Hi Incognito,

It's so hard waiting and wondering about a response. I went through that last week, but I guess my P just thought it could wait until he saw me again.

I'm sending good thoughts that he will be there waiting for you tonight and willing to answer all your questions.



Summer

He will be there and you will find that there is a simple, yet logical answer for his nonresponsiveness. Try to remain calm...I have where you are and and I know that pain.Most likely...It will be just fine. Thinking of you and looking back at me. Oh how we worry. It is hard to just "let it be" as my T says. Impossible sometimes.

Hi incognito... something similar happened to me once where I was so worried something happened to my T and it just made me realize how much I cared for him and about him and I could no longer avoid this realization. I stopped resisting the attachment and began to trust things a little more. In the end it turned out to be a positive thing for me because I could no longer avoid the feelings I had for him.

I am thinking good thoughts. You will find T there and it will be fine.

Let us know what happens.

Hugs
TN

((((COGS))))

Let us know what happened.

Liese

Hey Cogs.

I get your worry. Hope it works out and it is just a minor blip.

SD

My T is fine. When I got there he had my email and his response printed out. We had just talked about reading emails aloud at the beginning of the session so he was ready. I said so you did get my email. He said I responded to it yesterday morning and then this afternoon after you left the message. I said I never got either of those emails and I was worried something had happened to you or you had decided to stop responding to me. Of course by then I was laughing at the irony of me sending him an email saying I want to talk about the email you didn't respond to and me not getting his reply. He said so we have another email interaction to discuss.

It was a difficult session where we talked about touch and his concerns about touch and how it can be misinterpreted when used with survivors of abuse. I hadn't planned to discuss it but he asked me how I felt because I told him that consult T had stroked my legs (briefly) when trying to ground me. I told him that it was unfair to avoid touching abuse survivors when he was comfortable touching other clients because it was like blaming them for what was done to them. I also told him that it made me feel like a leper which was how I felt in the past before we started shaking hands. So I guess I can forget any dream of him holding my hand or touching my shoulder or some other kind of contact. I cried a lot even though I'm not sure I want him to touch me. It sucks to be branded untouchable.

((incognito))

I'm glad to know your T is safe. I'm sorry you missed the emails he sent you.

I often feel exactly how you are describing, sort of like abuse survivors are being 'punished' or 'blamed' in some way. It's unfortunate, but needed that everyone err on the side of caution and like I said... I think it really sucks. There can be lots of healing in both - I remember when T1 told me that her touch was never sexual I was like....... yea I gathered. But she still had to say it. Did he say you guys could never touch? It sounds like you are shaking hands and weren't before. Did you ask specifically for more touch in your therapy or tell him you were also ambiguous about it? Sometimes I find touch the weirdest thing to talk directly about - but I've learned to just ask and have found that less stressful somehow than not.

I'm really sorry again about the email snafu! Yikes! I've been worried about my Ts like that before too.

Thanks everyone for your support. I'm typing on my phone so I'm not going to reply individually.

I'm feeling okay considering how many different things happened. I wrote about my worry about my T and our discussion about touch. I didn't tell him specifically that I wanted more touch. I actually said I am not asking for anything now but that is because I'm too chicken to be honest and risk rejection. I just don't think I'll ever be able to say it now that I know how he feels.

The conversation about touch started because I told my T I thought there was something in me that made me hypersensitive to normal disappointments in relationships. I think it would happen with any T I worked with and I would hit the same wall. My T challenged me and that yes disappointments would happen in every relationship but maybe a different therapist with a different manner would be able to reassure me easier. I told him it felt like he was telling me to find a new T. He said no but he was trying to explore the possibilty with me

Almost immediately after that session I got a call from the consult T Ironically I had called her to discuss my feeling that I would hit the same wall with any T and for the first time she didn't call me for over a week. When she called me we didn't make an appointment. Instead we spoke for over 25 minutes. She told me she thought that even though my T wAs a good T and he cared about me and was trying to work with me she thought he was missing something and it was time I recognized that and found a new T. I was surprised because up until now when I said I thought it wasn't working with my T she encouraged me to go back and try to talk about how I felt. She thinks I am letting a child part of me make the decision to stay with my T and she thinks my T doesn't recognize the child part of me.

It was a really weird conversation. I'm not used to talking about my child parts or in having a T tell me what to do. It has been weird week. I'm heading away for the weekend which means no Internet for a couple of days. Have a good weekend

Wow, Cogs, what an interesting insight consult T had. That sounds worth following up on. Will you be making an appointment with her in the future?

Do you plan on telling T what consult T said? Maybe just watering it down a little?

Hope you have a really nice weekend and you are able to forget about therapy for at least a little while.



Liese

Liese

It is odd because I don't think I can even see consult T now unless I quit my T. I got the feeling that she wanted to talk on the phone and not make an appointment. I also felt like I can't go back and talk to her about my T without her saying you should quit it isn't working.

I hope at some point I can tell my T what consult T said. I had a good weekend but my session this afternoon didn't go very well.

thanks for the hugs

Hi COGS,

Just checking in to see how things are going. Hope okay.

Incognito,

Im sorry youve been having such a hard time. And i would also feel pushed away, even devastated, if my therapist suggested i might be better off with someone else. you are in a tough position, and i really feel for you.

i was also thinking-you know, sometimes people part amicably in therapy. even in marriage. where no one is at fault, but people just come to terms that theyd be better off under different circumstances. and there is no resentment, no blame. heartache, yes, inevitably. but even true love can be a matter of setting someone free, so to speak.

ideal matches are hard to find. my therapist had 2 different analysts over the course of his therapy. its true the same issues come up no matter who it is, but my therapist grew with each one. in different ways. the dynamics of a dyad can be so different, leading to different outcomes.

youve been so tenacious and strong despite your obstacles and adversity you face weekly.

not sure if this was of any help to you, but i hope things work out for the best.

Hi Liese and xoxo,

I'm doing okay today but I had one of those events that hijacked me so I don't have the energy to think about T's. My daughter graduated from elementary school this week and was the valedictorian of her class. I dressed for the graduation carefully because last month my daughter was quite mean to me when she didn't like my appearance. This my daughter said nothing but my mother was another story. She waited until we sat down in the room with all the other parents to say "did you gain a lot of weight recently or did you gain it awhile ago and I'm just noticing know". I said no I wore this dress last summer to the wedding. She said "oh I guess I didn't realize how big you were until I saw you in a dress". She got off a couple more zingers about my weight, how she doesn't comment on it (which she does every couple of months), and how I'm not doing a good enough job running my household and am spending too much time volunteering at the kids school and activities. I didn't say much at the time and I'm not sure it sounds bad but my mother is the most critical person I can think of and I have trouble remembering anytime she was happy or supportive of me. Even though I know this is typical for her it still hurts so much.

I emailed T about it the night it happened and he responded supportively the next day in an email. Afterwards I got more and more angry. I can't even describe the feelings of rage I experienced: my neck, back and jaw ached; I cried off and on for hours; my head felt heavy. I'm exhausted from it. I called my T to talk to him and he called me back. I didn't feel instantly better but he understands me and really validates how I experience my parents. He asked me to try and stay angry at my mother instead of turning the anger on myself and I had to admit that I was already doing that. The night it happened I couldn't stop eating. I binged until I felt sick. The next day every time I tried to eat I was nauseous and I couldn't stop scratching myself. My T really helps me when things are occurring in my current life. I think the crisis overwhelms my defenses and I'm so desperate for help I just talk.

I know some people part with therapists amicably and I hope that I can do that one day but I don't want to. I'm attached to him and have gotten a lot out of therapy with him. I also believe that he doesn't actually want me to find a new therapist or think that it would be better for me but he is willing to discuss it and explore why I feel that way. He is also willing to admit that he might be wrong.

I spent my second session this week telling him about what my consult T said. Almost right away he told me I must feel like I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. I said no because I think I am where I was when I started seeing her which is how can I tell when this therapy isn't working because we aren't a good fit versus it can be worked through if I am honest and brave enough to express myself. She has changed her position on that question but I don't know why and I can't just accept her judgement as fact. He said I didn't mean that, I meant that you have gone to her to talk about the things that were to painful and emotionally difficult to talk about with me even though you were trying to find a way to address them with me. Now you have lost that safe place to fall back on in the future or you feel like you have lost it but I'm not sure that you have. It was a very good description of my relationship with consult T and I have always felt awkward discussing consult T with my T because I was worried he was upset about consult T.

Anyway, I'm still hanging in.

Sending your way Cogs.

Hi COGS,

Congratulations to you and your daughter. What an accomplishment!

Oh, your mother does sound mean. You are not being too sensitive. I hurt for you when I read what she said.

My mother is critical too. She doesn't make comments about me directly to me like your mother. She is indirect about it. For instance, she offered to come over and change my curtains. She made it sound like she was doing me a favor but the reality was she didn't like the ones I had up. Or she would send me diets in the mail. Even though she hasn't said she doesn't like my house, it definitely comes across that she doesn't. She doesn't like my house and she doesn't like the way I do the holidays.

quote:

how I am spending too much time volunteering at the kids school and activities.

My mother has said this over and over again. When she says it, I think - but never say - oh and so it's better if I let them sit home in front of the tv day after day and turn out like me? For someone who raised 3/3 dysfunctional children, she sure seems to have a lot of advice on how to raise kids. It IS actually laughable that she seems to think she's an expert in this area.

My mother is direct with me about her criticisms of other people though. She gossips with me about her other children, my siblings. Recently I told my T that every time I talk to my mother, I get really offended and asked if I'm too sensitive. He replied, "maybe your mother is an offensive woman" after hearing what she said. She seems to feel free to share with me all her little petty thoughts. It amazes me that she simply assumes I want to hear them. She sees me as an extension of herself and she has no sense of boundaries.

IDK why or how but lately she doesn't seem to share that stuff too much and/or I'm getting more assertive with her in the moment. I'm also starting to see her for who she really is. She has a need to see herself as the perfect mother. I was completely buying into it as well even though I have always hated her and I blamed myself for hating her.

Oh, gosh, sorry to have talked all about me and my mother. I just wanted to validate your feelings there because, in my opinion, your mother is way out of line.

Maybe you needed to see consult T because you didn't quite know what was wrong and needed someone to help you define the problem? But aside from that, consult T also gave you validation that things maybe weren't going so great with your T and that IT WASN'T ALL YOUR FAULT? There are some parallels here with your relationship with your Mom/parents.

I saw one consult 3 times (altogether 7 consults with various T's) and I asked him if it was hurting my therapy by coming to see him. His response was, if it's an occasional thing, let me run this by you, it wouldn't but if it is a regular thing, then yes, it would hurt my therapy. I felt backed into a corner then too. It made me realize that all my life I've been afraid to tell the people who are hurting me that they are hurting me. That's because those people were actually not very helpful and often hurtful. I've always gone to 3rd parties when I've had a problem with someone even though I knew I should go directly to the person who hurt me. And, so, there I was, doing the same thing with T. But now I've learned that he's different from them, that he is receptive and he cares about my feelings way more than my family ever did.

quote:

Now you have lost that safe place to fall back on in the future or you feel like you have lost it but I'm not sure that you have.

I have a feeling your T cares about your feelings too way more than your family ever did or does.

Thanks for updating. Glad you are hanging in there.

COGS,

Oh this mother issue is a juicy one, isn't it? It has taken me a long time to see this but one side effect of therapy has been that I'm now able to understand that my mother does not have to capacity to see the world from any other point of view than her own. That understanding has helped me so incredibly much and given me the freedom to feel entitled to my own feelings - something I could never do. Growing up was a power struggle over my emotions.

Why has it felt so wrong to have different emotions and thoughts and opinions than my mother? Because she couldn't tolerate it. It was as if our emotions had to be the same and we had to operate as one unit. Maybe she's one of those people who exhibit the "twinship" type of transference.

Maybe your Mom can't see the world from any other point of view either. IDK about your Mom but my Mom's sole and complete identity has been that of mother. All of her emotional energy has gone into that role. And so if I take that away from her by being assertive, there is nothing left of her. I've seen her slip into depression as I've gotten more assertive and it's very hard to witness. I told my T that it's as if to save myself, I have to destroy her.

Okay, I'll get off the topic for now. I don't know if you can relate to any of that. Just has my recent insights. LOL!

Hi incognito,

I understand some of the situation you are in with your T. I worked with a consult T for about 5 months, every other week, on figuring out what I wanted to do with my regular T. A couple of times, I decided to quit regular T and switch to consult. It was four days of agony the first time I debated about switching. When I finally felt that it would be OK to switch, and that I could do it, I then felt so much better, somehow, that I decided that it would also be OK to keep on with regular T. It was like I felt like I had more choice and more control once I made it OK for myself to leave, and then I felt better about staying. A few weeks later, I wanted to switch again, but it was shorter lived. Finally, the only reason I could give for sticking with him was that I was sure that that was what I wanted, whether or not it was the smart decision or the best decision. All I knew is that that's what I really wanted, so I went with that. For now.

Things have been better with us, slowly, and the whole situation has been a real learning experience for me. I have been able to tell him all the things that I am unhappy with and all my criticisms of him and what we do together, and he has let me feel that it is OK to talk to him about all the ways I think he stinks and all the ways that the relationship doesn't work right. I never thought that being able to criticize without repercussions would be the selling point for staying, but it sort of is. I can say I wish this were easier, I wish you were smarter, I wish you felt nicer, I wish you understood me better, and so on, and I have learned some things about what I want and why from talking about it all with him.

We also talked about consult T. He said that she helped him, too. I told him some of the things I liked about working with her. In response, he offered to try to do some of those things himself, and for the other things, he helped explain some of how and why he is different.

We did, a couple weeks ago, talk about why I am staying with him for now and even how maybe there are other therapists out there who would work better for me. But, he assures me that he is not suggesting that I see someone else (I had to call him between sessions and check!). He also assured me that he thinks that we have done good work together and that there is more that we could do and should do.

Now I am more comfortable with the fact that I might change my mind about this often. That's OK. I stopped seeing consult T. I have her as backup if someday I want to go back. Everyone tells me that it's OK if I leave either one and want to go back to either one at some point.

Now I feel that if and when I move on from him, it will not be very distressing and I will feel confident and it will be amicible and it will make sense. We'll see. But it's nice to have that sense.

I wouldn't be surprised if the part of me that wants to stick with him is a child part. We have talked about this, too, a little, and it's good to have what I think I'm going to get out of the relationship, right or wrong, be out there.

I hope any of this helps. Keep hanging in there. I think you will be OK.

Quell

QUELL

quote:

he has let me feel that it is OK to talk to him about all the ways I think he stinks

LOL! That was cute. I am amazed at how hard you have worked. Your T sounds a lot like mine, in that maybe they didn't completely understand us and how to work with us and both have been open to learning how to do that.

I'd like to ask you something. You don't have to answer if you don't want to. But it seems to be relevant to the thread topic, to Incognito's situation, mine and yours and is something I struggle with myself: why wouldn't he be the "right" therapist for you? Why would another therapist be able to work better for you and how would they do that?

If you started to interview therapists to find the "right" one, what would you look for? What is it that perhaps you need that your T couldn't give you?

My T said recently that perhaps last year he wasn't the right therapist for me. He also said that he thinks he is now, that this is what all this work we've been doing together has been about. But I wasn't able to identify that last year. I knew I was miserable. I wouldn't have had a clue as far as what to look for in a T if I had decided to leave him and find a new one. And I'm not sure I would now.

The one thing I can identify that was missing was him being emotionally available to me. He was pretty walled off. But I'm not sure I'd be able to identify a T who IS emotionally available to me.

Liese,

I am no good at making a long story short, but I’ll give it a go. It’s not quite that either my T or I think he is not the right T for me, but that someone else might be easier or better for me. I think it’s a bit like the idea of “good enough” parenting. He is good enough, but someone else may be even better. A couple things:

He is a man.

He doesn’t seem to have had as much experience with people like me.

He is formal.

Wow, that ends the short version. Feel free to stop reading here.

I’m not sure about everything that I would ask if I looked for another T now. I know that a lot of my frustration and criticism of him is what I bring to the situation, so it’s been useful to figure some of that out.

I would definitely ask any caretaking professional in my life in the future to address me by my name. I didn’t know how much it mattered to me until regular T wouldn’t do it. Because of him, I asked consult T to call me by my name every once in a while, and I asked my nutritionist to do it the first time I met with her, too. At the end of our first session, consult T said “Goodbye, Quell.” That’s all I wanted.

Consult T seems to have had more experience with people like me. I’m not sure how I would identify “people like me” if I had to interview a new T. I just know that consult seems to be able to translate what I say quickly and easily. She asks questions that really open me up quickly and I find significant emotional things coming out of my mouth that I didn’t really know were there, waiting for that question. I seem to have more access to my emotions with her. When she interjects, she sounds nice, and adds just the right amount and type of commentary to make me feel good saying more. She does parts therapy and EMDR and a couple of other things and taught me how to breathe so that I don’t get dizzy in session.

Regular T told me that he has a niche in the male teenage pothead client market. I’m not so much that kind of client. He is about 15 years younger with 15 years less experience than consult T. He seems to be very Freudian. He has almost never suggested any strategies, techniques, homework, role-playing, things to be aware of, games, jargon, theories, things to read, alternative perspectives, methods, etc. I asked what his style was one time and he said he didn’t have one. Pretty much I go, I drive the bus, he comes along. I once asked him for a pep talk, as I was not liking therapy much anymore. He asked me how he could get me to give myself a pep talk. OK, a year later, I understand his answer a little more than I did then, but geez, throw a dog a bone once in a while. Problem was that I wouldn’t ask him what he meant by that, and he wouldn’t offer to explain, so I’d just shut up and be frustrated. Now I would ask for clarification. So there’s that.

Looking for a new T now, I would ask about techniques and methods. I would want someone who seems warmer and could be more of a cheerleader and whose empathy would be more palpable. I think that it’s useful for me to work through a relationship with a man, but after this, I would probably go for a woman, especially if the woman would feel more nurturing and caring. When I started with T, I didn’t think I needed anyone to be warm or caring, because I didn’t need that, so he seemed fine. Now I know that it’s OK to need warmth and attention, and I can admit that I do want it. I’d also look for someone more intellectual, although I’m not sure how I’d figure that out. Maybe just ask if they like to read. T doesn’t (not even psych stuff). I'm not saying that’s fair and reasonable. Just saying I think that’s what I’d like more.

I would ask a new T if they had experience working with people like me, even if we had to have a conversation about what “people like me” means. That would probably be a good conversation to start with.

I don’t think I could possibly say any more, so I’ll shut up now

But wait, I can't say all this without saying that I have learned a lot from T and hope to learn more, and there are many, many things that I appreciate about him.

Quell

Quell, you made me laugh, and I needed that. I liked both the short and long versions.

Man, your T sounds like a wet blanket. i wouldn't normally give my opinion - but you set the pace. Sounds like your needs have changed or you have outgrown your T. Time for a new model.

The times I have needed a T - I have been in crisis and I cut to the chase "I am here so you can help me to stop wanting to kill myself" and didn't have the luxury of thinking about what I needed in a T. The very first T (not the useless Pdoc) ended up being perfect and I have gone back to her 4 times in my life. I left a gap of 10 yrs between the last crises (!) and tried another person who was wonderful until they termed me. Then went back to original T and OMG, in the 10 years she happened to blossom into a perfect T that knows everything about trauma, ptsd, bpd and all my bits.

When I was deciding to go back to her, I read her online profile and knew from what I read that she had experience in the therapy modes that treated my issues and she has experience in my issues - so I knew she wouldn't be a dud. I had known her for a long time anyway - so I knew she was nice. The rest was the fit. And that has developed.

One thing I could never have guaged is how I needed to have a T who was incredibly flexible, open minded and prepared to adapt their style to help me. How do you interview a person to find that out????? Every person would say Yes, I am flexible and adaptable - but how do you know. Again by luck - my t is amazing like that. She is always willing to try things and customise what she does.

Good luck with your search.
Somedays

((((COGS))))

Hope you are doing okay. You've been quiet. I'm sorry if discussing whether or not we are seeing the right T is triggering. Please let us know. I think I'll just start a new thread.



Liese

((((Liese))))

no worries about discussing how to find the right T. I am interested in the discussion and I have found it helpful. I just have had a crisis with my parents. It started last thursday with my mothers comments and snowballed. I'm going to put that in a new thread.

Quell, I found your description of recognizing that there might be a better T for you but you can choose to work with your current T very helpful and empowering. It is a new way to look at things. I tend to be very black and white, either he is the right T for me or I should find another T.

((((COGS))))

I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult time with your parents. You recognized something really important below that I tend to do too:

quote:

Quell, I found your description of recognizing that there might be a better T for you but you can choose to work with your current T very helpful and empowering. It is a new way to look at things. I tend to be very black and white, either he is the right T for me or I should find another T.

Hi cogs,

I'm so sorry that things have snowballed since that painful encounter with your mother. It seems like your T is really there for you and supporting you now, and I'm glad for that. I hope you can keep leaning on him.

It took me a while to even realize the difference between my black and white mindset and whatever it is that I've somewhat moved on to. I don't even really know how to explain the difference yet, in terms of relationships, but I know that there is a difference in my thinking not just with my relationship with my T, but also with other important relationships in my life.

Even good relationships are sometimes crappy. Seems obvious, but I wasn't comfortable with that idea. Work in progress.

Please take care (((cogs)))