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Hi All! This is my first post, although I have been reading these boards and all the articles on Dr. LaCombe's website for the past month or so. I have gleaned so much helpful information from all of you and want to thank you all for the great insight and helpful advice and support you offer each other here on these boards. It is because of all the great wisdom and the understanding I feel on the boards that I have decided to take the terrifying step of opening up and asking for some help, so here goes...

I started therapy almost 6 months ago with a LCSW at an outpatient psychology clinic in the local hospital. She is a 66 year-old mother of 5, has been in practice at least 10 years (although I'd guess closer to 15), and has a lot of life experience. I have liked her from the start, but this is my first experience with therapy and I really haven't known what to expect. After a second "negative" experience with her, and developing a strong transference that has turned into an obsessive attachment, I started searching for additional information on what makes a "good" therapy experience and found this website like the rest of you, and I have since had a whole host of conflicting feelings hit me. Now I am more confused than ever and wondering if I will ever make progress and what I should do now.

The reason I started therapy was because of a previous negative transference/obsessive attachment to my physical therapist who also happens to be a man (I'm married) as well as my neighbor and my friend's husband. Bad idea to see him in the first place, I know. It didn't turn into anything romantic/sexual, I just was very needy/childish and got angry over him not meeting my needs. Having access to him via email, church, and the fact that he lives around the corner from me were really bad enablers. Anyway, it ended on a very sour note and I realized how very "sick" I was and finally gave into my mother's gentle prodding that I seek help. Needless to say this situation didn't have a very healthy effect on my relationship with my husband (which is already in a less-than-healthy state as it is). I spent an excessive amount of time worrying about my relationship with this man, and it truly was an obsessive/compulsive sort of thing.

So, my first session with my T was hard. I have emotional deprivation/mistrust/abandonment issues and even taking the step of going to her office was huge for me. When I told her about the situation with the Physical Therapist (PT) her eyebrows shot up and her eyes widened. She told me that my behavior was very unhealthy and self-destructive (like I didn't already know that!). Can I just say SHAME hit me like a ton of bricks? Not to mention that my wall of mistrust went up stronger and thicker at that point. I felt like I was in the judgment seat.

We made some progress in the next few sessions, but I always had this trust thing going on. She mentioned wanting to do some EMDR with me after the new year. I had no idea what EMDR was, so I went home and Googled it and it scared me a LOT. I was terrified of opening up further about the relationship with the PT guy because I feared her "judgment" again. I have to say that while I have always feared judgment and criticism from this woman, it's not because she is judgmental or critical, I am sensitive to those things and "see" them even when they are not really there. I really like my T. She is a lively, funny, caring and empathetic woman.

So, one session things changed for me trust-wise. She told me that for the EMDR she wanted me to write down all of my traumas, even those that seemed little or insignificant because a lot of lower-case traumas can make a capital trauma (her words). This was big for me, because I feel that my husband views my traumas (those he knows of) as being little and insignificant things that shouldn't affect who I am today because they happened when I was a child and I need to "grow up" and deal with it. My T has a ceramic tile in her office with the saying on it, "Put on your big girl panties and DEAL WITH IT!". I think subconsciously I pegged her as feeling the same way my husband does because she has that tile in her office and I figured she feels the same way my husband does. Anyway, her sincerity in telling me that even little traumas are important to acknowledge caused me to feel a shift and helped build my trust in her. That day after my session I went home and fell apart. I realized I wouldn't see her again for a month (due to the holidays) and panic set in. I went to the cupboard and got the telephone book out and looked up her home address. I was shocked that it was in there, honestly. She lives in a city nearby that I am unfamiliar with so I went to the computer and put her address into Google maps. I even went to "Street View" in the satellite option. That's when it hit me that I was in obsession mode with her. I felt the same yucky, intense, needy, dependent feelings I had felt within the relationship with my PT neighbor guy. UGH. I had my first anxiety attack right there at the computer. I cried for days. Finally I told my mother (who knew about the PT guy) and she suggested I call my T and see what she could do to help me. I was terrified to call her, but realized I couldn't keep feeling the way I was feeling for the next month. So, I made the call, left a message (she was out of the office that day) and when she called me the next day she was really nice until I told her that I was having emotional attachment issues with her now like I had with the PT guy. All she said was, "Hmmmm...". Then she told me she was booked for the rest of the month ("Everyone seems to fall apart during the holidays..." Mad ) but that she was coming in to work one day during the holidays and offered me my choice of appointment time. The thing is, I didn't even want an appointment. I already had one for a week later than the one she offered me! All I really wanted was for some kind of comfort, reassurance that I wasn't going to go off the deep end again, we were going to get me through this...something right then and there! I was so let down I cried for the rest of the day. Then I was angry at her. For the next three weeks through my son's 5th birthday and Christmas I was absolutely miserable. My mind wouldn't let go of obsessive thoughts of my T and it was a horrible, horrible experience.

Those 3 weeks were spent mostly locked in the bathroom or bedroom talking to myself (or to her, actually) trying to sort out where this obsessive thing comes from. She would be the 7th significant person in my life that I have done this with. I did figure it out, which was a relief, but of course it doesn't help to stop the transference/obsession once it's already in progress. Anyway, when the time for my session came during the holidays, she called me the day before to remind me of the appointment. Her voice was unusually distant and devoid of emotion or her usual friendly tone. The next morning her demeanor was equally distant. I felt like such an a** for having ever called her for help. I was so ashamed and scared that I had ruined my relationship with her and that I had made her so uncomfortable that she would now remain distant and withdrawn from me forever. After I explained my new insight as to why I target professionals in my transference/obsession issues, she seemed to feel better and more relaxed and by the end of our session together she was back to her usual self. She commended me for figuring it out on my own and thanked me for sharing it all with her, that it made her feel better...(she said more after the "better" part but I quit listening at that point and don't remember what she said she felt better about).

The next two sessions were almost a complete waste. I was too frightened to open up after her reaction to me. She had wanted to do EMDR for the relationship with the PT guy, but knowing her reaction to my disclosure that I was emotionally attached to her like I was to him made me really scared to even think about revealing any more about that relationship mess because it might frighten her and cause her to feel uneasy and possibly wary of me. It took me having my mother "threaten" me that she would come with me and tell my T that I needed to talk to her (about her negative reaction to me) before I realized I had to do that in order to move forward and make any further progress. I was consumed by the fear of what she really thought of me. Opening up to her that session was one of the hardest things I have ever done. I felt like a scared and bad little girl sitting on the couch having to tell my mother that I had done something terrible. I told her that her reaction at my first session had made me wish I hadn't said anything about the PT guy. She told me she was just concerned about where he was, or what his position was within the relationship (if he was emotionally involved or leading me on, etc.). I asked her about her reaction on the phone and why all she said was "Hmmmm...". She said it was because she didn't want me to become too dependent on her.(???) She was really nice and told me she cares about me, and that when I am ready to leave therapy (which scares me beyond words) she wants me to be so kick-butt that I will know what I want in life and how to get it, etc. I was in tears and feeling so ashamed and embarrassed at this point that I couldn't go further and ask about why she was so distant at our session, and it still bothers me now. She asked me at the end of our session that day if "we" were okay, and I said yes because I felt better, but not totally better. I just didn't want to keep feeling ashamed and stupid. Frowner

Now I'm confronted with more issues. I have been on medications for almost 5 months and they haven't worked so far. I have thought/known that I have OCD (but only with people/relationships, like with my T and PT) and my T and I talked about this two sessions ago and she didn't really press me about the compulsive part as I told her I do have compulsive issues and that they have to do with people and she just let it drop there. She verified that I have obsessive thoughts. She knows that they revolve around people and I thought she was clear that she was one of those people. Apparently not because she asked me to talk to my doctor about the OCD issue when I saw him again (which was last week before my session with her yesterday). He asked me questions about my behaviors and I was more open with him than I am with my T, but still couldn't tell him about the compulsive stuff with my T (detailed below). So when I saw her and told her about the changes to my meds she seemed concerned that he had switched them. She asked me why he and I think I have OCD because she thinks I just have the obsessive thoughts issue. I told her I do have the compulsive part and she pressed me about it. She asked if the obsession still had to do with the PT guy and I told her no. She asked me who it had to do with and I told her it was with her. She said, "Really?!?" Then she wanted to know what she does or doesn't do that makes it worse. I didn't say anything. She wanted to know what the compulsiveness part of it was. That's when things got REALLY uncomfortable. I asked if I had to answer. She didn't say anything. I told her I could fill an hour with details. So what are the details? (She still doesn't know, BTW)

I had to give her an example, so my example was that I knew from my previous session that her mother was in hospice and on death watch. This was not self-disclosure on her part, I overheard her telling a colleague that had asked her about her mother while I was standing at the receptionist's desk making another appointment. I obsessively worried about her (my T) all week, checking the obituaries online, etc. She said, "Oh, bless your heart." That didn't help...

Anyway, my obsessive compulsive issues with this woman are that I think about her constantly. She never leaves my mind. Even if I'm distracted by something else, she's at the periphery of my mind waiting to come back to the forefront. She's the last thing I think about before I go to bed and the first thing that pops into my mind in the morning. I am on the computer researching information about her, her husband, kids, past information, whatever I can find that is free legal information. I have not driven by her home and don't plan to, as I know that would make the obsession worse. I HATE HATE HATE that I do this!!! Now I am so full of guilt and shame that I have searched for all of this stuff about her and I feel like I need to tell her to get rid of the shame and guilt. At the same time, I fear that she will hate me, terminate me, tell me I'm sick/psycho and that she can't deal with me and my issues. I'm so terrified that I would almost rather never go back to her than face her and tell her these things. If I were in her place I would be scared to have a patient that knew/was researching info about me and my family for fear that I would have a stalker on my hands. The humiliation of having to admit this all to her is really scaring the crap out of me. I am convinced that it will mean the end of my relationship with her. My mother recommended writing her a letter and mailing it to her before I have to see her again because I really feel there's no way I could actually verbalize these things, but I am wondering if that would be very beneficial or if I would be better off just facing the overwhelming fear and telling her face to face. The idea of telling her in person absolutely terrifies me, and I mean I really feel like I would vomit from the fear, or sit there for the entire hour sobbing and shaking, unable to say anything because I am frozen in fear. In fact, I could see myself literally running out of her office because I just can't face the humiliation. I'm already freaking out sitting here thinking about it. What should I do??? Why does therapy sometimes make life harder and make us feel worse rather than help us feel better?!! I am not enjoying the experience!! Frowner

Sorry this is so long, thanks for reading if you've gotten this far! Wink

MTF
Original Post

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Dear MTF,
Thank for posting. Unfortunately for you, I am rather new to therapy myself, so i don't pretend to have any wise information for you, but many on here do- so hang in there.
Also the articles written by Shrink Lady and friends are very informative.
Let us know how you are doing with your therapist.
All the best on your journey.
Hele
Hi MTF! Welcome to the forum. I'm so glad you found us and it's helping you sort things out.

Thanks for sharing so much of your story. I like long posts and lots of details...some of mine get pretty long, too.

What really struck me throughout your post is your shame at opening up to your T about your obsessing and getting the responses you did. How painful to take that step to be open and trusting with something so fragile, and not be heard! Her responses make me think she possibly has not been educated or trained to see your symptoms for what they are. These are exactly the same responses I got from the T's at my former clinic - distancing, don't get too dependent, and oh my gosh you are obsessed, as if that's the final diagnosis. What was so frustrating about it is that I told them I was obsessed at the very first session! I know it's unhealthy, that's why I'm here. What I wanted to know is, WHY am I obsessed? What is driving it? What is behind it? But they really didn't even understand what I was asking.

You obviously know this is unhealthy and want to do something about it. Is your T trained in attachment issues and/or trauma? That might be the first step in finding out whether she can help you with this, without causing more shame for you. It is so important that your T understand there is more going on beneath the surface, that the obsession is a symptom of some deeper injury, so she can help you understand it too.

I'm so glad you posted about this...and I look forward to getting to know you. Smiler

SG
Welcome MTF. Glad you jumped in and posted! I am no expert (SG and some others here have more experience with this situation than I do), but when I read your story I had to agree with SG that maybe your T isn't trained to deal with attachment issues. It sounds like she is making several blunders. I know that is probably a scary thought, like where does that leave you? You have all these feelings and its not so easy to just pick up and leave and go therapist-shopping. Maybe there is a book someone here knows about that you could suggest your T read to help her understand where you are coming from a little better? Just one idea, but it may not be the best answer.
Hi MTF and welcome to the board.

I don't have a lot of time now because I'm on my lunch hour but I did want to weigh in and just tell you that it seems that your T is not experienced in helping patients who have attachment injury. I think this could be part of the reason you get so attached to certain people. You are looking for people who can satisfy the needs you have that were never met as a child. It happens most commonly with Ts and Ps but it could also happen with other people of authority or those in the helping professions. Attachment injury has to do with not attaching to our primary caregiver when we are a child and our development goes awry. We learn not to ask for things or to expect to have our needs met and then one day we find someone who it seems can satisfy this empty yearning feeling we have and we attach to them. The other part of development which we need to re-experience while in therapy is to "depend" on our Ts. We need to experience the dependency before we can learn to be independent (really interdependent because we all need others in our lives). It seems that your T is not comfortable with the dependent part... most likely because she comes from the psychoanalytical background which believes it is unhealthy to encourage patients to depend on their T. But in cases of attachment injury it is part of the healing to be allowed to depend for awhile. My T and I have struggled through this and he is getting better about it. I would suggest you read a book called "Attachment in Psychotherapy" by David Wallin who write extensively about this topic. Another good book which AG recommends a lot around here is General Theory of Love. Perhaps you can share these with your T. I have and it has helped him to understand where my need to depend comes from. And the constant need for reassurance from him is vital to my recovery.

I'm not sure what you background is but if there has been any abuse or trauma finding safety in a T is of the utmost importance before you can get any work done. Part of the reason why we search for info on our Ts is to try to know them better and in some way this will enable us (we believe) to decide if they are trustworthy enough for us to confide in. Another reason we google is to feel closer to them. I find that I have the need to search for info when I need to be closer and feel connected to my T... like when he's away on vacation or there is a break in my sessions or even if we have a disruption in our relationship. You are not doing anything that most of us have not done. I have not told my T but others have and have had positive outcomes. Don't beat yourself up about this unless you are using the info you find to hurt or harm your T... in which case you need to discuss it with someone.

Lastly, when I told my T that I was having feelings for him he was initially put off by the news, becoming worried about transference etc but when I put it in terms of my need for a healthy attachment and when I educated him about attachment theory he relaxed a great deal and our relationship only got stronger and went even deeper.

I suggest you talk about some of this with your T and please let us know how you are doing.

TN
Thanks so much, everyone! I feel so much better just reading all of your replies. I have felt so alone in this whole attachment thing, especially with my therapist. Sometimes I don't think she really understands the fact that I'm currently stuck on HER, that it's about people in the past. And I think this last session she finally got it that it's obsessive, but I still don't think she gets that there's a compulsive side of it, too. I guess that's why I feel like I need to tell her about the fact that I have searched for stuff about her and her family on the internet, and that I do it mostly when I am stressed a great deal, like you mentioned, True North. When my mind is stuck in major obsess mode over her is when I feel most compelled to get online and satisfy my curiosity/need to know more about her. And then comes the guilt and shame. Frowner I've been so worried about her feelings and how she will react to me if she knows that I am obsessed with her and the negative ramifications that might follow, so I think I'm just in a really high state of activation/anxiety right now. On one hand, I'm terrified to let her in on my "secret", but on the other, I feel she needs to know in order to know how to help me, or if she CAN help me or needs to transfer me to someone else who can. I don't see her for another 2 1/2 weeks, so it's going to be an agonizing wait. I'm debating whether to send her a letter between now and then, or just work on summoning up the courage to tell her all of my issues face to face (which scares me silly!).

Anyway, thanks again everyone! I'm so glad I found this place ! Smiler

MTF
quote:
Originally posted by True North:
The other part of development which we need to re-experience while in therapy is to "depend" on our Ts. We need to experience the dependency before we can learn to be independent (really interdependent because we all need others in our lives). It seems that your T is not comfortable with the dependent part... most likely because she comes from the psychoanalytical background which believes it is unhealthy to encourage patients to depend on their T. But in cases of attachment injury it is part of the healing to be allowed to depend for awhile. My T and I have struggled through this and he is getting better about it. I would suggest you read a book called "Attachment in Psychotherapy" by David Wallin who write extensively about this topic. Another good book which AG recommends a lot around here is General Theory of Love. Perhaps you can share these with your T. I have and it has helped him to understand where my need to depend comes from. And the constant need for reassurance from him is vital to my recovery.
TN


I just ordered these two books along with "In Session: The Bond Between Women and Their Therapists." If they are helpful, I will share what I feel relevant with my therapist. Thanks for the suggestions!

quote:
if there has been any abuse or trauma finding safety in a T is of the utmost importance before you can get any work done. Part of the reason why we search for info on our Ts is to try to know them better and in some way this will enable us (we believe) to decide if they are trustworthy enough for us to confide in. Another reason we google is to feel closer to them. I find that I have the need to search for info when I need to be closer and feel connected to my T... like when he's away on vacation or there is a break in my sessions or even if we have a disruption in our relationship.


I do have trauma work to do but have been unwilling to open up because I am not at a high enough level of trust with her due to her reactions to some things I mentioned in my original post. I have reflected on why I am so terrified to reveal to her the fact that I have searched stuff on the net about her and I am wondering if it is because part of me wonders (or maybe even knows) that she is NOT the therapist for me and is afraid that if she knows this stuff and can't handle the transference/obsession and my neediness that she will terminate/transfer me, which is what in reality would be best for me, even if it's not what I WANT. Of course it IS what I want (which is most likely why I'm so plagued with guilt and feel the NEED to tell her all of this, even though it scares me to death!), I'm just scared because of my attachment to her. Ugh....


quote:
if they get freaked or express distaste/disappointment toward us, we get all the shame and the guilt thing happening which compounds the problem and intensifies the need to connect surreptitiously. So yeh, find the courage to discuss it with her and gauge what she can offer. Don't waste precious time with someone who isn't equipped to help you.


Monte,
Thanks for this. You've given me the encouragement I needed to talk myself into just being open with her, no matter the cost, because as I just said above, it will be in my best interest either way to find out whether or not she is able/willing to help me. I really don't want to waste precious time I could be taking advantage of to get myself better. Smiler

Thanks again, everyone!!

MTF
Monte- I like your comment about focusing it on God. I have said this so many times to other people. And at church when they ask how you would truly know you are as in love with as you should be what would it look like my answer always was "I would be stalking him because I stalk my psychiatrist and did it to my husband before we were together." Every one always looks at my like I am weird but I am so serious about it.
Monte and Pippi, I agree with you both. If I would put as much focus and energy/effort into my relationship with God as I do with my T, I would probably (no, I WOULD) be a whole lot healthier and better off than I am now. I just don't know how to apply that knowledge to making it happen and getting myself off of my T. Frowner It sucks...

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