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Hi all, it's me again (surprise!Big Grin)

So my mind is spinning again as usual, but on a more positive note this time, thank goodness! Here's the issue(s): In my big disclosure session where I read the 3-page letter to my T a couple sessions ago, my biggest fear was telling her about my Googling activity. Unfortunately it didn't get put out there like it needed to be (because I was literally terrified of what I feared her reaction would be) and all I really said was that I had searched stuff about her on the internet. She didn't react to it, and asked me nothing about it. I figured she must not have cared, so I "dropped it". Yeah, right. My mind doesn't know how to drop anything!!! She now knows that I know where she lives, and she knows that I have not driven by her home and that I don't intend to, and she seems okay with it, as she mentioned last session that if I needed to talk to her about an issue between sessions and she didn't have time while she was at the office, she would call me to discuss it during her 30 min. drive home to "_______". I feel like she is trusting me more or maybe feels like she knows me better now that I've opened up to her and been willing to be seen by her and been honest with my fears and feelings the last two sessions, despite my fears and the anxiety I've had. I'm in a much better place with her. However, I'm still stuck with the deep internal fear that was created from her withdrawn and fearful reaction to me telling her I was attached to her back in December, and the fact that she "doesn't remember" her reaction. Confused Seablue told me I need to keep bringing it up with her because it's coming from somewhere (me/her/combination of both of us?) and I agree. Until I resolve this I'm going to keep slamming into it on a daily basis, and it won't leave me alone. Until it gets resolved I don't feel I can actually be totally free with her, and I want to be free to be open. I want to trust her and not sit opposite her in fear of having to hold back my feelings and my responses to her questions because I worry that what I say will trigger her and will bring another response of rejection or cause her to withdraw from me again. I believe that if I get another response from her like that, I will literally fall apart. Frowner

In all reality, I think that admitting to her that I know her children's names, their spouses' names, where they all live, some of her grandchildren's names, where she grew up, her siblings' names, her parents' names, some of the places she has lived around the country as her husband went from job to job, etc., is going to be enough to literally freak her out and make her consider transferring me. Eeker In my letter I didn't actually tell her I had found out any information. All I actually said was that I had searched for information about her online. I don't think she feels threatened by my doing that searching because if you just simply put her name into the Google search box it doesn't bring up a whole lot of stuff on her, just professional stuff. I started into the personal stuff through sites like Intelius, where they give names of relatives. The scary part that I didn't want to tell her is that the information I have on her is stuff I came up with through some serious sleuthing. It's all 'legal' public info, although I admit that I did have to be a little sneaky through facebook and such. I think she feels safe on the internet and would be alarmed to know that there are ways that clients can find out who her kids are, see photos of them, and then get past the kids facebook photos to see what theirkids photos look like, etc. I know if I were in her profession, I would feel a bit threatened. Especially if I didn't know the person across from me enough to know their intentions, why they were doing this, etc. Eeker

So I'm wondering how to approach her on this. I know I HAVE to do it (because my mind won't let it go), but HOW is the question. When I went in last session, it was like I walked into a different office. I recognize now that it is the same office it was at our first session, I have just been in a protective bubble since that first session because she reacted negatively to me (or so I perceived) and I've been in self-protection mode, but I'm starting to come out of it as I've begun to open up and feel safer with her. She has a beautiful large stained glass piece of artwork hanging in front of one of her windows right above the couch I sit on that I had not really been aware of before; beautiful silk flowers in a vase I hadn't really noticed much before. Then I saw two pictures of her grandkids (whose names I now know) and they triggered the memory that I had seen those photos there before at that first session and I was so embarrassed that I knew their names, and how would my T feel if she knew that I knew those kids names, and their parents' names?!? That just sent me spinning. UGH!! I hate this attachment crap! Mad I have learned so much from this experience, and wish I had realized the importance of boundaries and how I could have spared myself all of this angst and grief and misery and anxiety and fear and lack of trust and blah, blah, blah!!! Never again will I go searching for stuff on a T. NEVER!!! I feel it has been damaging to how I view my T in some ways and messed with my head a lot.

Have I gone too far with this stuff? Does knowing these things create such a breach in the therapeutic relationship that true healing can't really happen? Can I get past the fear of my T's reaction to me and what it means about the future of our relationship? I really want to get this resolved but I'm so scared that revealing this stuff to her will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and that she won't be asking me if I want her to transfer me to another therapist, she'll be telling me she HAS TO transfer me. Frowner I'm so scared...

MTF
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Hi there MTF. I'm at work right now, so I can't respond in depth, but I wanted to point you to a thread that talks about my (and others) issues regarding the whole googling-your-t thing. Here it is- note, it starts to get into the googling stuff at the end of page one. I hope this helps for now, and i will try to repond more tonight! Here's a hug in the mean time though ((((((MTF)))))))

-CT
Hi MTF,
I totally get how you're feeling, and I hope it helps you to hear that I've done the same thing. I've never paid for info, but I've done some serious googling, including tax records, etc and have put together quite an extensive family tree for my therapist. There's a fair amount of info that he's talked about, he's not particularly reticient about family details, (just how he feels. Smiler) and keeps pictures of grandchildren in his office and is open about where he's going on vacations and that kind of thing BUT I do know a fair amount of stuff. I have talked to him about it (as a matter of fact if you to the beginning of the Struggling with Boundaries thread, I talk about telling my T about the googling. It is not uncommon for trauma victims to desperately want to know more about their therapists, because it is such a struggle for us to trust. My T was wonderfully understanding about it when I told him. He actually mentioned when we talked about it, people driving past his house or calling his home number and how he totally gets why someone would want to know more about him (I've never done either although I do have his home address and home number and have seen pictures of his house).

If you're not going to feel comfortable unless you discuss this, then I would talk to her again but I do want you to hear that I do not think what you did was all that unusual. But I'm sorry, I know it's really terrifying and very confusing. I've often gone out searching for more info to feel closer but it usually just leads to more pain because I see more of what I can't have.

AG
I think she'll be able to handle it (I hope), I just know that her husband's facebook account is totally private, and they're from the older generation that I think just respects others' privacy and expects the same in return. I just think after her "back-off" reaction to me telling her I had an attachment to her, I worry that this will give her a valid reason to think I'm a threat to her and she really will back off. No one wants a stalker on their hands. And I'm not a stalker, but how does she know that? I drove near her house the other night, testing myself to see if I could really resist, and I did. I don't want to break boundaries. I hate them, but I love them. They keep me safe. Her home is her private sanctuary and I don't want her to feel that I want to intrude on that sacred space that is hers alone. I just hope she doesn't feel that I've gone too far and that knowing stuff about her kids and especially about her son that had an alcohol problem is damaging to our relationship and cause for her to need to transfer me. I agree AG that the more I know the more pain it has caused because I then long to know more and want to be a part of her life even more.
MTF, unless your T has been living in the Google Opt-Out Village the last few years, she is well aware of the privacy concerns of facebook and all the stuff one can find on the internet about a person. There are even special seminars/conferences for shrinks to learn how to protect their privacy. Most likely, it sounds like she has come to a place of acceptance about what she can and cannot control in regards to privacy. She can keep her own facebook account private, and ask her family to do the same, but that doesn't mean they will. The fact that she has pictures of her grandkids in her office is a good indication that she's not paranoid about the issue.

It's not what you know about her that is the problem. I don't think she'd be alarmed by it. It's how it makes YOU feel that is the issue. So if you want to bring it up in order to work out why it makes you feel so awful (guilt over invading her privacy, sadness that you'll never be part of her life that way, etc.) that's a good plan. But I wouldn't make the focus of the discussion the specific things you know. Unless of course she asks.

I think I really understand what you're going through. I did pretty much the same thing with the googling. It just made me feel icky. Like I am a total creep. But then on the other hand, my P talked about his family a lot (relative to other shrinks I've seen), so it's not like I got a lot of "new" info from my nosing around.

Worse for me was when I found out we have a mutual acquaintance, and that person told me (unsolicited!) juicy gossip about him. I'm still reeling from that... and dying to know if it's true. But I don't dare ask. How rude would that be?
quote:
CT: That photo you've got for your avatar is adorable! Is that YOU? CUTE!!


Thanks. Yes, it is me when I was about 9 months old (i think). I've been wanting to change my pic on here for a while, and I liked Helle's idea of using a personal pic as a way to think more of her 'childlike' self. Plus- and you can't see it in the cropped version- but I guess I had been crawling for a while because my hair is sticking STRAIGHT up. It's pretty hysterical!

Big Grin

-CT
CT,
How incredibly cute!! And even at nine months I can just see that mischievious sense of humor on your face. Big Grin

MTF,
I agree with what Monte said, which reminded me of something my T told me. I told him about the googling after I found a blog his daughter-in-law was writing about her daughter, my Ts first grandchild. He told me that his son and DIL put it on the web knowing that anyone could see it. As Monte put it, he's made his peace with the internet and the limits of privacy. And I know I really didn't learn that much on the blog that I didn't also hear from my T.

AG
Sorry to borrow your thread here MTF, but I just HAVE to post this whole pic here cuz I think you guys will get a kick out of my hair... see what I mean?!? And AG... mischevious? me? NEVER!!!

MTF- I'm glad you found some comfort in the thread I linked to. I hope your t will be able to understand and react wonderfully. You deserve to be heard regardless of what you should have/shouldn't have done. Part of therapy is working THROUGH these types of things, and realizing that we can heal/still be accepted. Keep us informed, k?

-CT

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SB:

As Monte would say, I'm sitting here 'crapping my dacks'! Oh my freaking heck!!!!!!! Now I'm about ready to delete my FB account. OMH. I have always wondered why people I don't have anything to do with anymore pop up on the sidebar as friend suggestions. Never even crossed my mind that it was because they had been searching me. I mentioned FB at my session the other day and this sort of strange something flitted across my T's eyes. Now I'm freaked that she's seen my face pop up on the sidebar of her page because one day you could see the people that were on her friends list (it was just her kids, and her husband is the one whose name their account is under) and then the next time I went there they had fixed it so you couldn't see their friends list anymore. Oh I am so ashamed of myself. Now I don't know if I can even face her again. What will she think of me, or what does she already think of me???? Now I am REALLY FREAKED OUT!!! AT first I laughed at the beginning of your post, SB (because I could identify with all of it myself), but I am not laughing anymore. Frowner This is scary stuff, huh? Why do we do this to ourselves? I am so miserable now... Ugh... Glad you can find the humor in all of it, AG.
MTF,
I joke, but forgive me, I know how scary it can be. When I decided to tell my T, I think it was the scariest thing I've ever done. It was worse than telling him I felt attracted to him because I was really sure that this time I had crossed a line and he was going to tell me that he was going to have to refer me out this time. I could barely drive to the appt and I was shaking from head to toe when I told him. In fact, I couldn't even talk for the first few mintues of the appt. It's a lot easier for me to joke now because I'm on the other side of it. There wasn't anything funny about it at the time.

AG
CT, you were so sweet and adorable! (I'm sure you still are Smiler Big Grin ) I just don't understand how could somebody not love enough or hurt this cute child...

MTF,
About the facebook list of friends suggestions, I think it is a "selection" of people that your facebook friends have as their friends rather then any profile visitors. I'm nearly sure about that, so hopefully that will calm you down a little bit. I think that's were the suggested friends come from. I think if your T has a facebookg profile she must be aware of her clients visitors.

I only recently asked my T what his surname is. I didn't even know that, but I was curious for some time now. There is nothing about him on the web, no facebook profile, so I am rather happy about that. I'm even glad he doesn't have a facebook account (or a hidden one), I'm curious, but I would not want to know anything about his family. It's painful enough to know he has a family.
SB and AG:

Don't be sorry, ladies. It's my own fault that I feel freaked out by all of this, as I shouldn't have been putting my nose where it didn't belong if I wasn't willing to own up to the fact that I was doing it in the first place. I often wonder how I manage to get myself into these messes and then later freak out that I have done so without stopping before acting to consider the consequences of the action. Hmmm. Did that make sense? Big Grin

Amazon:

Thanks for bringing that up here about it likely being a selection of our friend's friends that are being suggested to us. It makes more sense, and definitely calms me down! Wink Also, be thankful that you don't have access to a bunch of info about your T--it really is a blessing! Look at those of us that do and what a mess we're in! Red Face Not something I would wish on anyone!! Same goes for you, Starfish!!

And I agree with you Amazon and Starfish. It's sad to think about any of us as babies and children that were (and still are!) beautiful and innocent, yet were harmed, abused, neglected, abandoned, etc. May we all find the healing and happiness we deserve!!

MTF
MTF
quote:
Also, be thankful that you don't have access to a bunch of info about your T--it really is a blessing! Look at those of us that do and what a mess we're in! Not something I would wish on anyone!! Same goes for you, Starfish!!


Ahhhhhh...I knew that had to be one good thing that would come out of my having crummy computer skills!! Big Grin Big Grin

Actually I know I am in the minority because I luckily don't have the same transference issues, so I probably wouldn't FB her even if I could. I don't think it would help my knowing any personal details, I think I would feel as if I had intruded on something that wasn't relevant to our work together or any of my business somehow. I don't mean that to sound self-righteous in anyway at all Eeker I guess all relationships are different and please know there are really PLENTY of other things I do battle with Big Grin

starfish
Starfish I think I must be one of the lucky ones too - not only don’t I look for any info on my T (except when I was ‘vetting’ him to see if I wanted him for a therapist) I actually don’t want to know ANYTHING AT ALL about him. It suits me better that he remains an unknown quantity to me, so I can maintain an image of him as the ‘good therapist’ without his being an imperfect human being getting too much in the way. I think it’s because if I get to know anything personal about him, I’ll immediately fall into my ‘having to think of everyone else’ mode where I’ll be endlessly considering the effect of what I say on him, and will make excuses for things he says and does that upset me or affect me negatively instead of confronting him about them, and that will really get in the way of me focusing exclusively on me and my feelings. I actually don’t want a ‘proper’ relationship with him, therapist and client suits me just fine!

(Now I wonder if that’s avoidance...hmm)

From what I’ve read of other posts on here, the whole looking for info on our T’s seems pretty standard - and that most T’s are unfazed by it. So MTF I’m going to say the obvious - take your heart in your hands and talk about it, chances are it will only make your relationship stronger and not wreck it as you fear. (But big hug from me for support all the same!)

Afterthought - if she has photos of her grandkids in full view of clients, then she doesn’t strike me as someone who is going to be judgemental of someone wanting to know more about her - she’s already effectively given personal info about herself simply by having those photos there.
Seablue - FB may be accessing your email contacts, and that's why you are getting these "friend suggestions". Not because you searched them. But then, who knows. I don't trust FB at all. Because of their privacy setting snafu this last summer, I now know my P's birthdate. (Not that it matters - what am I going to do with that? Check his horoscope? Oooohhh dangerous. Wink )

quote:
I also know that you can block people so even if they search for you, you won't come up so makes sense that you would also not appear as a suggested friend. The problem with that is you can't search for them either.


Wellll.... You can block a person but still search them, if you have another account under a different name. *sheepish look* I think this must be why Ts don't bother blocking their patients - there's always a way around it.
Oh echo - you are so smart! Big Grin

Most people who are suggested as FB friends to you appear from friends of friends or network connections. I have heard about friends being suggested through your email contacts also, and was really really hoping that was the case in my situation. But, I have also read (because I have done a lot of checking into it)that your email contacts can only be accessed by FB if you have the same password for FB and email - which I don't. I would really prefer to just believe that is how it happened though, so let me be in denial please. Roll Eyes
Seablue - FB definitely makes suggestions on the basis of your email contacts. Not sure about the limits of their accessing them, but I remember at some point being asked on joining whether they could check email contacts to make friend suggestions, so I assumed that was the access point. Perhaps if you are in someone else's contacts they suggest to you too. I would be extremely surprised if it's based on searches.

J
First of all,

Monte,

quote:
I wouldn't post a baby pic of me even if I was paid...I had NO hair until I was over 2!!


Awww, I bet you were adorable regardless! I'll pay for a pic!?!?

And secondly, all,

quote:
Baby photos get me though...you just look at them and think how at that tender age we are such a clean slate. If only we could go back to that place and start again. Sigh.


....

quote:
CT, you were so sweet and adorable! (I'm sure you still are ) I just don't understand how could somebody not love enough or hurt this cute child..


....

quote:
But how sad and true and very very moving was your observation that some people could actually hurt a beautiful innocent child like CT. It really really doesn't bear thinking about.


....

quote:
And I agree with you Amazon and Starfish. It's sad to think about any of us as babies and children that were (and still are!) beautiful and innocent, yet were harmed, abused, neglected, abandoned, etc. May we all find the healing and happiness we deserve!!


I didn't know my pic would get such a reaction here! FYI- I may have made an attractive baby, but don't be fooled! That was twenty some odd years ago... THINGS HAVE CHANGED!!!!

It's hard for me to look at old pics... I wonder sometimes- not so much anymore, but I used to- what did my mother think when she looked at me? What did she see that made her think "oh, she's crying again... I think I'll just leave..." What was is about ME that repulsed her or disgusted her? But i guess these days I believe that she just flat out COULDN'T see me. She couldn't see beyond herself.... I could have been the most engaging baby ever, but she still wouldn't have seen me, not really. On some levels that hurts even more, but at least it makes it about her and not me. After all, is there ever anything a baby can do that would make him or her unlovable?

BB-

quote:
I don't have any pictures of me when I was a kid, so I guess I do not have to worry about that decision!


I used to wish that I didn't have any pics of me, but I think I'm grateful for them now. Do you know what you looked like as a baby? Have you ever seen a picture of yourself as a child?

Echo (and other facebook e-stalkers Wink)-
quote:
Wellll.... You can block a person but still search them, if you have another account under a different name. *sheepish look* I think this must be why Ts don't bother blocking their patients - there's always a way around it.


Been there, done that, given that same sheepish look!!!! Is it wrong that part of me wants to high five you for posting this?!?!? lol it's true though, there's always a loophole, and the way i figure it, if i show up on my t's suggested friends list, I'm pretty confident she will have NO CLUE how I ended up there, and will probably think it has something to do with HER account, not mine! Smiler

-CT
quote:
Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
I didn't know my pic would get such a reaction here! FYI- I may have made an attractive baby, but don't be fooled! That was twenty some odd years ago... THINGS HAVE CHANGED!!!!


Don't sell yourself short, CT!! I'm sure you're beautiful. We all are!! We have just become our own worst critics and judges. So sad, too.

quote:
It's hard for me to look at old pics... I wonder sometimes- not so much anymore, but I used to- what did my mother think when she looked at me? What did she see that made her think "oh, she's crying again... I think I'll just leave..." What was is about ME that repulsed her or disgusted her? But I guess these days I believe that she just flat out COULDN'T see me. She couldn't see beyond herself.... I could have been the most engaging baby ever, but she still wouldn't have seen me, not really. On some levels that hurts even more, but at least it makes it about her and not me. After all, is there ever anything a baby can do that would make him or her unlovable?


Wow. I've been only just coming to grips with the emotional deprivation I suffered as an infant and young child (well, all my childhood, really) at the hands of an emotionally unavailable mother. It hurts a lot, and I've asked myself those same sorts of questions. I'm coming to terms with the fact that it's her issue, not mine, because as you so clearly point out in your question, there really is nothing a baby can do to make him/her self unlovable. Thanks CT. Smiler


quote:
Been there, done that, given that same sheepish look!!!! Is it wrong that part of me wants to high five you for posting this?!?!? lol it's true though, there's always a loophole



This whole FB thing is bugging me. Guilt all over the place. *STILL*. I actually got to the pictures of my Ts family through one of her kid's walls where there was a link to a photo on one of her other kid's pages (that I wouldn't have access to otherwise) that they had commented on. Example: John Doe (T's son) commented on Sam Simple's (T's son-in-law) photo (of T's baby grandson). Through clicking on the link to the photo that her son had commented on I was taken to her son-in-law's photo of her grandson, and in that album were other photos of her other grandson, her daughter and son-in-law, her kitchen where baby grandson was in a highchair eating his birthday cake, a shot with her and her daughter in it (although you can't see their heads, just parts of them sitting on a sofa), and some of her daughter and family on a vacation. I also got access to photos of her other daughter through similar means. This is why it feels so wrong to me. These people don't have their photo settings set so that they're available to the public to look at, but I accessed them through searching their wall posts until I found a link to where either they or one of their friends commented on one of their photos. So I don't feel like what I did was totally 'legal'. Frowner I only got access to the photos through a loophole, really. That's why I feel like I'm a 'stalker', not just innocently searching legal stuff. It feels so bad, so icky and wrong. I guess that's why I am afraid of what my T is going to think.

It's so ironic to me that when I wrote my letter to her a few weeks ago and was so distressed about laying it all out to her and finding out her reaction to my internet searching and stuff, that I didn't even really put that part of my issues out there!! All I said was that I had searched stuff about her online and that was it. DUH!! That was the big deal I was most worried about and the reaction I really needed and wanted to see so that I knew for sure, WITHOUT A DOUBT, where I stood with her. AND I DIDN'T EVEN GET THAT PART OUT THERE THEN!!! Mad Where was my brain when I needed it? It was scared stupid, hiding in it's protective bubble, oblivious to the fact that until this crap hits the fan and gets completely worked out and I really see her reaction, whatever it may be--ugly and painful, or accepting and helpful--I am going to keep on spinning and living in misery and hell. And I have almost TWO MORE WEEKS TO SIT HERE AND WORRY ABOUT THIS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Frowner Why oh why do I do this to myself?

My T told me if I started spinning I could call her and she would call me back and talk about it, but this is not something I can just put out there and try to work through over the phone. I wish... The next twelve days are going to feel like forever. UGH.

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