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working through the impasse

MallardMallardMember
The supervision thing makes me go Confused

Most schools of therapy require you to be in supervision in order to be practising safely and competently. I know that in private practice people can essentially do what they want but it is definitely not considered the norm to only consult a supervisor when you feel something might be off, since part of the whole point of supervision is getting an experienced third party to help you identify where your stuff is getting in the room but you are not really aware of it. I wouldn't see a T who didn't attend regular supervision. The idea that he didn't want to consult a supervisor doesn't really sit brilliantly with me.

I'm sorry it is such a hard road for you Liese. I don't think you have expressed anything unreasonable. I kind of feel that this loop you get into should be the most interesting thing to him, not something that keeps getting shut down. I highly doubt you bring this stuff up unnecessarily - if it is important to you then to me it feels like legitimate therapy material.

Like others say, I also wonder whether you have reached a new developmental stage in your journey and it is a step he can't take, because of his modality, personality or own personal stuff.

Thinking of you Hug two
L lieseMember
(((COGS)))(((MALLARD)))(((DRAGGERS)))

Thanks for support. It means a lot. I don't know what the deal is with the supervision. I don't know if he's against it generally or if it's just with me because he thinks I'm trying to change him. He would have talked to my trauma therapist but that was more of him filling her in type of thing - or that's how he saw it.

It's hard to know if I'm at a new stage or not. I feel stronger. That's a good thing. All the good work he and I have done has laid a solid foundation. Everything he and I were working for together is starting to happen. It just seems like such an odd time for him to throw up his hands and say he's burnt out. But it is what it is. He definitely has more trouble with the interpersonal dynamic and that's where we get stumped, time and time again. He doesn't seem to be able to use his emotions as a tool as opposed to a machete. Wink

Haha, Draggers, at least I'm not the old car. Smiler On first read, I thought you were referring to me and I thought, geez, maybe I really should give it up. Phew, I was relieved when you were talking about my quasi-therapist.

It's inspiring to hear that you have made progress much more quickly with your new therapist compared to the other therapist. I hope I find the same thing.
L lieseMember
((((TAS))))

I asked for too much and he gave more than he wanted. I took too much and he resented it.

Luckily, I was reading some dr. dan siegel before I went to my session. Sarah Peyton seems to be associated with dr. dan siegel. I don't know who she is but I like what she wrote:

quote:
Key Concepts of IPNB
a. Every person’s mind, including mine, is hard- wired to reach for integration and connection.
b. Rigidity and chaos are expressions of places where my mind is not in full expression of its capacity to be integrated – flexible, adaptive, coherent, energized and stable.
c. My brain is neuroplastic, and always learning. I can change my implicit experience into explicit
experience and transform rigidity and chaos into integration. (see next slide)
copyright Sarah Peyton 2010
Key Concepts of IPNB cont.
• c. (continued) I can transform old neural networks into new relationships with the world. States become traits with practice. When I focus energy and information flow in an integrative practice (being aware of my awareness, paying attention to my intention) I strengthen the integrative fibers of the brain, shifting my baseline response to approach instead of withdrawal, improving my immune system and my blood pressure, increasing my empathy and my relationships with others.
copyright Sarah Peyton 2010
d.
Key Concepts of IPNB Cont.
The more integrated I am, the more able I am to see behind words or action to the reach for integration and connection, and to have mindsight into the experience of others – attuning to their internal experience, and respecting their ability to be distinct from me, thus making our interpersonal connection more flexible, adaptive, coherent, energized and stable.
copyright Sarah Peyton 2010



Foundational Ideas of NVC
a. Everything that people do is an attempt to meet needs, in other words, we are always and only reaching for life.
b. When I understand this, I know that no matter what a person is expressing, it is an attempt to enrich life.
c. I do not want to have my needs met at the expense of others' needs, that is, I want to value another's needs as I do my own.
d. I know that when my needs are seen empathically and when I see another’s need empathically, that it stimulates natural compassion. We then want to contribute to each other's well-being.
e. All attacks, criticism, etc. are tragic expressions of needs.
copyright Sarah Peyton 2010

catalystcatalystMember
I think if a therapist can acknowledge being professionally out of depth or like the therapy failed or uncomfortable with something regarding the patient... They should refer out.

Expecting a T to seek supervision, read things constantly, be challenged and psychoanaized to constantly change their working style, and talk to consult(S) is a lot to expect for a single patient. It would be nice but of a therapist isn't interested or overwhelmed or likely can't help the patient no matter how much they want to be useful.

Liese, im so sorry for what you're going through. I know the attachment is difficult, and you can justify so much when talking about your FOO... But it honestly may be time to stop the continued consults to talk about him and what he needs to help you and find someone that works for you in a comparable way. You already have another therapist... I know from working with two there is a tendency to process stuff about one with the other... But having it prolonged is not effective in my experience. My T would stop me at one point and explain we aren't my Ts therapist.

I hope this doesn't come off as harsh, and I'm sorry if it does. I can relate so so much because of my pain with T2 a while back. I think making up this world about your T... About what he just think, or feel, or have a dead wife, or have these problems in his past.. It's not worth it. He won't tell you and you're not his T and I think time may be better served with all of these consults and getting support if I could hear more about your feelings Frowner I understand wanting to know Ts life, even making up one to ensure it happens but... Please consider you in this.
L lieseMember
(((CAT)))

Yes I agree. It is time to move on. It does hurt but I see the writing on the wall. Have spoken to and met with lots of nice therapists - all willing to work with me - so I am very lucky there.

I know you can relate only all too well because of your experience with T2. Frowner These emotional memories are just killers, aren't they?

It's too bad he wasn't able to refocus attention on me and my life. I think he enjoyed the focus on him for a while. Until he didn't. LOL!
L lieseMember
And, yes,CAT, it did hurt a bit to read what you wrote but it's the truth and I know you are only trying to spare me future pain. Smiler Just to reassure you, the point of all the consults, though, is to find someone to work with in the future - not to psychoanalyze him. When I landed on his doorstep, I didn't know anything about therapeutic orientations, etc. I know I can't protect myself from being hurt again in another therapy relationship but I can at least be smart about picking someone who has an interest in and experience in my issues. So far, I've been really impressed with those I have met but I am also only looking in a certain area: female therapists who do relational therapy. They all seem to be involved with some type of supervision - willingly - which is music to my ears. The only exception there is the consult tonight with the gay male art therapist who does EMDR. He works with dissociation. Why not? Maybe EMDR could really help me and I like art. Smiler Sounds like a potential match.
L lieseMember
Tas

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. My gut says I crossed an emotional line and set T off in a way that is not good for the future of our relationship. Rightly or wrongly of me or of him or both of us, it is what it is. I have no desire to drag him through the mud. He helped me a lot. I want to preserve his dignity and mine. If I am lucky, I can squeak out a fairly good ending so we both wind up feeling good about ourselves. Not my job, I know, but it's the way I want it. I've had too many dead bodies in mg past. Not interested in having another one. We both tried hard.
I incognitoMember
TAS

I wanted to say that I don't think Liese is leaving because her T won't give her something that she is requesting and that may have been the impression because of her attempt to summarize things into one sentence (Liese please let me know if I am wrong). I am concerned that you might find it difficult to "watch" someone else leave their T if you have identified with their experiences in therapy and struggled with the same issues. Once again I am projecting a lot here and if it offends either of you, Liese and TAS, please let me know and I'll take it down. I definitely have identified with Liese and her struggles with her T. I think that she is really leaving T because of his inability to respond to her therapeutically when she was struggling to understand and respect his boundaries. The therapy became about his feelings of being disrespected and feeling pressure to change and stopped being about Liese and why the boundary was so painful for her.

Liese I think that is why I think you should find a new T because whether he would be willing to consult or have supervision or what he is willing to read is not the deal breaker for me. I think it is him continuing to be concerned with his own feelings and experiences during your therapy. I can imagine a T reacting that way initially but after time to consider things that is still his primary concern and that isn't therapeutic. I have done some things in my therapy that were hurtful to my T and he has always talked about how my actions were expressing a lot of my internal pain and wouldn't allow me to spend very long on how he felt (if I was apologizing or asking if he was going to quit for example).

Liese, sorry for the hijack but I want to say I think a new T with a very different orientation might be a great experience. Please let us know how it goes.

T tasMember
Incognito: My intent was not to project anything into the situation as I honestly want Liese to find what it is she is looking for and have a true, confident connection with her next Therapist.

Liese: It certainly was not my intent to read anything into it. I truly hope you find what it is you are looking for in a Therapist.

PS: I deleted my message because I did not want it to be misconstrued or taken out of context. The last thing I want to do is to be offensive or hurt anyone's feelings.

All the best,
T.
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