Armored-I wish I had an answer for you. Just know you are not alone! I hope that you are able to work on this part of yourself and feel better about it! If you don't feel comfortable with the friend and babysitting situation, you need to tell her your feelings. Just my opinion...easier said than done....

I do the same thing with many people in my life. I know I need to work on assertiveness and boundary setting. It's incredibly hard to change something that for my entire life I've dealt with a certain way. I tend not to say how I feel about something or my opinion on something. I will let others just do as they please and I usually don't notice until I feel intense anger or I shut down and withdraw. Then, it takes me a while to figure out what was bothering me. I think my problem is that I don't tend to go back to the person or people and explain what happened or how I was feeling and come to some sort of compromise. I distance myself and end up feeling sad and beating myself up for it later.

((AH))I'm sorry for your struggle. I have this boundary issue as well. I'm improving and learning to say no, but its still a problem for me. I agree with you that it stems from childhood. I also think for myself, that I don't want to be disliked so I try to please others, which is pathetic and it angers me when I act this way. But I'm learning to change slowly, because it wears a person out, and its not living for me, but living to please everyone else. I'm trying to realize that I'm worthwhile and I have needs to. Whose always saying yes, yes, yes to me? "NO ONE". We need safe, comfortable boundaries to take good care of ourselves. The more I practice at saying no thank you for things I really don't want to do, the easier it gets, and it emotionally helps heal me. Just take baby steps and don't be hard on yourself. A few small steps will eventually lead to larger steps. Your not alone

Nope, this never has happened to me. Nuh uh.

Sorry for the levity, I know it is a deadly serious subject. I wanted to say that I identify a lot with what you wrote.

I used to have no concept of what boundaries really were. No concept that there was even a choice to say "No, this is not how it is going to be"

Sadly, this is what parents truly don't get when they set up the conditions to create a really, really compliant child. I learned pretty quickly to be the child my parents wanted; serious, polite, kind, academic, helpful, thoughtful. Oh, and incapable of recognising that I had any individual worth whatsoever - my worth was defined by what I could give.

By 20 I had crashed and burned, got into some difficult situations at university through just not understanding that I could say no to people and then spent my 20s trying to learn concepts that I should have picked up as a young child. It has been hideous trying to do boundaries with the attachment problems I have.

Partly it has been down to some healing through therapy helping me get a sense of individuality separate from being an add-on to my parents. Partly it has been quite behavioural - I have had to teach myself stock phrases so I don't bail on myself in the middle of trying to say no. I know it is a weakness I will probably always carry.

I think once you get that it is okay and not damaging to others to say no, then it is easier. If you've spent your life believing that you have the power to hurt someone terribly by not being 100% available then it is bloody hard to step outside that and truly believe that a no is just a no, not a horrible act of betrayal.

I remember once someone saying to me that never saying no and then getting burned out and resentful and passively communicating my discomfort was actually harder for others to deal with than a polite, calmly-stated no. It was a massive eye-opener. I had no idea!

I am sorry you struggle with this thorny issue too, AH.

((Athenacus)) I'm glad to not be alone, but hate that you also have to struggle with this

quote:

I will let others just do as they please and I usually don't notice until I feel intense anger or I shut down and withdraw. Then, it takes me a while to figure out what was bothering me. I think my problem is that I don't tend to go back to the person or people and explain what happened or how I was feeling and come to some sort of compromise. I distance myself and end up feeling sad and beating myself up for it later.

Exactly!! That part is sooooo hard. I always think, 'what's the point? I will just make them hate me, so I'll run away from them completely.' It is difficult when it's been that way for so long. I guess like everything on this journey, it's one thing at a time learning to change.


((eme)) Sorry you too have had to deal with this I am inspired that you are making progress with it, because wanting to be liked is such a powerful driving force. I'm wondering if anyone makes it out of a chaotic childhood with this boundary thing in tact? Is that even possible?

quote:

Whose always saying yes, yes, yes to me? "NO ONE". We need safe, comfortable boundaries to take good care of ourselves. The more I practice at saying no thank you for things I really don't want to do, the easier it gets, and it emotionally helps heal me.

I like that thought, no one says yes yes yes to me especially the people who really are just there to take advantage. I got outrageously angry with someone who once used every drop of me emotionally, financially, my time and energy, and when I asked for one small thing in return (a favor I really needed) she seemed so annoyed and found a way out of it. It hit home that those who need boundaries enforced the most sometimes don't care at all about your feelings, so why do I care so much about hurting theirs?? I hope it keeps getting easier for you


((mallard)) levity is always welcome with me I also had never even heard the term 'boundary' until about a year ago. It still seems like a concept from another planet, truthfully. I actually struggle to tell small children no, so my nieces and nephews have all learned quickly which aunt they can get whatever they want from ah, but I don't mind that one so much I suppose I totally get that it feels like a life and death answer to hand out a 'no'. For me, my parents took that to a literal level (too triggering to elaborate much more, I've put some stuff in sensitive issues)

quote:

I remember once someone saying to me that never saying no and then getting burned out and resentful and passively communicating my discomfort was actually harder for others to deal with than a polite, calmly-stated no. It was a massive eye-opener.

That is really profound... I guess coming at it from the angle of not wanting to hurt others, it makes sense to think of it in those terms as hurting them less by being upfront about your needs. I'm sorry for all you've had to go through Sending hugs



***** I did want to update to say that your replies really did help me find enough bravery to deal with this situation. The friend I mentioned here is not one whom I've felt any manipulation from or that she wants to take advantage of me, which in a way made it harder to say no But I took a leap and was honest with her. I didn't go into any of my reasonings about exT being so close, and not feeling ready to be by there all the time now (she's not been in therapy, I didn't feel she would understand that) But I told her that I don't feel comfortable committing to a schedule of regularly coming over to watch the kids (also she lives about 30 min away) I said I don't really have the emotional or physical energy leftover to take on giving that much help dependably, but I do love her and the kids, and will help when I can. And then I braced myself for all of the worse case scenarios. You know the ones, (she'll hate me forever, she'll stop being my friend, her kids will hate me, the world may implode in a fiery catastrophic way ) And to my *enormous* surprise, NONE of those things happened

In fact, she said everyone has limitations to what they can take on, but thanked me for all the help I have given her (she's going through a really rough divorce and things are a mess) and said that she respects my needs and her and the girls still love me.

<--- pretty sure I looked like that. And pretty sure I feel a lot closer to her now. It was kinda cool

(((draggers)))

Thank you!!! I guess I'll take a second to do this ---> (mostly because I think that's the cutest icon and there are relatively few chances to use it)

I am truly sorry this is something hard for you too I hope seeing it's possible to have a different outcome in saying no will inspire you somehow that you don't have to be used to the last drop or else face dire consequences. I think it made all the difference that I was blessed enough to experience this with someone who responded to me with respect, and that fosters hope in me that there is a different way than I've been taught. The trick will be in holding on to that feeling, and trying to make that leap of faith again with people who may not respond so well. But I think even then I may be surprised that their lack of understanding won't equate to catastrophe (hopefully!! I'll have to test that one out to be sure...) Baby steps...

Thank you again for being proud of me, it means a lot

Yeah! Armored Heart, that's awesome! Good for you!

Hey, I am so glad you were able to enforce a boundary and that it went okay! It is amazing when you start saying no, politely, and people don't leave you in droves.

(((athenacus))) (((pengs))) (((mallard)))

Thank you lovelies!!

I actually have a new update... SO this weekend, I had a family member ask me for a fairly significant favor. A short background with this person- I have a history with her as being very passive aggressive, manipulative, and holding a strong sense of entitlement. (that may sound cruel, but if I went through the list of our interactions it would actually sound like an understatement I think) She just has a way of using people financially, emotionally, physically, and if they don't go above and beyond she is highly offended and confrontational. And she will talk about everyone behind their back. Just toxic in general, I'm sorry to say. I've fallen into it for years, and done so many things, only to be met with zero appreciation, and 'couldn't you have done more?' I've really grown resentful to the point I try to avoid her as much as possible!!

She called, and I ignored the call because it always means one thing, 'I need... *insert demand here*'. Sure enough the voice mail left was just that. I waited awhile to respond, letting my internal panic build. I was thinking, I really can't do this anymore... I have to tell her no. This is the one person I've always wanted to say no to the most. But I know the results won't be as pretty as my last experience with my friend... Which is worse, say yes and be exhausted, depleted and angry? or say no and see what happens?

I sent her a text, because any more personalized interaction than that, I would have caved. I simply said "I'm sorry. I can't help you with that." Short and sweet seemed the way to go... Then I tried to brace myself

She was not happy. She demanded an explanation, and I just ignored her texts for the night. Then I was forced to see her yesterday and she really treated me poorly in person. Like she is seriously having a hissy fit over that no. You would think I'd done something unforgivable to her the way she's acting. And what's funny, if you had a written record of all the times I'd said 'yes' and gone WAY out of my way for her, it'd be a list a mile long. One no, and the list suddenly vanished into thin air.

Which prompted a real moment, the more thought I gave it.

WHY AM I BOTHERING WITH HER???!! Did this situation release all of my childlike reactions of panic and shame and self loathing? Absolutely. I wanted to crawl under a chair and say 'yes ma'am I'm sorry. I'm so sorry I refused to cater to your unreasonable demands.' My brain seriously beat me down for not doing that. And I fought my brain tooth and nail, and held out until the feelings passed, and they were replaced with a bit of anger. Anger that another human should be so self entitled to think they can act like that.

I almost feel this situation was more eye opening than the first. Life passes by too quickly to waste even a moment on the people who prove that they have zero regard for you. They are essentially stealing time that you could spend with those who really care. So in a way, saying no, as scary as it is, is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself and your loved ones. It really has a way of separating the users and abusers from those who care unconditionally. And really, isn't that what we are striving for?

AH you are really an inspiration. Learning a taking steps forward. Even without the support of a T right now.

it is great that you can 'see' that you were feeling that way, and react to it!

Wow! Way to go, AH!!!

(((Jillann))) (((about))) (((athenacus)))

Thank you guys!!!