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quote:
I have settled into a very deep security with my T and am pretty much willing to discuss anything. If it's difficult to handle, it's because of my feelings, not being worried about my T handling it. I know its safe to discuss anything and I know I can absolutely trust the relationship. Even this break, I was scared about him being away, but that was about not having him here with me, not about wondering if the relationship was intact. And even at that, while I recognize I am having those feelings, I know that having him be away is not really a reason for me to be scared. The fear is based on my past.
This is same for me too AG.
Eventually I tired myself of it too. It's a DBT thing I think I subscribed to that sort of works on the principal of reducing suffering and sort of bouncing different perspectives around. I felt like I had to make "the next move forward" and risk more and more... This only came from having a lot of consistency from my T.
I think I could have spent a life time in agony if I wasn't working with such a butt kicking, painfully consistent and loving T. If I hadn't had the room and the safe place I knew I'd land... I'd have never taken the risks to go for what I need!
So, I think it is possible to resolve the pain - and if not that far at least to dull it. Sometimes the furthest we can go is managing it or surviving it and that's okay too.
To bluntly answer your question (in the first sentence) YES... THAT IS WHY I Quit.
..... for me... unhealthy dependence. I could no longer take it. Unlike your T, Mark was not helping me see it. I think, he enjoyed my dependence. though I am unsure of that. He could not, or would not, help me break away. But I doubt he was aware of this. I M stronger, happier, and healthier, letting go of the "Mark hole in my heart."
Reality must kick in on a deep level. This is what II needed, anyway.
The only one who will never ever let me down, is God.
That is my story.
..... for me... unhealthy dependence. I could no longer take it. Unlike your T, Mark was not helping me see it. I think, he enjoyed my dependence. though I am unsure of that. He could not, or would not, help me break away. But I doubt he was aware of this. I M stronger, happier, and healthier, letting go of the "Mark hole in my heart."
Reality must kick in on a deep level. This is what II needed, anyway.
The only one who will never ever let me down, is God.
That is my story.
PS... I loved your last blog about after therapy relationships. INCREDIBLY informative for me.
THANK YOU!!!
THANK YOU!!!
... and validating.
(((AG)))
The grief part was/is really hard for me to deal with too. I still find myself looking and hoping for things I can't have anymore but, like you, I am quicker to catch it. Thanks for responding. I really do appreciate it.
Wow, that sounds amazing. So glad to hear it. It DID help hearing about your experience with pain. You know, the light at the end of the tunnel. That there actually is one.
(((CAT))))
Cat, awesome to hear that you have had resolution of pain also. You both have really steady, consistent and loving therapists. I have that now so maybe it won't be anything like the last time. Thank you too for sharing your experience. It was really helpful.
quote:I think the most important part, and the hardest is the grief. Making my peace with things that cannot be fixed or changed and realizing that all I could change was myself and my feelings allowed me to shift my energy from looking for that which I cannot have anymore to that which I can get now so I can move forward and let my past be my past, instead of something that interferes all the time with the present.
The grief part was/is really hard for me to deal with too. I still find myself looking and hoping for things I can't have anymore but, like you, I am quicker to catch it. Thanks for responding. I really do appreciate it.
quote:I'm not done but I'm far enough along the way to know I'll get there. The pain that crops up is just a sign that there's another wound that must be tended to. Eventually they'll run out or I'll die, but in the meantime, I am living my life and it's a lot better than it used to be.
Wow, that sounds amazing. So glad to hear it. It DID help hearing about your experience with pain. You know, the light at the end of the tunnel. That there actually is one.
(((CAT))))
quote:Eventually I tired myself of it too. It's a DBT thing I think I subscribed to that sort of works on the principal of reducing suffering and sort of bouncing different perspectives around. I felt like I had to make "the next move forward" and risk more and more... This only came from having a lot of consistency from my T.
I think I could have spent a life time in agony if I wasn't working with such a butt kicking, painfully consistent and loving T. If I hadn't had the room and the safe place I knew I'd land... I'd have never taken the risks to go for what I need!
Cat, awesome to hear that you have had resolution of pain also. You both have really steady, consistent and loving therapists. I have that now so maybe it won't be anything like the last time. Thank you too for sharing your experience. It was really helpful.
((((MAYO))))
So sorry about the pain. I know it too well. My guess is some T's can't see how they are contributing to the pain. I'm glad you are feeling stronger, happier and healthier now.
So sorry about the pain. I know it too well. My guess is some T's can't see how they are contributing to the pain. I'm glad you are feeling stronger, happier and healthier now.
Thanks, Liese.
The hard part... is the things we do in common, so occasionally we run into each other.
The pain is gone, for the most part, but it is obvious (at least to me) there is unfinished work.
The hard part... is the things we do in common, so occasionally we run into each other.
The pain is gone, for the most part, but it is obvious (at least to me) there is unfinished work.
Thanks for that insight, Summer. I can relate to the pattern theory, and hind site is 20/20.
When I was ready to leave therapy I seemed to have a strong handle on my past but did not understand attachment. My sweet T was a good T, but unlike AG's T, he did not help me transition through the pain of the attachment. I ended up seeing another T just to gain perspective.
AG has posted some terrific info on her blog. Very helpful indeed.
Thanks...
When I was ready to leave therapy I seemed to have a strong handle on my past but did not understand attachment. My sweet T was a good T, but unlike AG's T, he did not help me transition through the pain of the attachment. I ended up seeing another T just to gain perspective.
AG has posted some terrific info on her blog. Very helpful indeed.
Thanks...
((((SUMMER))))
Those were some amazing insights. I will have to take a look to see it I see a pattern myself. I'm glad to hear that the pain has leveled out for you. I'll write more later after I get off from work.
Those were some amazing insights. I will have to take a look to see it I see a pattern myself. I'm glad to hear that the pain has leveled out for you. I'll write more later after I get off from work.
what keeps me going to therapy is the belief that the therapeutic relationship is representative of other emotionally intimate relationships I've had in my life with other people - ones that have caused me pain, yes.
if i stop going to therapy, the pain probably would ease somewhat - but long term, i don't think it would be less, or my life any more painless.
at least with the T relationship, i have someone at the other end of it who doesn't want anything from me in return; she is there for me, i am not there for her. and unlike any other relationship i'll ever have in my life, she its trained especially to help me work through the issues that come up between us (which aren't of course, really about 'us' at all).
for me, i see it as - i can choose to walk away form therapy when it gets too hard, and thus lose the unique opportunity i have to learn and do something different in an emotionally close relationship, or i can walk away, but still be none the wiser as to how to manage emotional intimacy.
i guess it's pain, or worse pain - which doesn't seem much of a choice, but i guess at least by seeing my T, i have someone to walk through it with me.
if i stop going to therapy, the pain probably would ease somewhat - but long term, i don't think it would be less, or my life any more painless.
at least with the T relationship, i have someone at the other end of it who doesn't want anything from me in return; she is there for me, i am not there for her. and unlike any other relationship i'll ever have in my life, she its trained especially to help me work through the issues that come up between us (which aren't of course, really about 'us' at all).
for me, i see it as - i can choose to walk away form therapy when it gets too hard, and thus lose the unique opportunity i have to learn and do something different in an emotionally close relationship, or i can walk away, but still be none the wiser as to how to manage emotional intimacy.
i guess it's pain, or worse pain - which doesn't seem much of a choice, but i guess at least by seeing my T, i have someone to walk through it with me.
((((MONTE AND ELIZA)))
Just got in from work a little while ago. Thank you for your replies. I'll be back in the morning. Nice to hear more stories of at least some resolution of pain.
Just got in from work a little while ago. Thank you for your replies. I'll be back in the morning. Nice to hear more stories of at least some resolution of pain.
quote:I can’t escape or be compensated for my first twenty years. On a clear day I can see my longing for more from him for what it is...our interactions are glimpses of what I should’ve had. It is a longing for a different history, not him. I want to re-write my early life,
Monte, this point really hits home for me. It helps to separate my feelings regarding T and how it is interwoven with the regret and loss of a past that I should have had. It also points out how we would like our T's to fix things... to rewrite our past history.
I don't know if we ever get past totally all the grief and pain. I am certainly not even approaching that yet after 6 years of therapy. Of course, I was derailed a few years by the trauma with oldT. But people say you can work through this and get to much better place where if some grief does arise you can handle it much better.
Either way ... doing therapy and walking through the pain or doing nothing and living with the unending pain and grief and using all your energy to suppress and control it... there will be pain and hard work and it won't be easy. But like Eliza says... at least we will have our Ts to walk through it with us. And that will likely make all the difference.
TN
quote:Originally posted by True North:
Monte, this point really hits home for me. It helps to separate my feelings regarding T and how it is interwoven with the regret and loss of a past that I should have had.
TN
that's exactly it - if we weren't feeling these things towards our T, there would be others in our lives along the way that trigger the EXACT same pain - but in those cases, the other person wouldn't be a trained professional with technics and laws in place to ensure we aren't harmed further...
So - the potential for even more pain when it's not a therapist that triggers it in us.
(Speaking from experience here)
Oh man! I just typed up a long response and then lost it by doing something really thoughtless.
I have to calm down and then I'll try to see if I can recreate it.
Monte...
Thank you!
I would have been better off w/ a Christian PSYD.
Our differences ultimately brought me to a stand still.
I told him that I needed to shift my dependence to my God... where it belongs.
Without his help or understanding (and no blame, I found that he could understand) quitting was my only solution.
Not preaching... just sharing my heart.
Thank you!
I would have been better off w/ a Christian PSYD.
Our differences ultimately brought me to a stand still.
I told him that I needed to shift my dependence to my God... where it belongs.
Without his help or understanding (and no blame, I found that he could understand) quitting was my only solution.
Not preaching... just sharing my heart.
... couldn't understand ...
My angle on it is this: It depends on what stage of therapy you're in. I just let go of my street-wise, stone wall resistance and am able to admit my transference dependency on T. Which itself is scary as h*@ll. But she has the knowledge and feelings, and uses the Balint and Winnicott psychodynamic therapy.
I find my regression is way back to 1 yr. old. I've had several therapies before that never got to this level and were an agonizing flop. I think it's important to know what kind of therapy your T follows and read up on it.
This time I'm determined to work through the regression so that I can come out a truly normal person who isn't afraid to love someone. It's frightening, yeah, but living my life all messed up is even worse. I've already achieved more than any other therapy has done.
I find my regression is way back to 1 yr. old. I've had several therapies before that never got to this level and were an agonizing flop. I think it's important to know what kind of therapy your T follows and read up on it.
This time I'm determined to work through the regression so that I can come out a truly normal person who isn't afraid to love someone. It's frightening, yeah, but living my life all messed up is even worse. I've already achieved more than any other therapy has done.
((((MONTE))) (((ELIZA))) (((TN))) (((MAYO))) ((((SUMMER))))((((SKYLYNX))))
I'm sorry it took me so long to get back here.
I love the way you phrased that as an age-appropriate version of …. but it hasn't been the panacea I thought it would be. For me, sometimes I almost wish I didn't know what I missed out on because it's just way to painful to know it existed and that some people got it but that I didn't and really never can have it again. To have felt loved and accepted for who I was and to think of how much pain that alone would have spared me is just way too painful to think about after all the years of carrying all this baggage.
Sometimes I miss my T so much, I miss the closeness and the warmth and I want to go see him but then I remember that the relationship was pathological. I actually have to remind myself, "no, this relationship was bad for you." I feel sad that I can't even tell when a relationship is healthy and when it's not, that I could love someone who doesn't love me. When will the nightmare end? I wonder if I will ever be able to tell the difference between people who like me and people who don't or when I am appreciated and wanted and when I am not. I don't have a rudder now to use.
Eliza, that's a good point about having someone to walk with you. That seems like an important piece here. I didn't want to live before therapy although that was because I wasn't letting myself feel anything at all and couldn't see the point. At least now, even though it's painful, I don't feel like I don't want to live - for the most part.
Summer, I'm so glad the pain isn't nearly as bad as it was. I guess the stress must have an effect on our ability to cope with the pain.
Mayo, I'm sorry that it is all still so difficult for you and you still miss your therapist quite a lot. It has to be incredibly hard. Life sucks sometimes. No, I'm sorry. Life sucks often.
Skylynx, I'm so glad that you've achieved so much in your current therapy. It feels great when someone is able to get through to us. I agree with you about being knowledgeable, etc., about therapy and the process. It's a very important piece of it in terms of empowerment. My last T didn't do any psychoeducation at all which I've read is really important to do. It's no wonder I idealized him as I felt like he was the one with the degrees and the knowledge. It was only when I educated myself through PsychCafe and other readings that I found he didn't really always know what he was doing.
I'm sorry it took me so long to get back here.
quote:It has been eye-opening to realize that I have received an ‘age-appropriate version’ of this much longed for relationship in the here-and-now, but it hasn’t been the panacea I thought it would be.
I love the way you phrased that as an age-appropriate version of …. but it hasn't been the panacea I thought it would be. For me, sometimes I almost wish I didn't know what I missed out on because it's just way to painful to know it existed and that some people got it but that I didn't and really never can have it again. To have felt loved and accepted for who I was and to think of how much pain that alone would have spared me is just way too painful to think about after all the years of carrying all this baggage.
Sometimes I miss my T so much, I miss the closeness and the warmth and I want to go see him but then I remember that the relationship was pathological. I actually have to remind myself, "no, this relationship was bad for you." I feel sad that I can't even tell when a relationship is healthy and when it's not, that I could love someone who doesn't love me. When will the nightmare end? I wonder if I will ever be able to tell the difference between people who like me and people who don't or when I am appreciated and wanted and when I am not. I don't have a rudder now to use.
Eliza, that's a good point about having someone to walk with you. That seems like an important piece here. I didn't want to live before therapy although that was because I wasn't letting myself feel anything at all and couldn't see the point. At least now, even though it's painful, I don't feel like I don't want to live - for the most part.
Summer, I'm so glad the pain isn't nearly as bad as it was. I guess the stress must have an effect on our ability to cope with the pain.
Mayo, I'm sorry that it is all still so difficult for you and you still miss your therapist quite a lot. It has to be incredibly hard. Life sucks sometimes. No, I'm sorry. Life sucks often.
Skylynx, I'm so glad that you've achieved so much in your current therapy. It feels great when someone is able to get through to us. I agree with you about being knowledgeable, etc., about therapy and the process. It's a very important piece of it in terms of empowerment. My last T didn't do any psychoeducation at all which I've read is really important to do. It's no wonder I idealized him as I felt like he was the one with the degrees and the knowledge. It was only when I educated myself through PsychCafe and other readings that I found he didn't really always know what he was doing.
((((SUMMER))))
Thanks. I would love to get through this and be able to trust again but I don't think that will ever happen. I can't imagine it but maybe I will be surprised.
Thanks. I would love to get through this and be able to trust again but I don't think that will ever happen. I can't imagine it but maybe I will be surprised.
Monte, I really, really like your reply, including the spiritual part!
((((PASSIONFRUIT))))
I can't tell you how happy I am to hear how much you have learned and healed within your relationship with T2. Forgive me if you have already mentioned how you came across T2 but can you tell me how she came into your life?
I had a similar experience with Dr. Sue Elkind stepping in as T2 when I was having trouble with T1. Having her support in the middle of all the pain was incredibly healing. I'm 100% convinced that working with her sped my therapy up in a way that working only with my old therapist couldn't. Sometimes I think that all T's should make us see another therapist when our main therapist is on break. It seems cruel to have to tolerate breaks when we have become so emotionally dependent upon them. I probably would have kicked and screamed if my T had suggested that during his vacations or even made it mandatory but seeing how much it helped you and me, I'm starting to think otherwise. It's like you can't get past the pain because you know they are coming back and you get stuck in limbo land.
Sorry about the hives. I hope they clear up soon.
I can't tell you how happy I am to hear how much you have learned and healed within your relationship with T2. Forgive me if you have already mentioned how you came across T2 but can you tell me how she came into your life?
I had a similar experience with Dr. Sue Elkind stepping in as T2 when I was having trouble with T1. Having her support in the middle of all the pain was incredibly healing. I'm 100% convinced that working with her sped my therapy up in a way that working only with my old therapist couldn't. Sometimes I think that all T's should make us see another therapist when our main therapist is on break. It seems cruel to have to tolerate breaks when we have become so emotionally dependent upon them. I probably would have kicked and screamed if my T had suggested that during his vacations or even made it mandatory but seeing how much it helped you and me, I'm starting to think otherwise. It's like you can't get past the pain because you know they are coming back and you get stuck in limbo land.
Sorry about the hives. I hope they clear up soon.
and P.S., if you don't mind sharing, please come back and tell me how the work around the boundaries and the dependency issues go.
Hi Liese,
Thanks for the hug!! I really appreciate it!
I've never mentioned how I found T2 on the forums. I read a book 10 yrs ago - The Wounded Heart by Dan Allender. That book has been life changing for me and unfortunately a constant resource because I need to refer to it so often. Long story short, Dan Allender started a graduate school. I so resonate with his process of healing, I called the school to see if I could get a list of their alumni therapists who practice in my area. I found several, but T2 was directly trained under Dan Allender, so that's why I chose her.
T1 did not suggest seeing T2. He thought I should have a back-up person in case of emergencies, but he didn't recommend I see someone regularly while he is gone. Seeing T2 was my decision, but I'm glad.
Back in February T1 and I were at a bump we could not get over. We were both so frustrated. He recommended at that time that I see someone else. That's actually when I found T2. But when he recommended it, I kicked and screamed and pouted and all the lovely things a toddler does when they're upset. But that was probably the best thing I did. I only needed to see her once and it completely changed the following sessions with T1.
Seeing a back-up T has been so helpful for me. It's very difficult to have a relationship in such a short amount of time, but I don't think I would have been very functional without seeing her. I am so incredibly dependent on T1 I would have been a total wreck.
I'll update you on T2's thoughts on the therapeutic boundaries and my disdain for my dependency T1. She said she completely understands how I feel and that's how she felt about her T. So I'm looking forward to her insight.
I hope you have been able to have some relief with the pain caused by your relationship with your T.
PassionFruit
Thanks for the hug!! I really appreciate it!
I've never mentioned how I found T2 on the forums. I read a book 10 yrs ago - The Wounded Heart by Dan Allender. That book has been life changing for me and unfortunately a constant resource because I need to refer to it so often. Long story short, Dan Allender started a graduate school. I so resonate with his process of healing, I called the school to see if I could get a list of their alumni therapists who practice in my area. I found several, but T2 was directly trained under Dan Allender, so that's why I chose her.
T1 did not suggest seeing T2. He thought I should have a back-up person in case of emergencies, but he didn't recommend I see someone regularly while he is gone. Seeing T2 was my decision, but I'm glad.
Back in February T1 and I were at a bump we could not get over. We were both so frustrated. He recommended at that time that I see someone else. That's actually when I found T2. But when he recommended it, I kicked and screamed and pouted and all the lovely things a toddler does when they're upset. But that was probably the best thing I did. I only needed to see her once and it completely changed the following sessions with T1.
Seeing a back-up T has been so helpful for me. It's very difficult to have a relationship in such a short amount of time, but I don't think I would have been very functional without seeing her. I am so incredibly dependent on T1 I would have been a total wreck.
I'll update you on T2's thoughts on the therapeutic boundaries and my disdain for my dependency T1. She said she completely understands how I feel and that's how she felt about her T. So I'm looking forward to her insight.
I hope you have been able to have some relief with the pain caused by your relationship with your T.
PassionFruit
((((PASSIONFRUIT))))
I love your story. I agree with you about the benefit of seeing someone else during the therapeutic gaps, like someone else you can develop a relationship with, maybe not weekly but someone who knows you that you can have as a backup. I've found that it helped me enormously when I was having difficulty with my T. On the one hand, some of them discourage dependency but on the other hand, they encourage it by insisting that a person can only see one T. It sure puts us in a tough spot!!!
I'm going to check that Dan guy out. They all sound amazing!!!!! And so do you!
I love your story. I agree with you about the benefit of seeing someone else during the therapeutic gaps, like someone else you can develop a relationship with, maybe not weekly but someone who knows you that you can have as a backup. I've found that it helped me enormously when I was having difficulty with my T. On the one hand, some of them discourage dependency but on the other hand, they encourage it by insisting that a person can only see one T. It sure puts us in a tough spot!!!
I'm going to check that Dan guy out. They all sound amazing!!!!! And so do you!
Oh, and P.S., if you want to share about the bump you went through with your T that T2 helped you out with, I'd love to hear about it. Of course, only if you want to share.
Can so relate to this. Ugh dependence, attachment, longing, the pain. Thanks for having the courage to discuss.