Hi TN
Throw in a curly question why don't you???

My T and I have discussed this also - she was concerned about my reaction - but I just said "say hello" and if by chance, I was with someone (highly unlikely as I don't have family in this state let alone town) and they asked 'who was that?" I'd tell them it was my psychologist! I've met one of her daughters and she just introduced me as 'Morgs' ( of course her daughter knew the relationship!)

I think (a) if just a meeting of eyes with him, quietly acknowledge him and hopefully vice versa (b) if you 'all' ie both families just about ran into each other physically, be bold and say "hi" - his wife would/should understand such situations and your DH (like most maybe) probably wouldn't notice, but if he did (c) if everyone did notice, I'd just let introductions happen, like Dr. so and so this is my H and son - he may or may not do likewise!!

Well, I realise that was about as helpful as teats on a bull!! but it's all I can offer TN from my 'limited' perspective.

I guess I'm "lucky" that my T is only in my area two days a week and his wife and family live a couple hours away. Also, his sons (I'm not sure how many he has) are all grown up, so I doubt there would be opportunity to run into anyone, but him, for example if he was getting lunch in the local shopping center and I happened to be there too. But...I don't think T has time to leave for lunch. So, IF I were in your position, TN, I'd probably feel, "T, if you are with your family, I really don't want to interrupt or invade that private time. A little wave would be sufficient. However, if it's just you, please come and say hello." My reasoning? If he's with his family, I really would feel awful. If he didn't acknowledge me at all, I would feel worse, and project ridiculous things like he's upset with me. If he's alone, I wouldn't feel so invasive and an actual hello would help me know he was happy to "see" me and not irritated or any of the other things I would project.

My T is from the same community where my parents live, and where I grew up, not far from my house. She has already said that she often runs into people at her place of worship (lots of clients also go there) at restaurants, etc. She said, like many of you posted, that she follows the lead from her clients.

I would say hi, nice to see you, and be friendly. I would not ask how are you, as if she asked me, I wouldn't want to answer honestly, most likely. Quick hello, good to see you, and on my way. If she was with her family, I might do a smile and nod to acknowledge them, and then move on. No introductions, please!

Right now, though, I could handle running into her, but I would freak if I saw her family. After my google-stalking issue in February, I'm not ready for that to happen!

Thank you all for those very thoughtful replies.

It WAS really hard to interact with oldT's wife and son ... but I think the hardest times (when I give it some thought) were the times when it happened within the therapy room itself. It was not so bad if we were out at a camp meeting or open house or even in reception. It was actually very interesting to watch my T on a few occassions playing with his son and then having MY son join in with them. Gave me so much to think about and connect with and I was very willing to "go there" in session but OldT was pretty resistant to those discussions and I would hit a wall which made me feel really "icky".

With my new T, I am leaning towards saying hi and even stopping for introductions if we meet out and about in town. Because we are away from his office (i.e. my safe space) it would not cause me difficulty. Since I never call him "Dr.---" It would be natural to introduce him with first name last name and would not have to explain our connection there on the spot to my family. I work in an industry where I have a lot of my own clients and it's pretty normal for me to run into my clients at stores and in town and my family would just assume it was a client. As for me, I have no issue with him telling HIS family I was a client of his.

I would be more curious than disturbed to meet his family. He does have a pic of his daughter on his desk. He is very proud of her. I like that. So I'm leaning towards telling him that ... we would all stop say hello and do the brief introductions and then talk about... the weather LOL... or the town feast or art exhibit... whatever we are doing and then move along... you know like...beautiful day for a feast or the art here is surprisingly good... well enjoy... take care... blah blah....

Oh, and we would DEFINITELY discuss it at my next session with him. I know he would be totally open to hearing my feelings and thoughts and would help me make sense of anything i was feeling or any connections I was dealing with. That is one huge difference with him and oldT.

I see him tomorrow and I'm feeling an odd mix of can't want to see him and feeling a bit scared about some stuff coming up. I know it will be okay but I'm feeling so scattered lately it's hard to talk to him for some reason and this thing has been weighing on my mind. So thank you for helping me find some clarity with this issue.

Still open to hearing more comments if anyone out there would like to add them.

Thanks
TN

Glad you were able to resolve how you feel about public greetings. I will be thinking good thoughts for your session tomorrow!!!

quote:

During this time, I asked new P how he handled contact outside of the office. He said he always waits for the client to initiate the contact but once he knows it's okay to speak, he will stop and say hi, even introducing family members to clients. He made it sound as if it's perfectly okay - no big deal, which greatly relieved me because I live only about 5-6 miles from him, and have a feeling it will eventually happen.

Thanks for sharing that FOT... it makes my answer to his homework question feel more acceptable and reasonable. I'm glad the subject came up for discussion with so many of us because it is very worthwhile to explore.

TN

Just getting caught up here. I've been away all weekend and it seems I'm a bit behind!

T and I have not discussed this. I have only run into her outside of her office on a non-therapy day once. I didn't even recognize her (she was in her car) and she was watching me with my kids. She waved.

I'm not sure what she would do if she ran into me in public. I'm guessing if she were alone and I was with family then she would say hi, but probably would wait for me to do so first. I would have no issue introducing her to my family. She's met my H and she's seen pics of my kids. My kids all know her name and who she is so it wouldn't be like letting any secrets out. I'm guessing if we were in public and she were with family or friends that it would get a bit more sketchy. I'm not sure what her policy would be on that. I wouldn't want to make her feel weird, but ignoring her completely would feel weird too. I'm with DF, if I saw her already seated at a restaurant or something then I would probably just smile if she saw me, but definitely would NOT go up to her or make any sort of contact unless she did. Then I imagine that I would feel guilty for even having the coincidence of ending up in the same place at the same time because then I would feel bad that inadvertently I made her think about work when she's supposed to be off. As if I can control that, but still.

We live in different towns though and I'm not often in her town unless I have T even though my best friend lives there. My T occasionally shops in my town and I swear if I bumped into her at a store or something I'd probably pass out. Once I came to, I'd be fine, but I'm sure I would be really shocked.

I live in a somewhat small town. Not necessarily in terms of people, but it's only about 5 square miles! We're stuck up in the mountains.

So, I've seen my T several times. One time I ran into her as I was waiting in line with a friend for a table at a restaurant, and she was leaving. I was mortified, but we still managed to say hi as she was leaving with her husband. She mentioned it briefly in session and was completely fine about it. We've never talked about what we would do if we did run into each other and it wasn't as rushed (to where she would have time to introduce her husband or something), but I have a feeling that she probably would introduce him if we were in that kind of situation. I would feel so, so awkward if I were to meet any other members of her family, though. I know she has at least two sons. I think it's just two. Anyway, since my T is about the same age as my own mother, I think it could be hard to see her with her kids, although I doubt that would happen. I know that one of them is married now, and I think the other one is in college somewhere else.

I've managed to ramble on for a while. But in terms of the questions that your T is asked you, TN...I think it would definitely be more awkward if my T didn't acknowledge me in public. And we would probably talk about the weather, too. We get pretty crazy weather (it's 40 today and is forecasted to be above 70 tomorrow, then back down to 50 the next day), so that would definitely be a topic to fall back on!

Good luck at your session, TN. I'm looking forward to reading an update!

I'm following you around the forum tonight, Kashley!

TN, I look forward to an update too. It's an interesting question for me. I would love to meet my T in person, but most likely never will. I think the nature of our relationship is so different that it's hard to answer the question for me.

But- I can talk about my SD- who I see *all the time* like sometimes three and four times a week outside of sessions. I just spent last Sunday at a mutual friend's house sitting next to him all afternoon! It's lovely, really, very natural. It is a little freaky, as he knows *everything* and no one else does- but he is so professional and detached but friendly and kind and jokey and loving- and the nature of that relationship is spiritual so I guess that might make it a bit different than a therapy relationship? The boundaries are completely different by necessity. idk. I found it *extremely* awkward and difficult to deal with for a *long* time, but in typical BB style just ignored all those feelings, assuming I was wrong to feel them- but now I have just gotten used to it, and I feel really close to him and yes, special to him, but in a very safe protected way, due to his ability to keep *everyone* at arm's length while making them all feel held and cared about at the same time. Just a regular guy, chatting about regular things- you'd never know a thing about the deep intense discussions and crying I've done with him.. I do feel like I am very special to him though, I feel like I'm his kid- and that worries me quite a bit. It won't be an issue for much longer. I definitely don't have negative transference with my SD. I keep that for my T I guess.

TN,

I have been thinking about your homework questions. If I were to run into my T, I would want some form of acknowledgment. Perhaps a simple friendly smile, maybe even a hi! But I wouldn't expect them to stop and talk to me or to introduce me to their family. That is where it would get weird and uncomfortable for me.

Anyway, I think its great that your T is asking you about this and that he has opened the lines of communication with you regarding chance meetings in out of office locations.

I also think its great that you have no issue with him telling his family that you are a client. I'm sure that a lot of Ts worry about that, so I bet he would like to know that (if you haven't already told him that).

Curious to see how your appointment tomorrow goes.

Thank you STRM, Kashley, BB and LG for your coments and for sharing your experiences in this area.

I met with my T today and told him I had done my homework and I told him what decision I had come to. I told him that if we were to meet somewhere outside of the office I would like to stop and say hi and if our families were with us then I'd like there to be introductions. I told him that this would be okay for me because it would all be happening outside of the therapy room, which is my "safe" space. I think I had such a difficult time with oldT's family because I met them while I was sitting in the therapy room/his office when they came in and I met them for the first time. I had less of an issue interacting with them outside of his office. Then I told T that I would not introduce him as my T, just as first name, last name. My family would assume he was one of my clients. Then I said I would expect that we would discuss the meeting at the next session. He applauded me and said I did a good job with that. He only tweaked one thing... he said he would want ME to start the introductions first so it would jog his memory that it was okay with me to meet his family and vice versa. I thought this was a very good point. The man thinks of everything!!

As so after we discussed this we talked about how I was so shut down last week in the next session after I gave him the gift. I had emailed about it and he was very open to exploring the reasons why this happened. I told him that I was so scared that there would be some fallout from the gift that I could not speak at all. I just let him talk and sat and nodded a lot and smiled my fake smile. He apologized for not noticing how shut down I was... he said he knew I was scared and he was trying to allay my fears with talking to me. I told him that I knew down deep I was not reacting to him... he was fine... his usual self but the fear came from my experiences with oldT and it was your basic transference stuff getting in the way. Whenever I would have a really close and deep session with oldT... well then the next session would be rough as he would act all detached and distant from me. In some way I was waiting for my T do to the same thing. So of course, that led to discussion of consistency, how we are doing things differently and how great it is that I can recognize that the feelings of fear were coming from me and my past rather than anything HE was doing to cause it.

After that things got really rough and emotional as I related my past and my own dental trauma and the trauma of my son getting smashed with the baseball bat and breaking his teeth about a year and a half ago. How that made me feel and what it brought back to me. I got really emotional and at a certain point I just stopped talking, frozen, with no words to say. He wheeled himself closer to me and leaned in towards me and asked me... where was the shame? what was it about this whole issue that caused me to close up with shame. He just nailed my emotion. He spoke so kindly and softly to me, like I was a child. He said I told him so much, not to stop, I just needed to finish the sentence, to give him a little bit more. When he moved closer to me I just felt so much safer. Like he would protect me from the horrible feelings. That I didn't scare him and he would not back away but come closer. He was not afraid. I really wanted to lean towards him as well, to get closer but my body would not obey the thought in my head.

He asked me to look at him but I wouldn't/couldn't. I told him I didn't want to and he asked me why not. I told him I didn't want him to see all the damage and bad things inside of me. He said, yes, there is some damage that I carried but we would heal that. He didn't deny my pain or my past. He acknowledged it but said it was okay and we could make it better. That it would heal and that I was starting to heal already. I was asking him why my oldT could be so cruel and hurt me so badly? He said he didn't know and maybe we would never know and that I would probably carry scars from that for a very long time but he stressed that I was getting better, that I was healing and that he knew the pain was getting less with time. He told me that I am healthier than I think and very strong.

I told him I'm not strong. He said that it took real strength for me to give him that candle. I told him I am damaged. He said if I'm so strong and brave while being so damaged he cannot even imagine how strong I am to begin with. He said that he knew he was becoming someone important to me. He is now someone who is more than just a person who is not oldT and does not have oldT's face. He told me that I was strong enough to let him know that.

I'm starting to wonder if that was part of my fear and shutdown on Thursday. That because of giving him the gift I was letting him know that he was so important to me and that is very scary because of what happened with oldT. I ask myself if I am so crazy to do this again? What is wrong with me? And I think that may have had something to do with pushing him away from me. I was testing him in a way. He knew that. He said he's seen me taking significant risks in such a short time in our relationship. And he says that he has really pushed me, and pushed hard at times but I pretty much always respond well. He is proud of me for that. (Gosh, he always says such lovely sounding things to me... he is spoiling me terribly...)

And, of course, my timing is so lousy that I am finally letting all the emotions flow and am crying hard just about the time for the session to end. I'm so exhausted from the emotional roller coaster of finally reaching a place where I can let it all go and then having to stop on a dime and turn off the tears and emotions because time is up. I didn't want to do that today. I needed more time to cry. I knew he would not push me out before I was ready to do but I also knew that he had clients outside waiting. I kept apologizing to him for falling apart and being such a mess. He kept telling me it was okay and not to apologize as I did nothing wrong.

At the end I shook his hand and then walked over to put my blanket away and walked back to get my coat and he was standing there telling me I didn't have to rush as he was not pushing me out and then he extended his hand again. And I took it and shook it for a really long time and looked into his kind blue eyes (which I only recently realized were blue at all... I had a hard time with the eye contact) and I knew we were okay and I could go without worrying about how we ended the session. He patted my arm and I left.

It was REALLY hard going back to work because I was so tired and my eyes were burning and I looked a mess. Right now my feelings are so mixed up... missing him, grieving what I lost, knowing he is there, feeling hopeful but feeling like there is a hole in my chest. It's so hard to take all of this in. I'm so lucky that I found him that it truly scares me because I'm not sure I deserve this.

Thanks for listening.
TN

TN,

Thank you for updating about your session. What a powerful experience you had! I continue to be amazed by your strength and how well you are working with your T. I'm sorry that today was so rough and exhausting, but it sounds like you did some really amazing work!

It's interesting that you mentioned being shut down after giving T the gift. I had a rupture and horrible session with my T the following week after giving her the box we made her at Christmas. I've wondered if there was a connection and I'm really starting to think there was. It is similar to what you described.

I hope you are doing well today and still feeling the connection to your T.

thank you for sharing this, TN- it is so lovely to read of your progress.

BB

Thanks BG... my T is safe for me. I think what really struck me was that he was not scared at all of what was happening. He moved closer not away from me and that made me feel safer. He was able to contain me in a very good way.

STRM... thanks. I am working well with my T and that is partly because he makes it easy to do this kind of work with him. I had to work SO hard with oldT and then I would struggle with the results. Now I can depend on my T. He is so solid.

And yes, I think the fact that you had such a rough session the time after you gave T the gift may have some relevance. That it somehow on an unconscious level triggered something. It bears looking at.

Beebs...thanks for your generous comment. I hope you are doing okay.

Hugs
TN

Thank you, so much, TN for sharing your session. I can feel T's care for you, his attunement, in your words as you describe it. That is great, because it means you are feeling it very deeply to be able to communicate it so strongly! I know it must ache terribly right now, as it always does when we connect strongly and must pull away until our next session. I hope you are able to continue to feel the connection as you wait.

Yaku thanks for commenting. Yeah I do feel the ache of missing my T right now. I wish I could see him tonight but I will see him on Thursday. Thankfully he recognizes my need to see him twice per week (for now) and it's working out pretty well.

I do still have him with me though. When I think of how he was in session with me, I feel held and safe. I even went home yesterday and despite being emotionally exhausted, I played ball outside with my son. He was very happy to have my attention for awhile. I have not really played outside with him since OldT abandoned me. I didn't have the energy or strength to do so.

TN

What a beautiful, powerful session, TN. It is so great to read of the openness and trust blossoming within you in his care. And how amazing that it is already flowing through you to your interactions with your son.

Brava!!

Love,
Jones

quote:

I understand this too TN. It is maybe a sense of being freed to tend to your life. A sense of the little one that you have struggled so hard to look after being tended to by someone who is more able, and this releases you...enables you to focus somewhat on here and now.

Monte thank you for that interpretation. I think you really understand this struggle. The whole idea of having someone wiser and stronger to take care of that young part of me that no one paid attention to and who had to take care of her parents. No one knew that I was screaming for someone to take care of me. My oldT would touch on that and when I would respond he would draw back and away from that longing. My current T... he does not move away from it at all. It is safe to let the littlest parts of me out when I am with him. He understands.

TN

TN
For some reason I don't think I've ever posted on your threads but have read all that happened with oldT and the process of finding this wonderful newT. The healing you've undergone with this man almost leaps off the page - there is a noticable calmness inside you that comes across in everything you share and the way you reach out to others!! It's beautiful to see and to know you're getting what you richly deserve.

I confess to a certain amount of 'envy' TN knowing I'll never have that kind of healing!! I thought the connection was there with my T so that some healing could occur but now feel it won't happen. NOT that I'd ever begrudge anyone's healing - I often shed happy tears reading of the connections people are making with their Ts.

Thank you for sharing everything with us TN - you're inspiring!

Thank you Morgs for contributing to my thread in such a touching way. I almost feel as if I went through that ordeal and abandonment with my oldT so I could share what happened to me and somehow inspire others and offer them hope that I found my way out of the terrible darkness and they can too.

None of this was very easy. And despite having the memories of how I could barely draw breath at times, I'm not sure if I appreciate the absolute despair I was in ... I say this because the ones closest to me seem to recall more clearly than I just how much pain I was in. Perhaps some of the worst was blunted by descending into total numbness to protect myself and allow myself to survive it. My T often tells me how I was in those first few sessions we had, how I would sit there with him looking absolutely terrified of him and of everything that was happening around me. How he never thought I would come back after each session because I was in such awful pain that was caused by someone in his profession. He was amazed that I was willing to try to form a relationship with another T after being so harmed by the last T. And let's not forget when I saw him it was already SIX weeks after the abandonment.

I really do credit him for the gentle yet firm way he treated me in those first weeks. He gave me the boundaries to make me feel safe, yet he offered unlimited (within reason) outside contact. He self-disclosed his own feelings about what happened and what he thought of me. I struggled with not having a regular appointment and with the fact that I was a new client and he had so many other long-time clients that were surely so much more important than I was. Yet slowly and steadily we built something wonderful and special. I truly found my stronger wiser other. And one of the things I love most about him is that he LOVES psychology. He loves his work and much of his work is focused on patients who have suffered prior failed therapies. And he loves talking about psychology and I love it too so we are a good match. He has a wonderful natural intellectual curiosity about people and what makes them tick. He loves knowledge and is always open to what I have to tell him... even if I tell him that he is too full of himself... which I did in the first month !!

So I guess what I'm saying is that healing is possible for any of us. It's not easy and sometimes you have to try new Ts but I feel that if I can heal, then you and anyone else on here can heal. We all deserve to feel peace and to be able to live full lives.

Thank you Morgs for giving me the opportunity to talk a bit more about my T and this new journey that I have begun. I hope I see you post more about your own situation and what you are struggling with. I am sorry to say that I don't know much of your story except that lately you seem to have had a disruption with your T. I hope you can work it out. Please let me know if I can help in any way.

Best,
TN

Thank you for sharing further - everyone draws hope from your story! Thank you also for your offer TN - maybe one day?
Best back
Morgs