If you want to know what is the point of your therapy, you could go and reread some of your own posts where you said it better than I ever could.

Honestly, you probably shouldn't judge your life OR your therapy when you are sick! I have a cold right now, too, and of course I'm questioning what I'm doing in T school and whether I'll ever succeed in becoming a good T. It's because I feel like crap and I'm in a lousy mood.

Your job does sound pretty bad, though. Maybe it's time to see a career counselor for a few sessions in addition to your T?

(((TN))) It is easy to feel despair and be overwhelmed while trying to heal, it's difficult stuff. But try to remember you don't always feel this way.

And as far as what's the point, someone just asked this in a comment on my blog, so I'm going to copy that answer here, if that's ok:

quote:

It’s fine to ask, its a perfectly reasonable question. First off, I want to say that I truly recognize that the choices I have made are right for me, but that does not mean they would be right for someone else. When it comes to dealing with the pain of trauma, I think a person has a right to decide how far they will go and how much pain they want to face. It might not be worth it for someone. And I am certainly not going to tell someone who has been through that kind of pain that they need to do more. I truly respect and accept what someone decides to do.

The reason I felt the loss and grieving were worth is, is that I feel like I lived in a cage of my own devising, still trapped in the loss in some ways. Because there was so much unprocessed loss that felt overwhelming to face, that meant that any situation that reminded me of that loss had to be avoided (unconsciously mostly) which meant that my life was circumscribed by what felt safe (which considering my history had a VERY small footprint). I got tired of holding down the pain, and the memories and not being able to live as full a life as I wanted to. So while I stand by what I said about how painful the work is, in my case, the freedom from having to hold down the unprocessed feelings and being able to step out and risk more have been worth it. I see myself so much differently and know myself so much better which provides a sense of efficacy and assurance. The best way for me to convey the feeling is that life used to feel like it was all in shades of gray and now there is a vibrancy of full color. Hope that helps.

But no matter what you decide, trust yourself to know what is best for you, even if it looks different from other people’s chosen paths (including mine!). It’s your life, and your choice and you have a right to make it. And your worth as a person is the same no matter how you decide to handle it.

And one more from a post. Our connections with other human beings are how we find meaning in life and our relational abilities are often left stunted and damaged by trauma, so healing increases our ability to have better relationships which provides meaning. It's why the attachment to our Ts can be such a powerful force:

quote:

While human cultures, mores, beliefs and customs change, human beings do not. There is a reason we can look at, and be moved, by a piece of art conceived and executed thousands of years ago. Human beings have always, and probably always will, struggle to understand ourselves and our purpose, to make sense of our experiences and distill meaning out of our lives. And one of the most important ways that we do this is to connect with other human beings. We can only know ourselves in relationship, by being clearly reflected by another person. So it is these connections, these attachments, that evoke our most powerful feelings.

And I agree with BLT, the best thing you could do is go read some of your own posts.



AG

Thank you both for your responses but "go read your own posts" is not clear. Am I reading my posts/responses to others or posts i write about myself and sessions?

I know everyone's reasons and journey is different. I also know that you are supposed to learn about yourself in relationship with others (i.e. therapist). And I know my T tries to reflect back to me who I am... the problem is that I just don't believe him. It does not match what I've been told about myself by others all my life and what I am continually told about myself at work. I try to take in what he says and it does not "compute" and gets spit out as not true because of all the other negative messages that cause interference.

Lastly, I struggle with the outcome of my previous attempt at change and coming into myself. I may have still had a lot of work to do but in my third year with oldT I began to bloom and I felt the changes. I went back to school, I was able to "play" more, I spent more time outside, I felt optimistic about life. The result was that I was abandoned and abused and that experience left me with PTSD on top of complex PTSD. I think that somehow this is connected. That moving ahead, finding myself and feeling optimistic is wired into my brain as DANGER ... SOMETHING BAD IS GOING TO HAPPEN NOW. I have tried to talk to T about this connection but that conversation didn't really go anywhere.

Thanks for your input.

TN

What I see as the point is to eventually notice when I'm triggered, break old "programs" through that noticing, and have me be shaped both by a past I can accept (though never approve of) and a present where I can (at least most of the time) mastery over my own life.

For me it came in the hurtful words from my T of "Sometimes you don't need to make up a story."

I think it's important to understand where our feelings come from, how our patterns were made, and how to manage those (after processing so they are less intense in time). Often now, when I'm triggered with trust and my T and deciding that it's because if a, b, c in my past T has helped me learn to interrupt with and accept "okay, I'm doing that thing again." This keeps me rooted in the present while I'm in the past as well.

It SUCKS that you are not being appreciated at work - with how much time we invest and how much it is our identity... Of corse we take it in, and the feedback is about "who" we are. That said, feeling bad about ourselves is natural but I think what perpetuates it is focusing on the story. "I'm bad and it's the fault if my work not being recognized, and because in my past I wasn't recogniZed either!" All those things can be/are true triggers - however, focus on the feelings through looking at them, determining where they come from... then figure out a next step. Sometimes I feel like when I focus on the past that may have caused things I'm torturing myself, constantly making sure I re-live and re-live and re-live the trauma.

It's comfortable and safe there because we are used to it. Removing why we feel a certain way and replacing it with accepting we feel a certain way (and that it will change) and focusing on that (with Ts help) I truly think is the point. I don't want to spend the rest of my life blaming everything I feel or explaining away everything I feel on some uncontrolled or unchangable history, I just want to explore and recognize my feelings... Which I'm learning and it's hard as hell to learn when the messages we tell ourselves are continually confirmed and our hurt hearts and anxious minds play them again and again... It is a very slow process.

I too think you should read your own posts where you experience a rupture repair and you can see the processing of feelings and removal of the then/why/past to the right now.

I think in long term therapy especially... We are haunted by the past, we live in the past, and fear the horrible future that may be the same... That we must prepare ourselves for. My T helps hold me in the present while I'm stuck on the past so... I figure she spends so long on it.. That's gotta be the point?

((((TN))))

I think therapy is working for you. Wow look at all you do for your company and they don't appreciate it? That sucks. But they will never appreciate all you do for them no matter how hard you try. It's a sick and unhealthy culture you work in.

So the reason I say I think therapy is working is that you are starting to get pissed off enough to start appreciating yourself and realizing you are super smart and valuable and capable and should be told so by an employer.

The thing is. You won't be able to get that from your employer. And maybe that's what therapy can help you accept. It might take some risks on your part to get out there and find someone else who will appreciate you. It might take a while to find a good fit. But you deserve it.

I'm so sorry TN. I know how much it sucks to be under appreciated at work. I solved that one by quitting. I felt vindicated when they had to hire two people to replace me. I know that's not an option for everyone but let yourself get creative in how you think about this crappy situation.

As for therapy. I think it's like aging. You don't see it happening but when you look back at old photographs, you realize how much you've changed. And how much better you look in those new high heels! Keep going. You're doing the work and growing even if, at times, it feels pointless. ((((TN))))

( Monte ) Thanks for your post. Your words were perfect for me to hear on this day. Thanks for your eloquence and knowledge.

(TN),

I have been absent for most of this year from the forum. I have had yet another epic rupture with T (all this year). Too big, complex and ugly to mention. Basically I burnt her out and she made a few changes that I went with screaming and kicking and they didn't work for me. They were all in T's favour. I had very dark times. We changed how we did things and we persisted.

The past few weeks have been unbearable - I have been sedated for days at times to cope. I emailed her that I was stopping therapy because it was too cruel and she was making it unbearable for me and it wasn't working. I cancelled my sessions. We were at an impasse. It really was the end. I saw no point in any of it. T would say to me that she didn't know what to do, she would get defensive - another cycle of rupture would happen.

We needed a break. We needed anger. We needed tears. I sought outside help. Another T came from a different angle, different questions, different perspective. Offered me support and a place to fall. She encouraged me to keep talking - she gave me questions to ask, pushed me to be brave - sent me back into the battlefield.

Today I asked the hard questions. I was brave. I stuck up for myself. I told T what wasn't working and why and what would work for me. I asked for a lot. We renegotiated. We made a path forward. I left her today feeling the best I have ever felt. I stuck up for me - the adult and the abused little child, T and I connected and we made a plan. We admitted our faults, analysed the wrong assumptions we both made, we created a future. It was mutual, it felt genuine.

The reasons I do therapy is to have a connection to another human and in that process to heal the past damage. I realise that I don't have a sense of me, that I think I am unloveable and that I was given a life - but all I do is exist - I am not living my life - I breath and I am alive and I wait to die. I see other people around me getting enjoyment out of life and having fun, having fulfilment - and living - and I have absolutely NO idea how to go about that. That is what I want. I have wasted most of my life and I need my T to teach me how to start living. For me that is what therapy is. That is the reason. That is the point for me.

Big hugs to you. I wish your work situation would improve, I wish you weren't feeling such feelings.

I wanted to share this with you to tell you that days, weeks ago - I felt there was no point to it all - but things turned around for me but it was really painful and difficult. But it did turn around and I feel more positive about my future - for me and with my T. I hope you find that too.

SD.

Thank you Cat for what you wrote. It made a lot of sense and gave me something to talk about with T. Please don't take it down. I appreciate your effort to share this.

Thanks, Liese, for the support and pointing out that I'm starting to get angry about work now. That is true.

Monte...thank you for telling me about your work with T. I always appreciate that. I found it important to read how you are really digging into the basic and vital core issues and how hard and messy that can be. I think you have been enormously courageous in this recent work you are doing with T. Thank you for the encouragement.

Hey RT... I LOVE that your work had to replace you with TWO people. That must have been so satisfying to see happen. I wish I could quit tomorrow but I need to have something else lined up first. And my area does not have a lot of opportunity or choice. I need to work close to home because of my young son. But someday I will walk out of here and feel good about it. And thanks for the push to keep working in therapy. Hugs.

SD... sending a bunch of hugs to you. Thank you for sharing about your disruption and bumpy journey back to the relationship with your T. I truly understand how difficult it is for you. And I feel the same way. I look around and people are living life while I exist or while I struggle to survive another day. That is when I wonder what the point is. I'm so thrilled to hear that you have found hope and know what the point of this is. That is huge. I hope things continue to move ahead for you in a good way and you are able to enjoy living and life by participating in it and not just seeing others live it.

Draggers... sweetie. Thank you for writing. What you say always helps me. I appreciate you pointing out the growth in me that you have seen. It's so hard to see this when you are in the middle of it. And yes, even though I have come to terms with losing OldT there is still a legacy of damage that he left and I'm trying to deal with and get past. I don't miss him but I do struggle with trust and the very subliminal feeling that interfere with my relationship with my T. Thank you and hugs.

I got news that my aunt died the other day. She was a favorite aunt of mine. She never had kids and looked at her nieces as her kids. I have some nice memories of things we did and the times we spent together. Her wake is today and tomorrow. I am going today. I emailed yesterday for permission to leave early today to attend the wake. The response I got back was that we are shorthanded and that I need to give more notice when I need to take time off. WTF?!!! How can I know when someone in my family is going to DIE? It's not like I'm taking time off to get my hair done. Not ONE word of condolence.

Thanks again everyone
TN

TN, I am so sorry life sucks right now. Your work situation sounds like hell. I am also sorry about your aunts death. I am glad you are going to her wake. It is an important ritual to attend. Screw your workplace. They don't deserve to have good employees. Thinking of you.

TN, you work with jerks, clearly.

What a horrible toxic situation for you. I think working in a hostile, unhelpful, damaging environment is wearing on everyone but especially awful for people trying to heal from trauma. I can see how this would just exacerbate feelings of worthlessness - like an arrow going straight to the bullseye.

I have to say, I'm outraged on your behalf. Most modern management training incorporates the concept of the best leaders being the people who are emotionally intelligent as well as business savvy and value their staff and people's differences.

To be told you're only doing your job so you shouldn't praised or thanked? It's utter rubbish and should have gone out with the ark. Virtually no one thrives on a diet of indifference. Also, I don't believe for one second that you are 'just doing your job'. There's a difference between getting it done and getting it done well. I've managed enough people to know the difference.

I'd like to tell your employer that 1950 called to say they want their 'how to get the most of your employees guide' back.

Um, so, that was enough righteous anger from me. I am so, so, sorry things are tough.

Lastly, I struggle with the outcome of my previous attempt at change and coming into myself. I may have still had a lot of work to do but in my third year with oldT I began to bloom and I felt the changes. I went back to school, I was able to "play" more, I spent more time outside, I felt optimistic about life. The result was that I was abandoned and abused

I wanted to say that this really resonates with me. Different scenario but I spent 2 years in therapy trying to work through some serious trust issues and once I'd tentatively put my trust in someone I wound up getting let down in way that couldn't have been purposely designed to be more traumatic. I had some very similar feelings of danger and trepidation when I attempted to put the pieces back together again. Worse, I had a really negative inner voice ragging on me that I had been stupid, stupid, stupid, to trust in the first place and why would I be that stupid again and it would be my own stupid naive fault if I got dumped on my a** again. Ugh.

Thinking of you xx

((tN)) I won't delete.... You know me too well, eh? I hope you're feeling okay today.

I wanted to agree with Mallard. If they ever would like some leadership and employer development boot camp I'll consult with them for free. Or charge triple my hourly as punishment to ship you (well and me too, I'd be jealous) to Tahiti... People quit people sometimes more than their actual job description. Jerks.

((((TN))))

Sorry to be late to this, but I too am saddened that your bosses can treat you like this, a thank you and words of encouragement and praise cost nothing but can make so much difference I know. We all need feedback and it must be disheartening when you work so hard and are so capable

I am sorry too to hear about your aunt's death; I am so sorry you weren't allowed to go to the wake. Is there a company handbook? Over here most organisations/businesses have rules as to how much compassionate leave staff are entitled to - I know I would always let staff have compassionate leave for a close family member's death, I am so sad you couldn't pay your respects in that way

Gentle hugs to you,

starfishy

I think its hard during any kind of stressful period, especially work or family, to feel that anything is going right. Hopefully your work situation will improve TN and like your T suggested, perhaps therapy will help it to improve.

As for the "point," for me it is to feel understood and cared for which gives me the courage to try new things and grow as well as changing internally. I think the "point" may be different for each individual. Because I've had several previous therapy experiences which weren't that productive, I try to be more objective in assessing my progress and journaling or saving emails I've written about therapy have helped me to see that progress. I think its reasonable and important to look back and expect to have made and seen changes or progress after say months or therapy.

I don't keep up with these message boards as much as others, but I would second the thoughts of others that your posts seem more confident and have evolved over time in a positive way. Your insights about therapy the risks you've taken, have encouraged many of us on this board and I suspect have helped people persevere in their own journies.

I, too, am sorry for your loss. I hope you are figuring out some way to get closure. It's been a difficult task for me.

I've thought of a "point" for you. It's purely selfish on my part - but it demonstrates your impact on the world.

When I post something on the boards here, I am always delighted when certain people respond to the post. You are one of those people. I think you have a lot of insight into things I also struggle with. That's important to me. Sometimes the point is simply sharing your growth and experience with others. You do that.

Hugs (((TN)))

(And to everyone else, there are several of you out there whose comments are very welcome and appreciated. Actually all are welcome but some have experience that speaks more directly to my struggles.)

-RT

Hi RT... that was a lovely thing to say and to tell me about. I actually think that is a good "point". I have always felt good about helping others, especially those who struggle in therapy, particularly with losing or being abandoned by a T. I can relate to the pain but also I know there is some peace and healing to be found at the end of the dark tunnel. That is what is so hard to believe or hang onto when you are in the middle of it.

Hi Elly... it's really nice to see you here. I do at times go back to old posts and emails to T and I can see how things have improved. Things were SO dark 3 years ago. I was barely present and the pain was bad. I know my T has been such a valuable resource to get me to this place and things are better for me. I just get lost sometimes. And sometimes that makes me so angry with T and he keeps telling me to do things that seem impossible for me to do. And the other half of the time I just don't believe enough (in him, in me and in the process). It's so hard to come back from therapy betrayal to trust a T again. I think you and many others can relate to that.

Hi starfishy... I'm sorry if I was misleading about my aunt's wake. I did attend even though I got that rude response from my supervisor. I left and took vacation time. They would not allow bereavement time. So be it. It was important for me to be there for closure and to have that little ritual. I didn't go to C's wake or funeral and it has haunted me since. I'm still working on closure with that although my T has been indispensable in helping me grieve that loss. And you are correct, it does not cost anything to give praise for a job well done. In fact, when people feel appreciated and valued they give more back. But my manager is too stupid to understand this. He is too arrogant and egotistical to understand.

Becca thank you for the support and for saying that. I totally agree.

Hi Mallard, you are correct. My office is SO politically incorrect and even in violation of federal laws of workplace behavior. The problem is that no one does anything. I work for a large public corporation but my office is like the wild west. Abuse and harassment is overlooked and chalked up to "you know how X is, you just have to learn to get along with him". There is verbal abuse and sexual harassment and bullying in that office. I actually reported my manager to Human Resources and they were worthless and it only made things much worse for me because of blatant retaliation that I have experienced. HR is worthless and there is no one who cares about the non-management staff. And the staff is so cowed that no one will stand up for themselves. This is a very difficult environment for someone with trauma history. I totally understand when you talk about that negative inner critic/voice. Mine is so loud. It literally stops me in my tracks when I begin to feel some hope flowering in me. I go immediately to that horrible betrayal by oldT. Just when I began to grow and to trust and to heal it was all yanked away from me. It's like a huge wall that is in front of me and I know there is no way I can get through it or climb over it.

CAT... LOL at the Tahiti idea. Sounds wonderful.

UPDATE WITH SESSIONS: When I saw T last Thursday we talked a bit more about work and I told him about that wall of fear that stops me from healing or trying to grow and change. It's like I failed and I don't have the right to try again or to actually feel that feeling again. It should never have been mine in the first place. T says that my past trauma and abuse history makes me a target for those who abuse. He only said a little about it but he said it's obvious in my non-verbals and the way I carry myself or the way I interact with others that makes me a target. He was not specific and I hope he will help more with that because I don't see what I'm doing to attract all the negativity. He said that his job is to make me strong. He is not there to make me happy but to make me so strong that no one will ever abuse me again. And once I can stand up for myself and keep those who are abusive away from me then I will be strong enough to make myself happy. He said all of this with such vehemence that it was striking and it really penetrated my usual haze of denial or fear.

Today I greeted T with a smile. I missed him a lot over the weekend. Maybe going to my aunt's wake made me more thoughtful and pensive. I told him I missed him and said that while I can't say I'm "happy" to see him, I AM relieved to be with him. He laughed because he tells me that he is waiting for the day I can say/feel happy to see him. I told him I don't do "happy" so this is the best I can say for now. He said "of course, feeing happy would just ruin your depression"

I told him that I had a dream about C and he wanted to hear it. I told him that I was at the cemetery to visit his spot in the wall there. It's sort of like an outdoor mausoleum and I am holding rosary beads that I want to give him and leave there so he will have them. I am contemplating where I can hang them and a little worried that they will be safe there. Then I realize the rosary beads are from my first communion. T was very interested in the dream and pointed out that it was the child who was offering the rosary beads. They were hers. He felt it was a small sign of some integration. I'm not so sure. He said that he is seeing some things that make him even more sure of my basic health and my ability to heal. I told him I am neutral at best about that.

I showed him some pictures of my aunt and told him that it was good to be able to talk to him about her. He said I can talk to him about anything I want. I also told him that I had other childhood pictures of me and my family that I wanted to share with him but it would have to be another day since we are running out of time. I told him I had some trepidation about sharing them because I tend to have a bad reaction after I try something like that. He said we would be thoughtful about it before sharing and we can talk further about it. He asked me what made me fearful and I just said that I was afraid he would see something bad and he would not tell me and I would not know what he was thinking. He said that he has always "seen" me for who I am and nothing will change his opinion of me. Certainly not anything in a picture. It still unsettles me that he "sees" me and I can't hide from him. I do a lot of hiding in my life because that is how I have always made myself feel safe.

I left him feeling okay. Just missing him again. It is so hard for me to hold onto the end of our sessions. I begin to fade away when time is up and then I feel like I don't have anything to hold onto until the next time I see him. No matter how hard I try I lose memory of those endings. I guess I have not conquered my separation anxiety yet.

Thanks for reading.
TN

I just thought of other stuff we talked about yesterday. I was talking about C and how much I loved working in the wine business. How important it became to me and I loved it. I was telling T how I learned so much on my own about it and this was before the internet so I spent my time doing library research and then talking wine Importers all over the country. How I learned to work around the differing lawas in each state and how exciting it was to finally be successful in finding an importer for C and how wonderful it felt to tell him. But how sad that it's all lost now. Gone. Over. I got very teary and T did too. I don't often see that kind of emotion on his face but I definitely noticed it this time and tried to take it in.

I think some of this also plays into having had something so good and wonderful and that gave me self confidence and self esteem and then also... suddenly losing it. Losing C and everything. It just adds to that wall that keeps me from moving forward again in fear that something else bad will happen.

TN

((((TN))))

Loss is really hard. Thinking of you.

sb

Thanks, SB. I'm not sure what I wrote is cohesive because I feel like there is so much swirling around in my head I'm not sure where to start. But writing about some of it helped.

Thanks for your support.

TN