quote:

I am wondering why it matters, and I am writing here to ask if anyone can remind me of that. I mean to say, if I am feeling irritable, tense, and self destructive why does that matter at all and why should it matter to T? Why should I talk to T about these things? What is the point?

OK, well with the disclaimer that I have been saying almost since I started therapy that I wanted to cut back, and still haven't...

If I were your therapist I would consider your therapy fundamentally incomplete if you didn't yet have a felt sense of why your experience matters and why it is beneficial to share it with others. I would challenge you to stop trying to leave before you can go in there and answer those exact questions.

It matters because it's what you are experiencing. It matters because you are worth caring about and you deserve that care and compassion. And you deserve giving yourself the time and experience of expressing those feelings to someone. It matters because YOU matter.
I hope you and your daughter feel better soon.

Hi, HIC.

I ask myself those questions -- or very similar ones -- all the time. I've been told (and maybe I'm learning because I'm voicing them, too) that it matters because it is what you feel and that's important and they deserve to be worked through, whether validated or debunked, and sometimes we are too entwined to be able to do it on our own.

You are worth being cared about and cared for, and our Ts can help us and can listen to us and help us work toward solutions or just heard.

I think...

(((HIC)))

I think everyone in therapy has likely asked themselves this question at least once. It's hard work, and sometimes slow, painful and endlessly frustrating. I think one thing that's very important to remember right now is that you said you had a challenging session, both you and your daughter were sick on top of how low you're feeling. ANYONE would struggle with that much stress all at once, and I think it's really vital to recognize when the stresses of life are piling on top of the lens of hopefulness.

That said, I think it's also really important to see how far you've come, instead of focusing only on how far you'd yet like to go. You haven't gotten worse, and are maintaining, and that is really huge!! It's easy in the midst of feeling stuck and hopeless to completely forget what amazing things have been accomplished. Can you remember a time when you might not have thought you'd be as far along as you are now?

And the reason why it matters, is a very personal set of answers I believe... for some a genuine desire to escape pain, for some they might even be at a point of healthy self care, believing they matter and continuing to go through therapy for their own sake.

For me personally, I have many days when I can't see my own worth anymore, and only find strength to see the point in all of this when I think of those I love. Thinking of your daughter is one big motivation I can see from your post to keep remembering why it matters (I'm not sure of your situation beyond that or if you have other children) Maybe that isn't the best approach, but it helps me a great deal...

I hope you can keep hanging on and remembering how much you've accomplished.

((HIC)) It matters because you matter. Whether you can feel your own worth or not, makes it no less true that you are a unique creation with dignity and worth and the world would be a lesser place without you in it. And you deserve to have your feelings heard and be able to move freely through your life, living it to the fullest.

But when you're slogging along through the mud, sweat and tears, under the clouds, it can be hard to remember that the moon and sun are still there, and always there is light. It doesn't always feel like this and it won't always feel like this.

Thanks, everyone. I'm feeling better today. I am going to talk about all of this with T next week; here's hoping I gain something from that.

quote:

OK, well with the disclaimer that I have been saying almost since I started therapy that I wanted to cut back, and still haven't...

lol, I just had this random memory, have to check the actual thread, but didn't we both resolve to be done with therapy by the end of the year at the start of 2013?

It's a Wonderful Life.

HIC, I have really enjoyed reading your posts and your insights, and appreciate your having shared them. I am glad you are feeling better and are going to talk with your T about this. I used to ask my T why what happened to me mattered in her life--we weren't friends or family members, we never saw each other outside of the weirdly ritualized times we met, which were orchestrated and paid for by me. None of her answers satisfied me until she told me one day, her voice a tad frustrated, "It matters to me because I see it. That's why it matters to me."

Somehow, that clicked for me. She saw it. She saw me. And, because I had worth to her simply as a human being, it mattered to her how I was doing.

I mattered because I was a human being.

I know you said you are feeling better, but I just want to reiterate what has been said by others in so many eloquent ways: You matter because you are a human being.

(((exploring)))

Thank you so much for the kind words! It's nice to meet you!

I've been thinking more on this topic. How do I move from an intellectual conviction (which grows shaky during difficult times) that I matter because I am a human being, to a felt sense of worth that would change the way I handle these things? Is that something that just changes in the course of the therapy relationship, as you pick up on more self esteem via implicit learning? How long does that take???

HIC, I totally get this question, I believe. I think what you are asking goes to the heart of "why do therapy at all." First, we have to hear our therapists when they counter our unconscious, and sometimes conscious, self-negating beliefs. Then, we have to start believing it on an intellectual level. Finally, and perhaps most difficultly, we have to internalize this message on an emotional level.

I've heard therapy equated to brain surgery on a microscopic level, because the aim is to significantly alter neural pathways.

I think recognizing the negative thought patterns when they start to activate is a first step. Then remembering the new ways of thinking can kick in. Repeated over and over, thought patterns can be altered.

This sounds like CBT, but really, I think it happens when interactions with the therapist, or within relationships, are consistent over a period of time. That's why having an ethical and kind therapist is so important.

I don't believe that therapy is the only way to heal thought patterns. I do, however, believe it can be a powerful way to do so. Our limbic systems attune to each other in attachment relationships, and I believe that gets right at the core of the negative thought processes--literally.

Just my thoughts.

((HIC))

((((HIC))))

For me, having my therapist take my feelings seriously led to me caring more about my feelings. Now, sometimes, rather spontaneously, I will say to myself, "but it's important to me" or "it affects me this way even if it doesn't affect the other person in the same way". I also think setting goals, working towards them and making progress along the way that you can see helps because you become vested, as in, "Hey, I worked hard for that and I'm not just going to let so and so come in and take it all away from me." And then you start to assert yourself more. It's going to take time to thaw out and let ourselves feel again. Hang in there.

((HIC)) I too struggle with actually feeling worthy and that I matter. I don't know how to turn my cognitive/logical realization that 'I matter because I am a person and people have worth' into one of deep emotional connection to my worth. Like you, I want to feel that I matter, on an automatic, implicit level. I do think the answer lies within the therapist's consistent attuned and empathic stance...and repeatedly experiencing your worth within the relationship. I agree with Exploring that therapy has the potential to change neural pathways in the brain. It's just really tough work. I don't know how long it's going to take for me to truly feel that I matter. At times I think I'm getting there but then I'll feel that all too familiar feeling and get almost defeated.

I'm sorry I have nothing useful to add but wanted to say that I totally relate. I know you haven't written in awhile, but I'm curious how your therapy is going? I completely understand if you'd rather not write about it. Either way, I hope you are doing okay!

(((exploring))) (((Liese))) (((erica)))

Thank you so much for coming back with further thoughts; they really did help as I've been mulling over things and the purpose of it all and the whys of therapy. Sometimes I think, "I'm in therapy so I can be functional and stop destructive coping mechanisms." So if I'm "functioning", and my coping isn't all *that* destructive, I start to feel like perhaps I should be done. Thinking that the therapy is worthwhile so I can feel better is a bit of a personal paradigm shifter for me! I think it's at that level that I run into the questions about mattering.

Sorry it's takne me awhile to reply, I haven't been in a good head space for writing and the kids have still been sick, but everything is getting better now.

I really liked the image of therapy as brain surgery on a microscopic level. I'm going to hold onto that one. (Okay, that was off topic, to continue. . .)

erica,
I don't at all mind writing more about how my therapy is going. Thanks for asking. I've been having to think a bit about how to answer. I know I said earlier that I felt like I'd been treading water the last few months and while that's true in the sense that there have been no major breakthroughs, I feel that I've been changing slowly over time in some ways specifically related to the therapy and how I view my therapist.

I think I've loosened my hold on some defenses that were preventing my progress a bit. Part of it is that for awhile, I didn't even see them as defenses. Going back in time a bit-- I used to get angry at T and doubt her competence more. I also used to go off in to intellectualizing lala land a lot. I've been thinking about that specifically; one thing I've learned about myself is that I'm attracted to systems for filtering data of all kinds. This is something that crops up across a wide variety of my interests. Complex, abstract systems are good; and the more esoteric the better. My T's approach is very unsystematic (she'd probably call it holistic and eclectic, fluid or such like), and at first that made me skeptical, but I wanted to work with her anyway because I "attached" to her, in a tortured insecure kind of way, practically from the first session.

I followed key psych cafe advice and talked to her about how I worried that our different styles might be a problem. She asserted that she was very eclectic, and that if I had a specific approach I wanted to take or technique I wanted to try, to let her know and she would try to accommodate. This worried me a little bit (perhaps with reason) and I know I did some posting around that time on the forum which some may remember, but in the end I decided to run with it. I have to admit, I kind of liked the idea of being in charge. I knew T was humoring me, but I didn't really care.

I started reading more psychology books. I read a massive tome on treating attachment disorders, I went through a "Jungian" phase for a few months where I had us doing dream interpretation and talking about mother complexes and such, I tried art therapy for awhile and dragged in volumes of my scribblings for discussion and analysis. I can't say it wasn't fun, and I'm sure some of it was productive.

I was still frustrated that I wasn't making more progress, and when I expressed those frustrations to her she pointed out to me more firmly than she had before that my therapy was taking longer than it would otherwise because I was so defended emotionally and intellectualized everything. She said if I could try to go to the feeling realm more often, and be more emotionally spontaneous, it might help. She had said this before, but I think it was at that point it finally clicked. I started to think that my opinions about therapy were not necessarily worth much, and may have been more about staying in charge and in control out of fear than anything else. At least that is how it was working out functionally. Since then, I've been trying to defend less and trust more, and acknowledge the confusion and ambiguity and misery I often try to avoid. My respect for T and desire to appropriately receive guidance from her has grown.

I've been talking to her more about the things the relationship brings up, especially these last few weeks. I would jump through all kinds of hoops to earn her approval or make her happy, yet at the same time I realize she isn't exactly witholding her approval (she never has, and in fact compliments me a lot, which also makes me nervous. . . ) and she seems like a happy-enough-person-on-the-whole, although I know she's had some down times. I feel like I'm trying desperately to hold onto something that I might not be in danger of losing in the first place.

So, I told her that, and I also told her just yesterday (as part of the mattering conversation) that the thought that she might care one way or the other how I was doing was alarming to me, because I didn't know what to do with that, but that the thought that she might not care was alarming too, because it made me mad. I said that really, just sitting in the same room with her was alarming, and she said sarcastically, "Well, I'm *sorry*." (But I think she was just being playful. )

She went on to talk about shame, and fear of rejection, and so forth. She said that being seen and valued for who I was felt good, but it was also scary for me because there was the thought of losing the person (her), of them disapproving of me or rejecting me.

I started to space out a little bit, and she asked me what was wrong and what I needed from her. I told her that I did not feel very reassured. I said that it sounded like she was phrasing things very carefully and being clinical. She kind of gaped at me and stammered something about it being the end of the day and that she was trying to get her words right. I said, "Things can be a little more human. Why can't you say 'Of course I care about you, HIC! I've known you a long time now and I have feelings, too. Of course it disturbs me to think of you struggling."

And she said, "Well, of *course*! Of course all of that." And she went on to repeat what I had said pretty much verbatim, but in her own words. She also told me that she did *not* like to think of me suffering all alone when reaching out to her would help, and next time to email. Then she grinned at me and said, "And look at you! The quintessentially clinically speaking person wanting to be all emotional. This is good! This is really good!"

I smiled back and told her that I felt better.

I don't really know where I'm going next with any of this, but it was such a good session and I think we're getting somewhere. Thanks for reading and letting me ramble.

HIC, Wow!!!

I think this is almost giving me courage to be more forthright too!! Thank you for sharing this--I loved reading it. :-)