F---! I just wrote a whole long reply to you and accidentally hit a command that closed the window right as I was about to click post. I am WAY too pissed to rewrite it right now, but I will try to come back to it later. Sorry! Just wanted to let you know that I read and DID have a lot of thoughts on it. Ugh.

Cool! I want to hear more. Forgive me, but I have to get this out...

I'm wondering if it is possible. I need to know it is possible, because sometimes I just need someone to talk to and help me process without "one" assuming from the get-go that they know me better than I know myself or that their judgement automatically trumps mine because they happen to be the T. Yes, there are times where T may show me something that I missed. But this MUST be done respectfully. I expect no less from either party.

I have found that some T's have a strong need to be "right" and some clients (I have been there myself) have a strong need to feel accepted and gain the approval of T, and will put up with almost anything to get that approval, including doubting one's own sense of reality, extreme self-doubt, and deeper depression. I hate to say it, but the way in which this dynamic resembles an abusive relationship is a little scary, and I was hesitant to use such intense language, but I have to say it.

I almost fell for it. I'm so glad that I chose not to.

In order for me to even consider re-entering therapy I have to know that it can be done in the spirit of partnership and collaboration.

quote:

where both parties are active and engaged, and a climate of mutual respect and trust is fostered

I can do this when I am there with T as an adult.

But, there is a child-me coming out a lot with her, lately. A sad, desperate, etc, etc, etc child-me. It doesn't work then.

Just my thought on it.

OK, I'm going to try again, but I feel like I basically lost all the information as soon as I typed it the first time.

I think this is actually kind of how my relationship with my T is, to a certain degree. I don't think it will ever be completely that way, because of the transference I experience, which means there will always be an element of authority or imbalance in the relationship. But, I actually view that as kind of a positive thing, because there is so much I have to work through in terms of attachment, connection, control, authority. There are so many relationships I've avoided, because I couldn't see allowing any of those things externally as safe, so T provides a safe place for me to practice those sorts of relationships.

What you wrote kind of reminded me of something I posted lately about the relationship between T and myself, the work we do together, being almost a sort of entity on its own. And lately, it seems that rather than seeing him as being or at least regulating all the vital organs, I am beginning to sense it as more of a cooperative effort, a sort of delicate balance. It's kind of like each T and I are standing on opposite ends of a see-saw, any little shift will require a recalibration. And honestly, in any relationship, there is a give and take, times when an individual might take on more or less of the responsibility in the relationship. In the case of therapy, T has more explicit responsibility (to create and maintain the frame), but that doesn't divest me as the client of any responsibility or ability to input, really. Jeez, this is not at all what I was writing the first time and I feel like I'm missing something essential here.

But, I do feel like my T and I are very together in the process. The work is the relationship, it's all held in there (or mostly, from the way we work). And the relationship itself is a constant negotiation. Any relationship is. It is just that in therapy, those negotiations can (maybe should or have to) be more explicit.

While my T does have a PhD and about 30 years of experience in the field, I have never once felt what you said in your second post, a sort of need to be "right" or assert a superseding judgment of some sort. Part of it is just not who he is as a person. He sees himself as not relying on himself, but on God. He is very humble (in the charming, not overly self-depricating way) and always values my contributions of my internal experiences, sense of the way things are going, what would be helpful, etc. Not that he defers to me automatically, but there is always a sense that what I have to offer is highly valued to him, even though he may himself disagree or have other insights. I guess what I am trying to explain here is a sense of being both trusted and valued and I am able to return those same things to him, learn to be safe valuing his contribution, while not succumbing to the past need to negate my own in return. Well, that last part is a learning process as I still shut down sometimes when he can't understand a concept.

I think my T would agree with my assessment of our work and probably, in his own humble way, attribute the affects of it to God. I do agree with the parts of the quote that get at mutual respect (I think I used the word value--I didn't reread the quote until just now) and trust, and that it is fostered through mutual understanding as well. But, as I said, any relationship is constantly shifting, so a perfect balance of contribution is less likely (and ideal) than an average balance of it.

I wish I could get back that last post. It made so much more sense. I think in the end, I acknowledge (and am grateful for) those things which cannot be fully "mutualized" in the relationship, like certain responsibilities. There are times when working through very young stuff (especially with hurting inner kids), I just need to know there is a wholly responsible other person to keep us working safely.

Sorry this was so rambly. I'm still ridiculously pissed at losing the first, more concise, better written post. Grrrr.

Ninn: I understand. Overall, does it feel like synergy?

Yaku: In reading the first paragraph, I'm wondering if it's a matter of skill on the T's part to allow this to happen. A delicate balance, or a dance. It does get complicated...

But overall, yes, a general feeling of collaboration.

quote:

But, I do feel like my T and I are very together in the process. The work is the relationship, it's all held in there (or mostly, from the way we work). And the relationship itself is a constant negotiation. Any relationship is. It is just that in therapy, those negotiations can (maybe should or have to) be more explicit.

This is very important. If one person remains "in control" and there is an imbalance, the therapy is less effective. We stopped negotiating, my T and I, and it got to the point where it was his way or the highway, and I said no, but kept hanging in there, wanting to explain my point of view, but at the same time still win his approval. It wasn't going to happen.

It might also have to do with experience. No two clients are the same. I'm so glad your T values your internal experiences. It sounds relationship-driven, vs. technique-driven.

That sense of trust you spoke of- so true. A T can't just give up trying to earn a client's trust all of a sudden in an attempt to "fix" the client. It did pretty much destroy the trust we had. With that trust, it is much easier to value the other person's contribution, gain insight from it, and apply it to our "real" life attitudes, thoughts, and behaviors.

Trust building has to be an ongoing process, and it seems like that is what your T is doing. As you said, it is about an average overall balance.

It is difficult to make the transition from the "kid" stuff to the adult relationship? This is also where I think we went wrong. I allowed myself to go there, and because of what happened, I think I will have a difficult time ever going "back" to that place again.

I'm glad you posted this, it does help me make sense of things. It seems like a very good therapeutic relationship. I honestly was never sure how the whole "process" was supposed to flow, and this gives me more insight.

Thanks!

Hi all.

This is called Nonspecific factors in psychological therapy , and I have used with my T, is hard work to get to that point, and hard work also from the T,
Greetings

I also do co counselling which is a form of therapy where both are equals, meet as equal and give each other equal time. You can train in it over about 8 - 10 weeks one evening a week and then make contact with local people trained in it. I had a very good co counselling partner some years ago and we worked well together for many years.