No.9,
People IMO are very dismissive...but when they need to talk you're supposed to be "all ears" for them. That's the word that I keep feeling about most people.

Hopeful

People can be very dismissive, and I know it can be very painful (I ended at least one friendship because of their reaction to my recovered abuse memories), but as I have gotten older, I tend to view it with more compassion. I don't think it's really selfishness, I think its an inability to recognize and stay with pain. Not everyone can do it; some because they lack experience and some because they are avoiding their own pain and so cannot see yours. So I've learned to pay attention and identify the people who can stay with me and who can't. For those who can't, I don't try to share my really difficult stuff. One of the reasons my T is allowed to see so deeply into who I am is his willingness to stay with me in my pain.

I think the articles make important points about staying with our feelings, and understanding ourselves and not feeling guilty for having our feelings. But I did find the aggressive attitude towards people who try to dismiss your feelings to be troublesome as I often think that dismissal is unconscious. We have every right to our feelings and to express them. We especially have a right not to have our feelings invalidated. But other people also have a right to avoid those feelings if they wish to.

I agree. I have learned via experience ask for someone's permission before I talk about anything that might be remotely uncomfortable. I still don't think that I would have anyone to talk to if I was in a very dark place.

Perhaps I have internalized countless articles about "boundaries"... in this day and age it seems to be more important to maintain boundaries than establish a connection, and this makes me very sad.

AG- yes, I do think that the attitude of dismissal is aggressive but unconscious. It runs deep- so much of the media is saturated with this attitude... books are written, blogs are posted. I think that the blogs I posted provided some good thoughts to ponder and responses to use, provided one has already asked permission to talk about the pain we are in.

I will continue to carefully screen the people I talk to even about seemingly trivial things that upset me.. .like a fight I had with my brother, for example. Easy to trivialize, by others, and within myself. I now realize that when people tell me to "just let it go" that I'm creating a war within myself by shutting down my unconscious/subconscious feelings just because someone else was unable to deal with the feeling of anger and I internalized that I am being silly for having these feelings. Not that I would expect another to be in that space with me, but I also don't like to be told what I should be thinking or feeling when I'm on my own time. So, I keep my mouth shut, more and more.

So as you say, it is important to find a way to validate those feelings. Why was I angry and shaken up by the fight I had? Those feelings are there to tell me something, and I need to pay attention.

In the meantime, I'm also making it a practice to be able to sit with someone who is in pain.

Thanks for your reply, this subject has been bugging me for a while and it's nice to have a discussion about it

If anyone has any thoughts on why it seems easier to talk about these things online, anonymously, that would also make for a great discussion.

And thanks Hopeful!

No.9,
I relate to all of what you said...I internalize stuff also and I don't like being told how to feel so it's difficult to find those people who can hear our deep pain as AG stated. I only have maybe two in my life but often find they won't just let my feelings be...I judge myself for the feelings I have but I find I feel even worse when I dismiss my own feelings. Don't know if that made any sense.

It does seem easier to talk about these things online...people seem to share more especially on this forum which makes it a really helpful place. Being anonymous is just really helpful. Sometimes I think if I saw some of the members here I would know who they were automatically and they would know me say if you were in a cafe and overheard something someone said, but of course people wouldn't talk the way they do here in a public place...silly thought! One time I caught myself putting my first name on a post...glad I caught it. I assume it is just simply being anonymous and people relate to the exact same feelings. I have a family member who married his spouse many years ago...can't say how many...and they are still married and happy!

AG,
I enjoyed your post...agreed with all of it. I don't know why I can't think like that...may be something I need to work on. I'm so reactive!

Hopeful

Number9

I found those articles really helpful. My mother is perhaps one of the most dismissive people on earth. Growing up with someone like that made it much harder for me to understand dismissiveness and to recognize it. In fact, it caused me to be attracted to dismissive people which then only perpetuated the painful cycle I was in.

I have come to realize that dismissive people are just generally unaware of their own emotions/motives/needs. They themselves might have grown up with a dismissive mother and can't empathize with others because they can't empathize with themselves. So it is NOT a personal thing. But I actually had to study it and do a ton of work to get there so as to not let their responses devastate me - because their responses COULD flatten me in a nanosecond. Articles like the ones you posted surely helped me along the way. Thanks for posting it.

Wouldn't you know it.. just chatted with a friend on FB who likes to post that syrupy "choose to be happy" crap. I don't mind, that's her thing.

But she likes to complain about friends who are stuck in "victim mode" and self-pity. (Does she realize that she's also complaining an awful lot?) One time I made the mistake of mentioning something personal to her (actually it was about the fight I had with my brother) and she started lecturing about "Letting it Go". I made efforts to not go on and on about it, not to become toxic, but she literally popped in as I was getting off the phone with my brother, and asked how I was doing. And I told her.

So, I DID let it go, but not in the way that she was referring to. I simply don't confide in her. She's not comfortable with negative feelings, as are many, and that's her thing, and I respect that. (one of the reasons I'm glad I can talk to a T at least once a month)

Oddly, I have to laugh, because she seems to have an equally difficult time "letting go". She likes to say that if someone brings up an issue or complains, that they should prepare to hear "the truth" or "things they don't want to hear". This strikes me as being a tad arrogant, but I don't think she realizes that she comes across that way. Do I do that? I hope not.

I really don't want her platitudes and opinions and unsolicited advice, nor her complaints that others are not behaving or thinking or feeling in a way that SHE sees fit. It's so much easier not to bring up anything she might perceive as negative, and it's sinking in for me (it takes a while for feelings/the subconscious to catch up, no?) that that is HER shit, not mine. And giving her own shit "gift" back to her, unopened, (by not confiding in her in the future, or telling her directly and politely to back off if she goes into Holier than Thou mode) ...is a great way to refuse to become a victim, ironically. No, I do not initiate conflicts, either. Too tired. not worth it. Maybe one day I will get to the place where I can be more compassionate and ask myself WHY she is so afraid of the expression of ANY kind of negative emotion.

I'll still talk to her about light things, but nothing deep. And I'm becoming less irritated about it. Chat is easy, one can just type "gotta go" or even brb. Do you guys suspect that these types alienate people as much as chronic complainers? Curious.

So yes, Liese, I get it. People that are dismissive of emotions tend to be cut off from/unaware of their own emotions. It has been VERY helpful to come to this realization, and I must be getting better with it, because I got to experience a real live lesson today.. and each time it gets a little bit easier. And I think that I might also be more devastated when I feel alone...knowing that that there is at least one person I can talk to makes it a lot easier to deal with "dismissers".

Your post has helped me as well.

Hopeful... yes. I don't like being told what to feel, either. Some people even feel the need to lecture about remaining in "victim mode", or that every interaction with another is really just a reflection of ourselves..and again, it's about them. Just because something is true for one person doesn't make it a Universal Truth, and just because someone has something to say doesn't mean that I'm required to accept it or even listen to it.

What an interesting lesson. Still learning. And what a Pandora's box... everything I said applies to me as well.

PS: Blu, let us know how it goes!!!

I guess I'm still irritated, from my writing. So, I'll think about it. But I'm also more inclined to avoid people or at least remain anonymous. This wears me out, to be honest.

I'm not there yet.

Thanks for all the input, it was great!

Number9, AG, Hopeful, Blu & Liese,

I've reflected a lot of what you all said and certainly agree with you all. This whole topic of who, and when, and how to be honest about feelings is something that I struggle with, because in my own experience and watching others too, I have noticed so many people saying things like "I'm here for you", but really what they mean is "I'm part here for you". They are there for you if you just want to discuss something in general or if you ask them a favour to pick up something on the odd occasion. They are there for you if you maybe want to go for coffee and discuss normal daily life to get your mind OFF the topic that is affecting you. They don't understand what it is to really be there for someone who is struggling with emotional trauma's - maybe because they can't possibly understand the depth of these emotions, and the demands of what "helping" really involves because they have never had to experience it. Too heavy. Too negative. Too scarey. Too demanding. Too much. Too something, but one way or another they are not there when you really need someone.

The forum is great in that we can discuss things openly with people who have "been there", and the fact that we are anonymous helps tremendously, but there is one thing that I feel I always have to be careful with, even on the forum which basically means I am not always being honest, and it also means to some extent my struggles are still silenced yet breathing all at the same time, and that is when I am struggling with SU thoughts. How and who do you even talk to about that? The truth is there is nobody.

No.9 wrote:

quote:

I still don't think that I would have anyone to talk to if I was in a very dark place.

I can't speak for everyone else, but for myself I can say that I've been there on numerous occasions, and in my situation there is nobody.

It really bugs me that the world is full of people who essentially are lonely. They cram into trains, buses, venues, arenas, schools, parks etc - we sit shoulder to shoulder yet very seldom do we have the feeling of someones hand on our shoulder. So we get on with life and with everyone - ALONE and then (at least in my case) we pay people to listen to us. Sometimes I've thought it is almost the psychological equivelant of prostition. If you can't find love and you still have a need you pay for a prostitute to fulfill those needs (well not everyone but you know what I mean). Is that what I am doing? I've gone quite in depth with that thought on my own. There are many facets to it, and for me I feel like that is what I am doing.

Anyway I guess for all those reasons I keep my thoughts and feelings to myself, and continue to pay for someone to listen and possibly I fanitise that they should one day care.

Thank you number9 - interesting post.

B2W

(((NUMBER9))))

I'm sorry you had a bad encounter with one of your friends. I heard "let it go" my whole life and what did it get me? A lifetime of being taken advantage of because I learned to ignore my own pain. Sometimes people who say "let it go" are still ignoring their pain and not doing themselves any favors. Maybe their own pain is too much for them to bear.

But aren't we supposed to be getting in touch with our pain in therapy? And then by owning it, we can heal?


As part of my journey, I have had to admit to myself that I'm sad and I don't know how long it's going to last. I am NOT the life of the party. I'm not going to make any excuses for that. It's who I am and I have to learn to accept and love myself the way I am, sad or not sad, angry or not angry.

If it makes you feel any better, it does get better. When someone is dismissive towards me, it still hurts but I don't feel the intense pain I once felt and it's easier to see it as "their" stuff. It's easier to see things from my own point of view and I don't invalidate myself as much anymore. I'm getting better at finding people who like to talk about the same things I do. I'm learning who it's safe to be vulnerable with and who it's not.

I enjoyed ALL of the posts here. Much to think about! I can identify. I would post more, but I'm fried from a big test I took followed by a trail run. For once I am at a loss for words LOL

I'm going to digest it ALL. Good stuff here!!!

********Trigger warning - SU

quote:

but there is one thing that I feel I always have to be careful with, even on the forum which basically means I am not always being honest, and it also means to some extent my struggles are still silenced yet breathing all at the same time, and that is when I am struggling with SU thoughts

B2W,
Just wanted to let you know that one of the purposes of the private Sensitive Issues forum is to provide a safe place to talk about struggles with thoughts of suicide. There are some rules that need to be respected ( Sensitive Issues Forum Guidelines) but anyone who posts in this section has indicated that they are willing to talk about the subject and a number of members have sought support when struggling. It's a safe place for you to be honest.

AG

(((NUMBER9))))

Just found this in an article I was reading. Thought it was pertinent here:

quote:

Those stuck in LIFTING have lifted above their feelings from previous losses. They’ve disengaged from their most vulnerable feelings, creating a barrier between their internal and external selves. They’ve formed emotional calluses over their wounds and suffer problems of dys-intimacy, displaced emotional center, and feelings of detached isolation. They’re hard to reach emotionally. ‘Lifters’ sometimes cause their partners to feel isolated, unloved, or emotionally frustrated.

Hi Liese,

I would enjoy reading that article. Sorry it took me so long to respond but I had a lot going on with school..

I am reading all the posts but am still too fried to write at the present moment :0