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Lately, in an effort to stop being mean to myself Roll Eyes, I have been trying to view my shame about needing to connect with my T differently. In my last session I brought up my fear that she would see my need for frequent sessions as unhealthy dependency on her. Her response surprised me - she said it was not about dependency and that frequent sessions are ideal because it is easier to stay connected when we see each other more frequently. She also said it was also her feeling that therapists tend to wish more people would schedule frequent sessions, but it is not something most put out there because there are lots of issues around it, including time and money. So that started me thinking.....

In the past, I have felt like when I wanted to contact her between sessions, or schedule more frequent sessions, or felt connected to her in session, I felt instant shame and shut down. I have always associated this with weakness and neediness. (recently learned from AG that the shame is more likely a coping mechanism we developed in an effort to avoid feeling rejected for having a need in early in life) I also feel angry with her fairly often in response to something she says or does in session or something I think she might be thinking, and want to shut down and close her out in anger - of course it is always me I end up punishing. For example, when she was recently on vacation and we had scheduled some phone calls, I found myself wanting to withdraw and not call or not answer her call because I was feeling anger and shame and didn't need her or anyone else. Sound familiar?

Lately, I have been trying to not give into that way of thinking and most importantly not behave in ways that can reinforce that pattern for me. So, I did call her and told myself that I was taking care of myself. I also find myself wanting to cancel sessions for the same reason, and I have this huge fear that I will just suddenly stop going - usually when I am feeling really exposed about something. So far I have only canceled twice, but the fear is there.

So blocking out the messages that tell me I am weak and needy feels healthy on one hand because I am not listening to those self-depreciating voices, but on the other VERY LOUD SIDE, I hear you are so weak for being so needy and for giving into it and now you are making excuses for it by calling it healthy.

So, I guess what I am wondering is if I am making excuses for giving into my being weak and needy or if I am really taking care of myself.

Would like to hear others' experiences if anyone wants to share.
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HI Seablue,
I don't have a lot of time right now but you are not being weak and needy, choosing to move towards connections IS a healthy choice. Yes, you have needs, but that's because they were never met. My T has a great analogy when I brought up neediness, he said it's like not feeding a child all day and then chastising them for saying they're hungry or turning off the heat in the winter and acting like something's wrong with someone complaining they're getting cold.

I really struggled with these issues and I have more to say (SURPRISE! Big Grin) so I'll be back later, but I wanted to reassure you in a more timely manner. I think you're doing something very difficult and should be proud of yourself, actually.

AG
seablue

I am glad you have been brave enough to ask for extra sessions and that your T gave them to you. I think the extra sessions are useful for makng connections, staying with them and then keeping safe and supported, but having had the offer and accepted extra sessions myself, I know exactly how that can make you feel needy and shameful. But she definitely wouldn't have offered if she hadn't felt they were beneficial. I always think well that's one session closer to it all being over Smiler

And as for the wanting to cancel - yep I've done that too. Usually just when I needed most not to as well! I think we have been used to bein so let down by important people in our lives in the past, it feels easier sometimes now to be the first to walk away from something, however safe and supported, rather than risk being let down again. I don't know if that's how it is for you seablue, but I often get that urge to run because of it.

So well done for blocking out those old messages and taking care of yourself in this way. It will feel scary and strange because it goes against what you normally do, but be proud of yourself for asking - yea!!

starfish
Hi SB... I too have struggled with those feelings. I have also requested extra sessions when I have needed them, although it was REALLY hard to ask for them. I remember remarking to my T that I felt like I was being overly needy and too dependent on him and he told me that if he felt that this was happening he would talk to me about it but that this was not so and he was glad that I called and asked to see him because it meant that I was asking for what I needed and that I was taking care of myself by doing that. It was immensely reassuring to hear that from him. He also will occassinally tell me as I'm leaving that I should call if I need to see him before the following week... this is usually after a particularly difficult session where I have revealed something huge. He is pretty sensitive to that.

So I would say that you are definitely taking care of yourself and should feel no shame or worry about doing it. It just feels uncomfortable because it is unusual for us to be doing this for ourselves. I would say you are definitely making progress.

Oh and... I do have a habit of punishing myself by denying myself contact with my T when I most need it. I am really trying to break that old habit. It's like my parents aren't here to do it so I take on the job myself.

TN
Seablue well done you for taking the stance that it’s caring for yourself! I fall into the other camp - my messages are such that whatever I do for myself IS being weak and needy and bad - haven’t got an internal voice that says caring for myself is a good thing (in fact the opposite, it’s BAD in big capitals). So it’s really good to read that you’re fighting the same kind of negative messages and letting yourself see getting something you need as a positive good thing.

AG said it well in her post - going for something you need IS looking after yourself. I really take issue with our societal dictate that says being ‘needy’ is somehow weak and bad. It’s not just messages in our own heads, it’s the messages our society tends to pass on to us too that get in the way. As if being needy is something to be ashamed of, some fundamental flaw in ourselves. Grrr. And shame is such a shitty emotion I wish it had never been invented.

Maybe we ought to start a ‘being needy is good’ club or something - because I for one really labour under the delusion that to be healthy and ‘grown up’ somehow means never needing anything from anyone (note the use of word ‘need’ as opposed to ‘want’).

So you go for it - you’ll silence those negative messages for good one day!

Lamplighter
Thanks for the feedback. It's so hard to believe good things about ourselves, isn't it, especially when everything in us screams we are fundamentally flawed. And while I can 'see' that all of you are not, never seems applicable for me. Roll Eyes Like, I am sure a lot of you, I really battle everyday with those negative internal voices, and thought maybe if I looked at my 'needing' from a different point of view it may quiet them some. Some moments it works and others, not so much. AG, starfish, TN, LL, BB - I appreciate so much you all taking the time to respond to my silly question. Once again, finding myself in good company here.
I hope this article which I read from (www.bkswu.org) in the internet:


"Perhaps the most difficult thing for me to come to terms with is the negativity I feel about myself. I see my weaknesses, I see the difficulties I have created, I see the emotional debts I have accumulated and I wonder how it is ever going to be possible to deal with all of this. If I lose hope things will get difficult. Therefore, I do not allow the cycle of negativity to come into being, I do not lose love for myself or negative thoughts will pull me further and further down. As soon as I see that there is the possibility of this negative cycle beginning, I make sure I cut it at that point because cycles are powerful; one weak though and another and another and I am trapped. If I cannot stop it before it begins, it ties me into a knot. Firstly I must see the cause and what needs to be done, and look at the future so I can prevent things from happening; then I take precautions so that it will not happen again. When I recognise myself as an eternal soul, I alter my vision of myself completely. I come back to the realisation of my own original form and feel the divine being that I truly am, and hope returns.

Coming into the awareness of this experience of my own immortality, of ‘I’ the soul, I am able to change my vision completely. I know that in this awareness of being a child of God, I have within myself the capacity for purity, peace and love. If I allow these qualities to emerge and spend a few minutes in silence each day, just letting my mind become detached from all the other things that it’s usually caught up in, then I can value who I truly am. As this stage grows, the influence of this lasts longer each day. As I develop this awareness of self respect and self esteem and I move outside the cycle of negativity that has pulled me down, I make sure my vision, words and actions show this esteem. It is expressed in value and respect for others and from them I get the same response back".
quote:
I know that in this awareness of being a child of God, I have within myself the capacity for purity, peace and love.


Hey Happysoul,

The above is great, thanks. Are you a T by any chance? Are you my T? This sounds like something he would post. Be honest now, fess up.

Sb- I think you are being very strong in allowing yourself to be good to yourself. That is not always and easy thing to do.

Our needs are just that, our "needs". And asking for help with those needs- I think is a big step in the right direction. Keep up the great work.
Dragonfly,
Thanks so much for thinking of me - so thoughtful! Smiler I've been reading, but not posting lately. I was finding myself being triggered by many topics, so needed to not comment for a while. And I am and will likely continue to be filled with the "I don't have anything useful to say anyway" syndrome. Hate when I do that. I'm Going through some separation anxiety again that I may post in another thread about at some point.
I hope you are feeling better Dragonfly. I saw your post about seeing your mom. Frowner Broke my heart. It was so kind of your T to come to you when you needed her.

I am so glad you decided to stay around!! Big Grin
Thanks again for your kind words.
Seablue,

Good to hear from you! I'm sorry you are finding posts triggering. That is another way that you are taking care of yourself (by not posting or reading)!

I think it is hard not to fall into that loop of feeling like you are being too needy or wrong for asking to have your needs met. That is old thinking and so hard to break out of. I frequently feel guilty for asking for extra appointments or anything extra from my T. I feel like I don't deserve it and I'm being too needy or she will resent me etc. I do think it is taking care of yourself though. Asking for what you need is really an huge step in taking care of yourself and I'm glad you are taking that step.
quote:
Originally posted by seablue:
I also feel angry with her fairly often in response to something she says or does in session or something I think she might be thinking, and want to shut down and close her out in anger - of course it is always me I end up punishing. For example, when she was recently on vacation and we had scheduled some phone calls, I found myself wanting to withdraw and not call or not answer her call because I was feeling anger and shame and didn't need her or anyone else. Sound familiar?


Um, yes. Like 1000% yes. And the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to be very suspicious about this kind of anger...namely, that while the anger is real, it's also covering up the really shameful stuff: hurt. Probably explains why some of us don't actually feel better when we get angry, because anger isn't the primary emotion that needs to be felt and worked through.

My goal is to become shameless Big Grin

Russ
seablue
just wanted to say that I read your post and thought "whoa, other people go through that too?"
quote:
Originally posted by seablue:
For example, when she was recently on vacation and we had scheduled some phone calls, I found myself wanting to withdraw and not call or not answer her call because I was feeling anger and shame and didn't need her or anyone else. Sound familiar?


familiar? yes...

i just had battle with myself about asking my T for what we call a "check in" call in between sessions...

I totally want to ask for the check in call and I also then feel so frustrated and I want to cancel my next appointment... and I want to hate me. I want to hate me because of feeling like I need a check in call. I used to just hate me and feel ashamed in the past. Now, I find I am a step back from it sometimes - and I just see inside this huge pull to hate who I am, inherently, just because I felt I needed something that seems really needy to want.

I don't really get it.

quote:
(recently learned from AG that the shame is more likely a coping mechanism we developed in an effort to avoid feeling rejected for having a need in early in life)


...this would kinda maybe make sense in my case... It certainly makes me think.

quote:
So, I guess what I am wondering is if I am making excuses for giving into my being weak and needy or if I am really taking care of myself.


I'd agree with what others have said. It does sound like you are taking care of yourself.

And like you pointed out - it is so awfully easy for us to see that in others and so hard to do for our own selves. (I guess that's why we need other people in our healing process...?)

So sorry to hear that you are going through some separation anxiety again. That just can be so rough. hang in there.


Russ -

quote:
And the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to be very suspicious about this kind of anger...namely, that while the anger is real, it's also covering up the really shameful stuff: hurt. Probably explains why some of us don't actually feel better when we get angry, because anger isn't the primary emotion that needs to be felt and worked through.


well said!
quote:
I totally want to ask for the check in call and I also then feel so frustrated and I want to cancel my next appointment... and I want to hate me. I want to hate me because of feeling like I need a check in call. I used to just hate me and feel ashamed in the past. Now, I find I am a step back from it sometimes - and I just see inside this huge pull to hate who I am, inherently, just because I felt I needed something that seems really needy to want.

I don't really get it.



Boy do I relate to this... except with me I want to hate me for needing to email. (can't imagine actually calling...would rather die)

SB, I think it's good you don't post if you feel too triggered. Good on you, for taking care of you! I hope we all can learn to post when we can and it's safe, and not when not good for us. (((((SB))))))

BB
Hi SB!!!

So good to hear your 'voice' again! I've missed you, but can understand why you've been absent. It's good that you're taking care of yourself, and I too am sorry you've been feeling that separation anxiety again. Me too. It's been a month today since I'd seen my T last at an individual session, and I'll have to wait another month before I see her again. Frowner It makes it hard for me to open up when I know I won't see her for so long. Sessions seem like a waste of time when I know there's going to be a long disconnect like that between sessions, so I don't even allow myself to connect with her. Super sad. I hate it. I had all these goals I was going to accomplish at my session today, and then BAM--I fell flat on my face.

I hope you'll come back around and post once in a while. I've missed you, even though I haven't been on here that much myself. It can be really triggering to spend much time on here, I know. I hope things get better for you soon. Know that you're thought of. Take good care of yourself, Seablue!! Smiler

MTF

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