incognito - I wish I had an answer for you, but being in almost exactly the same place with my T, perhaps quite further back to tell the truth, I don't know why it isn't enough and if it will ever be. I just wanted to post here that I hear your pain and frustration on this and I'm sorry you're hurting. I wish I could help both of us make sense of it. ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))) I'm sorry if that's a pretty useless answer, but I felt like I wanted to "receive" your feelings, even if I couldn't do anything more to help you understand them.

Hi Incognito,

I have been in a similar place to this and know how painful it can be. Having someone not only understand you but accept you too when you are used to be alone in your world can be very scary and overwhelming. I think it takes time to allow someones acceptance of you sink in if that is not what you are used to and I know I took it out on old T even when she accepted and understood me because it was so new to me. I think pushing him away is all part of the therapy and learning.

Don't be so hard on yourself (((incognito)))

Butterfly

(((Incognito)))

no apoligies need. I have thought some of the same things you have written. You spent your whole life (as you said) thinking no one understood you. It takes time to have new ways of thinking and experiencing really sink in. It's like when we have a whole lot of bad experiences with trust, it often takes a lot of good experiences to be able to trust again.

There also might be something to what you said about change. Like maybe you need to have your need and desire for change to be validated and accepted too? There is a saying my T has said to me: "You are doing the best you can, and things need to change. Both are equally true."

My T accepts me where I am and yet also accepts that I need things to change, I need me to change. Accepting where we are at and learning and experiencing our Ts accepting where we are at is a part of the process of changing at deep levels. I struggle with it a lot. I get hard on myself too that I can't seem to have it really sink in faster.

I have been with my T for quite some time. Yet just this past week, I got really worried she wouldn't accept me about something and she would reject me and think I couldn't ever change... I went in and saw her when I was so discouraged. I felt like I should be getting this by now. I told her all of this, and she said yeah, she wished that I hadn't been so afraid she would reject me, and yet it was really ok I was struggling to really know she accepts me. She told me things she thought I was making progress on, and that even if I wasn't, she still was ok with me. She also validated that yeah, things need to change too. And it takes time, lots of time, and lots of little steps. painfully small steps for me. My T accepts me. And it's taking a lot of time and experience of her accepting me for it to really sink in.

I hope you keep talking to your T about these things. I think there is tons of hope and that things will change for you in terms of acceptance and in terms of changing the things you want to change in your life.

I'm so sorry you are hurting. This stuff is really hard work to do, but I think you are doing it.

lots of hugs,
~jane

Hey Incognito,

I worry too sometimes that I'm not getting from therapy what other people get. Sometimes I read about these wonderful relationships or I read about attachment theory and I decide this is the relationship i want with my T and I kind of push myself harder than I really want to go or I try to push the relationship. I think my T is really good at recognizing, though he doesn't say this, when I do this. He and I have to build "our" relationship. Not some kind of textbook relationship.

By the same token, you are your T have to build "your" relationship. And it will take time.

The needy/dependent thing is hard for me too. I read this really great article that made me for better about being needy and dependent. Actually two articles about CPTSD. The one took a cultural view of the whole debate and how our culture values independence. But that as children especially we are and need to be dependent. And if we don't get those needs met as children, we often run out of steam as adults. And, also that there are times are times in our lives when we need to be more independent than other times, like when something particular stressful is going on. We need to learn how to need and how to lean. But I know it hurts for me. I actually despised that part of me. But after reading that article, I realized how mean I was actually being to a part of me that needed to need. A part that got scared sometimes. A part that felt hurt sometimes. That part needs to be nurtured. And, so, I'm learning to be kind to that part of myself. I hope you can learn to be kind to that part of yourself too.

Do you feel like you were blocked off from you pain for all these years and now you are accessing it more and almost everything hurts? Every little bump feels more intense? That's kind of how I feel sometimes. Can you talk to your T about how he can help you and how you can help yourself in between sessions?

It actually sounds to me as if there is a conflict going on in you. There is the part of you that wants to be nurtured and wants the pain to heal. And the other part of you from childhood, the part that's afraid to lose love, is fighting the needy/hurt part. And, when you feel the scared part come up, maybe you can learn to recognize that that's the part of you that's fighting the other part and that the other part really deserves to be nurtured. Maybe it'll make the fighting less intense. Does that make sense?

((((INCOGNITO))))

Hope things get better soon for you.

Thanks for your replies.

Yaku, I'm sorry you know how I feel. I hope you are able to get some rest soon. Everything is more difficult when you are tired.

Butterfly, I am frequently too hard on myself. I get so frustrated that I can't hit a magic reset button and just be able to accept and trust my relationship with my without my previous experiences making it so difficult.

Janedoe, I'm glad that your T can accept where you are and your desire for change at the same time. I hope I can keep talking with my T. I'm go impressed that you called a left a message telling your T about your trauma. I hope you can get some rest and your session on Monday helps you realized that your T accepts all of you and your trauma. Hugs.

Liese, I sometimes wonder if I would struggle less if I wasn't comparing my relationship with T to other peoples or if it is neediness that is such a struggle for me. What article about CPTSD did you read (the David Baldwin one)? I do feel a lot of anger towards the part of me that is needy and emotional. I also seesaw wildly from feeling okay about T and accepting that I need him and committed to sharing more of myself and completely melting down and feeling out of control emotionally. I think that might be a result of that internal fighting you are talking about and I'll try and remember when I start to feel that out of control feeling I'll try and remember and use that idea of different parts of myself fighting.

I'm a lot calmer than when I wrote this after reading all your replies and processing my last session more. My husband is away for work leaving me alone with my three children which means I'm busy parenting and not ruminating on myself. I often feel like I'm stuck in a loop of having the same get closer to T followed by feeling panicked and I worry that I'm not making any progress. I find it so hard to distinguish between being stuck in the same pattern and revisiting the same issues differently (which is something people say happens in therapy)

Incognito - we can't measure ourselves against anyone else!! We can't evaluate our therapies against another person's therapy because we/and our Ts are all so vastly different!! What is enough for some is not necessarily enough for all - so much depends on where we've come from and it's all relative!! Suffering, pain, hurt is the same no matter the base cause - the result is the same and we 'somehow' have to take the pressure off ourselves and just deal with 'the moment'! Do I do this - not enough yet - am I trying? - yes - and the more I try to encourage others the more I believe!!
Take care.

Incognito,

Started this a couple of days ago and never finished. Was trying to locate those articles for you but couldn't yet. I gave them to my T. I should have kept a copy. I'll keep trying. They really helped me feel kinder towards my needy side. Almost like there is a side of me that bullies that needy side, almost like I don't need a bully anymore. I do it to myself. I think the bully side is actually to protect me but winds up hurting me because I'm not getting certain emotional needs met.

I don't know for sure but I am assuming that the part of you that hates the needy part is pretty strong inside of you and has been operating for a long time to protect you. And, so it's going to take a while for that part to calm down because it is used to reacting a certain way. It's used to feeling as though neediness is bad and it's trying to protect you.

Hope you are feeling a little better today. I'm still feeling a little triggery about posting on the forum and so I may stay away for a while. But I'm always here on PM if you need to chat.

Love,

Liese