quote:

but at first I was so hesitant to call because I felt so ashamed that maybe the only reason I want to see him next week is because I want to be close to him (he told me that's why he thinks I want to come weekly) ..... I cried and cried over the shame ...

Liese... of course you want to be close to him. He is your attachment figure and when you are stressed or sad or insecure you long to be near him. Proximity seeking is what it's called. Another thing... he may also function as your external emotional modulator... when you are with him you are able to more easily regulate your affect. He makes you feel calm right? AT least most times and for a bit after you leave therapy but then it fades away. You cannot hold the connection for very long right? What is supposed to happen is that you will internalize him and be able to eventually hold onto the connection longer and longer until you can go out on your own like AG did.

What concerns me is that his attitude towards your wanting to be close/near to him makes you feel ashamed. He should be totally accepting of your need to be close and not feel that you have some nefarious ulterior motive. This is supposed to happen in therapy but some CBT Ts resist the attachment. This is not part of CBT therapy. And the fact that you are asking for a weekly session is NOTHING to be ashamed of. Most people go weekly if they can afford it and others go more than that. You are not making anything up to see him... these are real feelings you are struggling with. And yeah I know you really like him because he makes you feel good and calm. And part of helping you to be more secure and independent is to allow you to depend on him for awhile and also to ask for what you need. you are learning to get your needs met now that didn't get met as a child. You need to feel that it's okay to ask for things.

If your T ever does get pissed off that you want to come in to see him... well I would take that as a red flag and think about running from him. But you just may be projecting that onto him when he would not be pissed off at all. So try to stay calm in the meantime. Hard to do I know.

As for transference you don't work through it I think you work WITH it. Transference is the feelings you have for people in your past that you sort of transfer onto your T. This will bring up all kinds of situations and feelings that you connect back to your past and find insight into why you think and feel the way you do. And why you are who you are today and what was missing from the past that you should have had.

Hope this helps.
TN

TN .. Thanks so much for your reply ... it was really on the mark and it helped so much .... I guess I will only know when I go to see him ... I do just need a little comforting right now from him .... no more tough stuff this week ... I did tell him once he was my wire monkey and he said that was okay .... your probably right about the pissed off part ... probably transference again ... we'll see ... you're right ... if he is pissed off, I should run ....

TN ... and I think you are right about the external emotional modulator .... why do I need one those?

quote:

of course you want to be close to him. He is your attachment figure and when you are stressed or sad or insecure you long to be near him. Proximity seeking is what it's called. Another thing... he may also function as your external emotional modulator... when you are with him you are able to more easily regulate your affect. He makes you feel calm right? AT least most times and for a bit after you leave therapy but then it fades away. You cannot hold the connection for very long right? What is supposed to happen is that you will internalize him and be able to eventually hold onto the connection longer and longer until you can go out on your own like AG did.

As for transference you don't work through it I think you work WITH it. Transference is the feelings you have for people in your past that you sort of transfer onto your T. This will bring up all kinds of situations and feelings that you connect back to your past and find insight into why you think and feel the way you do. And why you are who you are today and what was missing from the past that you should have had.

Hope this helps.
TN

Thanks, TN - tha tcoul dhave been written for me too, so helpful.
My C was all the above for me, and so I truly feel like the abandoned child I was in real life, but I am at least here as an adult to look after the hurt child. sigh.
I am glad you Liese found it helpful too.

quote:

TN ... and I think you are right about the external emotional modulator .... why do I need one those?

Liese... you may need one because this was never modelled to you as a child. Your caregivers did not implicitly teach you to modulate your emotions because probably they never did it or knew how to do it either. If when there were problems in the house that frightened you and you needed comfort from your caregiver but they were acting either out of control themselves, or scared or angry then you never learned how to handle situations just by observing and being there. It's not something that is specifically taught... it's just something a child internalizes by being WITH the person. All of this relates to attachment.

Sheychen... glad you found it helpful too. Take care of your little one.

TN

I am trying to, I am out of my depth with that little part of me though. and no one to share it with.

Tn ... yes I feel so calm when i leave him ... It really is a wonderful feeling ... I hope I can do that for myself one day .... and do it for my children when they are upset ....

The transference stuff is so tricky ... at first I thought it meant just the "love" stuff I've felt for my therapists but now I see it's really everything ... the way I think he's sending me evil messages (not psychotic - but just messages through his behavior and actions ) .... the way I feel so ashamed that I want to see him more ... the way I thought I was going to be judged by his secretary ... I had no idea that it was having such a powerful influence on my life ....

But in order for me to get to the transference, I had to develop a separate self, another eye, if you will .... that actually saw my needs .... I think that only happened recently .... the ability to see my needs and his needs .... and to consider mine as more important to me .... and to let him take care of his needs (his busy schedule) .... but to at least ask to get my needs met ....

I feel the same way about this forum ... I probably would have left therapy had I not known we were all facing the same issues .... It seems to me to be a failing of therapy that it makes the transference stuff so mysterious .... probably more people would stay .... I don't understand why they don't explain the process more ... although i am such a ZELIG .... that I'd probably start imaging things ..... maybe that's why ....

I just wanted to write an update .... I had a really bad week last week and called my T for a session ... he was so booked but I got put on his float list ..... The waiting was agony ... did he hate me? Is he trying to tell me to go away? I did get a call yesterday morning that a slot opened up and went in to see him ...(No he doesn't hate me .... Oh, all this transference stuff ....it's driving me crazy!)

I just really wanted him to hear me out and I figured that if I kept my cool and talked in a controlled manner and just talked about life from my perspective ... how I've been feeling .... and not make accusations towards him .... that if I just threw it all out there and he still thought I just wanted to see him to get closer to him, or reacted badly in some other way, then I would know he wasn't the T for me and it was time to move on .....

I didn't want him to interrupt .... I was afraid to tell him this, so I wrote him a note and asked him if he would just listen to me for a little while ... and then I told him everything that had been going on inside me for the last 6 months that I haven't been sharing ..... and he really really listened ... and we talked about the transference .... well, the only disappointing thing was that he mentioned medication ... very gently because he knows I had problems with medication in the past ... but just to throw it out there .... and I thought of all of you who have been concerned that that's what you would hear too ..... and I thought how ironic .... I didn't expect that from him .....He always seemed so supportive that I could battle this without medication .... anyway ....

I just thought I had finally connected with all the pain I've been hiding from myself ... but I didn't have that conversation with him yet ... next time ... it's on the list ....

Anyway ... he was glad I talked to him about it all and was very receptive and taking it all into consideration .... and said as long as we could talk, we could work together .... and I thought about the way he reacted to me when I told him I didn't think he cared about me, how defensive he got .... sometimes i wonder with these therapists if they act the way, say our spouses (or most people out in the real world) would???? or was he really defensive ....??? I know if I ask him that, he'd never tell me ... or he'd probably tell me that he was defensive ... who knows ....

Anyway, he also told me that he heard me about how defensive he was and he was bringing it down a level or two ..... and he knew I needed that ... and that was really awesome .....

I did ask him about CBT and transference and he said that well, of course he deals with it ... he just doesn't make the connections to the parents ..... like, you're feeling this way because of the way you felt towards your mother .... it's just memories, according to him .... emotional memories that have to be corrected ....

So all in all, I felt great when i left, like we were really on the same page ... and it felt great to unload all the stuff I've been thinking about for 6 months ..... But today I am back down on earth and know that I have a long road ahead of me ... I guess it was a start though ... to be able to talk to him about that stuff ..... Awareness is the first step ....

Wow...good for you, Liese! It's great that you managed to get it all out there on the table like that, and that he was supportive and let you talk about it all. As for the CBT, I don't really know anything about it, much, but I would assume that any T who is willing to work on the stuff and talk about it all, will be ok, as long he isn't locked into using whater his approach is...kwim? If he shuts you down, that would more be something to worry about, I would think. My T doesn't make connections to the past, at least, not directly. He will say, I just think this is coming from someplace else, and stuff like that. He a "in the moment" guy, I guess.Sometimes it would be helpful if he helped me make more connections I guess...do you feel that you want him to help you make specific connections to the past with the transference stuff? You might already be doing a lot of that without realizing it, and you could share those thoughts openly with him. See how that goes.

I didn't really understand the part of your post where you talked about him being defensive, and that he was willing to bring it down because you needed that. Did he admit that he was being defensive before? Or did it feel like he was just humoring you, and didn't actually believe that he had been defensive...? Just wondering.
All in all, it sound like you had a great session, and are starting to work on some of the deeper issues. If transference is an emotional memory that needs to be corrected, I guess that could be seen as just another way to put the same thing...having a corrective emotional experience as some people put it, or correcting an emotional memory? That sounds pretty good, although, I'm not sure how he meant it, so take what I say with a grian of salt...obviously..

I'm also not sure if I ever said hi? I think I did once, but just in case, hi, Liese!

BB

Hi Blackbird .... yes you did say hi once and I read your posts all the time when you respond to others ..... You are always so supportive and kind..... I just found your thread on the other channel ... I don't know what to call it ... and I see that you've been struggling a lot too ..... It's so hard, isn't it? I finally feel hope for the first time in my entire life ... just a glimmer ... but it's there .... so keep fighting BB .... Just keep doing all the things that you know will help even if you don't feel like it .... and eventually maybe one of them will click ....

In response to your questions .... my T sounds like yours ... a here and now guy ... and sometimes I do wish he would make those connections for me .... and I do get a little confused because he says he's a here and now guy but on the other hand, he talks about getting over your past ... and I'm not sure how to do that unless I make the emotional connections that I need to .... Another question on my list ..... That's actually what I thought they were supposed to do in therapy ... is help you identify patterns ..... maybe i am confusing the two ....

As far as his defensiveness is concerned ... when I first brought up that he didn't care about me, 3 sessions ago, .... I thought he reacted very defensively .... Had he said what he said in a calm voice, I don't think I would have had the reaction I had .... but his emotional level was kind of high .... and he seemed charged .... I asked him to stop yelling at me and almost started crying .... I was visibly shaken ... and he thought about it and said, hmmmm, maybe you're sensing my frustration .... and I got confused myself because it was the first time I brought it up and why would he be sooooo frustrated with me .... just give me some time to think about things ... I'm a reasonable person .....

My psychodynamic T, the one I left, once said to me, I can't get anything out of you .... and I thought about it ... and realized that she had been doing things to get at my fears of abandonment ...and I hadn't reacted and the memory that came back was my father telling me not to react to my sister's teasing, that she was just trying to get a reaction out of me .... and I realized that's why I wasn't reacting to my old T .... BUT I felt soooo manipulated by her and I was so angry that she was trying to get at my emotions and I thought, those are MY emotions and no one has a right to them except me ...... and I have been very fearful that this T would do that .... and he knows that about me and promises that he won't manipulate me .... but when I see the way he reacts sometimes, I just wonder, is it an act? to get at my fears? to get me to react a certain way???? He promises me he could never win an academy award .... so the way I deal with it is that I have decided that if he is acting ... and he definitely will not budge on his position that he is not acting .... that he is trying to help me, not hurt me ... maybe all this manipulation stuff is more transference ..... anyway ... does that all sound too crazy??? Or can you relate???

Liese, I can totally relate. And I think most of it is transference stuff- probably. A part of me used to subconsciously hope that my T was manipulating me, because of my past, I assumed that if he cared enough to manipulate me...then he cared. I have gotten to the point now, where I have asked him point-blank, why it feels like he is really mean one session, and really nice the next...and I got an answer that satisfied me, because he was smiling while he said it, and not in the least defensive. For some reason, smiling seems to be really importnat to me in T. If he smiles at me a lot, I feel like, ok, he's safe, he feels happy, he's not threatened by my stuff. Maybe even, he likes me.
I'm glad to hear that your T will not budge- about that he is not acting. It gives you something in the middle of the transference to hold onto, when they won't budge, no matter how much you challenge their position. I for one, find that really imnportant. Everything else feels so slippery and confusing.

You know...I say this with a bit of fear, because I don't like to say anything that might influence you here... but I like the fact that your T is CBT, which is apparently very results oriented...and yet is willing to go into this transference stuff with you. It seems kind of powerful that he is willing to step outside of his normal pattern and give you what you need? That in itself could be tremendously healing...but, I don't know if I'm right or not...so take with a grain of salt.
I think it's good that you have aT who is not "trying" to get at your emotions. It strikes me as very important that you bring your emotions to him as you feel ready to do so, and not because you feel manipulated into doing it agaisnt your will, or when you are not ready. YEt, this may be confusing, in that, maybe in the past, nobody *tried* to help you with your emotions, and so, when he *doesn't* manipulate, that can *feel* bad in itself? though it maybe, just what you need? idk... just a thought....

I also wanted to say, I'm sorry I have not responded so much, I guess at times I'm a bit "shy" with members I haven't known as long...so I can be slow, in learning to post to threads of members that I may not know as well yet...I'm sure you know how that feels! But I'm glad you are here! And hope, to get to know you better!

Blackbird

Other thing I was wondering, is, was he really yelling at you, or did it just feel like he was yelling at you...hm, that is a bit concerning... how did the conversation with this go? Are you good at writing a dialoge? sometimes writing our a dialouge of how the conversation whent can be helpful. If you are comfortable, you can do that here, for feedback...

BB

BB, please don't be shy about responding .... It feels nice to have someone respond to my posts ....

Interesting BB ... what you said about equating feeling cared about with being manipulated ... I will have to think some more about that .....

You are right, I am starting to make the connections anyway .... and I could try to bring it up to him to see how he reacts .... he says he's a here and now guy and that kind of scares me, especially since all this shit is from the past ..... I kind of feel caught in a catch 22 .... don't want to bring it up because I don't want him to be mad at me .... but don't know how to get past it if I don't bring it up .....

About the yelling thing .... I'm not sure if he was actually yelling but his emotional level was high .... I told him I didn't think he cared about me and he said,

"I'm here ... I'm paying attention to you ... I'm not on the computer .... I'm not looking distracted ... I am 100% here with you for 45 minutes .... What more do you want from me? "

And then one time, he told me he left a job because he felt like the doctor was running it like a factory ... and he wasn't giving the appearance that it was a caring place and people were complaining that it was a factory ... and so he told the doctor, people are complaining .... and the doctor was like, tough sh** ... I'm the boss ....So he actually quit the job even though he really liked the job .... So I took it from that story that it's really important to him to come across as caring and genuine ....

So maybe this is mean, but in the "you don't care about me" session, I tell him it feels like a factory ... because he is so booked all the time ... and he does run a tight ship ... you hardly ever have to wait .... and he kind of seems to get really mad and tells me that well, maybe it is a little like a factory and yes, the 3 goes out and the 3:45 comes in ....

And at some point, he tells me how he teaches the graduate students to "act" caring ... put the pen down, look people in the eye ....

And then kind of sarcasticly, he asks me, what, are you still mad that I went to Italy? That was a reference to last year, when he went to Italy ... and this was the only other time I got mad at him .... I had been trying to bring the transference stuff up for months ... and he kept reacting wierd about it ... well, I felt that it was wrong of me to bring it up ... so was it transference on my part? I don't know ... He seems to think it's what I need to work on but we had to get past something that I'm not sure what it was .... so anyway .... finally 3 days before he leaves for Italy (now I won't see him for a month .... and he is totally inaccessible ....and he could have saved the conversation for when he got back from Italy) .... so 3 days before he leaves for Italy he tells me "we are not growing old together" ... and I thought it was so mean ... because I'd been struggling with the transference for months .... and trying to bring it up to no avail .... and feeling ashamed and I knew he knew I was struggling with transference .... so I thought it was really mean that he would say this and then go off to Italy and be completely and totally inaccessible ..... I did call his office while he was gone and several of his coworkers were willing to see me ... but I did not want to see them ....

so during this "you don't care about me conversation" 2 or 3 sessions ago ...., he throws Italy in my face ... and I tell him, no that's not why I don't think you care about me .... and it hurt so much .....

And then I left .... all upset .... and cried ... and then we went to Nova Scotia for my husband's father's funeral ... and i sent him a letter before I left asking him to call me when i got back .... and he never did ... and then he told me he didn't get the letter till my last session with him ....

So all these unanswered questions ... did he really not get the letter? And so, I could never really verbalize why I was so mad at him about the Italy thing because then I'd have to admit to the transference ....

Anyway ... but he is a therapist ... and for the three years I've been there, 99% of the time, he's been incredibly supportive and awesome ..... and he is trying to help me .... He knows my husband and I have problems that we don't talk about ... and I guess he could ask me, why don't you talk to your husband about that? but he probably knows there is a deeper psychological reason we don't talk ...

so anyway ... all these feelings have been coming back since he didn't call me two weeks ago .... about the date rape ... but I realize now that it was not only the date rape .. it was the way my family treated me ... they didn't know about the date rape, so of course, I coped alone .... (hmmmm) .... but my mother and sister were basically spitting at me in my face at the time .... it was horrible horrible horrible ... I was out drinking a lot and hooked up with this guy in a bar .... so my sister was just spitting at me for being out drinking, I guess ..... and my mother accused me of being crazy .... and I was trying to go to college and was probably dissociating a lot ... and couldn't get to class because I'd been drinking .... and when i got there, was soooo behind in my classwork ... the whole year was a big big big mess ... and I did pull myself together eventually, by myself ... no help from anyone .... so ... I'm trying not to dwell on my therapist but just think about why I feel soooo ashamed of myself and I remembered that tonight about how my mother and sister treated me during that time ... not that they knew what happened but just in general, how they treated and I do think I have finally located the source of my pain, BB .... I hope so .... anyway, thanks for listening .... I may try to bring this all up with him on Monday when I see him .....

Liese,

I don't think we've crossed paths yet, so I just want to say hi to start out.

Secondly, I'm so sorry for the pain that you're dealing with, both from the past and the present. And it seems so unfair (yet it is painfully true in so many unfortunate cases) that there are Ts who seem so amazingly unaware of how they are contributing to pain that has already been there for many years.

quote:

"I'm here ... I'm paying attention to you ... I'm not on the computer .... I'm not looking distracted ... I am 100% here with you for 45 minutes .... What more do you want from me? "

Honestly, Liese...this is so incredibly callous and seems to just highlight how unaware he is right now as to what you need and what you are asking for. The way he said this makes it sound like he went through his checklist of what should cover the basis of what being 'caring' is, but he took no time or effort to try and figure out what he can do to at least help you truly know that he is trying to extend his care to you, whether or not you actually feel like you can receive it. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.. There's just so much about this comment that gets to me, and on top of his sarcastic reference to his time away...I really feel for you.

I'm sorry for all of the pain you are in...please keep posting and let us know how you are.

Kashley ... thanks for posting ... it really helps .... It's nice to finally meet you .... I guess I never really introduced myself to everyone and just tried to join in the conversation as if I was already a part of the group ... bad social skills, huh? I've been reading your posts about your T being away for two weeks but didn't want to butt in .... I am glad your T is back .... and i so get the denying your own reality thing .... do it very often myself ... i have very specific memories of my dad telling me that I wasn't feeling what I was feeling or I was making things up so I know exactly where that comes from .... but it must be horrible not to know where it comes from ... for everything to be so vague ....

I agree with you about his tone and his sarcasm and it just doesn't match up with the man I know 99% of all the other times I've seen him ..... in the letter that I wrote to him, I told him that he's asking me to believe he's a caring guy just because he says he's a caring guy .... and I'm just not feeling it .... he read my letter but we didn't really get into that .... God, it's all just so painful .... I don't know if he realizes how he comes across when I've brought up the transference ?? Or if he's really not comfortable dealing with it??? He told me a lot of people leave therapy because it gets too painful ... so is he scaring people away and not realizing it??? I certainly would have talked about it sooner if I didn't feel so attacked the first time .... and the second time .... Is he trying to get me angry? Looking at the way you phrased it, is he trying to piss me off and yell at him that he's treating me like a piece of shit? He knows I never stand up for myself ..... and that my kids are rude to me .... I'm always second guessing his motives ... trying to figure out what he's trying to teach me ... if he wants me to be angry, I will be .... if that's what it takes to heal .... or is it just that I don't feel secure enough to be angry with him???? I do notice that when I do get mad at him, I tend to repair and forgive in my own head ..... like even after that really bad session when he said all those things, I decided it was a brilliant ploy to get me to see this or that ..... and then I adored him all over again for helping me .... until he didn't answer my letter .... and I would up paralyed in bed .... oh i guess i have a lot to talk about with him on monday ..., huh????

And, then I ask myself, is it really important what happens between he and I???? Or is it more important that I truly believe I put my finger on my pain tonight? It just kept nagging at me ... why do I feel this overwhelming sense of shame ??? Why do I think I'm worth less than other people?? WhY???? Why????? Yeah, the rape was painful .... and yes, I cried for a year when it happened but it just wasn't making any sense until I remembered how my own mother and my own sister treated me during that time .... wow ... that was soooo painful .... my own family, kicking me around ..... like a piece of shit .....

But I guess, therapy is supposed to be a safe place .... and If I can challenge him, maybe I'll be able to challenge my husband???? So maybe it is important that I call him on the way he treated me???? It's all so scary, Kashley ... as I am sure you know ..... and Thanks again .... it's so nice to finally meet you ....

Sorry if I never properly introduced myself to everyone ... I was just in such pain and was hoping for an immediate connection .... Certainly not the way to go about things ....

Liese, try not to worry about whether or not you introduced yourself. You've already contributed a lot to so many in the short time you've been here...that seems like a pretty great and giving way to introduce yourself.

Do you happen to know if your T has ever done therapy of his own?

Hi Kashley ... Thanks for replying .... I've wondered the same thing myself and thought about asking him .... I know he has supervised therapists .... so .... we shall see ....

Been in an awful state all day .... maybe on Monday I just have to confront him about how callous and insensitive he's being ..... if I don't get a satisfactory answer, I may have to leave him ... he's certainly not even trying to show me he cares, not one iota, not with one ounce of his behavior .... i actually feel like he even holds me in contempt .... mocking me about the italy thing .... and his snotty remark about, what do you want me to hold your hand and give you a hug? I don't do that ....

I'll just be peaceful, speak my mind .... and ask him why should I trust him with details of my trauma .... why???

Sorry I can't be too supportive of others right now ... It's been a bad day ....

Liese let me first say that if you are in a difficult place there is no need to worry about supporting others on here. You have already shown yourself to be caring and helpful and maybe you are the one who needs the support right now. We all have times where we need to take and other times we are able to give back. It all works out in the end.

I do want to say I'm sorry you are having a bad day and I know that awful place that you are in as I've been there too... many times. Your T reminds me a little bit of my oldT in that he is inconsistent and gets easily defensive, although my T was never harsh in session like yours is described ... well until the very end. Even when I accused him of being defensive at times he would only say that if that is what I saw in him he believes me and he needs to take a good look at himself and how he is behaving/feeling. Then he would thank me for bringing it to his attention.

But it's the way your T has handled the concerns you have relating to transference that is a bit red-flaggish to me. The fact that he left for a month vacation and you had no contact with him is a huge thing. As you may have noticed reading the threads on here... our T's vacations are very difficult for us and we struggle with their absence and feeling abandoned and alone. The biggest disruptions with my oldT came from his going on vacation and being unable to accept my feelings and fears about him leaving me. Your T should have reassured you and helped you to talk about your fears without making you feel guilty and ashamed... he is doing to you what your parents/family did... he is reenacting what you went through with them.

Transference is just a word for feelings and counter-transference is the therapists feelings about the patient's transference towards the T. As a CBT T he does know about transference but obviously seems uncomfortable with it. I remember hearing John Briere (a traumatologist and renowned psychotherapist) talk about CBT and transference....he said a CBT T told him "I don't DO transference" and Briere was amused and said "how do you stop it from happening?" and the CBT T told him "I just don't ALLOW my clients to have transference". Briere said this is ridiculous you just cannot order a patient not to have feelings toward their therapist. Obviously he is not a fan of CBT

I guess what I'm saying is that your T may say he knows about it and understands it but he may not be comfortable with it or want to deal with it in session. Instead of talking to him about transference why don't you put it in terms of attachment theory? My T became much more comfortable of thinking of it in those terms... attachment. Google John Bowlby who is the father of attachment theory and worked with Mary Ainsworth and Mary Main. It will give you a good enough handle on attachment so you can bring this up in session. But, don't be surprised if he knows nothing about it... many Ts don't which is a shame. But I think his willingness to learn about it or discuss it with you will give you a clue as to whether or not you should stay with him going forward.

Liese, I know I KNOW how hard it is to leave a T that we are attached to and how agonizing it is when they hurt us with their uncaring ways but I don't want to see you come to an end the way I did. So proceed cautiously with this T and keep coming here to talk to us.

I hope you feel better today. One step at a time, one day at a time...

Hugs
TN

TN ... thank you thank you thank you for your soothing words ... they help a lot ...I've been thinking of you and knowing you are struggling too but I've been swallowed up in my own pain .... That was some story you told about the CBT ... well, that T sounded like an ass .... I agree, how can you prevent it from happening? I did probe my T some last time about it all and he does think it's all very important stuff to deal with ... so I don't think he doesn't want to deal with it ... He does ... but maybe it's just his initial approach ...just even to get me to see what's going on .... maybe they have to burst that bubble of my feeling or wanting to be cared about by him before we could get to my abandonment issues ... and then I have to weave through the transference stuff so I can learn how to really depend on him in a healthy way? does that make sense? knowing how to get close ... because I've been kind of wrapped in a bubble for 3 years, wanting to be cared about by him ... kind of in a fatherly kind of way ... but we never talked about it ....


I feel like I'm walking in a sea of broken glass and my T is trying to tell me there is a way out but he's not really helping me get there because every way I turn is more glass ... maybe there is less glass in front of me ... but I can't see it ... I have to FEEL my way out ... and right now ... every turn hurts ... to run hurts ... to stay hurts ....

I know this might sound crazy ... what I'm about to say ... considering I've been with him for 3 years ... but we haven't really talked too much about my abandonment or attachment issues yet .... I did tell him he was my wire monkey and I'm guessing he knows all about John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth .... because I do .... and he told me it was okay that he was my wire monkey (well, actually I guess my real mother was my wire monkey, from the looks of it!) ...

Anyway ... I do think that that's where we are headed now ... talking about my abandonment issues .... He hasn't rushed me ... I've been there for three years ....(that's a long time, right? Do you think he's been patient with me in that regard?) I think the whole Italy thing was his first attempt to get me to talk about it ... but it failed and I reacted miserably ..... I would have been okay with his trip if we hadn't had the conversation we had before he left about he and I not growing old together ... but I thought it was sooo mean that he would say that and then go .... afterwards, he said that I could have called the office after I left him and before he left for Italy (it was like a 3 day window) ... but I got caught up in a crisis my daughter was having in school ...

and honestly, I'm not that good at processing my stuff .... I didn't really realize how much it affected me until I woke up in the middle of the night with terrible anxiety about it all ..... I guess I react on a very emotionally suppressed level .... I don't know why that is ..... just the family history of suppression and denial ... i guess ..

Anyway ... so of course, I don't want to attack him personally because then he won't want to work with me ... but I do need to bring it all to his attention ..... I was thinking of just being honest about how i felt attacked and that I thought his comments were snotty and glib ...(should I avoid the snotty and glib characterization?) . .. When he got my letter, he pointed out two parts of it that he felt were me taking stabs at him - one he said, oh here you were trying to be cute ...but he said it with a snotty tone - .... but we didn't really get to talk about it so much because we had so many other things to talk about .... so it can't be wrong for me to bring it up to him that I felt contempt from him ..... right? And hopefully he'll be honest and genuine ...

I guess I've been kicked so much that it's hard to distinguish my own pain from that caused by other people ... maybe that's what he's trying to help me do .... .... i told him last time I saw him that he is the person i rely on for support right now .... and i certainly can't talk to my husband about the transference stuff ... so really, I am alone in all this ... and he and I are on a journey together .... but if I feel hurt by the person I am turning to for support, where do I go then??? When there is no one else???

I also did ask him ... because I assume he knows that I can't distinguish different types of pain ... if he would just be honest with me and tell me if he really didn't want to work with me .... and he said that yes, if he didn't want to work with me, he would be very direct ... but he does think he can help me ..and he does think he has more to offer me ... and we can still work together ...

You are so knowledgeable about your issues .... and I haven't gotten that far with my issues yet ... even though I've seen him for 3 years .... I think it's just been mainly supportive because my husband has his own business and our financial situation is always very topsy turvy ... and with 4 kids and my dysfunctional primary family, you can imagine that there is always some issue to be discussed .... so we haven't really gotten to the difficult emotional stuff yet ....

He did say in our last session that the first step is just bringing it to awareness ....

It just seems, TN, that it would be so much less painful to trust him than not to .... mistrust is sooooooo painful!

hmmm. really afraid to post much about your siutation, because I'm afriad to say the wrong thing, or influence you. So I will just tell you what is going through my mind. First of all, I'm thinking about the idea, that you have to find out for sure whether you are thinking he is being snotty and glib when really maybe he isn't. He seems to be kind of snotty and glib, but, it *could* just be he has a weird sense of humour or whatever. With my T , I always thought he was being snotty and glib a and really, really mean to me. But I never trusted my perceptions on this...not ever. And I had *enough* good times, really good connected caring responses from my T, to suspect that I was reading too much into what he said or did that sounded or felt so cruel. All in all, more good and caring responses than bad, helped me to stick it out during the times when I was feeling this perceived meanness. I felt horribly judged by my T for a really long time, like he was just thinking that I was about this for all the wrong reasons, and that he was kind of sneering at me or disgusted with me for trying to get closer. Like he was trying to shove me off. I kept writing him long, detailed emails about the agony he was casuing me. He stuck with me through all of this, even though I was brutally honest with him about everything, and a lot of it wasn't that complimentary. (Although my intention was never to insult or hurt him, still, brutal honesty usually comes across that way anyway, which was really agaonizing as well, but I knew I had to say what was on my mind.) Suddenly, one day- something changed. I don't know what happened, but my T made some comment after an email about not seeing something before that he now sees, and ever since he has been the kindest therapist, and I feel safe, no longer judged so harshly. He even suddenly told me that he can see that I will need a longer course of therapy than he had originally thought, and that he hadn't seen before some things, but got supervision and cleared it up. It's been a lot better ever since, and let me tell you, I am sure curious about why/what changed...

In my case, I think a lot of my thinking was getting in the way of him being able to see how hurt I was, something like that. I was always analyzing everything to death. I have a *lot* more success in T, when I let myself talk about my feelings rather than what I *think.* I will judge myself and my motives very harshley when I think, and T would tend to believe me, and be like, so why are still here, and stuff like that- I think, because everything I said made so much sense.

Another thing that is huge, is my T can apologize when I told him something he said hurt me. He will actually apologize and explain what happened. that helps a lot.
gosh, I'm just throwing this stuff out so maybe you can make some comparisons...your situation is so different from mine...it is so hard to discern what is right for you in the middle of transference...comparisons can maybe help. I have got to the point where I trust my T, now, pretty much. But it was a long and painful road... I think the main thing is, does your T think he is God, or is he willing to humbly admit to a mistake, and change tack in order to help you?

I think understanding and knowledge is helpful, but I also am a bit wary of learning too much (this is just me) because I'm afriad it will get in the way of my healing, potentially. So I haven't read much about all this attachment or theory, well, just for me, I think too much as it is, and want to let my T do his thing. (Now that I trust him) I have done some reading on the web about spychology topics, espcially before I started trusting my T more....I couldn't stop reading and researching, mainly because I didn't have the trust yet, and was trying to get information to help figure out, can I trust him? So I think learning can be a great tool for you to find out, is this T what you need?

I'm sorry the journey is so painful and confusing. Many comforting hugs for you...and do not worry about your introduction...you seemed to make a very appropriate entry to this forum, from my perspective. There is a bit of learning curve when we first jump in here, and you are doing just great!

BB

BB, thanks for writing ... and please don't ever hesitate to post ... I certainly appreciate hearing other peoples take on things .... Honestly, I find everyone so helpful and supportive.... I can't even imagine being upset at something anyone posted unless you or they told me I was a big jerk! It's harder on me actually when people don't reply ... I think, am I a loon? I must sound so awful if no one is replying! (More transference?)

He definitely tells me I think too much ....I keep trying to figure out his angle ...and outthink him .... He's really smart and much smarter than me so it would nearly be impossible to outsmart him ..(like the beginning chess player trying to outsmart the chessmaster!) ... and I agree with you about the research ... I have researched obsessively, like you, which is how I found this website .... but I also think that at some point I have to let it go .... and trust him .... I recently went for a consultation with another psychologist and I was going to go for another consultation when I realized actually that the person I should be talking to is him .... so I didn't go for the 2nd ccnsultation .... I also realized during the 1st consultation that I had reached a level of intimacy (even if it's shallow) with my current T that I wasn't appreciating ....

He seemed to have wanted to bring up the transference stuff so that we could actually work on it ... maybe he didn't do it in the smoothest manner but he has mentioned that it is getting in the way (me not feeling cared about) of the actual work that we have to do ... which might be dealing with the trauma ... he didn't say what .... and I didn't ask ....

So do you think then that I should ask him about his tone? Or just tell him that I didn't know how to take it?

you are certainly not a loon, if nobody replied. Sometimes people just feel shy, or can't think of anything constructive to offer, or aren't responding to other threads either...there's a lot of reasons, so put your little head to rest on that one!

I think what TN says makes a lot of sense. I'm just throwing my own angle on it, wondering if you have resolved the possibility that it might be a misunderstanding. Has he ever expressed, that you need to feel closeness and cared about by him? Have you asked him about the things that hurt you? (I know it is reaaaaallly hard to do that, but I think it's the only way you can know for sure, is by asking) But Idk...some of those comments sound really snarky and stuff, all by themselves...but somethings sound good, too, so it's just confusing, from my angle. I like what TN says. Gosh. Don't take anything I say too seriously because I'm not there, in it, so I can't really see what's going on, but keep asking for clarification, unless you have decided to leave him. That's the best advice I could give. "How did you mean that?" "That sounded like you are mad at me- are you?" "Are you judging me as being cutesy or inauthentic ?" Questions like that are good to ask in therapy, in the here and now, or to resolve past issues that have come up and are still bothering you...I hope so much some of this helps. If it's too scary to ask, you could write it down on a slip of paper, and ask him to turn his back and read the question. I've heard that can work sometimes. You have nothing to lose...and you might get a lot of new valuable information that will tell you definitively, that he is harming you and your should definitely leave. Or, you may end up finding out what you are hoping, that he doesn't judge you harshly and is just being an ass. I think you have to ask what you are wondering.

Gosh, I hope this helps a little bit... many safe hugs, Liese...keep posting!

BB

Thanks BB .... I really appreciate what you have to say ... and will think about everything carefully before proceeding ... not to worry about influencing me ....

Can you tell me what it is exactly that concerns you?

The thing about the Italy trip was that I hadn't expressed to him that i would be worried about surviving without him while he was gone .... I was actually telling him I would be fine .... and could handle the time ... so I'm not sure if he should have made arrangements for me .... I think he was trying to bring the issue to my attention but I refused to go there .....

I'm just wondering if y'all have asked your T's if they care about you and what they say? Don't I need to feel that he cares? How can I be expected to open up?

of course, I know it can't be at one extreme where I feel like he wants to marry me ... but on the other hand, I don't want to be like a rock on the street to him either ..... Isn't it reasonable to want him to care about me?

It is very reasonable to want him to care about you...I have spent the last year and a half insisting that my therapist doesn't care about me, with him constantly insisting that he does! Of course, it has to be caring within the bounds of the therapy relationship, but it is still caring and my T has said that I can't get anywhere and he will not be able to help me with my issues until I can fully accept that he cares about me. I'm sorry, I guess I don't really understand, I thought that your T was saying that he cares, and that you need to come to beleive in that? Or is he saying the opposite? I guess I had better go back and read your thread a bit more carefully, I think I'm misunderstanding something...

BB

sorry, I've been a bit mixed up Liese- I need to read your thread more carefully before I say anything else. I'm so sorry about that, it will take me a bit of time, but I'll try to come back soon!

Peace,

BB

BB ... I'll save you the time ... basically I told him that he didn't care about me and that even if he said he did, I wouldn't believe him .... and he said, well, I'm here, I'm paying attention to you, I'm engaged, I'm not looking at my computer, I'm not taking notes, what do you want from me? And I guess I didn't answer right away, and he said, "what are you still mad about Italy?" (I thought kind of snottily, transference? maybe not?) And I said, no, that I felt disconnected, that each session is like a blank slate and he doesn't ask me how something turned out, and he said well I'm a here and now kind of guy .... and then he went on and on and told me how he teaches his graduate students to be caring, to make eye contact, etc. and so now I am hearing how he acts caring ... and so then i say, well, it feels a little like a factory ... and he says, well it is a little like a factory, the 3 goes out and the 3:45 comes in ... but he seemed a little mad .... and i know from a story he told me in the past (he may have forgotten that he told me) that he quit a job because it felt like a factory and the doctor who was running the clinic wouldn't listen to him about people complaining it felt like a factory ... so this statement was on my part a jab at him because I was sooo frustrated that he wasnt' helping me with this issue, I just felt ashamed that I want him to care about me ....

And then, in the next session, I told him that I think I need to come in every week now because I haven't been functioning well, and the first thing he said was, well, you always have to ask first before you assume I'm too busy to see you ... and second, I think you just want to come in weekly to get close to me .... At some point, and he also asked me, do you want me to hold your hand and hug you? because I don't do that .... and I said, no, that I didn't want that ... I just feel like he's cornered me and I can't get out .... I don't know how to get out .... and he's not helping me resolve the transference issues by being so bossy ..... (The truth is that I was afraid to ask him to come in weekly ... and so I finally got my courage up to ask him ... and the first part of his answer was nice but the second part a little off-putting ...)

He asked me point blank if I felt transference towards him ... and I said yes, but that I was managing it on my own .... .... He really just simply said, in reponse to my answer that it was something I was going to have to work through ....He seemed a little nicer once I admitted the transference and said that now we have to begin working on that ... and did I have any questions ... and next time, come in with lots of questions ....and that he was going to start pulling together everything he knows about me, my problems with my husband, etc .... and it was all going to start to make sense .....

Maybe someone else would have been able to handle it ... but I'm really sensitive ... and if I'm going to be doing this trauma work with him, how do I know if he is going to be gentle with my feelings ....???

during the 2nd to last session, I felt as though he was yelling at me, and I started to shake and almost cry and I said, please stop yelling at me ... and he stopped himself and said, hmmmm, maybe you are feeling my frustration ... and then he really brought it down emotionally and then I could handle it .... the last session, he told me that he heard me about me needing him to listen to me and to bring it down emotionally .... and he did and it was much better ...

He said we could work together as long as we could talk about it ... I never felt like I couldn't talk about it ... I felt like he was the one having the problem talking about it .... You know, he is kind of cute .... and maybe he's had a problem with women developing huge crushes on him .... and so maybe he's learned to handle it by being really blunt like that .... who knows????

Oftentimes, when he asks me questions, I tell him "I don't know" .... and he has let it go for 3 years ... Lately, he's been saying, it might be important ... you need to think about it ....

I do remember that I had this mean best friend as a child .... and my Mom never bought good snacks, always healthy snacks .... and her Mom had Yodels (do you have them where you live?) and she would ask me, do you want a yodel or an apple? well, of course, I wanted the yodel .. but i kept saying, i don't care ... i don't care ... and she got really mad at me, handed me the apple and walked away .... I wonder if I just keep repeating this pattern as a form of power .... I told my last T this story and I think she thought I would say I don't care because I was being a pleaser, as I had been taught ....but I'm wondering if I got a little bit of enjoyment over frustrating my mean best friend .... it's hard to remember back that far ....

My other thought had to do with the year of the date/rape thingy .... I had been going to see a counselor at the college I was going to ... we spent the first half of the year going over my childhood, making connections, etc .... and then I stopped seeing him ... i was really kinda suicidal ... i wouldn't have killed myself ... just was hoping for a bus to come by and take care of it for me .... I got involved with this guy somewhere in that time ... so eventually, I went back to that therapist but this time I couldn't talk to him ... he kept asking me questions, and I would just tell him I didn't know ... for a whole hour ... I felt that he was sooo frustrated with me ...and he was going to reject me ... but I was soo traumatized, I guess, and so the year ended and I never saw him again ... but I'm wondering if that's why I'm doing what I'm doing now with my current T ... I just feel like I can't always make the connections he asks me to ... and I get intimidated in there .... when he asks me questions .... I'm not always sure of the answer ... I might answer one thing, and he seems to be looking for something else and I feel like there is a right answer that he is looking for and I'm afraid to give him the wrong answer, that he'll think I'm stupid ....

Hi Liese... gee I don't know what's going on in your sessions....I'm not there but I just want to say that there are no right or wrong answers in therapy. It's more about your feelings and why you feel them and connecting them back to the past and then learning about them. For people with trauma backgrounds the most important thing to do is to first establish trust and safey within the relationship or nothing else will get accomplished.

It sounds to me like you are still in this first stage with your T. You are still not feeling comfortable enough to trust him with your deepest feelings and you don't feel safe enough with him and this is because he is giving you responses that are making you skittish about him. You need reassurance from him and it seems that he is not up for it. He is also inconsistent in his attitude and demeanor which is not helping to establish him as steady and solid which is what you need to feel from him.

You are not stupid at all you are just trying to learn and he is the one in the position of authority and he should be making you feel comfortable not anxious. This is why you say I don't know. I think you do know in most cases but you are feeling too intimidated by him to tell him what it is that you really think.

Of course you are the only other one in the room and you have to decide if what you are getting from him and from the sessions are what you need to heal. I don't know if he is good in other ways for you and if you feel that you have made progress over the years but he should never say he's frustrated with you... that is actually self-disclosure and is only serving to make you feel worse.

I'm not sure if I have made you feel worse too and if so I'm sorry. I really do just want to help you and I don't want to see anyone get hurt by an insensitive T. You need a kind and gentle T to help you reach inside to those really hurt places and feel safe enough to be vulnerable with them. I truly hope your T comes through for you because I know he means a lot to you.

Hugs
TN

You didn't need to rewrite all that, for me, Liese, I'm sorry- but maybe, I hope it was helpful for you. I ad read all those things, but I am still a bit confused. I think TN is on the right track, you need a kind and gentle, caring T. I guess my only concern, was I was wondering if the same thing was happening to you that had happened to me with my T, where I was so confused I as literally ready to die with connfusin and pain, because I was expereincing everything you are in T with your T, and all the same reactions and feelings to stuff he would say. But I now am certain that my T cares...is not perfect, does not alwyas do everything perfectly or react exactly how I need him to, but, that he cares and is there for me. I guess that's the only thing. When I told my T that when he yawned right when I was revealing something very difficult, once, and how badly that shook me up, he was defensive and said he was "just stretching some facial muscles." He said "I'm here, I'm listening," and his tone was kind of like "waht more do you want." I was devastated. Leter I wrote him an email about how it affected me, and how it made me feel so wrong about my reaction, after he was defensive about it. He wrote back a lovely apology, and was so kind and gentle and told me that if he had really been bored, it "would have been unforgivable, but he wasn't" And a lot of other really nice things. So I guess I still remember that, because it helped me start to trust him more after that. I'm just wondering if these are ruptures or things that impossible to get past with your T. I like what the others have said, Kashley, TN, and the others who have replied. But I just remember...my T really seemed like Dr. Jeykll and Mr. Hide to me for the longest time and it was hell. And I know others have gone through a similar period with their T's. But things have changed, and I am beginning to truly trust him, thank goodness, because I think I would have died after awhile, I was just sick all the time. I guess I am just hurting for you- hoping against hope there is a way, maybe it's all a big misunderstnading that you can clear up- that's all. But I certainly don't want to encourage you to keep trying to make it work, if it just simply isn't. I guess my thinking is a little cloudy on this. Take whatever I said with an entire shaker of salt. I think *if* you decide to take more sessions with this man, then you absolutely must discuss all of this, your ambivalent feelings about your him...with him, honestly. Tell him how you think he's great and wonderful sometimes, and others you can't trust your judgement, and you doubt him on this or that. Tell him all of your feelings about it, all of these things you wrote here that hurt you so- and if he reacts dismissively, laughs at you, or is very defensive, then run for the hills, if you can find the strength inside, and find a better T. It does seem like you've been trying with him for a long time, and if he's hurting more than helping...well...T is supposed to be a place where you can gradually feel safer and safer, and closer, I think...not opposite. TN also posted an interesting thread about bringing in a consulting T to help repair the relationship...that might be an option? idk.

Many hugs,

BB

Oh gosh, TN and BB ... you are both so wise .... and your responses were measured and incredibly thoughtful ... I tend to ignore my negative feelings and just float on the fact that I do think he is a wonderful T ... I only seem to process the positive information .... I do see that this is an issue he and I have to discuss before going any further .... Thanks for giving me the strength to explore the negative feelings and the courage to talk to him about it on Monday .... It really helped a lot .... Hope you both can find some peace .... I might not be too supportive of anyone else over the weekend as I do not have any extra strength but you will all be in my thoughts .... (Or there is a possibility that I'll feel better tomorrow and may be flitting around here and there ... I guess one never really knows.) I just feel so heavy right now ... like I can't move .....

just take care of yourself, right now. When we hit that point, in can be impossible to even reach out for help, let alone trying to support others. Don't worry. When I get like that I sometimes can't even post, so good for you, for being able to at least let us know how you are doing...hang in there, and good luck on Monday. Just be as open and honest as you can, and try to keep your ears on how he responds to that. Lots of hot drinks, tea and cocoa to soothe you, until then, ok?

Love,

BB

Hello Liese I haven’t been around to welcome you and now you’re an old hand here lol but just wanted to post to say hello, and that I really appreciate reading what you post. You sound pretty together and aware of things.

I’m so sorry you’re so weighed down - I guess this weekend you didn’t feel much better and maybe you’re worrying about what to say to T in next session - from what you’ve described it doesn’t sound like he’s the easiest person to talk to about these things. Personally I have little faith that CBT style therapists are able to deal effectively with deeper emotional issues, but it sounds like your guy has more understanding than most. I really hope you can talk to him about these issues and that he will respond in a healing way. Fingers crossed.

Let us know how it goes?

Sending you lots of good wishes

LL

Lamplighter, It's nice to meet you ... and thank you for the kind words and vote of confidence .... I guess I was thinking also that he didn't want to handle the deeper emotional issues ... but maybe I should just ask him point blank .... in addition to all the other stuff I want to ask him ...

I almost ran away from home this weekend ... Had this strong impulse to check into a hotel .... OMG am I going to be the runaway bride???? the runaway mother???? what is happening to me??? I kept asking myself, isn't there a more mature way to handle this?

As you can all see, I've been posting a little more today .... I'm feeling a little better today ... Is it because I see T tomorrow? Is it because my husband and son have been out fishing all day? And my other daughter at the park with friends? And I actually have a little peace in the house? And no pressure???

Hi Liese... just checking in to see how your session went today. I guess we both have Monday's for now. I have next Monday too.

Did you ever get to talk about the things you had on your mind? Was your T more empathic and attuned to you today?

Just thinking of you.
TN

TN ... Thanks for asking ... that was so nice .... You go to your new T on Mondays now too? Please tell me how it went today .... We can chat about it on Monday nights ....

Today went well overall... I brought up how he reacted 2 years ago to the transference stuff ... how put off and stuffed I felt and I told him that's why I haven't talked about it since .... He did go on a little about how some people ... and not you, he said, want to stay in the past (I guess this is something that bothers him) ..and then he basically said that it is his belief that we don't necessarily have to know where the memories are coming from in order to heal ... ..

.. then he was a little bit of an ass about something that i will bring up with him next week ..... But he never raised his voice with me like he has in the past and it really made a huge different with how I received him ... I didn't feel as threatened ....

but then all of a sudden he changed gears and said ..."at the end of the day, this needs to be a safe place for you ... You need to be able to bring anything up and not worry about being judged ..... " I talked to him at length about the letter I mailed to him .... and told him that a memory came through the day I was expecting him to call ... I talked briefly about how my mother and sister treated me back then .... and he talked about how they were the people I was supposed to be relying on .... the people I should have been able to go for support ....

When I first went to him 3 years ago, I told him that the T I left told me that my problems are stemming from the rape .... and I rolled my eyes, like "how ridiculous" ..(because I honestly thought I dealt with it).. and he rolled his eyes with me .... and I've never mentioned it again .... although I did describe in great detail 3 years ago what a difficult time I had in my late teens, early twentites but we never talked about "it" ... anyway ... he was, except for the one little incident, incredibly compassionate and kind ... and did tell me he cared about me .... and I actually felt it ... which was such a beautiful thing .... he talked some about trust .... and I wasn't so scared anymore .... He told me not to rush anything .... I don't really know anything about trust building but maybe it takes time .... He doesn't mention that he remembers the rape ... I think he's waiting until I'm ready ... which I think is really nice .... And then I asked him if he could see me next week because two weeks is just too long for me .... and he said, let's go look at my book and I have an appointment for next Monday ....

And I'm thinking today, "wow, so that's the power of good therapy!" ....

Hi Liese... if you look on this forum here there is a thread Monday with NewT and that talks about today's session with my newT.

I'm glad that your session overall went well for you. Especially that your T used a better tone and that he told you he cared about you. Yes, trust does take time and establishing safety is so important to doing any trauma processing. NewT told me that after 2 years he feels he is just getting to know someone... and I would agree with that because at the 2 year mark with oldT I felt that we really started to make a lot of progress because he DID know me very well and I really began to trust him (bad move on that one).

Your T may be waiting for you to bring up the rape again and it has been a long while. You will do it when it feels right and it's better not to rush it. I think STRM's T says "the slower you go the faster you will get there" and I think this makes a lot of sense in trauma therapy especially.

It sounds like you and T were basically attuned today and he was willing to "hear" you. The only thing that concerns me is his statement about people wanting to stay in the past. We don't want to stay there but we have to understand and process our past if we want to move forward in our life. We cannot bury the past without looking at it and mourning it. It will just come back and bite us.

I see that we both have Monday appointments again next week! I'm glad to hear that you asked for one. Hang in there.

TN

Hi TN ... I will go read your new thread as soon as I reply .... I did ask him about the past thing ... I told him I don't want to stay in the past but I don't know how to get out and I told him that he's not giving me enough guidance ..... I likened it to him making me jump through hoops when I have asthma ..... and I brought up the sea of glass analogy ....

I don't know if he just says that s**t about people wanting to stay in the past ... because last session he told me the first step is to bring it all to awareness, how the past is controlling the present ... he's sooo schizophrenic on the topic .....

I was actually thinking that ... part of my problem is that I look for approval always from all the wrong people ... and when he barked at me 3 or 4 times 2 years ago about the transference stuff ... I decided not to talk about it anymore .... so maybe that was his ploy ..... not that I can't bring it up with me ... maybe he doesn't want me to get hurt out there in the real world and was using some behavior conditioning stuff .....

I did tell him today that I forgave him so easily 3 sessions ago now? because I decided he used some brilliant ploy to get me to develop a sense of self .... and he told me he doesn't use brilliant ploys and I'm reading too much into things .... I guess I always feel manipulated .... but I do have to think with enmeshment, there has to be a way to develop that sense of self that never developed when I was a kid ....???? any takers out there???