quote:

I was such a hate-able waste of space so my defenses are sort of... creeping everywhere. In my session with T I was dizzy, and disoriented and when I got triggered again today I felt really derealized. Bleh!!

You are worthwhile. Thanks for sharing your feelings here with us. I hope you feel better. Hurting yourself won't make anything better. You deserve love and to be loved.

(((((((Cat)))))))
I'm so sorry things are so crappy right now I actually have told my T twice that I quit. Twice. And I did totally quit...f or about two weeks... I have wanted to quit many other times. It always seems to come up for me after being especially vulnerable in sessions. I want to RUN or fight or anything but stay in and keep at it. The last time I wanted to quit, the only thing that helepd me stay was a sense of just simply wanting so bad to not repeat the patterns of the past... and yet there I was, swaying back and forth between numb and anxious to the point of being sick to my stomach... I'm not actually sure what helped. I do know that I keep seeing you changing a lot in very good ways, even despite the setbacks. I know it is hard to see inside of the storm, but you keep making such remarkable progress that it encourages and inspires me to keep holding on.

And, you can quit. I did. Ok, so really, I only took a break and slowed down for two weeks and then jumped back in. Your sense of being so overwhlemed might be a signal to you for something to change - maybe, maybe not. It might be a sign to keep holding on through this rough spot. It might be a sign to take a break and breathe a bit.

Keep fighting the good fight to heal. As someone once said, it is darkest before the dawn. I hope things get much lighter for you very soon.

(((Cat))) I'm sorry. It sounds like you're doing the right things, communicating, reflecting on both valid anger and upset triggering these messages of unworthiness. Usually if a part of me is shouting about quitting inside, I just go ahead and tell my T that very thing. That I want to say, "I f---ing quit! I'm DONE!" but that I am waiting through those feelings for now. Sometimes just identifying the desire (while being very clear that I am NOT quitting, or else I'd get scared he'd disappear) can help a little, tiny bit.

Oh Cat - sorry you are feeling so bad right now. I am impressed with the good stuff you are doing and your insight. You know what is happening and probably even know it is all a reaction to you feeling so pushed and pulled in every direction - it is good that you know that you won't quit. Even though you want to. I think that is part of the anger though - something is feeling so bad and you want to run and do something to stop it all. Ironically the therapy in the long run will make everything worthwhile and make life liveable again.

Can you do something to take some of the pressure things away from you for awhile? Can you avoid things, avoid situations or people who take more from you than give to you? I always imagine my Jug of Resilience - i look ahead and if I think a social situation, an event, seeing a person or doing a task - takes more out of my soul and or my Jug of Resilience than the good I think I might get out of it - i ignore it or don't do it. Of course the downside is that I am the judge of whether I *think* something might be good for me - so I might not have the best judgement - but I am trying......

Minimise the crap and stress and just do the very basics well. The very basics for me are seeing my T every week!!! Not negotiable for me. My T hasn't triggered me very much at all lately so I am on a good footing with her and she is providing stability in my life - everything else is rocky for me. I think you need to have parts of your life that are fairly stable so that you can handle the distress in other systems of your life. So are there some parts of your life that you do have control over and can stabilise = so that your sessions with T and P aren't that triggery?

Good luck Catty Cat - and don't quit!

Thanks for the support guys I will reply individually later. I've been having a super hard time but cancelled my P appointment and called my T1 to vent and cry on her voicemail and now have wandered in to the deep sweet recesses of my left brain.

Hello deep sweet recesses of the left brain. Hope the right brain is doing better today. I know how hard it is when the anger is so intense that you don't know what to do with it. Hope it gets better for you soon.



Liese

Hi Liese,

My right brain... she is fried.


A quick update, and I do apologize for not individually responding yet ((LK)) ((JD)) ((yaku)) ((SD)) ((Liese))

My P (!? Not her secretary which is what I was expecting) called back and... strongly advised against my canceling my appointment. She asked why so I didn't lie I said it was too triggering/emotional to go right now, that I was having a hard time. Evidently, that wasn't a good enough excuse. She sees a ton of patients and I doubt even remembers me or why I have a difficult time with appointments.

In the meantime my T called me back and my other T wrote me back. I just feel like a humiliating failure to speak to either one of them and am just going to to seclusion until I feel batter. I let T1 know in a VM what was going on with my P and then T2 I just wrote back to say I appreciated I had the space to write. I don't intend on contacting anyone else for a bit... I just feel like I look bad/crazy to everyone and I'm triggered and that's just how this goes sometimes.

I got my blood work back today... I'm amazingly (physically) healthy like usual with high levels of all my vitamins and within normal on basically everything. Which is good so I still don't know what my problem is (assuming it's psychological) and am blessed that everything they looked in to is functioning as it should. They measured my waist.... they've never done that before and yea that sucked.

I've felt barely present all day. Just a constant swirling and moments are disconnected from each other (at lunch, after my P called I was wandering around and made it super far before I realized, in the middle of leaving my T an email, I was in the middle of a parking lot about 300m from where I was intending to go - I remember my process of the day what I did but no details and that makes it really hard sometimes). I keep diving from being triggered to being half okay, and in between it just feels like my brain is soup and I am exhausted. I don't want to participate in this anymore. It's not that I'm having SU but I'm just I don't know really fed up or something I need something.. clearly... there is a problem. I need to figure out what is the equivalent of "ice cream" for whatever is having an issue.

I think I need a break. I don't know if that's running away from intimacy or if that's legitimately a good decision. Obviously... not seeing my P because it's overwhelming right now isn't a good answer and I need some space somewhere

Anyway, thanks for allowing the place to whine and complain. I'm just trying to pass the time so that I won't cancel my appointment with T2 at this point I just feel too much shame to see anyone and that seeing them ultimately leads to my own insurmountable amounts of crazy. there isn't really anything I can do to ease the pressure atm.

((((Cat)))) Just more hugs for you!!!

quote:

When you want more than anything to quit... what do you do to keep going in week after week?

I love my T and would miss her too much if I didn't go, so that keeps me going back. Every once in awhile I talk to her about quitting therapy. This time she answered a bit differently. She told me when someone decides to leave, you don't officially close the door. You just take a break, you don't need it right now, and can always come back any time. It really helps to talk to my T when I want to quit and she seems to make it alright, and I've never quit with her.

My meds are new as of Jan 6th and so I'm going a lot right now, even calling, and I love how caring they (physician's assistant to psychiatrist and her medical assistant) have been (haven't been sleeping worth crap, think Wellbutrin put me into mania, hopefully temporarily till the Depakote gets to theraputic levels)....I like this PA so much better than the P I was seeing Oct 2010 - Oct 2011 (and I did quit all my meds cold-turkey this past June). So, I'm kind of a quitter

Huge hugs to you, Cat.

((((Cat))))

I'm sorry that things are so difficult now. I don't know how I don't quit. It always seems like a possibility for me. Sometimes I make a deal with myself where I tell myself I can always quit after the next appointment but I'm going to go to this one now.

I'm sorry that the P appointment is such a trigger. I remember your story about P yelling at a patient. I also think that if you need a break you should take one. Your T's will be there when you are ready to come back from your break.

I wish I could say something that would help but I am thinking of you and will watch for an update from you.

((yaku)) ((Ninn)) ((incognito -can I call iggy? I almost typed that I mean it as an affectionate term))

I think I'm done like... too many triggers right now I don't know what to do. Usually I'm so good at a 'get up and do it' attitude but this back sliding so strongly and dealing with the same-fall-out or the God-only-knows what my Ts must be thinking of their client just going bonkers for no reason. I'm assuming it is the anniversary triggers i'm having right now more than anything. Anyway.

Thanks for the continued support guys I feel a reclusive period coming on but I will update as I can.

Hey (((Cat))) go easy on yourself and let's face it, we're in therapy, therefore pretty much have an entitlement, sheesh, almost an obligation to go a bit 'bonkers' from time to time! and your T's wouldn't have bad thoughts about you, only concern, like all of us here!!

Totally understand if a reclusive time is coming on - we'll all still be here in minor or major roles when you come out again!!

s

Okay, I feel less triggered by this thread I can finally update again

Laura K - Thanks very much for the support

Jane - Did it feel GOOD when you told her you quit? Sometimes I feel like I get backed in a corner and truly the only power I have is to quit because my T and P have very specific rules I must follow to see them - they are for my safety because of my 1 single SU attempt I'm branded for life as a risk to myself. Thank you for saying you keep seeing me change... I see the change sometimes then... I lose it all when I'm in these setbacks.

Yaku - My T is very quick to validate my feelings of wanting to quit sometimes such that it makes me feel she wants me to go away, or thinks I'm acing when I express my feelings that way. So, I'm quite impressed you can express these to your T - what does he say about them? Thanks for all the hugs!

Somedays - Thank you for your words and support. Yes, I'm hoping that this whole 'in the long run' thing works out with therapy being worth it. Sometimes it doesn't feel that way. I tried to take some of the pressure off by calling my P to move my appointment, sounds reasonable, right? Evidently not. She wouldn't let me move it so I felt very invalidated like my feelings didn't/don't matter. That's how I feel a lot about this particular trigger - I'm doing what they ask, exactly what they ask, and any time I express my fear I am told "Do it or you're terminated". And... I am doing it, and I do understand I need to do it, and I do understand it keeps me safe, however... would it kill someone to validate my fear and be nice about it? It feels like taking a kid to the dentist and the kid is crying so you say "STFU or I'll throw you the hell out of this car" but... the kid is there... going to the dentist appointment, not running away, doing what you ask... but bawling their eyes out... is it so hard to be soothing/comforting rather than a total bitch? I tell my T this all the time and I'm met with "Well it's your transference, forcing you to take them IS loving/caring" and... yes, she is taking care of me and looking out for my best interests but it would be nice if she could do so with a teddy bear instead of a hammer. I already listen and do what I'm told I just really want some validation around how scary it is But alas... I've been through this now for 2 years with my T and it is just like... beyond her capacity to deliver the support. I think she might see being supportive/gentle as giving me permission not to do what she wants me to do when I see it as... I'm dong what she wants but it scares me so could somebody give me a light in the darkness here?

Liese - thanks again for your support

Ninn - That is part of what keeps me going back also that I genuinely do like my Ts. My T has never really said anything about official door closing or not, I think she would welcome me back but I know I've been a very difficult client and I think she would find an excuse to refer me, especially because she is transitioning from full-time to part time right now I'm glad you've found a PA who works well with you. I'm so triggered by Drs/Ps that it's very hard to find safety and my P seems to find new and exciting ways to make it worse.

Incognito - Thanks again for the support and yes, P yelled at me and the patient!! We did work it out but she perpetually forgets about my other issues coming there. It feels like groundhog day when I see her and her forgetting why I am so anxious (or hell even that I'm anxious AT ALL) is really invalidating. It really stirs my trauma pot.

Morgs - Thanks for the wonderful support, lady I appreciate it. I like the idea of an obligation to go bonkers You said what T2 told me basically when I saw her yesterday that she (and she can't speak for my other T - which when she said that I'm not sure if that meant secretly she knew my other T was judging me and being mean or if she was just indicating she can't speak for other people) doesn't view me as crazy or judge me when I reach out more but rather considers that I'm hurting.

Small update:

I've been feeling awful and dysregulated and emotionally all over the map but I did get pulled together in session with T2 yesterday. I've been a bit more grounded since then and able to contact my T again. At this point I'm basically terrified she will not work with me - this always happens when I have issues with my P because my T constantly reminds me that if I do not see my P she will not work with me. So dutifully, I see my P, I take my meds and continue with life. My T doesn't acknowledge or validate my feelings about this issue - she's otherwise a very good T but when it comes to this she has a very hard boundary and it's covered in broken glass and spikes and she has no time of day to support the very scared little part in me but rather just coerces the big intellectual part of me. I think when I'm scared she hears "I don't want to do this anymore" but what I'm saying is "I wish I didn't have to do this, I'm scared".

I might get myself a T to see the day before I go get meds or something, some stranger T that I barely know that can listen empathetically to what I have to say, validate and let me feel heard... then I think I will have less of an issue going to my appointments. I just really need a hand to hold before I bravely walk in again and again and again into a situation I hate but do anyway and get absolutely no credit for.

I have so much anxiety right now.

Yay another small update as soon as I hit 'post' on the above response T called me back and gave me something I could say to P on Monday and reassured me I was okay with her and okay to see her and that I could see someone else. I got to say that I do feel like I'm not being heard... she said she hears me correctly but... still not a very warm and fuzzy T about this issue at all

I do feel better about seeing her Monday and like we're okay though so phew. Now to put this issue back in to the deep dark 'don't think about this' box again.

I haven't expressed wanting to quit in a while, but when I do, it is usually by text. One time, early on, before we knew each other well, he heard it as me initiating termination, so at a session later that same day, he said, "So we need to talk about..." and I freaked out and noted how careful I was to note that I felt like I had to do it for everybody else. Since then, I have been REALLY careful to emphasize that I am having those feelings, but not acting on them.

Anyway, how does he respond? It's been a while and I am having a hard time remembering, but probably something along the lines that he is sorry that things are so hard, upsetting, whatever other feeling I seem to have conveyed. And, if there is an insecurity about his end of things, he will reassure that he is not leaving, not burdened, etc., whatever that worry is. And then, usually some God stuff thrown in there about how we are safe and being carried and He won't let us down. I guess he does similar responses for most upset feelings. One thing he does specifically for the wanting to quit/run away thing is reassure me that he understands that it is difficult and painful to trust someone when your trust has been badly broken in the past, then moves on to the reassuring above. It makes me feel, I don't know, kind of normal in the midst of feeling like a complete freak. It also helps if I take a moment and remember that despite not knowing exactly what T has in his past, he definitely has disclosed having some really hard, painful stuff there, so whenever he says this stuff, it's not just him saying whatever it takes to get rid of his annoying client as quickly as possible...but actually how he feels and how he healed.

(((Cat))) Glad your T2 is there for you and I hope the feelings of discord and fear with T1 get resolved quickly. I can imagine having a P thrown in the mix, especially when medication stuff is so triggering, can really mess with your relationship with T1.

I wish you could just show this post to your T, Cat. It seems so reasonable what you're asking for.

(((Cat)))

I understand why you are scared. I'm sorry that you don't feel validated by your T and I understand that makes it harder to go to see P. So I gather from what you wrote that you did end up keeping the appointment with your P or are you getting someone else?

I hope that things settle down over the weekend.

Yaku - Ah I'm glad you are careful to emphasize they are just feelings. I'm glad he can normalize your feelings of it being hard. Ugh... I would give anything to have my T be supportive and say "I know... it's okay" instead of "Alright well there's the door!" Maybe I just don't say it right. My T is definitely not the reassuring type, but I'm not usually the type to respond well to that either so lose/lose situation I guess. It does mess with the relationship a lot having a P in there. Basically it's a self-protection and liability issue for my T, she's just covering has ass in the end I just wish she could be nicer to me while she's doing it but it might just not be what she thinks she needs to do for herself.

Alpaca - Actually, I do plan to bring her a little of it so she can understand what I feel. I just want to know if I should keep seeking her as a source of support for this or if she feels the liability issue is such that she must remind me whenever I mention the topic I must remain on my medication. With how regulated this is you'd think I had something worse than depression but it's just straight out major depression and PTSD. Anyway if as a self-protective measure she has to be really distant and mean (if somehow being gentle and supportive would compromise whatever protection she feels she needs then... okay) It me feel like my T expects me to kill myself and wants to make sure it's not her fault if it happens. Really makes me feel sub-human. I feel like she doesn't understand - I mean even today on the phone I told her "I feel like when I talk about how afraid I am it comes across as I'm saying "I'm quitting my meds" when I'm trying to say "I'm afraid, I'm scared, I need support"" and she said no, I'm coming across correctly then IMMEDIATELY says 'If you feel like the meds are helping you and you are staying on them then we can work together' and I'm like????????? Okay, thanks again for being the most compassionate T on earth. So I just need to find out for her if it's seriously a liability thing for her and if she always just has to be a bitchy hag about it then I'll just get a 3rd T/stranger T that I'll go to to process my FEELINGS about my meds because I just want someone to acknowledge that it is hard and hear me cry while I am consistently, unfailingly brave and have done this ALONE for years now and I don't think it's wrong to ask for what I'm asking for. I'm not asking to stop my medication, I'm not asking to go against medical advice, I'm asking for someone to hear me and validate my experience. Sorry... that was kind of long

STRM - good to see you! It is way harder to see P without any support but... I've done it this long. I get counter support actually expressing my feelings = I'm abandoned emotionally and then threatened to be ACTUALLY terminated. It's like getting someone in trouble for something they haven't even done or weren't even thinking of. I had to keep my appointment with my P, yes. I respect her and I don't think she's an idiot. I think she knows her job and she really explains things but... that doesn't make it easier to go. I don't want anyone else because she is actually quite good - I just want some gentle support before I go to see her and with how I feel about taking medication. I need to process that with somebody and someone who continually rejects me for my feelings about it is a bad place.

Thanks for the words guys, it's helping

((((hugs))))

I just had time to read through the thread. I wish you didn't feel so bad and the journey was easier. I am feeling very similar this week and have no wise words for you - just to know it's ok to allow yourself to feel whatever you are feeling. I know the hard part is wanting to hurt self or think darker thoughts. I also feel my T isn't very reassuring and she's pretty cold and aloof lately. I really might quit next week. I guess it's like others have said, you can always quit so keep it up one week or one day at a time.

((Raven)) thank you so much. Sorry you are feeling so similar this week - hoping for you too that the journey gets easier. Definitely one day at a time...