number 9 I'm not sure where you are going with this. You say you only talk to your T on the phone but have you seen him? You say he's attractive so I'm guessing it's a video call??

I like to dress nicely and I see my T on my lunch hour from work so I'm dressed in business type clothing (no jeans or sweats) and wear make up and jewelry to sessions. My T often tells me I look nice or he likes my blouse and he always teases me about my varied collection of high heel shoes. I think he does it because he wants me to understand that he "sees" me. I don't take it as him being seductive or flirting or anything as he has good boundaries and does not hug. It's sort of a way of connecting I guess. At first it alarmed me but now it's just nice to get a compliment from someone who is important to me.

TN

Thanks TN!

He has only seen photos of me, and not my best photos. I'm self-conscious about Skype- always catches one with eyes closed and mouth open. NOT very attractive at all.

Only recently have I cared about this, and it alarms me. But your message helped. It is nice to get compliments. He tells you you look nice! Awesome!

I suppose the fact that my T is attractive and I am reasonably so does make it more complex, but well, there it is, it is what it is. His opinion does matter to me.

One day we will meet, and I would love for it to be relaxed meeting where there is eye contact, and I am seen, the same way your T sees you!

Thanks so much!

number9 -

Ugh, I'll take ANY COMPLIMENT over "you look tired" which is what I hear from my Ts a lot. I show up yoga clothes because I work from home when I go to my sessions and I'd never wear jeans if I didn't have to (I'm super sensitive basically if it's not loose and cotton I want nothing to do with it). The couple times I have had to go in work clothes my Ts will say I look nice. My Ts compliment my hair, or socks, or shoes a lot. And... I mean... I do like those things I'm okay being seen in that way. My Ts are female, and so am I so I don't usually take it as a nod toward my attractiveness. I once had a long time friend attend session and we got on a topic about weight somehow in session and we did what friends do ("you're so pretty, I'm ugly, etc" ... because it's true my friend is probably the most beautiful person ever and she thinks I am too) and my T interrupted us and said "Here, let me help you... you're BOTH pretty' (you can tell she's had a couple of kids, huh? ). I have a lot of weight/body image issues even though I am a reasonably attractive person so I think my Ts make an effort not to comment on me as a 'whole' or anything that I could loosely derive a comment about my weight from.

I think your T brought up your childhood when talking about your self-esteem maybe to see where the issue stemmed from? He doesn't sound CBT or he'd have given you skills to stop thinking like that rather than explore your past So maybe it wasn't a deflection but a way to get to the root of the issue? Of COURSE I think you should bring it up. Therapy is all about cans of worms

hi Catalyst!

I'm like you- I like to wear yoga clothes. It's actually how I dress for work- teaching fitness classes, doing bodywork, etc. It is hard, the weight thing. I am very self-conscious... hazard of the job I'm in.

So glad he told you that you were pretty. I wish mine would just do that.

quote:

I think your T brought up your childhood when talking about your self-esteem maybe to see where the issue stemmed from? He doesn't sound CBT or he'd have given you skills to stop thinking like that rather than explore your past So maybe it wasn't a deflection but a way to get to the root of the issue? Of COURSE I think you should bring it up. Therapy is all about cans of worms

I am grateful he's not CBT, and yes, there is probably something in this about my childhood, but also about the present, and my fear of the future. He's good that way, addresses it all.

I did open the can of worms. The only way I could ask him to acknowledge me (that I could think of in the moment) was to ask point blank if he found me attractive. Since it was so direct, I don't see it as manipulative, but then again, asking a guy a question like this puts them on the spot. He hesitated. I asked "Yes, or no, am I attractive"? He said "You look like you" I asked again, and he said yes. Later he said, you are "no raving beauty" but you are attractive.

This hurt, a lot. I later found out that he meant simply that I wasn't a supermodel type, but attractive. Some men have literally told me that I'm hot. I have an athletic body, but there are parts of me I'm self conscious about, and I take AWFUL photos! So yes, he is correct in a way, but he's not very skilled in what to say to a woman, apparently!

Although was trying so hard to be appropriate"- he just ended up putting his foot in his mouth, but I ended up projecting, (I heard "not a raving beauty=ugly) and I was THAT woman, asking for honesty, but wanting a white lie.. eh. yeah, the can was opened.

I really wish he would have just said "you look good!" or yes, you ARE pretty/attractive. So simple. It's not inappropriate? Because the evasion of the question feels worse.

I am so close to deleting this. Maybe this will help women that are self-conscious about their bodies.. weight, aging, etc, so I'll take the chance. And yes, I'm sure there is a touch of transference here, (How do I appear to an attractive man my age? ) but it's more of a self-esteem issue.

Hope you are all well, and thank you!

number9 -

Oooooh I didn't realize you asked him directly if he found you attractive!

It took me a good 10 minutes to find my jaw on the floor after I read what he said next #1 that he answered as to his thoughts on if you were attractive or not then #2 said "You're not raving beauty"!? WTF!! No wonder you felt hurt... oh gosh. I really don't think it was appropriate for him to answer the question at all - from a care perspective I would hope he would want to address the feelings not give you an answer especially to something very subjective, sensitive and personal.

I can very much see how this lead to your projecting and stuff. Did you talk about THOSE feelings? Because those are the worms, I think.

oh number 9... now that I'm thinking of it we had a conversation about a month ago which I did not journal because it was so difficult. We were talking about how he sees me and how I see me and what my mom used to say to me and he told me that I looked pretty. He said (about my dressing nicely) that if I was trying to look pretty I was succeeding and when I said nothing he again said that I looked pretty. To me that does not mean that he said I AM pretty. It was an uncomfortable conversation and I don't even remember much of it.

I wonder if you are wanting his approval from an attachment stance. He has become important to you and you are becoming attached and so you value his opinion of you. I do imagine he was put on the spot and having only seen a picture of you it would be hard for him to say. Some people are beautiful to us because we see the "whole" of them not just a one dimensional photo and so that will have to wait until you meet in person one day.

I wonder if you are confusing sexualizing the relationship vs. the attachment needs. It may be a good conversation to have with him if he understands attachment.

I was very attracted to my oldT immediately but it was less of a sexual need and more of a desire for his nurturing... it was more parental than anything else and when I began to understand more about attachment it made a lot of sense.

Glad I could help.

TN

Edited to add: I do think his response was out of line as Cat pointed out and I think he should have directed the conversation back to why you needed to know this and what it meant to you and where the feelings came from, etc and not say what he did.

I know, I probably pushed it too far.

I just wish that he would have said "You look nice" at some point. That would have been so nice. So simple.

Our style tends to be more direct. I think you are right, there is projecting going on here on my part. It may be good for me to see this in myself and I'm almost glad it was brought up, oddly.

TN:

I am reading your entire message, and yes, this could be the case. I am attached to him. It is confusing because I don't have a tendency to get into sexual relationships to gain approval or sense of myself. I get that from my athletic accomplishments and my work. So yes, maybe that's it.

But part of it is just getting older, being a single woman. I'm feeling it acutely. It feels like a loss to me.

What a double-whammy. Thanks so much, I love your insights TN!

quote:

I know, I probably pushed it too far.

I don't think that's really up to you to control my dear I think we should be able to ask anything we want in therapy but it's your T who has to respond to it in a way that is clinically appropriate.

My style is very direct too, so are my Ts but... ugh believe me I've tried everything under the SUN sometimes to get personal opinions out of them... and they won't

It would be easy if he just said "You look nice"! I very much wish my Ts would tell me what I want to hear!

Anyway... I really do think how you feel about the comments he made will be good to bring up. Self-esteem issues are so difficult... it's hugely central to my work in therapy right now

TN: Yes, there is a difference:

AM I pretty, or do I LOOK pretty? So much to think about. Especially after not thinking about this for so long.

AND you said something very soothing: He has not seen the WHOLE of me from a photo. How I move, how I look in 3D, my facial expressions, etc. I do look better in person.

I vary in my clothing when I go to my sessions. Sometimes I'll have those days when I feel like dressin up a little, sort of like dressy but still casual. Other days I'm totally casual and others (like during the last couple of weeks of the fall semester when I was runnin on fumes) I'll be in total lazy day attire, like sweats or basketball shorts when the weather is warmer. Whatever I wear, whether I look liked I crawl out of bed or actually took the time to get myself ready, my T always compliments something about my appearance. I love that. She makes me feel so special and it boosts my self-confidence up more since I do struggle with those issues as well. I can look like a complete slob (clothes wise) but she'll still find something about my hair or make up to compliment me on. One time, I had a 9am session during finals week last semester. I had only gotten about 3 maybe 2 hours of sleep and I was in no mood to impress anyone. I threw on some sweats and a hoodie, put on a little bit of make up for everyone else's sake lol. Even then, I still had bags under my eyes and was falling asleep in the waiting room haha. But, my wonderful T still found something about me to compliment. I right away apologized for the way I looked and explained I had only gotten a few hours of sleep which was why I looked like a total slob. She wouldn't hear any of it and told me I looked refreshed and relaxed and she wished she could come to work looking as comfortable as I did

Today in session, she gave me more than the usual compliments. It made me feel good since I actually took the time to look "cute" haha. Overall, I think it just depends on the type of T one has, male or female as well. I feel like females are more complimentary in general and are more likely to compliment more on appearances, thats just how I see it. Some men are very complimentary, but I think especially with male Ts, they're a little more careful when it comes to giving compliments to their female patients, whether the patient sees it as something "sexual" or not. But then again, it all just comes down to the therapist/patient relationship. If the patient and T are fine with compliments, then by all means compliment away!

Last session was the first time T saw me with my haircut which was radically shorter than she had ever seen it before. I was going to wear a hat because it was too short and I didn't want her to judge me on it. But I braved it and kept the hat off.

I mentioned it to her, that I was thinking of wearing a hat blah blah. My T is the type of T who is extremely neutral. It wouldn't matter what I wore, what hairstyle I had, make-up, anything, she would mention nothing. She was surprised about my thoughts that I thought she was judging me which was nice in a way because it simply showed that she didn't give a fig for how I showed myself, it's who I was that mattered.

I don't think my T would ever compliment me on looks. For me this is okay. Maybe for another, perhaps not. I've relied on my looks to get me through and to feign confidence. I am reasonably good-looking but insecure with it. I've had a tendancy in the past to rely on my looks to feel accepted. So the fact that T says nothing at all about the way I look is quite refreshing for me. I feel that I can relax about that side of things.

What Jenny said...depends on the relationship. Each patient/therapist relationship is dynamically different to another. I prefer no compliments to ground me whereas someone else might need them My relationship with T is confusing because I cannot ascertain if I'm attracted to her in a sexual sense or not. It's still boggles me a bit so if she said something like 'you look good', my brain would probably spark off and say 'Seduce her! Impress her! Forget who you are, it's what you show!'

I am actually feeling quite hurt about his comment, even more than yesterday. I am getting tired of his tactless comments and will tell him so. He will probably make it all about me again, and that too, is starting to get old. The odds of him apologizing are slim- that is not something he typically does, and sometimes, that is what hurts the most.

I'm sorry your hurt by this hon. I reread what you wrote above. I don't think he should have put any negative spin on it i.e. the 'you are no raving beauty but you are attractive'. I do understand how this would have hurt.

I'm sorry, I'm not very adaptable with this topic because I have confusion about it within myself. Feel free to ignore what I say above.

I'm glad you are planning on telling him. Wish you luck number9. You'll be okay

No worries Forgetmenot- good to hear your perspective as well! You help me, and help clarify things related to physical appearance/attraction for me, you, and all of us. I hope all feel free to contribute in that regard.

It is interesting how one thing can manifest in so many different ways, and how it is something that seems superficial and insignificant, but is not.

and thank you for the encouragement!

quote:

Today in session, she gave me more than the usual compliments. It made me feel good since I actually took the time to look "cute" haha. Overall, I think it just depends on the type of T one has, male or female as well. I feel like females are more complimentary in general and are more likely to compliment more on appearances, thats just how I see it. Some men are very complimentary, but I think especially with male Ts, they're a little more careful when it comes to giving compliments to their female patients, whether the patient sees it as something "sexual" or not. But then again, it all just comes down to the therapist/patient relationship. If the patient and T are fine with compliments, then by all means compliment away!

Jennythediva:
That makes sense.

AG: Pondering your statement as well. Thanks so much for responding!

Echoes: Yes, you know how I feel about this. I am somewhat devastated. Oh well.

All: Sorting it out, I just feel heavy and depressed and numb and avoiding mirrors today. Sex or approval from men is not on my radar, nor do I think it will be for a long, long time.

Too much work to do, anyway.

This is very interesting. A good topic to get us pondering, thanks, Number9.

I have not asked my present T whether he thinks I look good. I am middle aged and getting a bit of middle age spread and yet feeling more comfortable in my body than anytime in my life. I wear almost a therapy uniform, I even change out of other clothes into it. It consists of:
jeans
t shirt
sweater or thick chunky cardigan if it is cold
I ALWAYS take my shoes off. I have never possessed high heels. I guess my yoga training makes me careful of my posture and feet.

I find myself thinking of wearing something more attractive looking to therapy, and have even tried but changed out at the last minute. Remember I have had a therapist sexually assault me so I am very very careful NOT to wear anything attractive looking. I guess, now I think about it - I dress like a child.

Gulp

My only concession to grown up ness, is that I wear ear rings and a necklace. I rarely wear make up but as I have past the fifty mark this year, I started to wear some very natural looking foundation.

It has just struck me, Number9, that I would need to warn him in advance if I started wearing lipstick, so that he knows that I am not doing it to look attractive for HIM, but because I want to feel more attractive in myself, it would be for myself, my own feeling around me.

Hummmm

I am obviously still wary of being misunderstood and being blamed for the consequences. Hummmm

I shall have to bring this up with him sometime, maybe tomorrow.

Thanks for this.

I did have a therapist (male) who openly complimented me on my appearance and clothing and I just loved it and he was very paternal to me.

I have not complimented him on his clothing either, but he occasionally wears really smart trousers and I want to say so, but he would look abashed a little I suspect.

I gave him two gold stars last week because he remembered to make sure there was a box of tissues and the cushions I bought for the room, were IN the room. He went pink and laughed.

Sadly,

Let me know how it goes. I did not know it was such a big deal for me until a few weeks ago.

I'm feeling more hurt and angry as time goes on.

number 9 - I did not dare to talk about this. I was - to be honest - rather preoccupied with other topics during my session and just could not find a moment where it would not seem a strange diversion. I shall ask him over the phone. It is easier.