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For those of us with attachment injury, I think its natural that we would desperately crave the love of our Ts. But I am really triggered to leave T lately out of fear (which is maybe not so irrational after all, based upon the experiences of several on this board) that eventual abandonment is inevitable, despite the promises many receive otherwise. Several accounts of T's leaving seem to suspiciously follow after a show of personal sentiment or deep fondness for the client. It's like they suddenly realize they love the client back and they are the ones who freak and can't handle the feelings.

Why are they so afraid to love us back?

Surely love in and of itself is not such an evil thing (although that is what it ends up feeling like to the abandoned client, that once again we did something terribly wrong in wanting to be loved). Is it because Ts fear they are so weak that they cannot hold onto any boundaries? Is it because they do not understand that in many cases their flight causes more damage than their abiding love? Can't the professionals get past the idea that nothing but a sterile, detached psychotherapy is beneficial?
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MH there are people on here infinitely better ‘qualified’ to talk about this stuff than me, but I wanted to chip in and say about your last comment:

quote:
Can't the professionals get past the idea that nothing but a sterile, detached psychotherapy is beneficial


This has got me stonewalled as well - especially when you start looking at the literature on therapies that incorporate attachment theory, or relational therapy or even person-centred counselling - all of which purport to create a warm loving secure safe relationship with the client in order to allow for the taking in by client of genuine caring and even love (yes I’ve read that actual word being used in a therapeutic sense by therapists - admittedly in theory only though).

So I don’t get it either.

Personally I think that Ts who find themselves in situations where their own genuine feelings of love and caring start to surface - do freak out. That it’s one thing feeling like that about a client in a ‘professional’ context, where it’s still possible to remain relatively objective - but the moment it becomes truly personal, I suspect it all starts getting very hairy.

I know I’ve been chasing my tail for months trying to find a T who could show me just the right balance of warmth caring and kindness without its being something personal that I had to respond to - and now I’ve gone completely the other way. I think I was searching searching searching for someone to meet some (no let’s be honest about that, ALL) of my emotional needs - and failing finding that I was then looking for someone who at least knew how to deal with my having those needs. It seems to be easier for me (though it’s too early to tell) to get the second quality while jettisoning the first - if I already know T is not going to feel anything profoundly personal for me, then I *think* I’m going to be able to deal with the needs themselves in a better healing way. That of course is just my theory at the moment Smiler So I'm not sure at all whether i'd even be able to believe that a T had genuine feelings for me, let alone understand what their motives are for freaking out about it all.

Sorry that doesn’t really relate very much to what you’re saying, got a bit sidetracked there.

I hope you get some better answers than what I’ve just rabbited on about, I’d be interested to hear what people think too.

LL
Hi MH,
As usual, what I’m saying is based on my (admittedly really excellent) experience with my therapist and I realize other people might not see it this way. Insert grain of salt here. Big Grin

Your question highlights something that to me is central to the theraputic relationship. The goal for the client is to NOT act out our feelings but learn to speak about them. But since the focus in therapy should be only on the client’s feelings, a therapist may act, but not speak. So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a therapist loving their clients, it’s the expressing in speech of that love that becomes problematic. I am certain that my therapist loves me (in the sense of a parental/pastoral kind of love) and even more certain I’ll never hear him say it. I think experienced therapists understand that they may come to love their clients but they also understand a need to keep that love in check so to speak, for a number of reasons.

A therapist, while being emotionally available to a client (we need to be able to connect enough on that level to feel understood) but also retain a certain amount of detachment. They have to stand back far enough to be able to understand and analyze our behavior. If that wasn’t necessary then talking with our friends would do the trick. The therapist needs to have nothing at stake in the relationship from an emotional point of view. That way they place no expectations on the client and they have no need to lie, or manipulate because they’re not trying to get anything. It also allows them to say the hard stuff that may not be fun to hear. I’ve had sessions with my T where I’ve been so angry with him that I’ve told him I want to throw stuff at him. There are times where I really don’t like what he has to tell me, but he doesn’t NEED me to like him or approve of him, so he can go there.

I think this is emphasized during training, the necessity of a certain distant and when younger, inexperienced clinicians find themselves having intense feelings, it can be very upsetting, that they are doing something “wrong.”

Having loving feelings for a client also makes it more difficult for a therapist because in order to be effective, especially in healing from trauma, a therapist has to be willing to see you in a lot of pain. I think it takes an incredible strength to walk alongside someone, letting them come face to face with their pain in order to heal, and hold back from doing or saying things that would provide immediate relief in the present, but would not heal in the long run. Or even worse, hold out a promise of something that cannot be given because it’s too late. One of my strongest breakthroughs in therapy was realizing that I had spent my life searching for that person who would love me well enough that it would make the abuse vanish. And it’s not possible. While there have been many things my T has provided that have really helped heal me, there are some things that HAD to be mourned as the only way of healing.

Can I give an example? Like many trauma patients, I struggled with wanting to feel special and cherished. The truth is that every child has a right when very young to feel like they are incredibly important and special and cherished. That the universe DOES revolve around them. That someone is totally focused on us and our needs and meeting them. I hated my Ts boundaries and struggled with him having other clients because I wanted him to myself. If I couldn't have him to myself, I at least wanted to be special and more important to him than his other clients. And you know what, it would have been so easy for my T to tell me that I was indeed special and that he had a deeper relationship with me than other clients (I sometimes suspect this is true) and that certainly would have made me feel better in the here and now. But the loss of not having that as a child would still be there, not healed. So instead, he held his boundaries and let me recognize the hard truth that I'm not special (or if I am I'll never know that from him). I told him that I had to face that while our relationship is very deep and very real (both of which I wholeheartedly believe) he did not offer me anything different from what he would offer to anyone who came through his door. So I ended up going past what I wanted from him, to the pain surrounding that loss and feel it and proces it which is what has let me put it behind me. (Full disclosure: while discussing this he did tell me that he could understand the difficulty in believing it was love when it was offered to so many people but if you recognized that the source of that love was something deeper that flowed through him, you could accept it. Love is not a forbidden word for us.)

I also know that the relationship has to remain focused on the client. If a therapist speaks their feelings, good or bad, it brings their needs into the relationship. If we’re focused on being loved by our therapist, then we have to worry about losing that love. Love isn’t a feeling with my T, it’s an act. I don’t KNOW how he feels about me, but I have experienced that is there, dependable and he has told me that if I come in celebrating an accomplishment (that he also rejoices in) or if I’m sitting there with snot running down my face (which unfortunately he has seen more than once Big Grin) nothing changes in our relationship. He has also told me that he cannot allow himself to need me, because if he did then things would get very enmeshed and we would just repeat the abuse of the past.

This is so hard to put into words, but I have experienced it SO clearly, and I now know that those restrictions and boundaries are in and of themself an act of love on the part of my T, and a very sacrifical kind of love at that.

So a T has to both tolerate and understand the strong emotions that can happen to a client as part of the theraputic relationship and accept their importance in the client’s life. That can get scary, even for a T. Not everyone who goes into therapy gets nearly as intense as those of us dealing with attachment injuries. I am very blessed that I got a T who understands that, and while being careful to keep his feelings out of the room, was more than willing to hear all of mine and accept them.

In so many ways, I spent so much of my time with my T longing for and demanding things he could not give me, not because he didn’t want to, but because it was humanly impossible to provide them at this point in my life. I tremble sometimes thinking about what it took to hear that from me, remain non-defensive and refrain from behaviors that would have made both of us feel better in the short run. It was incredibly, breathtakingly painful at times. I have actually screamed and cursed at him at times because of what he would not give. It took me a long time to understand that I was looking straight into the face of love because it looked so different from the love I had always searched for. I am so grateful that my T has the strength to give me what I needed instead of what I wanted.

I’m sorry MH, this may not be completely on topic, I find myself very introspective about the relationship knowing I’m leaving soon. Hopefully some of this helped.

AG
I appreciate each one of your insights. Jill, I'm sorry you deleted your post. I read it earlier before I had a moment to respond. LL, AG, and STRM, with my left brain I can see and agree with a lot of wisdom there in your posts. I wish I could convince the rest of me into buying it. Unfortunately, I'm in an emotional cesspool right now. Not only does it hurt like hell, but its terrifying. I'm really doubting that I'm strong enough to do this thing called therapy because I can't face pain; I just keep running and hiding from it. I'm not sure it was wise for me to start down this journey if I can't finish it. But hopefully, asking these questions and considering your answers is a tiny move forward.
(((((MH)))))

I'm sorry you're so worried right now. I feel the same fears myself, and have wondered the same things as you. It's pretty scary, wanting your T's love, but at the same time fearing the possible ramifications of having that love. I feel like I'm biding my time, waiting for the day when my T abandons me. I think I'm her first patient with this sort of attachment injury issues and I don't know how prepared she really is to deal with my 'stuff'. Definitely leaves me feeling very uneasy.

Please don't feel shame for sticking with therapy and your T. Not all Ts abandon their patients, even if it feels that way on the forums lately. I think your T knows what she's doing and has been around long enough to know what she can handle. Trust her, MH. Talk to her about this. Being candid with her about your feelings might go a long way in helping ease some of your fears. She said she's never terminated a patient, and I don't expect that she'd start with you. Smiler

Hugs,
MTF
Hey MH,

I don't think we've met yet. I'm fairly new to this forum and I'm both a T and patient.

After reading many threads on this forum, I am really surprised to see so many people having 'attachment issues' with their T.

I could try to answer your question but I would pretty much be paraphrasing what AG said (AG everything I've read from you so far has been spot on ! You seem to have a great understanding and appreciation for therapy).

What UV said in her first post is a good interpretation too.

I don't know if this will help much but, while I appreciate the difficulty and almost malignant pain involved with relationship/attachment issues, which it seems is very difficult for you right now, I would interrogate myself as to why you'd have such a reaction/expectations regarding your T and I would also encourage you to eventually talk about it with him/her.

"For those of us with attachment injury, I think its natural that we would desperately crave the love of our Ts."

It is hard for me to relate to that. I've suffered from major depression in the past which was related to attachment issues. While there was some frustating aspects I found in different stages of therapy, I never developed an emotional attachment with my T. Yes I wanted some sense of validation, directions, approval or something similar and I was annoyed when this wasn't made available but 'craving the love' of my T, that never really crossed my mind...

However, while I haven't experienced a similar situation to yours with my T, I have indeed craved the love of others at different points in time. Because this affected me more than in a 'normal' way, I tried to work on it and analyzed it with my T which helped a lot; understanding why, in some instances, I would become desperate if I wasn't 'rewarded' with a reciprocal sense of affection.
((((((MH))))))

Hi Mad Hatter...I'm afraid I don't have any words of wisdom right now, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry for the fear and pain you are going through in your therapy. I think your question is a good one...I'm reading everyone's posts with great interest.

Monte...just wanted to say again I'm so glad you're back. Big Grin You've been writing some amazing posts (not that you haven't before) and I'm just kind of soaking them in. You have a way of putting things that cuts right to the chase. I really love your honesty. I can really relate to the whole temptation to give up and go back to the half-life...how many times have I said to myself "It could be worse"...I seem to cycle through that on a regular basis. I wish I had more to add but right now I'm in a bit of a down turn myself (although nothing like what so many other folks are going through right now). But I just wanted to say thank you for sharing this. Smiler

Peace,
SG
quote:
I'm really doubting that I'm strong enough to do this thing called therapy because I can't face pain; I just keep running and hiding from it.


MH,
I'm sorry you are in such a deep place of pain. Trying to heal from these kinds of injuries can be it's own kind of hell. I just want to offer two things, hoping one might be of help.

First, I want you to know that I've spent a lot of my therapy feeling like I couldn't face the pain and that I wouldn't be strong enough. What you are trying to do is not for the faint of heart, and will probably be the most difficult thing you ever attempt to do. It is NOT a sign of weakness that you are struggling with these feelings, it's just a sign that you're human and like all humans you have your limits and you're pushing them pretty hard in facing this stuff. In other words, there's nothing wrong with you or defective or weak. Most people who have been through what you've been through and were trying to do what you're doing would be struggling with these feelings. I know I did, so many times. I have lost count of just how many times I've threatened to quit therapy or said to myself that I just couldn't keep doing it.

Secondly, this really is your choice, to face this or not face this, and each choice is legitimate. My T has talked to me at time about how difficult it is to face these injuries and be honest about the feelings and about what happened to us, and that some people make the choice to NOT go there, to not dig it back up. And who is he to say they're making the wrong choice? You are the one that will have to experience the pain and the fear and the risk and only you can know if it's worth it to you. And honestly, I can understand going either way. I am slightly biased towards the going forward, but only because in doing so I was able to find healing (partially due to an amazing T) but I wouldn't presume to assume that my experience means everyone has to do it the way I did it.

So whatever you ultimately decide to do, I hope you'll accept your own decision with compassion and empathy for yourself.

MHP,
I just wanted to say thank you for what you said about my posts. That would be lovely to hear from anyone but knowing that you are a therapist, as well as a patient, is highly affirming. Thank you so much.

quote:
After reading many threads on this forum, I am really surprised to see so many people having 'attachment issues' with their T.


I just wanted to comment on this. For people with long term trauma (especially ongoing childhood physical and/or sexual abuse at the hands of a significant caretaker) the attachment injuries often run deep because the very place we should have turned to for comfort is also the source of pain. For a certain percentage of the population (a statistic I seem to remember but can't place the source right now is that about 2-3% of the general population) will react with this intense kind of attachment to their T. Personally, I think because in the case of long term abuse, the attachment development process was so interrupted. A therapist most closely resembles a parental relationship in real life, someone who is concentrated on our needs and our good, putting their own aside when with us, that it brings those unmet needs and the unfinished development to the forefront. But when they come, they come with all the force and strength of the primitive, pre-verbal, death and life needs that they were, when they were not fulfilled. And when they do, the person experiencing them feels totally insane. I know I did! Big Grin I spent a long while wondering what the hell was so wrong with me having all these intense feelings (this was made even more complicated for me since my individual T is also my marriage counselor. Go to couples' counseling to save your marriage, then get emotionally involved with the person trying to help you get closer to your husband. Just a trifle confusing. Smiler) The feelings felt totally out of control and that drove me to go look for answers. And the truth is that there isn't alot of information available on this kind of reaction to trauma, and most of what there is has been written for the professionals from a professionals point of view. So the Psych Cafe has kind of become transference/attachment issue central. The people who post here went out looking for answers about something that was driving them very strongly and confusing and hurting them. I can still remember the relief at finding other people who understood and were even feeling what I was feeling. I stopped feeling like so much of a freak. So once we get here, we tend to stick around and discuss our evolving understanding which draws in more people struggling to understand this intense process. Which is a big part of why we're all here.

May I also gently add that the reason you may have been surprised is that you are also a T? I am convinced that many of the patients who experience these kinds of feelings in therapy often don't speak of. It is threatening enough to be open about this with a therapist who is open and understanding about it (I was lucky, mine was) but almost impossible if a patient isn't sure how a T will react or is convinced they'll be sent away if they speak of this. This forum is a safe place where we can actually speak up about these feelings and be understood. Basically, we're a self-selecting demographic in many ways.

AG
AG, I deeply appreciate your understanding of these attachment issues, keep posting. the last therapist I had, was in 1991-5, about two and half years. Be prepared to be very scared.
I took a year to trust him another year of gradually admitting I had a needy small child in me, who related to him as a daddy figure and then the last six months I wanted to be his equal and fought between the patient role and making myself an equal and i found him very attractive, in a fatherly way and I was really fighting for my own independence.
Unfortunately for me, little me AND adult me, he had fallen in love with me and he later admitted that he spent the last six months grooming me, putting me off my husband, and doing things to me in the guise of healing me sexually that you really do NOT want to know. As I felt so little, a victim of both CSA and also multiple rape when an adult, I was incapable of saying no. I just felt embarassed and upset. It got worse, til he eventually climbed on top of me and I managed to squeak that I was not feeling okay and he laughted and climbed off with a rude comment.

So that is what happens when you think you want more intimacy, love, or closeness with your T and they are out of control.

so you can imagine the fear when I needed to go into therapy again. i choose a woman of course. and I spent most of the last year tolerating her and feeling she was useless but at least I could talk and only when two months ago did I break down and say I really needed holding, did she hold me and then it ALL CHANGED. All the needs, the pain, the attachment feelings, the agony, all came crashing in and the wanting her to love me and the desperation between sessions and her going away and all that.

I truly feel about 2 years old.

We are in England and bit more formal here, so she is doing quite well really. Some days I feel quite abnormal but reading this site yesterday and today has cheered me up enormously, as there are lots of us out there!! Hey and you can be supportive of me and me of you. Yea.


I started writing a blog once she started holding me
called
healingtheinnerchild.blogspot.com
and that has been great to putting some of it out in writing.

this is SUCH a hard journey.
Hi Sheychen,
I haven't had a chance to say hi, welcome to the forums! Thanks so much, I'm really glad to hear that my posts are helping you. It's a long difficult journey to heal from this kind of abuse and attachment injury and I was confused for most of it. It can be really painful, confusing work but you can heal.

I am so sorry to hear about your last therapist and how he exploited you for his own needs. It's just repeating the abuse all over again. As incredibly frustrating and painful as the boundaries can be (and I appreciate my Ts willingness to listen to all of my feelings about them as so much of our work got done around the boundaries) I really do understand how very necessary they are and am deeply grateful for my Ts ability to hold such clear boundaries no matter what I did. And that I was able to trust him with my vulnerabilities. If he had crossed that line it would have been the abuse from my dad all over again. I'm sorry that you have firsthand knowledge of how damaging that can be.

I'm glad that you've found another therapist to work with. And I hope you can find the support you need here. It's a wonderful group of people.

AG

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