yaku,
H's.......*sigh*

I wish I had some wisdom in this area that would help. Since I do not tell my H anything that is personal or about therapy, I am not able to offer anything useful. Only that I understand how hard it feels to have risked vulnerability and been met with unkindness.

I know there are people here who will be able to offer their insight.
((((((((yaku))))))))
seablue

Thanks, seablue.

For some reason, I can't help it, I keep going. So, when H got back from group, I did the following:

-Gave him a list of stuff I accomplished while he was gone and told him I sometimes feel like he hates me unless I live up to his expectations. He said, "OK, well it's not true," in a voice like I was stupid.

-He helped a bit with getting Boo's lunch ready and then went straight on his video game, so I told him that I thought that I would have hoped he would tune in better to what a stressful morning I had (Boo is potty training, which is a lot of work on its own, without all the other stuff I was doing). He said, "OK, after this round." So, yay, I was able to say how I felt and he didn't feel nagged and then got off after like 45 minutes, took Boo on a walk and let me get a shower alone, get some laundry folded.

-Once we put Boo down to nap, I brought up last night's conversation about therapy being in the context of a relationship again and told him to think of it like a chemical reaction. Whether it occurs in nature or in the lab, it's still a "reaction." In the lab, it is limited, controlled and monitored, but that doesn't mean it isn't still a reaction. He said that meant I was changing the definition of relationship to mean just any interaction. And I said, "No, not really. I mean that my healing happens in the context of how Dr_ and I relate to one another. Relate is the root of relationship." He reiterated, even so, that T is a tool and I should use him like a tool and then discard him when I am done...not a relationship. Then I explained that for H such a scenario might be true, but in a case such as mine, where being vulnerable and trusting someone is impossible due to the damage in my past attachment relationships, I probably HAVE to experience therapy in this sort of context. I have to let myself be attached, as scary as it is, and learn to trust in the context of a relationship with someone I know is secure, safe, steady, so I can correct my underlying instincts that relating to others in an authentic/vulnerable way is essentially unsafe in all circumstances. And that doing so would allow me to trust and build "natural" relationships with people who I identify as safe in my day-to-day life. So, H seemed to accept that was probably "true for [me]." Ugh, what a lot of work just for him to be OK with the term "relationship."

-So, now having established it was a relationship, but not the two-way, occurs in nature type, we discussed how his constant need to tell me that I should "use the tool" and then drop it scares me and makes me feel unsupported. I told him that I'd like to know that when I finish therapy, I can go in every few months if difficulties arise, just to stay healthy and keep growing. He got this grossed out, exhausted look. I told him how it scared me to think (especially with my crazy family) that if stuff came up once I finished therapy, he wouldn't be supportive of if I felt I needed to go in. He complained that his family is crazy too and after therapy I should be able to deal with it like he already can without further help. I explained that I hoped to be, but the idea that I wouldn't have the option to go if I felt I needed it, that he would not support those needs, made it hard to keep doing the work that is therapy. He asked, "When have I ever not supported you?" I said, "In the long-run, yes you support me, but I have to fight for it." He said he didn't agree. I told H that he IS a supportive person, but also challenging, because I always have to justify and fight for the things I want and most of the time, it is hard for me to feel myself worthy enough to stand up for myself in that way. I can't just say I need something, because it is important to me. It has to already be important to him too, or I have to convince him of why it's important, or learn to do what I want and just be OK with him being angry and withdrawn (which is OK for little stuff, but not big life stuff). For instance, the thought of going back to school, getting a masters, having a focused career when Boo is older...he put up so much resistance that even though I know he would support me if I demanded it, I didn't feel like I could and I gave up. We started watching anime together, but I paused it to clarify. I let him know that I thought him being challenging in general was a good thing, and something I liked about him, but that in the context of me struggling to have my own opinions or make choices for myself when they affect other people, his challenges made it difficult for me to access his support. I think he kind of just said, "OK." So, I guess he understand and accepted it, but the way it was said made me feel like it was more of a, "Can we be done talking about this?" sort of thing.

-Then, I was kind of feeling insecure about my connection with H, so I went over all the things I had "done" today, because I wanted to make him happy. And then said, "But, if I did none of that, and just took care of Boo and sat around on the forums all day, you'd still love me, right?" And, he used his sarcastic, robotic, I'm-saying-what-you-want-to-hear voice, "Yes...I...would...still...love you." I told him that doing that was hurting me and I was being serious and I understood that he would not be HAPPY with my doing that, but he would still love me, right? He kept doing the sarcastic, parroting thing. So, I asked why he couldn't just say it normally if he means it? I guess, H felt like I shouldn't be using what he says to make myself feel "OK" about myself...so I let him know that I wanted to know our connection was OK, even when I don't live up to his desires. That it was about "us" and not "me." He still kept being sarcastic and said that all that matters is that we are together, we are going to be forever, because that's the choice we made...or something to that affect. Wow, I feel SO loved. It reminded me of how we used to lay in bed and he would be "honest" about his attraction to me being mostly non-physical and being more physically attracted to other women. Like, duh, OK, but really necessary to point it out? Anyway, I just brushed it off as "his way."

We watched some more anime together, which was fun, and now he's off playing video games again. We used to do it together, but he does it online with friends instead now.

So, I am left with the following questions:

1. Why am I working so hard to understand his feelings and to explain my own, when he is so obviously NOT interested. He said that several times in the conversation: "I don't care. This is not at all important to me." I had to ask that he just try to engage, because it was important to ME. Should I have to beg him to care? Am I being too sensitive and I should just take it as he just wants me to be happy and stop trying to justify it to him?

2. Why is the idea of me being in therapy long-term so scary to him? He is the one who suggested I start therapy and told me the first few months that I was "not allowed" to quit. And, since I finally started accepting it, wanting to be there, he has been rushing me to get it done with as soon as possible.

3. Why is the idea of me being attached to T so scary? H has been telling me to learn how to build relationships, so I don't rely on HIM so much, for years. I get that he might worry that I am more attached to T than him, but I have been SO careful to protect our bond, by keeping him "in" my therapy experience. T has said I do so well with that. It's like a cat and mouse game, where if I am feeling dependent and attached to H, he pushes me away...but if I start to be just a bit independent, interested in doing my own things, in connecting with others socially, he chases me down and takes back this and "steals" my dependence back. I'm like the rope in a tug of war he is playing against himself.

4. Am I taking too much responsibility for making this relationship work? I mean, I feel like I am doing the "right" things, but maybe I am doing too much. At what point am I making too much effort to be understood, received, etc. while also making the effort to understand and receive H. I feel like the only reactions I can get to these deep conversations is either complete disagreement or ambivalence. I never get fully received in my feelings. I'm fine with the rejection if I'm also getting affirmation when we're in harmony, but it seems like the best I can get is, "OK, believe what you want, because that topic doesn't matter to me enough to bother with."

And, still, he is my good DH. I love him. He is an affectionate husband and father. He has a temper, he can be harsh and neglectful, but he can also be very tender and loving. He is a mix, like any other person. But, I'm feeling like therapy is a lot on my plate right now...and I kind of just need H to be a bit more steady. I guess I'm asking an awful lot here.

I know no one might care, but maybe this stuff will resonate with someone, so updating anyway.

Another (nearly two hour) conversation tonight, where H nearly walked out on me midway through. I told him some of what I had been feeling regarding him being either critical (which means he feels he can help/make me fix it) or uninterested (which means he doesn't understand or can't fix it, so no reason to bother listening). I hurt him a bit by saying I felt like I was losing him as my best friend, but was able to mend it by letting him know I was desperately working to keep our connection and my honesty here was part of that. I explained that even if we'll end up in "the same place either way," I'd rather take the whole journey with him, keeping him in on the process of how I am changing day by day, rather than wake up a few years down the road and have him suddenly realize this large shift that has occurred within me. I said I thought we'd both rather take a rather bumpy, uncomfortable journey together, rather than ride in separate cars along different routes and hope to meet up in the same place.

I got to the point where he could admit my feelings toward T scared him, he thought I intellectually intended to pursue the "T as dad" relationship permanently, rather than just identify what my feelings are doing and even knowing they are about the past, how connected they seem to T and the present. Also, his telling me my feelings were wrong/bad and I needed to change them has been a bit addressed. After "interviewing" him regarding those statements, I have helped him to now word it (or will try to interpret it in the future as): "The intensity of those feelings scares me and I worry that my accepting them will encourage a delusion. I realize these feelings scare and hurt you too and that you are trying so hard to keep them out in the open and explore their meaning in order to work through them. I wish you didn't feel that way toward T, because it is not reality of your relationship. I hope that as you grow, become healthier and learn new tools in therapy, the idea of leaving therapy is not so scary for you. In the end, no matter the results, I am committed to our marriage and will support your needs, even if I don't always agree with them. I don't want you to look to me for acceptance and approval regarding your feelings and needs, but I will try to support you in them as best I can."

He did compare the thought of me going to T after I "finish" therapy as being akin to him going to a prostitute. He said something like if I could go to T to get my post-therapy emotional needs met that he should be able to go to a prostitute to get his physical needs met. So, apparently what he meant by calling T a "tool," was that he is a sort of prostitute, giving "relations" for money. That kind of devalued my therapeutic experience a bit.

Whew, I am exhausted, but feeling pretty good about how I've handled all of this, managing to share my feelings with H, keep connected and get some acceptance (although I'm still frustrated it takes hours of work to get H to that point). Worth the effort, though, if it sticks.

quote:

I think of the relationship I have with my T which is barely close at all and I can imagine if I was with someone now they would probably be jealous of the love affair I'm having with my psyche.

Thanks, DF. I could really receive and relate to everything you have to say. Especially, the above. I actually spend WAY more time talking about me, my journey, my growth, my processing and understanding of myself than I do about my T. So, in a way, I am obsessed with therapy as much as I am emotionally fixated on T at times.

I think if H had described T as a tool in the way you say (like a resource), I could have accepted it. The way he meant was, "use and discard," and with my transference, it was so hard to hear H tell me that he should not "mean" anything to me, because the connection is very meaningful.

Yeah, his prostitute comment was really weird. It didn't fit quite right. It actually seemed a bit as if it was aimed at getting under my skin, to tell the truth.

I'm glad I am open with H, but at the same time it is exhausting, because I get a lot of:
"I don't think you want to hear that." = "I don't want to tell you, but I'm putting it on you."
"I don't remember what we discussed in therapy."
"I'm not interested in discussing that with you."

So, it is very one-sided. And, H's solution to that is to tell me *I* don't have to share, rather than reciprocating by being emotionally intimate with me. Part of it is just his nature, but where I'm at, I can't wait for him to keep holding things in and then exploding on me repeatedly. I have had a few friends and family members remark on him being verbally abusive and neglectful to me. I don't see it that way myself, because I feel like "that's just H's personality to everyone," but I do want to make sure things stay healthy and get healthier for sure...I don't need more damage getting repressed while I'm fixing the old stuff.