(((CAT)))

quote:

I'm sure my T would not teach me that if I'm trying to get something I need and the person says no, and I try to negotiate and they still say no... that I should just keep relentlessly asking.

That right there could be the enactment that TAS herself can't get out of and the whole situation has been recreated in her therapy. That's just my belief. It's all very complicated why someone might continue to ask for something when it seems unlikely that they will get it from a particular person.

((TAS))

Here I go again referring to you in the 3rd person. I'm sorry. I'm going to stop now. I hope you are doing okay.

Liese: I wish it was just a lack of insight I am trying to look at this from his point of view...how I see it and seeing why there can not be any compromise on this issue. That is what is confusing to me. No compromise. None. And what really bothers me is that he used the word 'comply...' that brings to mind Pavlov's dogs...I am not something to be conditioned...

Anyway, I am not sure what I believe that I am saying...I am trying to see it from his viewpoint but everything seems so cloudy. I don't know if that makes sense.

I don't know how much of this is about trust and I don't know how much of this is about knowing what I need and standing up for it. Or, is it about hearing a no and being okay with it. All of these are plausible, but I still feel as if I need this. I have asked myself, Is this something you just want and are you acting like a toddler when you say you have to find another Therapist. Or is this you being an adult and saying, "I am not able to do this. I know what I need. I need this to continue the journey."

So, I don't know how to get him to hear and consider a different way.

I know if I leave this Therapist, I am not going to go see anyone else. I already want to go and steal my file from this guy...just because I don't want my personal stuff in the hands of anyone.

Monte: I am jealous your T. relented but I am so glad for you that you held your ground and he was able to see possibly he had missed something important when he made the decision.

I am just getting worn down by the fight...and honestly, I feel he knew this would do me in and that is why he is not relenting. He wants me to go away but won't tell me. He just made this hard line rule and he knows I hate rules for the sake of rules...

He has made his position clear and now I have to decide if it is something I can bear. It looks more and more as if it is not, it is touching on too many things of my past...and I am not going to let this get the best of me.

Anon: I could be pushing the boundaries ...at this point anything is possible. I don't know what I am doing, why I am doing it but I do know if I were to write a letter it would just say, "I am confused." Then I don't know what to say after that.

I think it is amazing you wrote this reply on your phone! You got some skills

I don't want to push his boundaries and that is why I am unsure how to proceed.

Catalyst: Honestly, I don't think this is coming from a sense of entitlement. Of course, that can be difficult to see if one is operating in that manner. I don't know why I can't let this go. I am trying to break this down...maybe I should just stop trying and forget about understanding it.

quote:

Originally posted by TAS:
.... And what really bothers me is that he used the word 'comply...' that brings to mind Pavlov's dogs...I am not something to be conditioned...



So, I don't know how to get him to hear and consider a different way.
.......
I know if I leave this Therapist, I am not going to go see anyone else. I already want to go and steal my file from this guy...just because I don't want my personal stuff in the hands of anyone.

The comply thing would completely set me off. It upsets me to read about it being used at someone else even.
I think the hard thing to accept here may be that there is nothing you can do to get him to change. IT is not because you have not found the correct way to communicate it to him, it is that he is not willing to change his mind. And that lack of control and powerlessness may be what is fueling some of this (or I could be very very wrong). You do have other choices - just not with this particular guy. I think you are giving him way too much power over you if because of him you would not consider seeing some other therapist. I still believe checking out some other ones might help clarify your situation with this one guy.

Draggers:

I have asked him every possible way I could think of. I have asked to just touch base twice a week...on Tues and Fri...nothing long and drawn out...
He took it away three months ago and said it could be revisited. That is when he said he wasn't changing his mind. Then he said I needed to comply after I told him I needed this and would have to change Therapists.

He has every right to request this...but I can walk away if I feel I need this more than his strict boundaries.

Muff: Perhaps I lack insight. It is not from trying to figure it out. My intellect is a safe place and if I can understand it and it makes sense...then I am good. None of this is making sense... even though I want it to so I don't have to walk away.

Thank you T.

You mean run away Tas. Really, I dont blame you. If you cant cope with the feelings of rage by fixating on the boundary prob, you have no choice but to run.

There is no place to run to that is safe enough though Tas. Those feelings of rage remain in our head no matter where we go.

That is the big pic Tas. That is what so many in here feel every moment. They have the insight to know pain/anger/rage must be felt before healing can happen.

Running is not a matter of choice for you Tas, it is a matter of survival.

Hello RT,

Yes, I say "poor TAS" because sheesh, this has been painful for her from what Ive seen and I am personally empathetic with her position for all this time. Sorry if the choice of words doesn't fit for you. Sorry if the word entitlement is difficult for you also.

TAS - sheesh I'm sorry, I was talking in general terms. I do not think where you are coming from with this is "entitlement" (which is a strong word, I apologize). I was using it as a banket statement pertaining to stuff expressed in general sometimes. For example that a T is bad if they don't give hugs, or give outside contact (i mean from the whole board in general at times). I kind of see that as feeling everyone's T is obligated to treat trauma survivors the exact same way when some, like your T (like mine, like others) don't give us the things most people think is required (required! There is a better word). Does that make more sense? Your T is not necessary an idiot... Just not a good fit for your needs. I hope that makes better sense, I know it's a loaded word and didn't mean it at all personally Please let me know if that makes more sense or if I'm still not coming across in the empathetic support of your position that Meant to. I was trying to convey not all Ts *must* work the same; unfortunately some just don't and it sucks.

I agree so much with what Monte said and Liese - it IS worth the fight for want you need and want - I meant just not with this dude if even seeing him with the boundaries would be too hard. I've had to do that kills me.

Draggers: Sorry, forgot to mention just in last weeks session I offered to pay him for the outside contact and he said no. So, I have tried everything and he still says no. He said that certain things just don't change...a lot of thought is given to the changes before they are implemented.

Catalyst: Please know if I did not take any offense and completely understand where you are coming from I agree with you. T's shouldn't be placed in a position to give anything they don't want to.

For myself, this is somewhat difficult because it was something already given; which makes it difficult to understand. He has said he thinks it will better contain all that is being worked on...but then it just brings up that he doesn't want me, he wants to get rid of me, he created this rule, knowing I would have a hard time and would not be able to 'comply', etc. etc. etc.

I don't make sense to myself. At all.

T.

Yeah Muff, you are probably right. I do want to run away. I would love to. Pack up and leave. We all know the problem with that, though, don't we? Yeah, we just take that sh** straight with us and the world never changes because of what we carry within us.

I understand your point and I appreciate you pushing me, in a helpful way.

T.

Stoppers: I hate the feeling of powerlessness but I do have a choice...I can leave. I don't have to stay. If I stay, it's because I have chosen to. If I go, it's because I have chosen to. I would like it to be a well thought out decision instead of a reactive one (I am pretty good at the latter).

If I stay, I want it to be for valid reasons and not because I don't feel I have any other choice.

Thank you for replying. T.

TAS: Yea... I think I've commiserated on this before. I'd rather not be given anything than lose it... it's because I don't like the pain. Just like when someone dies (I had them... then they are gone... the connection may still be there, but it's different - changed forever). lame.

Catalyst: The whole having something and then losing it just touches on too many things for me.

I am with you on the whole not having something than having it and then losing it.

T.

i went back and i reread everything and made notes in the margins and was going to type up a long response, but when i got near the end, i read this gem:

quote:

He has said he thinks it will better contain all that is being worked on...but then it just brings up that he doesn't want me, he wants to get rid of me, he created this rule, knowing I would have a hard time and would not be able to 'comply', etc. etc. etc.

you answered your own dilemma, TAS. this whole sentence needs to be considered, not just the words after '...', but before the dots, too. look at the whole sentence. his refusal to deviate from this boundary of his is doing exactly that: it is containing and bringing to the surface all of these feelings that you listed. i, like you, have a difficult time with feelings. but you just stated your feelings. That is the fruit you are looking for in therapy, TAS. right here: he doesn't want me, he wants to get rid of me, he created this rule, knowing I would have a hard time and would not be able to 'comply'. i think i remember you saying in another thread something about feeling like he wants to hurt you by not lifting this boundary, and you not wanting to say something to him because that would be too mean or cruel or whatever. Heavens! THAT is what therapy is for! it is for YOU. not for you to protect your therapist. he has resources to help him deal with that stuff if need be, trust me. please think about this, TAS. wait, NO! nonononononono! i know you ... don't think about it. go to therapy (if that's what you decide to do) and tell him this stuff. it's really okay to do this. and, in fact, it's critical to the success of your therapy. and now is such a great opportunity to work through all this stuff! do you trust him? do you trust you? scary, yes. but this might be the one and only time.

that was pretty long anyway, wasn't it? (((TAS))) take it easy. let go of what's socially acceptable in brain and say what you need to say from brain. if you go back. good luck, either way.

Thank you for pointing that out and highlighting it The problem with all of this makes me want to go away and that I SHOULD go away. I feel it even in my body...just go away. This problem would be solved, there would be no boundary I keep bumping into and I could keep myself intact.

I know what you are saying...it is about trust. I need to but I am so scared to. That's what I keep coming back to, I AM SCARED. Yet, I don't know exactly what of. I truly don't.

If I go back, it won't be this week. I need some space to reevaluate how I am seeing this and try to get ahold of myself.

Thank you for noticing what you did. I really appreciate it I am really thinking about this and perhaps my problem is I am overthinking and trying to regain control.

I guess I don't have to have it all figured out and it is okay that I don't.

Thank you and I appreciate YOU!
T.

quote:

I AM SCARED. Yet, I don't know exactly what of. I truly don't.

If I go back, it won't be this week. I need some space to reevaluate how I am seeing this and try to get ahold of myself.

it's okay to be scared, TAS (another feeling). and it's okay to not know what you're scared of. i truly don't know what i'm scared of about therapy, but that's why we keep going: to learn this shit about ourselves so we can overcome and be control of our own lives, and live them fully.

quote:

I am really thinking about this and perhaps my problem is I am overthinking and trying to regain control.
I guess I don't have to have it all figured out and it is okay that I don't.

BINGO!

if you need space, take the space. reevaluate and get ahold of yourself. it's all good. your T will respect you for it, and you can ease up and take a breather. i think you need it. my only advice: schedule something in the future, whether it's a month or two or six. just ... schedule it. do it for yourself.

It is not always the client who is wrong. Therapists are not always correct. Mostly they just guess and hope and sometimes it helps. They can get vindictive and cruel just like anyone else when they feel frustrated. The important thing to me is that a client be able to see it and not let the therapist have the upper hand.