((((TAS))))

No words of wisdom. Just lots of hugs. You are in a tough spot.

(((TAS)))

So sorry. Maybe give it a week or two and see how it goes for you, this no contact policy? Perhaps some insight or intuition is telling him it is really in your best interest.

((((TAS))))

I've been thinking about your problem. (Uh, oh, she says.) The promise of getting something can increase the longing for it even if we know that we will probably not get it. Even if the door is open just a little bit, I think there will be a part of us that will continue to hope that we can get our foot in there and get inside.

For me, being in that state of longing is an incredibly painful place to be. That's where the tight boundaries are helpful. It sounds like that's where you were when you did email and text T. I don't know how things were when you saw him twice weekly. Did it hurt a lot then? Or did you feel better off than you are now?

The other issue I see is that you need your T for emotional regulation. He's a bridge between the past and the present. For instance, having not so rigid boundaries (as was the case with texting - it wasn't your fault for texting him even after he said not to. It's his responsibility to hold tight there and not answer you) increased your emotional dysregulation. You need your T to help regulate you. It's no wonder you would reach out to him for help. That's what he's supposed to be helping you do.

For me, once a week wasn't enough. I keep coming back to the fact that maybe you need more contact but more structured contact, like check-in calls. I can give you the names of some really good articles if you want to bring them to him. He needs to get you stabilized and until that happens, nothing good is going to come of this.

((((TAS)))))

Tas I fully endorse and support what catalyst said.

Patients don't get to control their T's boundaries and its usually pointless to demand they change them. Maybe for reasons you don't see or understand, T believes these are the boundaries you need to heal.

If its not working then maybe consider going to another T

Sometimes a T's boundaries can be damaging to a client. In trauma work, they call for boundary negotiation. Boundaries have to be firm and flexible at the same time. Tas, if your T doesn't give you something you think you need, I agree with Greeneyes, that you should find another therapist. The relationship should work for both of you.

You went twice a week for a while, right? So the twice a week thing is not necessarily a boundary of his, per se, but a decision he made in regards to your treatment.

Personally, I wouldn't just accept his word for it that this is the right set-up for you. I would need to know why he thinks it's the right set-up and it would have to make sense to me. There are things I need from a therapist. If a particular therapist couldn't give them and quoted their boundaries, then I would have to leave and find another therapist. I see certain things as needs, areas in which I cannot be flexible. They are my boundaries, my needs. If after fully understanding his wisdom, if you still think you cannot work within the constraints he puts on the relationship, you should seriously consider finding another therapist.


Cat has 2 T's and sees her main therapist twice a week. She also has a very liberal out of session contact policy. Right Cat?

(((Cat)))

I feel bad for Tas as she wants something many of us have. I know you didn't always have it and your relationships have evolved from all of the courage you have and hard work you have done. I was worried that Tas herself wouldn't be able to validate her own needs, that she might feel as though she has to accept what her T is giving her. I don't even know if Tas needs help validating her own needs. I was sticking my nose in there anyway.

As many of you know, my T changed his boundaries for me precisely in this area so this issue is near and dear to my heart. I can't tell you how many times the people here told me to leave my T but I couldn't. Thankfully, our relationship evolved and we have both affected one another. His prior boundaries were literally hurting me. He had negative views of dependency. My GAF was in the 40's. Had he terminated me at that point, I might have wound up in a homeless shelter. I was accepting T's boundaries but functioning less and less well as time went on. I couldn't leave him either. It was a bad situation. However, I have become more functional since we did some "boundary negotiation".

So, I'm approaching this from that point of view. It sounds like Tas doesn't want to leave him necessarily but isn't happy with the way things are. It could be a very healing for Tas to keep discussing this issue with him until she comes to terms with it, one way or another so that if she stays, she feels good about staying and doesn't feel like she's being oppressed. There is a bit of disempowerment going on there that would be hard for any trauma survivor to deal with. If she decides to leave, she can leave knowing that both of them tried their very hardest to work it out but it's just one of those things that isn't going to work. I'm not a big fan of T's making unilateral decisions.

It's my own personal opinion that there are a lot of f'd-up T's out there who have absolutely no idea what they are doing. There are also good T's out there who aren't as aware of their own issues as they should be. A boundary could be put in place because it's a personal limitation of the T or it could be put in place because the T thinks that it's what the client needs in order to heal. The T could be right or the T could be wrong. I would want to know my T's reasoning. I'm very stubborn and it would be hard for me to accept my therapists boundaries if I didn't understand them.

But, that's me. I'm stubborn.

All our issues are different. It's hard for me to imagine, in my very narrow mind, what would prompt a scaling back like that. It's hard for me to think of a time when that would actually be helpful and I'm sure if someone were to suggest a time, I'd find a way to disagree. I'm making huge assumptions here that Tas needs to experience safe dependency on her T as well as emotional regulation. Sorry Tas.

Thank you:

HIC
Liese
Green Eyes
Catalyst

I read each of your replies and will do my best to go to the next appointment. I so want to tell him to f*** off...he hasn't replied.

I want to say, 'You are a Therapist? I think a Sadist is more fitting.'

Sorry, he is not my favorite person right now, and rarely has been.

AG: Thank you for your reply. Honestly, I do find it cruel. I asked him if he could please call me and tell me he isnt going anywhere. He never called. Can a therapist be so hung up on boundaries that they dont see what their client needs? I think he honestly wants me to quit.

I am typing this from my phone, forgive spelling and punctuation, please.

TAS

TAS,

I was wondering if you have explored the option of finding another T at all? Sometimes, just looking online or calling to set up a consult appointment can help guide your feelings on what to do. I personally found that I felt a sense of freedom once I started searching for a new T. Of course it was very difficult initially, the thought "starting all over", re-attaching, trusting, ect....but I could feel the tiniest bit of relief and freedom and it guided me that I was doing the right thing.

Is there any harm in having a consultation appointment with a few other T's and asking about their boundary guidlines while still seeing current T? Perhaps if you open up a few more doors with differen options, it might help you decide what is best to do?

Just a thought...

Thank you so much for each of your replies. I do appreciate you taking time to write.

Poppet: This is so incredibly painful. I don't know which way to go...I really feel that he is just being mean.

I will not go to another Therapist because I don't want to start all over with someone else. But, it's either his way or no way, it seems, and I don't do well with that.

I cancelled Saturdays appointment...because I think I will just tell him to f*** off. And I don't swear but everytime I think of this situation...that is exactly what I want to say to him.

I think he is heartless. You don't hear someone say they are in pain and not reassure them.

K-may: Thank you for your words. I really don't want to start over with someone else...as I am an immensely private person and I don't want all my history in the hands of someone else. I will figure it out. (I am sorry your therapist cancelled on you) Sending you hugs.

To each of you, all the best.
T.

TAS - I am wondering if his insistence about you making all your appointments is a very earnest attempt to give you what that inside kid is asking for, which is reassurance he is going to be there for you, he's not going anywhere. If you're going to have a go at making therapy work (since you seem to prefer to try with him than start over, which I totally get as I have said the same if something forced me to leave T), I think it's important to try to give yourself the consistency to see what he does provide, which is showing up and being there and being willing to hear all you feel about him and this situation. If you don't, you'll never know whether it will help you work through the pain his boundaries are stirring up.

I am not shoving you in that direction, because I'd probably do the same if my T had super strict contact policies...or rather, I would have never become vulnerable as I am now...but there were months (and still are times) where I have to go in and spend 1/3 of my session talking about wanting to run away from him and how painful the work is. I kept showing up for some reason and I find that by doing so, there is almost nothing I can't share with him (modesty issues or conflicts with him being H's therapist being the exceptions) if I am patient with myself, because I did keep coming and give (all of) myself the consistency of seeing he would be there, accepting me, no matter what came up.

If it were me, though, I would still feel the need to understand the boundary my T was setting, especially if it was something available before and then taken away. Has he explained whether it is just what he thinks will be best for you and why? Or maybe he realizes outside contact of that type is more than he'll be able to consistently offer and he is protecting you from perpetual disappointment that would continually reopen old wounds and disturb the therapeutic relationship more than he thinks the boundary will over the long haul? Maybe it is only to do with how he feels capable of working. Or maybe he is dependency-phobic as some therapists seem to be? I think understanding it is paramount.

My T and I once had an issue, early on, because he had sat on the floor, a few feet away (maybe five) with me a couple of sessions. We didn't understand at the time that it was activating disorganized attachment stuff that was held in other parts who felt either a need to be very close or a fear of being abused and a desire to run away. It was obvious to him that whatever was going on inside was causing me extreme amounts of anxiety and pain. So, one session, he told me, "Maybe it wasn't a good idea for me to sit with you," and set a boundary about not doing it (which was temporary in our case). It was extremely destabilizing, caused all sorts of confusing reactions, and took me months of journaling about all of those painful things (he reads the journals) to even work up to discussing how and why that had happened in person. The journey through all the reactions inside led to my diagnosis in part, though he had suspected on his own months earlier without saying more than "a lot of dissociation."

Ultimately, when I risked to ask T about it directly (gave him a list of unresolved questions from our first 10 months of work together, most revolving around this issue), I found his answers made me feel very safe and cared about. I found out he had specifically consulted with others about how I was reacting to make the right decision about how to address it. I found out that he had known there would be repercussions, a lot of hurt and anger and possibly crisis and wanting to run away, and was ready to ride all of that out with me. Looking back, he was very attentive and responsive to everything I shared by journal and text (though some of my journals went missing into his SPAM around that time, so there were little ruptures around that). I found out that it was ok to explore sitting together in the future and his real concern was working in the way that was safe and mostly tolerable to be (i.e. reducing unnecessary crisis).

So, I basically learned that my T is someone who will try to the utmost to discern what is best for ME in our work together. Sometimes that means drawing stricter boundaries (like right now, when he is getting over the flu, he simply has less time to offer), but I can trust that he thinks through that all the time, because I risked to talk and ask about boundaries he has set. Actually, it has come to make me feel very safe when he sets them, because I realize that whatever he does offer to be is completely without strings. I haven't bowled him over to get it, so I won't become "too much." Anyway, I hope sharing my experience helps in some way.
(((Hugs)))

quote:

I will not go to another Therapist because I don't want to start all over with someone else. But, it's either his way or no way, it seems, and I don't do well with that.

TAS,
Well if you are not making any progreess anyways, it can't hurt right? I felt the same way when I started looking for a new T. But when I found one that had the boundaries that I needed, the feeling of "sarting all over" just diminished. I felt relief that I was out of the turmoil-filled relationship with old T and that I had a fresh start with someone who felt safer and more dependable for my particular situation. I realize I don't know your story or your struggles, but it just seems you have been stuck in this terribly difficult and painful place for such a long time. If you can't move forward and if it's not working, then maybe it's just time to move on? If something is not working, then we try something new right?

I'm going to go out on a ledge and hope I don't offend you with this....perhaps you can even see the tiniest bit of humor in it, as it applies to all of us in a sense
The definition of "Insanity" - repeating the same behavior/or mistakes over and over and expecting different results.

Maybe even just going to some consultatioj appointments with new T's and telling them about your current struggles could open a dialouge to help you think about the situation differently?

Praying that things improve for you,

((((TAS))))

I was in a similar situation in terms of not wanting to leave my T even though everyone here told me to. I did go on consults, though, but never with the intention of leaving. I went for validation. It was incredibly freeing (as KMAY said above) because suddenly I realized that there WERE other options. Not that I was planning on taking advantage of them but knowing they were there was helpful.

Another problem I had was when I was angry with my T, I didn't want to go to sessions. Well, that's not accurate because a part of me did want to go but another part felt as though he had hurt me and so why am I going groveling back to him? He should be calling me to apologize. I decided to honor the part of me that wanted to see him and the part of me that wanted to heal. I figured, even if I made a mistake in terms of going, at least I would know. But if I didn't go, I would never know if there was some growth there for me and I'd just be repeating old patterns of running away when I was angry.

I'd like to encourage you to go Saturday and tell him how angry you are. Like the others, I would still want to understand why he won't let you come twice a week and about the out of session contact. I'm still a big fan of the check-in calls. That way you won't be waiting around for him to call. You'll have a set time to chat even if it's only for a few minutes. Why not suggest that to him? He might not have thought of it. My T does that for me now on days when I have to miss sessions. It really helped a lot and now I'm at the point where I don't need it or we leave it open.

(((TAS))))

I feel your pain.

Hey Tas,

When reading about transference issues and anger over the past few months, I have always felt that your T is very understanding, patient and experienced.His current boundary tighten - seems out of character and I have been reading the posts and trying to understand where he is coming from.

To me it sounds like he has consulted a colleague in what to do to help you most and him being strict on contact is part of that. You have had a history of anger and negative transference and have thrown a huge amount of anger at him. He remained patient and consistent to you. Incredibly so. Then recently you had a bit of a fit with him and terminated him - well you said you weren't going back, offered him the giftcard and he reacted while under personal stress.

I think he felt he lost control a bit with his reaction to you and needed a consult to help him manage together.

The other thing is that you have decided to start working WITH him - which is a HUGE leap for you (and well done). I think your T thinks this is another transference thing and needs to be consistent so that if you get angry again - he knows he has done the right thing.

I think he has put the boundaries up to see what you do - i don't think he can predict your next move because you have not been very consistent with how you deal with him and so he is doing this to see how you react. The underlying motive of his behaviour - I believe is that he is still showing consistency and constancy - and hopes that you will stick around to start working with him and not against him.

I think he is showing you that he is there for you, but you need to be the one that does the actual therapy - he can't do it for you, fix it for you and fill in all the gaps.

You have made some huge shifts in the past few weeks - and I am sure your T will be thrilled if you can tell him about it. Once you *prove* (not the right word) to him that you are committed to your therapy relationship with him, I really think he will soften a little and you can negotiate out of session contact.

It helps to think about what you need from him. If you say "i think I need x number of out of session contacts" - and then explain why - that might help.

I might be totally off track with this post, but it is my gut feeling
Somedays

Thank you Kmay, Anonymously and Liese.
I was thinking about this situation and these words came to me:

I asked
and you said "No"-
Through the firmness
these whispered words:
"It's time for you to grow."


T.

Thank you Blu.

I appreciate your kindness.

Closed Doors, I didn't mean to exclude you in my thank you's...I think we cross posted. What you said makes a lot of sense and I wonder also, if he didn't consult with someone else.

This is a huge trust issue.

Thank you for your kind words.
T.

oh, i wish i could take credit for what SomeDays said above! TAS, you got the three-fruits confused with the one-fruit! (i'm fruity, all right!) seriously though, SD i think what you said above is very insightful and worded very beautifully.

TAS, i love your mini poem above

Why thank you One-Fruit.

I am drinking a fruity drink at the moment, maybe that counts. Is champagne made from fruit? Yeah it is ...

From the champagne affected Three-fruited One ie Somedays.

i want to be champagne affected! ahhhh ... maybe later when i'm not working

Ahhh, One-Fruit - the beauty of different time zones.... I can be champagne affected... 'tis night time here. And i have enjoyed the champagne immensely. (except I seem to be typing-impaired)

The three-fruited one Somedays.

Closed Doors you are absolutely right...I do that all the time...

SomeDays I am so sorry. Thank you for your insight...I really appreciate it!

T.