Quite frankly, it is probably going to doom my relationship, if I don't figure this out.

Becca, can you say more about this? I am just asking because I think I feel so similar to you, if I'm understanding you. I have a lot of difficulties with relationships, letting myself become totally vulnerable and dependent, to an extent. I don't want that other person to see that I'm needy. I don't want him to see me at all, really. What do you think is keeping you from letting you go all the way into your relationship? If this is too personal, I totally understand if you'd rather not post on a public forum. Just read your words and thought I could relate.

AG - thank you so much for taking time to respond to me. I've been reading some of your blog and it's so insightful. You're so insightful. Thanks for your reassuring words. I think I need to hear them!

Erica, sorry I haven't responded until now. I was visiting said relationship because at the moment it is long distance and I like it that way. I'm bad and I know it.

I don't think I would be able to handle an everyday relationship very well. I don't go all the way in because I feel I would be overwhelmed. I don't believe I could protect myself enough to be comfortable. By protecting I mean, I won't make my needs known, so after awhile I will get run over. Does that make sense?

I get the part of wanting to not be seen. I feel there is no way if he sees the real me, it would be something he would want. Now maybe I am not giving him enough credit but we have never lived together. He will eventually get tired of my inability to commit and move on. I have been asked to get married by him, more times than I could ever count. I can't pull trigger and am losing hope that I ever could.

I used to think I might be able to get over this hurdle but I'm not sure lately. This relationship has not made my wanting any less and until I figure where the wanting comes from I think I going to be stuck. I've decided I am going to try to be brave enough to try and figure it out for one last time. I called T and told her I was ready to tackle it and needed to tackle it to consider my life somewhat successful.

Sorry for rambling Erica, I hope I made some sense.

Hi Guys,
I hope you don't mind my chiming in again. Becca all the struggles that you are talking about in your relationship, especially about not wanting the real you to be seen because they'll leave and the getting run over because you can't make your needs known, could have been written by me at one time. The not letting anyone in because they would leave was one of my deepest seated life-long fears. I do want to encourage you that I have worked through all of this in therapy (not to the point that the fear doesn't still occasionally rear its head, but I can deal with it much faster so that I can tolerate real intimacy). As a result, my relationship with my husband (27 years) is better than it has ever been.

I did this by dealing with these feelings as they came up between my T and myself. I had to keep expressing these fears and what it felt like and work through it to realize why I felt that way. These fears were based on lies that I learned from being abused.

So just the fact that you realize these dynamics puts you way ahead, now you just need to start talking about these feelings in therapy especially if you are feeling them for your T. Moving closer to my T, allowing him to see the real me, learning to tolerate being vulnerable with him is what has allowed me to move closer to everyone else in my life.

AG

PS There are reasonable fears based on your experience NOT some fundamental flaw in you. You just need to learn the truth, not be "fixed."

AG, thanks again for helping with this. I do feel this way with my T. I actually wear a hat to every session, I guess to sort of hide from her. I know she notices this but she never asks about it. We have had discussions regarding my fear of her kicking me out because I am a bother. She assures me that isn't the case but it is very hard for me to believe that. I have told her she scares me because she knows more about me than anybody ever has. That is hard for me to handle.

That being said, I know I need to talk more honestly with her. I intend to do that. I am tired of the wanting.

Hey Erica, thanks for replying. No worries about the time replying back, your therapy sounds like it is making you work overtime dealing with it. Mine is kind of putzing along because at the current time, I am only going once a month due to money issues. It is really hard to make any progress at this rate but I have been trying to do a lot of work in between on my own.

Keep sticking with yours, it will be hard but I think you will eventually reap the rewards. Take care.