don't count on it, TAS. as much as you or i want to be rescued, you and i need to make first contact. it's hard and it sucks, but it's taking responsibility for ourselves.

I don't think your T will call Tas.

They don't chase, they don't rescue, they don't call. They will be your T while you are in session with them - the rest of the time it is for us to look after ourselves. We have to get to them to start doing the work.

They aren't our mums, they aren't our dads, they aren't sisters, brothers or friends - they are our T's and we have to present ourselves, put our trust in them and work with them. And hope that we learn enough from the relationship and therapy that we heal.

Therapy is harsh Tas, but that is what it is. We have to look elsewhere for all those other figures in our life and get that part of us fulfilled.

It seems like you keep testing your T - he is going to keep acting like a T and he won't transform into what you want him to be.

I think it's specific to each dyad or how the T works if they'd call or not. Unfortunately, I wouldn't count on him calling because he knows this game already and will do what he thinks is best for the therapy. My Ts/P do what they think is best for my therapy, based on my habits and their working style, too.

SomeDays...all of that which you stated...takes my breath away. He can't be those things and the process keeps throwing it up in my face...too much to face.

Going on a long break, I asked my T to contact me, once in a while, because I wanted to be sure she was still there. She said no: I can contact her and she will reply, but it's my job to ask first, to "make her be there", acting otherwise would foster my already blooming dependence.

Half of me is hurt: isn't it precisely what hurts me, that you have to deserve people's attention, to work for it, their care is only there as long as I do what they want me to do, therefore, it's not really caring, it's abandoning me, like everyone does.

Half of me knows it's the rule of the game and has rational arguments, which are for my own good, because she can't let my attachment run wild or it will hurt me even more (because, she won't always be there to take care of me, she's 'just' my T). And contacting me would feed this, I know it.

I can't tell about your T, but that's how I try to see the actions of mine, and ... maybe you can find something in it?

Thank you About It is good to know I am not alone in my experience...These replies will help me get through the next few days...I know there is a reason for why he is doing what he is doing...it is just accepting it...

Hey TAS,

I so understand your struggle. Old T used to contact me if I didn't show up. I rarely did that, so I assumed it was out of genuine care (her worrying I may be sick or got in an accident or who knows what....same reasons we all worry when people who are consistent do something inconsistent)and maybe it depends on the T.

I did get into a habit of missing a lot of appointments during a point in time when I was using drugs and really didn't give a sh*** about anything. She didn't call then.

However, what About said

quote:

Half of me knows it's the rule of the game and has rational arguments, which are for my own good, because she can't let my attachment run wild or it will hurt me even more (because, she won't always be there to take care of me, she's 'just' my T). And contacting me would feed this, I know it.

- is EXACTLY right. As you probably know, from reading my history, it ended very badly with old T and this was a big part of the reason why. She would contact me a lot outside of session to make sure I was "ok" (not necessarily missing an appointment). She would email me during times when I was out of therapy b/c I was doing well just to check in and make sure I knew she was there and she cared. All of those things, they were well intended on her part. And they felt GREAY at the time.
BUT....just like About said, my attachment ran wild and when things didn't turn out like I assumed they would (she is "just" my T, not my friend, not my psuedo-Mom, "just" my T) I got severly, severly hurt.

Soooo...sorry for the long response. To answer your question, I think No, most T's will not call and that is probably the right thing to do. Now, if you had never missed an appointment for years and then missed one, yes, I could see a call. Oh and if I was ever running late, I always called T to tell her, so I don't know if she would have called me.

Wishing you peace,

So, they can not be all those things...then what? We pull ourselves into therapy...don't know about the transference sh** that will happen along the way...it's this very pain that brings us in and yet it is this very pain that causes us to withdraw from therapy because it is so overwhelming.

So, we face the truth...we know we can not ever have those things...so why continue therapy? It's as if it is being continually pushed in our face...we've had the experience of not having what we most wanted...

I think it is a cruel joke...continually being taunted by what we can never have. I would like to say it is complete bullsh**.

I am sorry...but I think it is completely ridiculous to put our trust in a therapist who wants us to deal with the past...and yet, truly, there is nothing they can do. NOTHING.

Anyway, I was just curious if the calling if a client is late or no show is another boundary...that's all.

I am sorry KMAY your experience with your therapist did not end well. Did she ever ask you why you left?

I hope your new therapist works out. At least you know what works for you based on your experience.

Thank you for taking time to reply. Any negativity is not directed toward you...

T.

quote:

I know there is a reason for why he is doing what he is doing...it is just accepting it...

quote:

I am sorry...but I think it is completely ridiculous to put our trust in a therapist who wants us to deal with the past...and yet, truly, there is nothing they can do. NOTHING.

TAS,
If you think the solution is for a therapist to give you what you didn't get or to give you enough that you no longer suffer from what happened, you're right, there's nothing they can do. But what if the answer isn't our getting what we want? What if what is important is that we are allowed to express all our feelings about what we didn't get and what we aren't getting? I struggled with this concept for literally years and I would constantly get stuck at that point of "this is what happened, it was horrible and no one can do anything about it" and feel very despairing. But I don't have to stay in that place of continuing to not get what I need. I can learn to get it now.


Therapy has two crucial elements. Mourning our losses, allowing ourselves to express what it was like to not have gotten what we needed (and in some cases getting things we never should have) AND learning that we do matter, our needs are legitimate and we can learn how to move closer in relationship to get our needs met. So now when I hit that "stuck" point of despairing over the past, I realize I can turn to my therapist and other relationships for the care and love that will give me the strength to bear those losses.

We do not always hear yes to everything but for those who experienced serious deprivation, a no evokes such terrible feelings. But think of all the times we need to say "no" to a child, because what they are asking for would not be good for them. But a loving, caring parent will allow the child to express their feelings about the no, reflect back understanding of what they are going through, and help them soothe themselves from the pain of hearing no. Getting the answer we want isn't important, what we want being heard and understood and accepted is the important part. I really do realize this makes no sense, it is the mystery at the heart of healing. Human beings need to be heard and understood so much more than they need to always get what they want.

So while I truly think it is good that you are working very hard to understand and accept your Ts boundaries, its not just about accepting them, its about understanding how you feel about them and why. Your relationship with your T is the launching point for exploring your past and finally being heard. So it's not just important for you to accept the boundaries, its even more important to talk about the feelingws surrounding the boundaries. Being listened to is what tells us we matter. And you do matter TAS, I truly believe your therapist is holding such clear boundaries out of concern for your well-being. But it just really f***ing hurts I know.

AG

AG Thank you.

Honestly, this is the thing: He KNOWS how difficult this is for me and yet, he seems to continue in his firmness. It's like he knows this is stirring up some painful things and he doesn't care that it is causing me pain. I really believe this because this pain takes my breath away.

I think he created this struggle for me on purpose. He wants to see me struggle, not be able to deal with all that is excruciating...and instead of him coming straight out and telling me he doesn't want to see me...he created this hurdle that would be too much. I truly believe he is wanting for me to give up. Worn down by a damn boundary. Who would have thought? The joke is on me.

As far as exploring the feelings in regards to the boundary...I have told him those feelings literally take my breath away...does he change the boundary? No. Does he do anything to make it more bearable? No.

You know what's funny? THEY make decisions in our best interest...but THEN when we are hurt by it...it can be used as the therapy...

I am trying to be an adult about this but I feel more like I am three (with my sunglasses ON) I just want to keep kicking him in the shins...and the words I want to say to him...ooh.

I don't like him right now.

Thanks AG...I know the problem is not him...but if I am not wanting to talk about the feelings and how painful it is...I may as well be waving the white flag of surrender.

TAS, i don't have any insight for you, but i do totally relate to the feeling of therapy as being "the joke is on me". i've written it here before and i still feel it, and i'm not sure it will ever cease. not yet anyway.

I know my T would call. I have never missed an appointment or cancelled, the idea would make me opanic. If I did not turn up without notification T would know something was wrong and would call.

TAS-I so can identify with the pain you're in. My T says to me frequently
"Through pain we grow" and I have found this to be true. I'm thinking of
getting a tattoo of it as a permanent reminder that there is a point to the
bad stuff! I don't know how long it will take for you to move through the grief
but you are on the journey and working hard. Give yourself credit for that!
My T also says frequently "give time, time", usually when I'm being impatient
with myself or angry at how much I'm still hurting about some stuff. Don't think
I want that as a tattoo but her other overused phrase that I do like is "this
too shall pass"...and it will pass TAS, because things are always changing even
if it is very slowly and for you imperceptible. But I can see change and growth
in you just from your posts. Keep going hun, you are doing great!

Hugs
Searching

quote:

Honestly, this is the thing: He KNOWS how difficult this is for me and yet, he seems to continue in his firmness. It's like he knows this is stirring up some painful things and he doesn't care that it is causing me pain. I really believe this because this pain takes my breath away.

TAS
I am sure that your T is aware that his holding his boundaries is causing you pain. My T and I have discussed this many times, that if it wasn't absolutely necessary to face our pain and unresolved griefs, than he would look like the world's biggest sadist. Yes, your T could do things which would provide immediate relief right here and now but they would block healing. I think one of the hardest and most difficult aspects of a therapist's job is that they must tolerate seeing someone go through immense pain in order to heal.

He's not changing because he is keeping his eye on the long term goal of healing. Think of a tooth that needs a root canal. You could just keep giving the patient more novacaine which would make the pain go away, but the decay and infection of the nerve would continue undeterred, causing more damage and leading to worse injury. That would be your T giving you what you want right now. Or you can drill and fix the infection, which is not a lot of fun, but clears up the actual problem.

The truth is that we are incredibly driven and trapped by our unresolved stuff. We need to learn to do things differently, and we need to face and process our grief. And its just a painful process. But you can stay in pain and hold still or face the pain and move forward out of it.

There's a post on my blog which might help: Why your therapist SEEMS cruel, but really isn’t

AG

Honestly. Give me Novacaine. Not in a good head space and each day that passes...I am convinced he will truly be glad when I don't come back...

AG: Thank you. I will read the article.

T.

Ps. I will write more when I am in a better place.

Yeah, i'll take some Novacaine too

me three!

And is there something, some medicine, for that dread-and-despair-in-the-gut feeling? I need a year's supply of that, pronto

"i think resistance is a funny thing.By pointing our attention onto our t's for the pain we are in, we are not looking at the true source. maybe because to actually feel and look ,is really very hard to actually admit who caused this pain in the first place and where it truly is coming from i know that is the case for me.


Very insightful Draggers.

Well, the truth is I have ALWAYS had to rescue myself growing up and it gets to be a little tiring. Yes, we long for someone to come along and say, "I'm here. I will help you."

I am no stranger to rescuing myself...I have done it my whole life. It's rather tiring, as I stated earlier. For those of us who would like someone to rescue us, it is because we have done it our WHOLE life and want someone else to be the adult and guide us to the place we need to go.

While it sounds noble for the Therapist not to rescue or call...sometimes it is just about them showing you they are there and they do care.

It was insightful what Draggers wrote. Yes, I see how all the things I feel toward MSME (Most Stubborn Man Ever) could be about others...and frankly, all I see is him in the room though...so how could it not be about him...feelings come from what others do and if he is doing things...it doesn't matter who he reminds me of if he is the one telling me no, telling me no outside contact, etc.

So, he is making decisions, and these feelings are coming up...reminiscent of someone else
? Perhaps. But he is the one in the room.

Thanks for replying T.

It has a lot to do with the expertise, experience and willingness of the T and their relationship with you and then your (or mine / our) way we treat them, or regard them or work with them and the way we both work at the mutual relationship.

My T DOES call me, text me if I am even 10 minutes late - but I am never late from protest behaviour - for want of a better term - it will be because something unforeseen has happened. My T will always follow up, will text, email and then ring.

She knows me and knows that I withdraw when faced with problems and that I do it because I don't have the skills to do any better. She helps regulate me - but doesn't do the work for me.

I didn't know my T would do this or be like this, but we have both evolved. She trusts me that I don't do BPD stuff on her - like cancel, be late all the time or threaten to do this stuff. We are committed to each other and our therapy.

It wasn't always like this, we have had more serious ruptures than most people, we have negotiated and renegotiated and each time it took tears and so much pain - but I had to front up, or write to her and tell her i was angry and why and together we worked it out.



Tas, i was thinking of you the past couple of days and have an analogy. It is like you want an apple, you want it (and need it) to be a certain colour, size, taste - whatever. Except your T is an orange. It sounds like you are always wanting the orange to be an apple and you protest, complain and encourage him to turn into an apple for you. He is an orange and he won't change. So do you want an orange or are you going to keep trying and turn him into an apple? At some point you have to decide if an apple is what you really want or can you settle for an orange and be happy. If you don't want that or can't do that - you need to shop around for the apple that you need.

Recently when T was away I had to see a backup T - and we spoke about my relationship, attachment and history with T a lot. It was really valuable in talking about all this with another person and it helped put it in perspective. The backup T asked different questions and got me to think of things from another angle.

It strengthened my position with my T.

I recommend it.

somedays.

to SD's post above.

I think my T might text me if I no-showed or even was late without warning, but that is only because I have never, would never, no show or be late without informing him. Once we both ran late and I was there waiting, because he ran even later picking up his lunch. And he said, "Dang it, I knew you'd be here before me, because if you say you're going to be 10 minutes late, you'll be there within 10 minutes, or you will check in again to let me know you'll be later." I will talk about my feelings of wanting to quit or cancel, but I have never canceled on him, and have gone out of my way to make sure we're on the same page about scheduling. I'm almost always a bit early and if I'm ever late, I give ample warning (it has to do with family stuff that I need to do this). So, if I no showed entirely or was really late or especially didn't make a few appointments and was out of touch, he'd know something was genuinely wrong. I'd have to be in the hospital or have some sort of emergency or a broken phone for that to happen.

I agree with SD's apple and orange analogy. There are some things about my T where I would really like it if he'd be a different flavor (like have his schedule all regular and tidy and predictable for me, which he can't fully do) and I've just had to decide that it is worth dealing with those things to keep the relationship and work with him as my T. No one is going to be the complete package, so we have to decide which stresors we can tolerate in someone who's going to be that close to us and which we can't. It totally sucks to find out once we've already gotten close that we might not be able to handle that relationship at this time. And I'm sorry.

Thank you Draggers...unfortunately, there are many on this board that can relate.
I hope you know my exasperation was not meant to be directed toward you...what you wrote is truth.

Yes, I am doing it but I am telling him this week if he doesn't change his boundary... I am out...Everything is overwhelming due to this boundary...stirring up stuff...if he compromised...the pain would lessen and I could manage it better.

Thank you for your kind words. I know what you are saying is true...although, at times, it is easier to look away...

Happy Fourth!
T.