(((erica))), i can also regulate my emotions for the most part (T might argue too much so!). he has given me the green light on email, but he made it clear that it's because i don't disclose much when i email. and the few times i did email him (and the ONE time i phoned him) it was very difficult to do because of the needy/annoying/dependent stuff you wrote about. i sure do relate.

what i've discussed with my T regarding dependency is that i don't want to become dependent on him. for the whole need/annoying/dependent thing as well as the "this issa gonna have to end" thing. you want me to attach knowing full-well this is gonna end? huh? it's a whole 'nother struggle and there are threads out there regarding this.

why do we feel so much shame and loathing because of therapy? right now i'm feeling pissed that we have been brain-washed into feeling ashamed and self-loathing for getting help for ourselves. what the hell?!? maybe that's what your T meant, erica: that despite the fact that you've been made to believe that it's shameful to get help when you need it, you go anyway. that IS brave! it defies the messed-up thinking that you've been made to believe. so ... there!

what you've said IS relevant and thank you for sharing your dependency experience

never too late, (((AG)))!

quote:

Just knowing my T was becoming important to me freaked me out.

indeed! 7 months ago when i suddenly bailed (i DID show up for a termination session, though!) he KNEW it was for the reason i just quoted and he even SAID so, in so many words! only he used the 'c' word damn him!!! he's always 10 miles ahead of me and he knows it, but he patiently waits as i struggle to catch up. this is our relationship metaphor: he has alot of experience with horses and mules (i'm sure he'd tell you that i fall into the later category). i picture him with a machete, clearing the way, just cruising along, knowing what he's doing and where he's going, and i'm stuck behind, scratching my head thinking "wtf is he doing and where is he going and why doesn't he wait for me?" but he does wait ... it' just that he seems so intent on what he's doing that i sometimes wonder what his agenda is, and does he even know i don't have an agenda? ugh. it's all just very confusing and mind-f*cky.

anyway, i got off the beaten path, so to speak.

quote:

learning about it helped me to understand my legitimate need to depend on the stronger, wiser other to finish developing

AG, thank you for that! it's so hard for me to know what i need, and there are threads on this topic of "what do i need?", but i still really struggle with it. your quote above, to me, is really raw and i needed to hear that. this will take me a long time to absorb, but thank you SO much for sharing this.

quote:

it could only be done by allowing myself to move closer to my T and depend on him.

oh. really? gawd! i'm a mess!!!

quote:

He was my home and my sense of safety and my sense of worth while I learned what those things are. I am very blessed in that he recognized my need for dependence in healing and held clear boundaries so it did not become pathological.

that's what i think T is offering me, and my response is to run away. you are very blessed, indeed, AG, and even more blessed because you know you are. thanks for giving so many examples of dependency in therapy. i needed 'em. i got lots to noodle over.

quote:

so, if i understand you right, i can't move away from my coffee mug until after i have developed better self-regulation, emotional tolerance, and coping skills in T? or, i can't move away from the dependence until after i've developed these things? i hope you're still around, BLT. i do appreciate your input.

Uh, well, one or the other. I think how it often happens is you first start to move away from your negative coping mechanisms but then you are leaning on your T for dear life. Then gradually you can stand on your own a little more, along with leaning on other people in your life.

In my own case, one thing I've gotten better at is getting through conflicts with my H without numbing out, SI, screaming, etc. But there have been times where to get through I was literally emailing her several times a day to vent, or for a while I had an object from her that I carried around with me in my purse, etc.

i like your explanation, BLT. kind of like being bed-bound, then T helps you sit up not too fast, then you use him as a kind of crutch while he helps transition and position you back into real life. that paints a really comforting picture.

i know this thread is on it's last leg, but i'm wondering what others' take is of this quote from T: "but it would be nice to finish the therapy around the therapy to the point where you don't feel dependent". i get most of it, but i don't get the "therapy around the therapy" part. any thoughts at all?

hmm, maybe he means that he'd like to work on processing what gets stirred up for you around therapy and all it encompasses...and that if that processing happens, you won't feel overly dependent? I'm just thinking about processing the relational dynamic and feelings/thoughts/past experiences it generates. And working on the here and now, in the room, relational stuff...which is somewhat different (yet intertwined) with past stuff and present day issues apart from the T relationship/treatment. I don't even know if I've made any sense haha.

What do you think he meant? How did you feel when he said that?

quote:

T: "but it would be nice to finish the therapy around the therapy to the point where you don't feel dependent".

Maybe it means therapy around the dependency? I think it's sort of an end point.. like you will have processed your life and what you want to up to the point of therapy, then process the therapy (to make meaning, etc).

Is it triggering you at all to talk about this at this stage in therapy? The ending stuff? I know it is triggering for me, my T said something that was sort of painful that I took the wrong way - I don't want to repeat it because I can see other people getting upset too!!

(((erica))) i think i know what you're saying and i like it. i think i'm actually starting to accept that i am dependent on him, for now, anyway, in the comfort of my own home. definitely not an easy thing to do, but right now at the moment i'm feeling like fighting it is so much more difficult than accepting. it's really been a hellish 7 months, all of my own self-inflicted doing. thanks for your input, erica!
hi (((cat))). the end (at the moment) is not triggering. maybe because i've been at the pseudo-end a couple of times now. it HAS been triggering to even just think about the ending stuff, though. agonizingly so. he never seems to quite get that. yeah, sometimes i wonder if T's realize how important everything they say and how they say it is to their clients. i hope you can talk to your T about it since it was so hurtful. i'm sure she didn't mean it to be interpreted that way.

For about a year and a half I was very emotionally dependent on T. It wasn't hard to admit, but trying to break away from it was the difficult part. I think in some sense I still depend on her but in a different way; I depend on her to listen to me when I'm struggling with something, and that's kind of about it. T is now more someone who mostly just hears me vent and cry or praises me on how I got through a particular situation in my own. I found that my life is a lot less exhausting now that Im not solely dependent on her to regulate my emotions.

me again

this is going to sound incredibly stupid (it does to me, anyway) but it's eating me up. so now i'm feeling like if i go back that he won that round. somebody help me.

CD,
If I can approach this from a fairly simplistic point of view:

1. Going back means moving closer
2. Hamster amygdala checks prior experiences
3. Hamster amygdala screams NO NO NO TOO DANGEROUS
4. Frontal lobe does not want to look irrational and goes hunting for rationale.
5. Frontal lobe says "but if I go back, he wins and we don't want that, I am not going back"
6. Hamster amygdala stops screaming and frontal lobe feels smart.

Sorry I know that was a bit on the tongue-in-cheek side but I honestly think that's whats happening. We need to go back in spite of our fear in order for our amydala to "learn" that even though this once was a dangerous activity, it no longer is. Eventually, it even can learn it is a pleasurable and good thing to move towards the other because our needs get met.

This is incredibly frustrating because we cannot THINK our way through it, its not about what we know, its about what we've experienced. And we like to see ourselves as cool, rational, thinking people (especially in Western culture). If it was just about knowledge, we could walk through the door and the T would hand us a book "How to live a happy, healthy life" and we'd say "thanks, see ya'" (yes, that IS my perfect fantasy) but it doesn't work that way.

Please ask yourself a couple of questions. What does he win? Why is it bad if he wins? Why do I NEED to win? If you find yourself unable to answer those questions despite the feeling of him needing not to win to be SO strong, there's a fairly good chance the list I gave above is operating.

How do I know this? Cause my #$%^&%$%$ T does this questioning thing to me all the time.

AG

THANKS for posting this today, AG!

This one slid right into home plate for me! Got a little bruised by it.....but in a good way.

Very well written, and so timely for me.

Blu, trust me that you are not alone, I was clarifying my own experience while composing it. Glad it hit home and thanks for saying so.

thanks, AG. i happen to appreciate cheekiness, so it's all good. it'a a pretty great comic illustration.

what does he win? he wins by me admitting by going back that i'm dependent on him and, G*d forbid "needy". barf. it's bad because it makes me more vulnerable than i already feel. i need to win so i won't fail if i don't change (if that makes sense).

WINNER!

phew!!!! Thanks CD, thought you would take it in the spirit in which it was given.


Ah, now I understand as I am working hard not to hate myself for having needs and being vulnerable. But guess what? Being able to recognize our needs and be vulnerable is how we win, its how we learn to live fully. There's nothing wrong with your needs CD. Humans are built to need each other. The problem lies in the treatment that taught you to believe the lie that you having needs is bad. But I understand, deeply, the need to protect ourselves from feeling that way.

AG

i'm hating on myself as well, so you're not alone, AG. slowly, the realizatin that i have needs is sinking in. the next step is to accept that they are valid and have meaning.

the struggle continues. i saw a quote on myshrink that goes something like "if you don't change your direction, you may end up where you're headed". that's speaking volumes for me right now. i know i need to change, but i dawdle i think because i don't know what that change looks like. maybe i'm a control freak? never considered it. i am in charge and i am scared to death because i don't know what i'm doing. so, the white flag went up and i sent an email asking for an appointment. and i'm feeling sick all over again it had to be done. and now i feel like a drama queen. thanks for reading my pathicness, if you did, and i'm sorry for it.

tomorrow's wednesday and then i see him thursday!
have no clue what the session will bring, or what i will bring to it...

((CD)) How are you feeling about your upcoming session? I don't think you're pathetic at all. I think therapy is *&*%&@# hard.

(((CD))) You'll be in my thoughts today hope all goes gently. I know the 'or what I will bring to it... ' thing!