To me the reply just sounds honest about your hesitancy and uncertainty on your follow-through. There may be a little resistance in there, but these T's are always trying to get us to set our own boundaries, so honestly about your reticence should be acceptable, right? That being said, it sounds like T1 has your best interest at heart and asked in a very non-threatening way for you to do something she thinks is good for you. Is there a reason you don't want to discuss it with T2? Not that you have to say if you're uncomfortable. But, maybe if you're feeling bad about the way you responded (which, I don't think you need to), you could contact her to clarify. I've done this too many times to count and I always worry it drives T nuts, but I guess I feel it's better than stressing that I've been misunderstood or offended him. Maybe just admit to T1 that you're not sure you'll be able to get yourself to talk to T2 about it and T1 can help you work through why that is and get you to a point of feeling safer about it? Just my thoughts. I don't know the dynamic of having two Ts, so I might not be the best person to be giving advice.

LG,

I'm sorry you were in a place that led you to these behaviors. I think it should be up to you if you tell about the behavior.

Actually, the bigger issue that I see here (and keep in mind that I'm way off my center this week and in a bad mood) is the triangulation of the relationship between your two T's and you. It reminds me of a dynamic between a kid and two parents. Don't tell dad I did such and such type of thing. Maybe I am totally off base here, but it seems like this type of set-up could be replaying some old issues.

LadyGrey,

You are generally very wonderfully authentic and clear. I get the impression from you that you mean what you say and say what you mean.

I’m not sure how T1 will take it. It’s hard when T’s want to make deals like this because it puts us in binds like this. If I was in your T’s shoes, I would want your T to know, and I would also want it to come from you. It does feel… like parental-ish. It feels like something I might say to the kids I nanny sometimes. If the 12 year old boy did something wrong and broke something, like hit a baseball in the house after I told him not to, and broke a vase, and he didn’t want me to tell his parents, I can see how I, as the nanny, might say well, either you tell them you broke the vase hitting a baseball in the house or I will, and I think they want to hear it from you.

But as to if your response is manipulative or not, I think if I was in your T’s shoes (which I am not), but from what I know of you, I would not see it as manipulative, and I also wouldn’t be completely reassured you would tell your T. She does want your other T to know, but it really should come from you. Also, T1 does know… you did tell her. Did it feel safer to tell her? more comfortable? easir to reach her and tell her?

going back to what your T1 said and wants, which is for you to tell T2, it is possible it could never come up… So if I was in your T’s shoes, I would be thinking it could not come up. So yeah, it’s a little resistant… you are pusching back against the idea of T2 knowing.
That resistance isn’t you doing something wrong. It’s just where you are at. It’s hard to talk about this stuff and admit when we have made a mistake and ask for help. I'd resist too.

you told your T you didn’t want T2 to know… you were honest about that so it doesn’t seem manipulative to me. It’s so much easier when something does sort of come up anyhow rather than initiating bringing it up anyhow.

setbacks are a part of recovering and healing, and it’s hard when it happens. I’m so sorry. I recently slipped up with SI. I went so long and then, bam, I was right in the middle of it. I was so ashamed that I did it again. I was so scared and horrified and felt so awful about telling my T. It took some time for me to finally tell her, it just ate me up until I did, but I eventually I did tell her, and in the end, I was glad I did. It took some time and talking with my T before I could finally tell her – but she was really supportive and helped me even deal with the shame about what I did. I hope that when *you* are ready, that you won’t let the shame keep you from telling T2… and I hope she could be helpful at dealing with the deeper stuff behind why you were hurting and deal with that in a better way. (Which is ***so*** much easier to say than do, I know.)

All of this may totally miss the mark, and if so, please just disregard.

Most of all, I’m sorry you have been upset and hurting.

many safe hugs,
~jane

(((((LADYGREY)))))

Hey there. Sorry you had such a hard time this weekend. I'm glad you at least told T1. I thought your answer was honest and didn't sound manipulative. At the end of the day, however, I think if you want help with this issue, you will have to tell T2. T1 will not tell T2. Are you worried about what T2 will think? Why was it easier to tell T1?

LG, Just to expand on what STRM mentioned above about the triangulation. My T told me ages ago that you can't have two therapists. Recently when I was consulting, I asked this T that question. He said basically the same thing. That it's okay to consult once in a while, as in, hey I just want to run something by you. But that basically it becomes counterproductive to have two T's. Just thought I would throw that out there.

My T said the same thing about not having two Ts. My H suggested I see a second one (his work insurance will cover 8 sessions a year, but not with my T, because he is Christian-based, and after the 8, you can never see that same person again). I told him I thought it would cause confusion and maybe even be damaging and when I asked T, that's exactly what he said, that it's not generally recommended. He did say there was an exception where the dynamic would not interfere with the therapist relationship, like group therapy or a psychiatrist for med reasons. Obviously, there is not 100% agreement across Ts for this, but I do understand how it could be confusing. But, there might be many reasons to do this (e.g. your T is not local and supporting you online/phone) that I suppose Ts might be willing to or even suggest doing it. I know my T is against it for me, though. Probably good. I tend to blindly accept what authority figures say, so if I had two Ts giving me slightly different messages, I could self-destruct. I already get T and H giving me different messages sometimes (not always) and it is very problematic. And H isn't really an authority figure, just someone I trust has more wisdom and common sense than I do.

((((LG)))))

We all make mistakes. I posted on another thread what I almost did this weekend. And, I too, like to think of myself as a person with integrity. And, honestly, LG, you are not the one who is engaged. Your ex is the one who is enaged so if we were going to start judging here, which I certainly don't want to do, I'd like to point that out. There were two of you involved and you are the single one. Why are you more culpable than he is?

I personally don't think that she'll think any less of you because I certainly don't think any less of you. I am really glad you chose to tell all of us what a hard time you have been having this weekend. I think you are a wonderful, beautiful person who is struggling a lot. I know it's hard because of your fear of being judged but because of the life-threatening nature of things, can you try to tell T2 before T1 does? That way, you will feel more in control of the process. You also have to know at some level that T2 hopefully is a person of integrity and will understand what you are going through and not judge you.

((((LADYGREY)))))) ((((BIG HUGS))))))

Liese

...didn't mean to post anything here

(((((LG)))) That is a wonderfully brave and honest response. I think it's really amazing of you to face this how you are. You deserve so much kindness and care, not shame and guilt. Your courage to step out and keep engaging on this encourages me to keep being frank and honest with my own T. Be as kind to you as you can. You may have made a mistake, but it's just a mistake, and you are doing so much very well.

((((LG))))) Thinking of you.

I think it's amazing you can be so honest with T1 and you should be patient with yourself to develop that safety with T2. I doubt you will find judgment there, but can completely understand how it would feel that way. Thinking about you!

LG,

Wow, you have a lot of integrity and guts. I hope that T1 receives that well and that you feel safe with her response and the response of T2 if and when she is made aware of what happened.

As far as the ex issue, I agree that it is HIS boundary to keep if he is engaged. Even if you knew, he is the one who is engaged not you. I don't think that your T would think any differently of you. (((hugs)))

quote:

Originally posted by LadyGrey:
ok, this is what I am going to text her...

"its not fair of me to ask you not to tell T2 that stuff. Sorry for putting you in that position, sort of like a manipulative child. "Don't tell mom I I did x,y,z". I think I was testing your trustworthiness (subconsciously). I know better than to tell you things and then ask you to carry the burden of liability alone. Sorry. "

T1 texted back: Did I pass?

Me: Of course. I wouldn't have felt guilty about testing you if you hadn't passed. There is a part of me that wanted you to fail though. So much easier knowing you cannot trust someone than continually putting your faith in them every day. So much risk involved.

T1: Sorry, but you are stuck with me for the long haul.

me: You are like a styrofoam packaging peanut stuck to a cat. No matter how much I swat at it with my paws and roll around in the dirt, its not going anywhere.

That made me smile.

LG,

Just checking in. How are you doing?

LG,

That last text you sent made me crack up!!! Such a good visual there.

I'm doing okay, Liese. Things with T! are good. I hate T2 though. So difficult to be testing two therapists simultaneously!!! lol

LG,

Can you tell me how you test them? Only if you want. Do we all do it? Why do we do it? Is it part of our defense mechanisms?

quote:

Originally posted by Liese:
LG,

Can you tell me how you test them? Only if you want. Do we all do it? Why do we do it? Is it part of our defense mechanisms?

With T2, I am constantly either terminating my therapy or canceling appointments with her.

With T1, I tell her things and ask her not to tell T2 or I try to make her mad at me or disappointed in me. I try to see how far I can go before she decides I am too much to deal with. She has said that she will NEVER terminate me and I am determined to prove her wrong! lol