Hi Anon

I do think that you will eventually make sense of all of this it's just that when we are in the middle of it, it is so messy and chaotic. You will come to a point where you feel more confident in your thoughts and actions. As you integrate things will come easier for you. Your focus will improve and you will have more trust in your decisions too. Things will just feel right to you.

As far as the memories being real or not or accurate or not.... I don't have recovered memories but I think that even if they are not exactly accurate as to every detail it does not matter. Obviously SOMETHING abusive and bad happened and you bear the fingerprints of it. So that makes it real. Of course, if we then accept that our memories are real and valid, then we have to face that bad things happened to us which is huge work on its own.

Do you share these thoughts and feelings with T? What does he say?

Hugs to you
TN

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As far as the memories being real or not or accurate or not.... I don't have recovered memories but I think that even if they are not exactly accurate as to every detail it does not matter

Thanks for all the support, everyone!

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Do you share these thoughts and feelings with T? What does he say?

Yes, I've always shared them with T, regarding not only past stuff surfacing, but present-day perceptions, my diagnosis (if I can't deny the memories themselves, I will go straight to saying the parts might be made up), etc.

At times T has confronted the places I am being illogical.

At other times, he has kind of just let me talk through it myself and asked questions that make me think.

He always says, especially since I'm not "doing" anything with the information, that I don't need to try to be the judge of that stuff or myself. He makes it spiritual here, about trusting God.

He emphasizes that whatever the case, this stuff is upsetting to me, and the sudden feelings that it isn't be true are part of my dissociation.

Lately he is pushing harder on what it does to other parts and how it reinforces the dissociation and prevents integration when I keep pushing this stuff away.

He has said that he is so glad he's not the one on the receiving end of this sort of treatment that I give myself, the interrogation and invalidation...that he would find it very hard to bear up under it.

He has me imagine treating Boo in that way, or else even being that hard on my parents, to help me realize how unfair I'm being (though I feel like I'm trying TO be fair by denying it).

He is very empathetic about how confusing and painful it is, and even when he pushes, he's really gentle and understanding.

But, it feels like I'm just...not making progress on this issue. At one point he said that, although it's obvious, he's noticed that if a patient has a really negative message from one parent, it's bad, but from both, it's kind of intractable. It's not impossible to break through it, but it's a lot more resistant to change. One of the major features of my upbringing was invalidation (of different sorts) from each of my parents. From my dad, it was about always interrogating every thought and trying to see the other side of things, and he would debate me no matter what I thought (even if I agreed with him) in a devil's advocate manner as a very young child. This left me with an "always wrong" feeling, and not being sure whether there was any truth that couldn't just be dismantled by him. With my mom, she actually believed things happened differently than they did somehow, and demanded everyone else do the same. She would also tell me I didn't feel how I said, or it was an exaggeration, or my perception of things being challenging was inaccurate. So, my dad challenged my thinking perceptions and my mom challenged my reality and internal/emotional perceptions. I get why I this is such a struggle for me, but it feels...hopeless at times.

I find a lot of treatment for severe dissociative conditions focus a lot on recovered memories, validating it further when any sort of healthy or unhealthy denial comes up. For me, I end up focusing even more on if things are true/not true and feel like my T is stepping in inappropriately - I get triggered MORE. I know in parts based stuff though, having that validation helps with system acceptance and your T is right that it does prevent integration. I'm sort of going through something similar. I empathize and can relate a lot to what you're writing here.

The judgement is really difficult if you're the type to question and interrogate everything you do (I'm definitely in that boat with you as I relate to myself too!). There is some stuff coming up for me, not necessarily recovered but in a way related to specific events of part of a whole I already know about. I wish I could describe it but it's upsetting so I'm trying to think of a non-related example... well okay here is one, let's say I have a memory come up that is me naked at school - well, I've never shown up to school that way.. but the feelings that come up are exposure and sometimes that's the only way my brain has to say that to me... Anyway, THAT sort of crap right there makes anything else hard to deal with.

Just remember... your T would help and comfort you no matter what, it's not more or less based on anything you've been through. Whether you feel things are true or not, whether they actually are true or not - like I think you've said and other people have before too it's all about the feelings. I totally get the betrayal thing too... lately I feel so defensive and sympathetic towards my primary abusers because any time something negative comes up I think it's just my brain focusing on stupid fake negative stuff just so I have something to do in therapy and because I'm "confused" about how the relationship really was so I'm trying to make it to be worse than it is.

It sounds like you are having lots of trouble accepting Ts care... I do hear what you are ACTUALLY typing out, but what I feel is difficulty accepting Ts care. I think I feel like that because I'm processing my own stuff exactly like this, and just realized... I'm pretty sure that's what I'm afraid of. Not that I'm manipulating my memories, or if that matters or not but that I don't dare want to "make" someone care... but her care is not something I earn because of my history... and that is hard to hang on to

I know this stuff surfacing can be so painful, and I hope in some way you can be gentle with yourself, or at least the part it's coming up for because there is raw intensity there in the feelings. T has me try to say 'It's okay, I'm there with you, etc' I look at her like this:

Sorry, that was a lot of rambling about me there, I hope it could relate in some way. I really think what TN said was spot on. Know I'm rooting for you and I think you're writing out my struggles right now so... you are helping me a lot too, if that helps at all.

Cat - Thanks so much for replying. I had been following your threads on similar topics, and the preverbal one, and trying to reply, but I kept getting triggered by more internal denial stuff every time I tried to share at all. I really know you can empathize and appreciate that so much right now.

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I find a lot of treatment for severe dissociative conditions focus a lot on recovered memories, validating it further when any sort of healthy or unhealthy denial comes up. For me, I end up focusing even more on if things are true/not true and feel like my T is stepping in inappropriately - I get triggered MORE.

LOL, my poor T knows to be very careful overly validating things. If the things I'm saying just don't make any sort of logical sense, he will confront that. For example, there are things I know happened, that I was a teenager when they happened, that other people have confirmed happened, that still happen in similar fashion today in my family...and I can manage to wonder if they were true or I'm exaggerating the emotions related to them when I begin to dissociate due to overwhelm. So, obviously, he's gotta confront that. But, for the most part, T sticks with the, "You don't need to do that," line of things when I am fighting with the memories, that it's just about bringing up what's going on inside, not judging it, etc.

If he even is too comforting (ooh, you hit on it with the care thing there), it's really uncomfortable and he gets a lot of resistance. When I was leaving yesterday, after sharing some really hard stuff (who knows if it was a memory or a confused synthesis of unrelated traumas due to triggering or a nightmare or fear I had as a kid due to other past experiences), my T said simply that he was sorry things were so painful, sorry I had to experience it (through the flashback or whatever it was) and to be stuck in so much confusion over it and what it means about ME (what it meant as a child, what it means now). I practically barked at him, on my way out, to not be so accepting, because it just triggers my need to invalidate it more. I don't know if that is to push his care away or if his acceptance creates some sort of movement inside that I'm resisting. Sigh. It feels so futile.

I have definitely experienced getting more information about stuff that was already there as a memory, whether it's feelings or associations or just more information, and for some reason, that doesn't make any difference, the denial is still there. It sucks that the stuff I have been able to confirm (furniture that I didn't remember, but was a part of a flashback, etc.) came along with a family member saying, "Why? Do you think you remember something? You probably just saw it in a photo," and I went trolling family photos until I found one that had it in it and then felt like, OK, I'm just making this up. I didn't even mention why I wanted to know about it. My family is not safe to confirm with, basically.

I know my T would totally be there for me no matter what, because he has said as much. And ugh, yeah, the focusing on the negative. I tell my T I'm doing that and then he asks me to talk about the positive and I do and it's just the same three or four things over and over again, not specific memories, but generalities of ways they were/are...and then I feel so guilty that my stupid brain didn't record enough good stuff...but my whole existence in that home was like retracted field of consciousness, because it was triggering to be too "present" in the chaos, I think, so it's not that there wasn't other good stuff, but probably just chronic dissociation, beyond any parts stuff, living there.

You really hit the nail on the head with the care thing. There is some association in my head that if I make...not just make...let someone care about me, I am breaking a rule and they are breaking a rule and I have made them be bad. I keep getting suck on it, and I guess that in itself speaks to the kind of messages my early caregiving gave me about being valued, so following the feelings here, whether or not very specific horrible things happened to me, I would consider myself a failure if Boo took those messages into her adulthood, you know? If I think about it that way, then I can say these feelings are important...'cause it's her and not me.

T is trying to get me to be kinder to other parts and I have this block where if I imagine really hard they're not me, I can do it, but if I don't, I feel very about it too. He says that in itself is a rejection of them, and he's really pushing harder, because I guess he thinks I can take it...and I suppose I can, because it's not making me go into crisis. Only I feel like a failure constantly.

Don't worry about any rambling. I can ramble-duel anytime. You writing your own struggles recently has helped me a lot too and I'm so glad, like I said, you replied, because I was struggling to do so in your thread and was afraid it would be like post-three-second-wait-delete. Hanging in there today. Living in the present and just taking a little break from worrying about this stuff.

Anon,

I know what you are saying that it feels real. It's the PSTD.. I sometimes experience my abusers right with me... I can see them, smell them, and feel them. It is hard with Ts are even gently firm.. I've been sarcastic with mine before. Let me say that you are so supportive here and I hop ewe can support you. Hang in there.

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If I don't truly believe, I can't truly accept and if I don't accept of course I won't have to 'feel' the full force of it.

Ever so true Monte.

Monte - Sorry, crossposted. Thanks so much for your post. The more people who understand, the less alone it feels, but I feel for anyone in that same position. The only problem with knowing that the feelings are true is that I often can't know that. In the session, I was literally begging T to make it stop, because it was so distressing...yet hours later, it felt like it didn't matter at all, even if it was true, like the feelings were just yanked out of me. Part of that is habit from having my feelings invalidated, part of that is dissociating from the overwhelm...but it's so hard to even believe it was distressing unless I kind of play over the session in my mind as if I am watching some other person and can objectively analyze the distress.

You're spot on that pushing away from acceptance means not having to fully feel its impact. And when I was in it, I kept wanting T to help me figure out what it "means" if this is true, or rather what exactly I think it means...like something irredeemable...but I couldn't get at it enough to really connect with it. T definitely does show me that I'm not defined by my past. The close work, the listening to all of this and staying close, not withdrawing, tolerating my shame in a way that I can't...it makes a difference. It's just...so...slow. It feels like I'll be in therapy forever and I'm still scared to death that even though he has no intention of retiring any time soon that it will happen sooner than I'm ready to deal with.

(((Ang))) Thank you for your support. Yeah, the PTSD. Sometimes I get mad at myself for having it. This definitely was a see and feel memory, but not a hear or smell memory. I don't know what that's about. T actually asked some questions about what was being heard and smelled, based on some of the information I gave (because it felt like the other part was drawing conclusions about what was going on that I didn't understand from the raw material being shared), but that information was...just not there. I'm terrified to have any more information than I already had, though, so I guess I'll just be thankful for now. The body memories lingered for hours yesterday and I feel nauseous just thinking about them right now...you know, unless I'm lying.

(((BLT))) (((TN))) (((muff))) Sorry for not thanking you guys all earlier too. I really appreciate everyone's support right now. I'm terribly confused and it helps to have other people hear that and say it's OK to be confused and also OK to accept things when I'm ready, that it doesn't make me bad if I do accept "myself" in that way.

Hi ((non))

It's been hard for me to really articulate what I mean in my own threads lol, and I understand having thoughts but not fully being able to reply, or get them out.

I'm glad you know your T is gentle with you and sorry the care is hard to take in. My T does the same thing with externalizing (talking about a friend's kid I know and what I'd expect of him). Even when I feel like the parts I have to be compassionate with are separate... (or like an external object) I still hate them.

T talks about the... process... meaning what comes up comes up.. when I can't process it it's easy for it to turn in to the feeling of failure like you're talking about.

Hope today is treating you well... it's still the weekend, thank goodness!

(((Cat)))

Thanks for checking in on me. Yesterday was pretty busy. Boo had a Kindergarten playdate to meet her soon-to-be classmates. She starts later this week, because it's a year-round school. I feel like I know it's affecting me profoundingly in some (past-related) way that I can't quite understand. Today, we are visiting with the little girl I used to watch, which is really nice. I'm not really dissociating it, but consciously putting it all aside until tonight when I can talk it over with T. I guess...at least...that's heartening that compared to a year ago, I can be more in now, even when this really difficult stuff is coming up, to find the right time and place to process. I get scared to say that, though, because every time I notice an improvement, it seems like some real life issue or some past stuff popping up causes some sort of mini-crisis, lol. Maybe I'm unconsciously resisting the progress? I dunno.

Thanks again to all who have been supporting me. Sorry I've been so busy and absent lately.