(((DF))), (((BG))),

Thank you for the replies.

DF, I hadn't thought about the abrupt shifts that my T probably isn't even aware of when they are happening (which is a lot). I guess I figured she should be asking me more, "What are you thinking?" when she doesn't have the visual cue but I've gotten quiet. Sometimes she does. But other times (and it seems to be the times when she is tired or distracted), she doesn't ask me what's going on inside and I feel sort of let down later when the session is over because I feel like she missed the opportunity for some deeper work.

We sit in silence a lot lately it seems. She says that when she is silent, she is just sitting with what we are talking about. There have been times when she says she is just trying to process what we are talking about, that its a lot to take in... a "shitload" to be specific (she said that once). I understand that a lot of what I am bringing to the table is pretty heavy ***TRIGGER WARNING*****************(incest, serious medical issues related ot ED, and a lot more),************END TRIGGER****** but nevertheless....I would think that a T who has been in private practice for 20yrs would not be stunned by anything (stunned is another word she has used). So I really need her to snap to it and be there for me and stop being stunned and stop sitting in silence...stop processing so that she can help me process. She keeps saying its because she doesn't have the visual cues that we don't go deeper...so there is A LOT of pressure riding on tomorrow's Skype session.


BG,
What you wrote about your T noticing when you are dissociating...that just really made me miss my T2. She was so good at picking up on that very quickly. Sometimes I wasn't dissociating though and was merely reflecting on something she had just said that resonated with me. But she could tell I wasn't "with" her where she was at in the conversation at that point and would ask me about it.

Other times, I was dissociating and she could see that as well in the way I started looking around the room for furniture and artwork to look at and think about....pictures that could take me someplace else.

I think Skype will pose some challenges though because of the eye contact. in order to look into T2s eyes, I have to look into my screen which means I look away from the camera. So from her perspective I will be breaking eye contact, but from my perspective, I will be seeking eye contact. Not sure how that is going to work out. I'm hoping that our brains quickly catch on to this different pattern of eye contact and adjust quickly. Otherwise I think it may make doing therapy via Skype too challenging to carry out. It may even create new problems to have to address (i.e., "why don't you ever look at me when I'm talking about x,y,z? are you uncomfortable with the things I am saying to you?" and then her saying, "But I do look at you when you are talking".) See what I mean? I wish the camera were built right into the center of the computer screen.

Anyway, lots of nerves going into tomorrow. Doesn't help that T has abandoned me today because she is home sick and has been taking 16+ hours to respond to texts. So going into tomorrow, I'm not feeling that connection and bond with her that I really need to feel and I'm feeling vulnerable and awkward making this transition to face-to-face.

((((LG))))

Good luck with your session tomorrow. I too have been begging my T to go deeper but I think there is a part of me that runs from going deeper. I want it and I don't.

And, so again, just wanted to wish you luck tomorrow. I hope you're able to relax and just bond with her but if you can't because it's difficult to make the transition, I hope you're okay with that too.

xoxoxo

Liese

((((((Liese))))))

Thank you. I appreciate the well wishes.

I know what you mean about wanting to go deeper but running from it as well. When T2 went deep with me, it was both scary and good at the same time. Sometimes I ran from it, other times I was open to it. Now, more than ever, I feel so ready.

Ok, well we skyped and it was ok. Different, but ok. She texted me her home phone number and asked me to call her at home so that I could wakl through how to call me on Skype.

The first few mins of the call were weird, I think moreso for T than for me because she hasn't seen me in like 17 years, but I've seen pictures and video of her. anyway, she seemed speechless for the first few mins and even giggled nervously and said how weird it is to see me after all this time. She didn't make any comments on my appearance or how I've changed in these 17 years,no comments about that...just nervous giggling and she kept saying, "Wow" and "this is weird". She even seemed a little choked up and emotional and that was a little strange adn cast an awkward tone to the beginning of the call. I wish she would have said more about what she was feeling rather than just mummble and act awkward for the first minute or two.

about 10 minutes into the call, her partner comes home from walking the dog and walks in the background, so T1 had to jump up real quick and go say something to her girlfriend about how she is skypeing a client today and she needed privacy. That was like really awkward.

Aside from those two awkward things, the rest of the skype session was fine. It was mostly just us getting oriented and used to skyping. I think I feel more connected to her over the phone though for some reason. She even said that she was having a hard time focusing with so many distractions outside (she was sitting on her front porch). The silences on Skype are a lot different than the silences over the phone. On the phone, in the silences, I can hear her breathing and I know she is still there. And on Skype...in the silence, I just see this picture of her staring at me but its not really staring at me because she is looking at her computer screen and not her camera, so it doesn't even look like she is looking at me. Its weird.

anyway, I am willing try the skype again, but I do miss the closeness of her voice via phone. its more grounding than the way it sounds via skype. Its hard to explain and you would think that seeing her would make the connection stronger but there is something about holding a phone to your ear and hearing that person breathing that feels...peaceful.

((((LG)))))

Glad it turned out okay except for her partner being there. Hey, I thought they broke up?

They've broken up a few times but apparently are back on and making things work. I think they go through some rough patches and then fall in love all over again. Those rough patches are sort of nice for me because T is available to text a lot more! But when things are all lovey dovey with them, T is distracted and unavailable.

LG

quote:

when things are all lovey dovey with them, T is distracted and unavailable.

I feel really sorry for you that your T contact is partly dependent on her own personal relationships; her constancy should not depend on that. (((DF))) But am glad you got through the skyping and imagine (and hope )every time the awkwardness will get a bit easier for you.

To your original question, I think face to face contact is an important part of trauma work. Trust takes a long time to build and since the vast majority of communication is non-verbal, I think we find ourselves looking out for any subtle change in body language as well as in the spoken word. There is also a safety net of having T there, to notice and deal with, any reaction to triggers and distresss, or to be aware of dissociative periods. But more than anything, the human contact is so important - that physical presence/contact and empathy that was so missing back when it was originally needed.

starfishy

Hi
I'm chiming in late to your question. I know my T picks up my body language and looks out big time for it as she picks up a lot from face to face. She can tell when I have dissociated or am struggling with some memories/feelings as she asks where has Debbie gone ? She also knows if I am feeling unsafe as she says I tend to turn away from her physically and get smaller in the chair, so I figure that's why T's place importance on the face to face thing

Skype suggestion:
Invest in a headset with built in microphone. It might look a little strange in the video, but it definitely makes the conversation stronger - you really can "hear" better. I use my headset from my cell, actually, it works great.

Glad that you finally got some face time, even if it was a little weird!

Hi LG,
R2G beat me to the suggestion. The guy I work the closest with in my company (he pretty much functions as my editor) relocated to California, so we use Skype to communicate a lot and I have been impressed at how much more effective it is than text or even just voice. But I have also found that a headset with microphone REALLY helps because your focus isn't on "hearing" the call as R2G said.

I also wanted to chime in to why face to face is necessary. There are chunks of the human brain in the frontal lobes that are dedicated understanding other people. Humans are social animals, and our very survival is predicated on being able to form bonds. So much of how we relate to other people comes from implicit learning that we pick up unconsciously, so that when we are interacting with another person, there is a lot that we "know" about how they are feeling or what they are saying that is unconsciously percieved due to our experience in interacting with other people. It's kind of like reading, when was the last time you thought about HOW you are reading? It's just something that you do. In the same way, a large part of human communciation is this perception of another person's feelings from being with them. And a lot of cues for those perceptions are provided from being able to see their body.

My T is very sensitive to what is going on with me in terms of my body which often manages to convey things I'm not even aware of.

I also think that alot of healing when dealing with trauma comes from the right brain to right brain connection of being with another person and that connection, again, is stronger when it has more input.

AG

We had our 2nd Skype session today and it went well, but I am still struggling with the sound/volume and missing the breathing, so I really like your suggestion of the headset R2G. I will definitely look into that. What a brilliant idea!

SF,
I agree...the face to face helps with trust. I did have 2 years of face to face with T in high school and I don't think I would have been able to establish the trust over the phone had that been our first means of contact. but since we already had that component, we were able to work together on the phone these past 10 months. We had the trust...but I guess she still needed that visual to be able to help guide me through some of this trauma.

JMB,
I am thinking that my T is also able to tell when I am dissociating, but so far in these two skype sessions, she hasn't said anything to me when I have been dissociating. So far she seems to just be observing. We haven't really dived into anything deep yet, but are sort of skimming the surface on a a few things....I think she is trying to just get familiar with my body language and mannerisms first perhaps. First session was her getting oriented with Skype. Second session was her getting oriented with my body language.

AG,
What a great analogy in comparing body language to reading. There is unconscious processing that is constantly taking place as we interact face to face with people. Add to that a T who is probably very consciously and intentionally reading my body language and I'm sure it is immensely valuable to her.


T said today that now that she is more familiar with the Skype program, she is liking this format and is feeling good about Skyping and that it is giving her the piece that was missing over the phone. She said this at the end of session so I didn't feel like I had time to ask her to say more about that, but I am wanting to ask her how it is helpful/useful for her and what she is noticing about my body language.

On a funny side note....today my cat was very upset with me because I had her locked inside the apartment during my Skype session when she wanted to be outside. She is normally a very sweet well-behaved kitty. But she was really pissed at me for having her inside in the middle of the day and she literally started tearing apart my apartment while I was Skypeing with T. She ripped two table lamps off the end tables and knocked over a candle. And all of this was going on in the background behind me for T to see. I could hear a ruccus going on but wasn't sure if T was aware of the noises and I didn't know at first that she could see it until she started laughing and said, "I'm sorry...I have to interupt...what is going on with your cat there in the background?! I'm seeing lamps getting knocked over and your cat is in and out of the camera" and we had a good laugh about it. Then I kicked kitty out.

Late to this thread. I'm glad the Skype is going OK and hope it gets better as it goes. I'm sorry about her partner barging in on that first session, though. Every once in a while, T has had to switch rooms on our phone sessions, which he does from home, so I know it can be distracting. Luckily, I can never hear the other person and I can't even imagine SEEING his family, though. Ack! I find face to face is helpful, even though I can't make eye contact with T very much. He is pretty attuned even on the phone, able to voice how I'm feeling based on the way I'm sound, but he definitely picks up on what's going on with me a lot better if he has the body language cues too. And, I'm able to take in his care a lot more when we're face-to-face. I don't know if that's a visual thing, though, or a proximity thing. I think Skype would kill me, because I can't really look at him for extended periods, so he would see me fumbling with other stuff in the room or around the computer and not looking remotely near the screen. LOL.

Anyway, I definitely say to go for the headset. I have a bluetooth headset for my phone that I use for phone sessions and it's much better that way. It allows me to take notes and it feels like T is closer. I got the kind that goes over your head and the mic wraps around front, like I had when I did admin work. T seems to hear me really well with it too, knows when I sigh quietly, etc. I highly recommend it. I have one cat that freaks out if she gets locked out of our room during a session. T has commented on her, because he can hear her desperate meowing through my headset, from the back corner of my room, when my cat is as far as can be, behind the closed door. It's rather pathetic...

I understand why face to face is better. My therapist and I are doing intense trauma work, but right now she is out of town for a couple months. She said we can skype and talk on the phone... but it just isn't the SAME. It was hard when she left-- beccause we both know how important the "in person" part is to me. She says it wont be the same, she knows that, but at least it would be SOMETHING. But I just really, really need her in person.