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14 replies

What's it okay for a T to say?

wynnewynneMember
So, I had a general question, brought on (of course) by a specific situation.

I say Tfella yesterday, and we talked about my trip home to my fam. I told him that it was pretty much awesome, because unlike the time I'd gone home and my dad was just sitting and staring and drooling and I felt guilty 'cause I was happier, *deep breath, long sentence*, _this time_ I felt better about how he was acting because he couldn't seem to get mad, and was not just sitting and drooling. The meds his psychiatrist has him on just... won't let him stay mad. It's pretty much awesome, from my (only slightly guilty) perspective.

My dad was still horrendously inappropriate and weird, of course. My in-the-German-army German cousin had come into town for the funeral, and my dad joked about swatiskas and Nazis and Gestapo for a while (to Cousin's face), gone off on tangents, told ridiculous stories that don't actually match what happened at _all_ (example: dangerous situation story #12. He mixes up who's in danger: it was actually my mom who was nearly killed, he says it was him). And he was lying up a storm, of course - kid-like lying. (Example: Mom: "Did you take the money that was in the envelope on the table?" Him: "No." Three days later: "Is this an envelope stuffed with money on your desk?" Him: "Yes." "Did you take it off the table three days ago?" Him: "Um, yes. I ... I wanted to make sure there was enough money to, like, pay bills [unrealistic, money was dead aunt's]." Us: (silent, but inside: !(&#%)(#&*$#_)(*#&$#)*&*(#@$*)(!!!!!!!" )

So My Tfella said, after I finished a few of these tidbits - "You know your dad is crazy, right?" *world stops turning on its axis* Me: "Um, what? I... I don't understand." Tfella: "Crazy, loony, loopy, out-to-lunch, checked out, not in the game, psychotic, insane." Me: "Um... *thinking, dude, can you really say that?* "Really?" Tfella: "Well, it's not an official diagnosis, but...yeah. And I'm not disrespecting your dad or anything. I just want to make sure we're on the same page." Me: *flabbergasted silence* Tfella: "Like, he's not in connection with reality, he's not sure what's going on, he confuses himself with other people, he's psychotic, he has reactions that seem to have nothing to do with what's going on..." Me: "Oh, yeah. That. Sure!"

Can Ts really _say_ those things? I mean... I thought that they're not supposed to take sides and stuff, right? And I suppose acknowledging that someone isn't in connection with the real isn't _exactly_ a side... I'm all confuzzled.

Anybody have a similar Thing? Or...something?

*Disclaimer* My Tfella does not actually say, "Like." Wink
Original Post

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justme 2justme 2Member
Hi Wynne,
It sounds like your T spoke what may have been an unspoken but obvious truth in your family and that may have made you feel uncomfortable. I can’t say that it was a good idea for him to say that or not, it all depends on how that translates for you over time. But if it makes you uncomfortable in any way, I would certainly address this with him.

And BTW: A T DOES take sides…YOURS. Big Grin They become your ally and they always tell you the truth. They don’t tell you things that would hurt you though. So you need to determine how what he said affected you and be honest about it. One of the many useful things we learn in therapy is how to work through relationship difficulties.
JM
thedudethedudeMember
interesting... when I was talking about my sister to my T the other week, she made a comment about my sister being 'generally unsportive as usual'... later she asked how I felt about her (my T) making thatkind of comment as usually she doesn't do so!

I think our T's are supposed to both support us, but also NOT make judgements about those around us/ in our families!

I personally think she crossed that line.

Robin
I incognitoMember
Hi Wynne,

I had a similar thing happen not with T but with my weight loss doctor who referred me to T. He a medical doctor but he books 50 min. appt and talks a lot about you and your eating and deeper reasons for eating as well as prescribe medicine. Before I started seeing my T I felt like he was a T. Anyway, this summer I was telling him my parents were coming home (they travel for 3 months in the summer and 3 months in the winter) and I was more stressed and eating more. He asked me a few questions and I told him one story that illustrates our relationship and he says "She has narcississtic personality disorder, the only way to survive is to enforce strict boundaries and cut her off if she crosses them." I was horrified. Who diagnoses a major personality disorder from a story.

So when I next see my T, I tell him the story and he reacts by saying does it really matter what label we give your mother we need to develop a way for you to be in a relationship with her. No people can't be diagnosed by proxy but narcissists almost never come in for diagnosis because they are always right and if they do show up for therapy it is usually for them to blame someone else and they leave therapy if they are pushed about themselves. Long story short he never actually disagrees with the other doctor he just wants to focus on how I relate to my mother without labels.

So maybe JM is right and he just felt he was putting into words what was clearly true for you. I realized after some reflection that my mother at least has narcississtic tendencies which have really screwed me up and it just shocked me because I wasn't able to see she didn't care about me as a person. It was like a personal attack.

I think you can talk to your T about how you felt. If he was attacking your dad, if he was attacking you because you didn't ever realize he was crazy, if you feel you've been wasting your time expecting him to act sane because he can't.

I just realized I don't know that much about your life and your relationship with your dad so if I'm completely off base please ignore my comments and forgive me. I am trying to give you feedback but may be projecting too much from my own life.

I hope clarity comes from somewhere on this and other issues.
riverriverMember
T's are there to listen and support us but they also have to tell us the hard truths. I fought against it at first but now I depend on my T to tell me the things that no one else will whether or not I like it. I think T's have to take this risk all the time. Sometimes there just isn't time to do it gently or subtly. Sometimes they just have to cut through the shit and call it like they see it. Is it risky? Yes. Do they risk hurting us or pissing us off so we quit? Yes. Is is necessary for them to take these risks to help us break through all of the lies we have been told all of our lives? Yes! Believe me I don't like it either. Often it is a bitter pill to swallow or she may be completely off base. Then it is my job to to ask what she means, set her straight if necessary, or humbly admit that she is right and I have been in serious denial.

I am still having to come to terms with my parents complete lack of ability to see and/or acknowledge how much my sister abused me as a child and how they did so little to protect me. This was a hard truth I learned in therapy. I always thought I had a normal, happy childhood and I resented my T at first for "taking that away from me." But what she did really (and I see this now after many years of work) was pulled my head out of the sand.

Remember, T's are human's too. They have their own funky stuff that they deal with and have their own unique personalities and ways of doing things that will not always gel with us. They have to sort and shift through everything we say and somehow see the bigger picture. Then they have to decide where we are at and how much we are going to be able to handle. Impressively, most of the time my T is right on the money. But if she isn't I am amazed at how open and receptive she is when I complain to her about something she said I didn't like. You can do that in therapy! It is really a relationship like no other in this world. I also have to remember that their goal is ultimately to work themselves out of a job so we can fly on our own.
justme 2justme 2Member
Wow, River. That is amazingly insightful. I like how you admit that our T’s all have their own stuff and unique personalities and ways of doing things that may not always gel with us. Right now I am experiencing a shift of some sort with my T. My last session was not a feel good session to say the least, and it was followed by an even less satisfying extensive phone call later on that night. What it boils down to is what I want from my T she can’t give to me the way that I want her to. I want a quick fix and that just doesn’t exist so, I am having to suffer through the pain of my emotions and no amount of verbal validation and love is going to change that. We have hotly debated this and I am finally realizing the truth of her words that as much as she’d like to just fix it for me, she can’t and that it would be detrimental to me in the long run if she tried. So it’s like you said, they really do know what is best for us. We just need to trust that. Keep challenging them as we see the need, but usually they are the ones who are right. Roll Eyes
wynnewynneMember
All of this has been amazingly helpful. Smiler I really appreciate the look at other examples and experiences you all have had: as always, it's easier for me to see a useful example of a similar experience when it's someone else's. Smiler

And I also finally remembered what started the business in the first place: I was talking to Tfella about how I said the trip home went great, best trip home ever, 'cause my dad mostly ignored me and was yet not drooling in the corner (guilt!) but also couldn't get mad. I then said that the rest of what I had to deal with while I was home was just "normal family stuff." I imagine that's what set Tfella goin', as it were.

JM, it wasn't an unspoken truth: I honestly didn't know this stuff was weird until only a very little bit ago, and I'm still not sure what's strange or crazy about the way my dad acts/acted and what's just How People Are. But you're right, that makes it all the more valuable (as River said fantastically) and that Tfella _was_ putting into words what I've just started to feel is true, like incognito said. I can see what you mean also, Robin, about feeling like a T crossed a line, but I in the end agree with what Tfella was saying.

The Tfella's statement was just so clearly true that hearing it was a shock, and it felt like my brain stopped working again.

And River, I think that you're particularly right when you suggest that I in some ways am having trouble "wasting time" waiting for my dad to act normal - though maybe not quite in the way you meant. I've told Tfella several stories of Things At Home Gone Bad, and at times he's asked me how it could have gone differently, and I can't answer. I can't see it happening any other way. So Tfella's suggested a few ways (they're scenarios where my dad acts reasonably), and it's really helped me gain a perspective on what I might someday have wanted him to have done (how's that for a convoluted tense?) At present, I'm not even in a place where I can want my dad to have acted differently, because I can't imagine it except in those few moments when Tfella mentions how it could have been different.

I imagine this is the sort of thing I'm going to be angry about someday. Smiler
justme 2justme 2Member
quote:
I honestly didn't know this stuff was weird until only a very little bit ago, and I'm still not sure what's strange or crazy about the way my dad acts/acted and what's just How People Are.

We can only see the world through the lens we were given shortly after birth and through the reinforcement of what we came to know from our experiences thereafter. All of us see the world through our own peculiar filters not knowing there was any other way to see it or anything else to see. Therapy is what will give us a new lens on life. Smiler
justme 2justme 2Member
Ok, I just can’t help myself. The fact that I tend to find humor in the oddest places could have a lot to do with it being my coping mechanism while growing up in my own “pseudo-normal environment.”

I hope no one finds this quote from the Austin Powers movie personally offensive:

Dr. Evil: The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium ... My mother was a fifteen year old named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really...."
justme 2justme 2Member
I'm kind of afraid it borders the offensive line. I hope I took out anything that can be considered vulgar and in violation of the rules. I will gladly erase it if I did.

But I love the part where he says his father would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. THAT'S MY DAD! For real!

I so relate to it and it describes the filters we were talking about before. If you don't know any better it is normal.
wynnewynneMember
quote:
Originally posted by Just Me:
So you need to determine how what he said affected you and be honest about it.
JM


Heh. JM, I'm at the point where I couldn't name what how he said affected me: it's one of the things I'm working on. S'why (I imagine) I generally post things by narrating them like I do: it's easier, and I don't have to figure out how to say what I was feeling. Generally 'cause I don't know/am not sure.

Interesting tidbit? After I left my 'rent's place, I was driving home through rain on a trafficky turnpike, and I suddenly realized that I was _much_ more relaxed and generally suffused with what it took me 40 minutes to realize was intense relief. That's right. Driving in the dark and rain on a crowded turnpike=more relaxing than being home.

But it took me a long time to figure out what I was feeling! Figuring out what I was feeling when Tfella said this feels nigh on impossible atm. And to that? A hearty boo!

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