Wynne, Girl that really sucks! I'd like to say you have found all the practicing nutballs and can now procede to find someone worth the letters that follow their name. I don't think it should be this hard to find a suitable T and I don't think you're holding the bar too high. Reminds me of another great Python moment.
Upper Class Twit of the Year
Sorry Wynne. Your experience sounds completely exasperating. I wonder, will you at least call T-3 and ask her what happened?
JM
*embarrassed throat-clearing* So, I totally didn't listen to my VM last night. She apparently called! And canceled. So I could have stayed with Friends. *sigh* She called back today, and was like, "yeeeeah. So...I'm sorry you came in, I thought you would get my VM. I'm sick."
/blush So, yeah.
/blush So, yeah.
Wynne,
Don't be embarrassed, I'm horrible at listening to my messages, so I totally get it. I'm just really happy she DIDN'T stand you up, especially because she was the only one you got good vibes from. Someday this will be a VERY funny story.
AG
Don't be embarrassed, I'm horrible at listening to my messages, so I totally get it. I'm just really happy she DIDN'T stand you up, especially because she was the only one you got good vibes from. Someday this will be a VERY funny story.
AG
Oh my Wynne, so sorry you're finding it hard to find a T. I'd encourage you to keep looking. Or, at least give one more therapist a try (i.e in a therapy session) so that you can compare. I think you were wise to eliminate the first two. However, I see red flags for all three. T1 - hyper on the phone is not a good sign. You should get the feeling right from the first phone call that your time is valuable, that he or she has set aside the time to return your call and you matter. T2 - I can't believe he said that. Potential boundary problems there.
T3 - I'd hate drugs being pushed on me. I had a similar experience as a client years ago. And, in many of the cases where I see it being used today as a therapist, it's my opinion that it slows down therapy. If she really studied the literature she might not be so quick to suggest them. It also made me wonder if she's pressing on this point what other points will she press on?
That the phone was ringing is an honest mistake. That she didn't rush to turn the ringer off..well, that's bizarre to me. As for the cancelation...well, another honest mistake. But you should know, some therapists would do the extra to make absolutely sure you got the message.
I like the idea of going with your gut (a right brain tactic). It gets hard though if a person is so used to getting so little back from others, they won't know what's a normal expectation. Nonetheless, the neuroscience is strongly suggesting that it's the relationship that counts. So, if there was anything I'd focus on, it'd be that I felt really comfortable with the therapist right from the start.
Thank-you for posting this Wynne. I'm writing an ebook on choosing a therapist. Based on the response you got from those therapists I can see there might be a need for it.
Let me know if you have any other questions,
Shrinklady
T3 - I'd hate drugs being pushed on me. I had a similar experience as a client years ago. And, in many of the cases where I see it being used today as a therapist, it's my opinion that it slows down therapy. If she really studied the literature she might not be so quick to suggest them. It also made me wonder if she's pressing on this point what other points will she press on?
That the phone was ringing is an honest mistake. That she didn't rush to turn the ringer off..well, that's bizarre to me. As for the cancelation...well, another honest mistake. But you should know, some therapists would do the extra to make absolutely sure you got the message.
I like the idea of going with your gut (a right brain tactic). It gets hard though if a person is so used to getting so little back from others, they won't know what's a normal expectation. Nonetheless, the neuroscience is strongly suggesting that it's the relationship that counts. So, if there was anything I'd focus on, it'd be that I felt really comfortable with the therapist right from the start.
Thank-you for posting this Wynne. I'm writing an ebook on choosing a therapist. Based on the response you got from those therapists I can see there might be a need for it.
Let me know if you have any other questions,
Shrinklady
I started therapy with mine when i kept having appts her at the clinic my dr works at. I told my dr that i needed a therapist they decided that it would be a good idea if i tried seeing her because they thought i would get along well with her. I agreed because she provided me with stability after going through 6 therapists in 12 months, it was a very confusing time for me and my therapist helped me, I have been seeing her for 3 and a half years its really working i think.
Hi Emerald,
Welcome to the forums! (I said hi over in the transference thread but thought it might be confusing if you read this first and I didn't acknowledge you being new. ) Six therapists in 12 months sounds really stressful. I'm really glad that you found a therapist that you could work with. And if I had to pick one quality it's important for a therapist to provide, stability would top the list.
Shrinklady,
That sounds like a really good idea for an ebook! I really think alot of people would benefit. We so often just get lucky and stumble into these relationships, it just seems a lot smarter to go about it more systematically. But it is hard to know where to start. And as Wynne has so generously shared, sometimes it can take a lot of false starts.
AG
Welcome to the forums! (I said hi over in the transference thread but thought it might be confusing if you read this first and I didn't acknowledge you being new.
) Six therapists in 12 months sounds really stressful. I'm really glad that you found a therapist that you could work with. And if I had to pick one quality it's important for a therapist to provide, stability would top the list. Shrinklady,
That sounds like a really good idea for an ebook! I really think alot of people would benefit. We so often just get lucky and stumble into these relationships, it just seems a lot smarter to go about it more systematically. But it is hard to know where to start. And as Wynne has so generously shared, sometimes it can take a lot of false starts.
AG
HB, Thanks for your best wishes. We'll see!
emerald, Also Welcome.
I'm envious that you managed a successful T-search; I hope mine turns out, too! 12 Ts in 6 months would be waaay too much for me to handle. S'awesome that you managed to get through that.
ShrinkLady,
Many thanks, and I -do- think it's worth an eBook - or two! I do worry about her pushing: if there's one mark against her at the moment, it's that I feel like she -is- kinda pushy, and I worry about what it'll be like when I really trust her. I don't do well in that situation - that is, at present I don't trust that I can stand up and say "no, that makes me uncomfortable" clearly even to a strange T - let alone one I trust, even a bit.
To continue the saga:
She got the messages I left on her VM (her office buzzer flips over to her VM if she doesn't answer), which were like, "um...I'm outside. It's ten past my appointment time. ...Would you let me in?" She called me about an hour later and asked if I'd gotten her VM, apologized a bunch, set up next week's appointment, and said that if she was feeling better and would be in the office Wed, there'd be an appt available, and that she'd tell me Tuesday.
Tuesday, she calls, we set it up. I go in today, on time, and the door's propped. I hit her office buzzer anyway, no answer, I go in, sit in waiting room until 5 past appt time. She comes in, was clearly outside, phone in hand, was like, "oh! Didn't know you were here, buzzer was broken so I propped door, thought I'd hear you come in, didn't, so sorry, etc etc." She'd clearly been looking around for me, but didn't think to look in her waiting room.
Appointment starts. Goes...well? I think? Ish? She... I can't really describe my impression of her, but she hasn't scared me off yet. She -does- seem oddly pushy, but that's probably just because Tfella is seriously hands-off with me (obviously, literally, but I mean he's very very careful about what he says. And always says things like, "is that how you see it? Is it some other way to you?" and so forth). She "feels" much more forceful, though clearly not like AnalystGuy or anything.
One pushy thing that I don't know how to feel about: I mentioned that Something Bad happened, at one point in my life, and she's like, "uh-huh. What was it?" I said that I didn't want to talk about it just yet, 'cause I'd had hard times doing that before. She kept...poking. Like, she asked if any adults had known about it or helped. Um...said I didn't wanna talk about it. Though I answered that. And then later she was able to infer something about it from something else I said, and she brought it up again and asked if her inference was accurate. Like, I get curiosity but...I just met you? Chill?
So, I worry. But "worry" is only a single step, if that, from my normal state of mind, so it's really really hard to tell where I should be with her. At present I'm just relying on the fact that I'm twitchy as hell, and that if anything tells me, "run away!", I'm listening.
emerald, Also Welcome.
I'm envious that you managed a successful T-search; I hope mine turns out, too! 12 Ts in 6 months would be waaay too much for me to handle. S'awesome that you managed to get through that. ShrinkLady,
Many thanks, and I -do- think it's worth an eBook - or two! I do worry about her pushing: if there's one mark against her at the moment, it's that I feel like she -is- kinda pushy, and I worry about what it'll be like when I really trust her. I don't do well in that situation - that is, at present I don't trust that I can stand up and say "no, that makes me uncomfortable" clearly even to a strange T - let alone one I trust, even a bit.
To continue the saga:
She got the messages I left on her VM (her office buzzer flips over to her VM if she doesn't answer), which were like, "um...I'm outside. It's ten past my appointment time. ...Would you let me in?" She called me about an hour later and asked if I'd gotten her VM, apologized a bunch, set up next week's appointment, and said that if she was feeling better and would be in the office Wed, there'd be an appt available, and that she'd tell me Tuesday.
Tuesday, she calls, we set it up. I go in today, on time, and the door's propped. I hit her office buzzer anyway, no answer, I go in, sit in waiting room until 5 past appt time. She comes in, was clearly outside, phone in hand, was like, "oh! Didn't know you were here, buzzer was broken so I propped door, thought I'd hear you come in, didn't, so sorry, etc etc." She'd clearly been looking around for me, but didn't think to look in her waiting room.
Appointment starts. Goes...well? I think? Ish? She... I can't really describe my impression of her, but she hasn't scared me off yet. She -does- seem oddly pushy, but that's probably just because Tfella is seriously hands-off with me (obviously, literally, but I mean he's very very careful about what he says. And always says things like, "is that how you see it? Is it some other way to you?" and so forth). She "feels" much more forceful, though clearly not like AnalystGuy or anything.
One pushy thing that I don't know how to feel about: I mentioned that Something Bad happened, at one point in my life, and she's like, "uh-huh. What was it?" I said that I didn't want to talk about it just yet, 'cause I'd had hard times doing that before. She kept...poking. Like, she asked if any adults had known about it or helped. Um...said I didn't wanna talk about it. Though I answered that. And then later she was able to infer something about it from something else I said, and she brought it up again and asked if her inference was accurate. Like, I get curiosity but...I just met you? Chill?
So, I worry. But "worry" is only a single step, if that, from my normal state of mind, so it's really really hard to tell where I should be with her. At present I'm just relying on the fact that I'm twitchy as hell, and that if anything tells me, "run away!", I'm listening.
I guess if I had a question, ShrinkLady, it'd be these:
1. How do you -know- if you're comfortable with a T or not? I'm barely comfortable with myself, to be honest, and have a serious "must make do" thing going on with people and - well, everything - around me. I'm just not sure how to know this.
2. When do I decide I'm not comfortable? I mean, how long do I go on with this, before I'm like, "nope! you're not it. I mean, you haven't scared me off, but... no." Any ideas?
Thanks! s'just the questions on my mind at this point.
1. How do you -know- if you're comfortable with a T or not? I'm barely comfortable with myself, to be honest, and have a serious "must make do" thing going on with people and - well, everything - around me. I'm just not sure how to know this.
2. When do I decide I'm not comfortable? I mean, how long do I go on with this, before I'm like, "nope! you're not it. I mean, you haven't scared me off, but... no." Any ideas?
Thanks! s'just the questions on my mind at this point.
Hi Wynne, I really like the sounds of Tfella, someone who is very careful what they say. Yeah, that's nice. Too bad he doesn't do individual work.
A question comes up for me Wynne that may or may not fit. I'm wondering if being with someone "pushy" is attracting you in another way. There are several red flags here about this therapist, and yet you're still hanging in. So, I guess I'm curious about that.
Are you going to give another therapist a try too?
Shrinklady
A question comes up for me Wynne that may or may not fit. I'm wondering if being with someone "pushy" is attracting you in another way. There are several red flags here about this therapist, and yet you're still hanging in. So, I guess I'm curious about that.
Are you going to give another therapist a try too?
Shrinklady
Huh. Well, in my defense she's only medium-pushy, unlike AnalystGuy who I'd call (if I had to be precise) whacked-out-illegally-pushy.
But it's a really good question for me to think about, I'd say. *ponders* *worries*
It's also super-weird to go in and tell your life story for two forty-five minute sessions and then not have any contact with that person again. Like, there would then be 2 people in the world, albeit mental health professionals, who know quite a fair bit about my life (relatively speaking) that I have no professional relationship with.
But I guess that comes with the gig.
Reckon I probably should give someone else a try. It -does- mean going back and asking Tfella for more names, which I'm slightly reluctant to do. But not -that- reluctant. *sighs* *digs out email*
But it's a really good question for me to think about, I'd say. *ponders* *worries*
It's also super-weird to go in and tell your life story for two forty-five minute sessions and then not have any contact with that person again. Like, there would then be 2 people in the world, albeit mental health professionals, who know quite a fair bit about my life (relatively speaking) that I have no professional relationship with.
But I guess that comes with the gig.
Reckon I probably should give someone else a try. It -does- mean going back and asking Tfella for more names, which I'm slightly reluctant to do. But not -that- reluctant. *sighs* *digs out email*
Hi Wynne, well you're absolutely right. It does feel wierd to open up yourself to a relative stranger. That's your reptilian brain speaking and it's one smart cookie. My advice is to go slower. Get to know to know your therapist first before you disclose too much. A good therapist doesn't need a lot of details. Give your therapist time to experience being with you...put in lots of pauses. And, the pauses will give you time to process as it happens how she is responding to you. It's this type of interaction that's most valuable for changing the brain.
It's also a good way for you to decide if you are comfortable with her. If she keeps prompting you with questions and is having difficulty with pauses, then that's a good sign she might be too activated to be a good therapist. The therapist's nervous system is a new template for your nervous system...so find the most balanced and calm therapist you can find.
Focus on what you want to see differently in your life. And, just hang out with her in a sense...move through the pauses as much as you can tolerate. In this way, your nervous system is learning something. And, you are attempting to underwrite the implicit patterning in a much more powerful way.
I recently wrote an article about moving in small steps using a process called "tritration". You might find that helpful.
Shrinklady
P.S. Feel free to send me the website addresses of therapists you are considering Wynne. You can learn a lot from a therapist's markeing materials. You can post them here or send them to me with the MyShrink editor email address as I'm not sure my PM is working.
It's also a good way for you to decide if you are comfortable with her. If she keeps prompting you with questions and is having difficulty with pauses, then that's a good sign she might be too activated to be a good therapist. The therapist's nervous system is a new template for your nervous system...so find the most balanced and calm therapist you can find.
Focus on what you want to see differently in your life. And, just hang out with her in a sense...move through the pauses as much as you can tolerate. In this way, your nervous system is learning something. And, you are attempting to underwrite the implicit patterning in a much more powerful way.
I recently wrote an article about moving in small steps using a process called "tritration". You might find that helpful.
Shrinklady
P.S. Feel free to send me the website addresses of therapists you are considering Wynne. You can learn a lot from a therapist's markeing materials. You can post them here or send them to me with the MyShrink editor email address as I'm not sure my PM is working.
quote:the pauses will give you time to process as it happens how she is responding to you. It's this type of interaction that's most valuable for changing the brain.
Shrinklady
Thanks for explaining this. I feel so uncomfortable when my T pauses, and she does it quite often. I feel like I am supposed to say something here, but now I see that I should just try to let it happen and see what happens.
Reading your info on tritration and containment was very insightful for me too. I have been seeing my T 2x's a week for a while now because she felt that I needed more "containment." It has made things much more intense and faster moving, which can be painful at times, but all in all I think it has helped open my eyes to many of my behaviors. I really love my T and trust her completely, but to hear another T validate some of the things she is doing, helps a lot.
PL
Shrinklady,
Your explanation and counseling tip seem very appropriate to the discussion we've been having in theNot Looking Froward to Seeing My T
thread.
And I Quote from your page:
I think that sums up a lot of what we are feeling, having sooo much to talk about after a week or two separation.
I think that's very interesting. Hope I didn't sidtrack the excellent conversation going on here. Maybe I should have posted this in the other thread?
Thanks,
JM
Your explanation and counseling tip seem very appropriate to the discussion we've been having in theNot Looking Froward to Seeing My T
thread.
And I Quote from your page:
quote:Some clients arrive at the therapist's office anxious to discuss a long list of topics. If this describes you, I'd encourage you to consider a smaller list.
It's usually far more effective to explore one topic than it is to rush through many. The value of therapy is less in making sure your therapist knows all the details than it is in experiencing parts of your story with your therapist.
Give yourself plenty of time to process what happens--as it happens--in the session as you talk about your concerns and as your therapist responds. Allow yourself to settle in at the beginning, during and at the end of any subject. In other words, let your body catch up to your words.
I think that sums up a lot of what we are feeling, having sooo much to talk about after a week or two separation.
I think that's very interesting. Hope I didn't sidtrack the excellent conversation going on here. Maybe I should have posted this in the other thread?
Thanks,
JM
Your offer is very generous, ShrinkLady, but amusingly enough they don't have web sites.
Wynne
I have a web site that you may want to take a look at. She has an awful lot of good information on her site. I don't know where you are located. This is not my regular T, but we have developed a relationship online. Many times she has said things that give me the courage to bring it up with my T. She is very knowledgeable of gay and lesbian issues. Just a thought if you are interested
www.WomensPsychotherapy.com
PL
I have a web site that you may want to take a look at. She has an awful lot of good information on her site. I don't know where you are located. This is not my regular T, but we have developed a relationship online. Many times she has said things that give me the courage to bring it up with my T. She is very knowledgeable of gay and lesbian issues. Just a thought if you are interested
www.WomensPsychotherapy.com
PL
Hey, folks. Back on the saga for a bit. Was having a hard time with the womanT, with getting her to drop things I don't want to talk about - in the second session. She kept on picking at things. It was also like she was -looking- for things that were wrong with me. Like, I mentioned that when I don't go outside, sometimes I play video games if I'm not feeling particularly productive. Without asking how often I play, how I feel about playing, whether or not I play with my real life friends, etc, etc, the very first question she asked was, "do you think you're addicted?" It's like she's looking for things that are wrong with me, right off the bat. Same with when she asked me to talk about being a kid - she asked a really skeezy question implying...awful stuff... about my grandpa and me. *shakes fist* not cool.
So, I went in to terminate, with the sole goal of terminating, told her so right off the bat, and that I felt like I was being pressured and pushed and that I wasn't comfortable coming and wanted to stop. And that I wasn't looking for her to persuade me or convince me otherwise. So, we went through what wasn't working for me, and what she was doing that felt wrong, and all that. So... she suggested that perhaps the reasons things hadn't been going well were because she'd been sick, because she was from the East Coast and was too blunt, because she was a woman and Tfella's a dude and maybe I don't work well with women... then she proceeded to ask if I'd give her another chance, because she could change. *headdesk* After I'd already explained 3 or 4 times that I had a hard time saying no to folks to their faces when they're all power-y and I feel like I'm supposed to be doing what they're saying.
Failure to terminate, then. I said I'd give her another chance. And the session's over. I mention that the only thing I came here wanting to do was terminate, and that I failed to do that. She says that she hopes I feel like I did it because I wanted to, not because I was pressured. I say, "No, actually not really." And I go. Nothing changes.
*sigh*
So, I went in to terminate, with the sole goal of terminating, told her so right off the bat, and that I felt like I was being pressured and pushed and that I wasn't comfortable coming and wanted to stop. And that I wasn't looking for her to persuade me or convince me otherwise. So, we went through what wasn't working for me, and what she was doing that felt wrong, and all that. So... she suggested that perhaps the reasons things hadn't been going well were because she'd been sick, because she was from the East Coast and was too blunt, because she was a woman and Tfella's a dude and maybe I don't work well with women... then she proceeded to ask if I'd give her another chance, because she could change. *headdesk* After I'd already explained 3 or 4 times that I had a hard time saying no to folks to their faces when they're all power-y and I feel like I'm supposed to be doing what they're saying.
Failure to terminate, then. I said I'd give her another chance. And the session's over. I mention that the only thing I came here wanting to do was terminate, and that I failed to do that. She says that she hopes I feel like I did it because I wanted to, not because I was pressured. I say, "No, actually not really." And I go. Nothing changes.
*sigh*
Here's the happy bit! Had group on Wednesday, saw Tfella, told the group how my T search was going. Tfella blushed totally when I was talking about the experiences with his referrals - I -almost- felt bad. *wickedgrin* Set up a private consult with him after via email.
Met with him Friday morning, and that was awesome. He helped me figure out what specifically I'd really really not liked, why it might have affected me as much as it did, and told me that he'd been picking Ts based on criteria X, when clearly he should have been going with criteria Y. Very exciting.
Tfella's a family systems therapist, so he explained why the Ts I saw were freaking out based on my...okay, so this sounds like weird metaphysics, but on my "highly charged family field." Like, they could kinda sense that things had been Horribly Wrong, and they got all nervous and freaked out and...immediately recommended medication and stuff. So he was looking for Ts on his list that he thought of as particularly calm and... centered, or something. Which is cool.
Anyway, it's really nice to have been in Tfella's office and with Tfella again. Dude seriously calms me down, s'true. And doesn't make me feel like some kinda weird freak full of tragedy and...badness. Which the other Ts singularly failed to do. Making Ts twitchy? Not awesome, admittedly. But at least Tfella's going to be a bit more careful, give me names one at a time, and I get to consult with him after one T if it doesn't go well.
Met with him Friday morning, and that was awesome. He helped me figure out what specifically I'd really really not liked, why it might have affected me as much as it did, and told me that he'd been picking Ts based on criteria X, when clearly he should have been going with criteria Y. Very exciting.
Tfella's a family systems therapist, so he explained why the Ts I saw were freaking out based on my...okay, so this sounds like weird metaphysics, but on my "highly charged family field." Like, they could kinda sense that things had been Horribly Wrong, and they got all nervous and freaked out and...immediately recommended medication and stuff. So he was looking for Ts on his list that he thought of as particularly calm and... centered, or something. Which is cool.
Anyway, it's really nice to have been in Tfella's office and with Tfella again. Dude seriously calms me down, s'true. And doesn't make me feel like some kinda weird freak full of tragedy and...badness. Which the other Ts singularly failed to do. Making Ts twitchy? Not awesome, admittedly. But at least Tfella's going to be a bit more careful, give me names one at a time, and I get to consult with him after one T if it doesn't go well.
Hi Wynne... I'm so glad you popped in to update us cause I was a bit worried as to where you had gone off to. I'm sorry you had that unresolved termination session with the female T. I'm not sure I would be able to talk to her either. I know this probably sounds strange but I have a really hard time dealing with female professionals and so I see a male T and I'm much happier.
I'm sooo glad you were able to have a session with ole Tfella and that he was so concerned about you and was trying to be more helpful in his recommendations. That's wonderful that he has taken such an interest in helping you. I know what you mean when you say he calms you. My T is incredibly calming to me... better than a pill and much nicer to look at
Anyway, keep us updated on his new recommendation. It's great that he is willing to talk to you after each interview session with a new T. I wish you much luck in finding the right fit with a new T. I think you are very brave to keep forging ahead without giving up. Good for you. Please keep us posted.
TN
I'm sooo glad you were able to have a session with ole Tfella and that he was so concerned about you and was trying to be more helpful in his recommendations. That's wonderful that he has taken such an interest in helping you. I know what you mean when you say he calms you. My T is incredibly calming to me... better than a pill and much nicer to look at
Anyway, keep us updated on his new recommendation. It's great that he is willing to talk to you after each interview session with a new T. I wish you much luck in finding the right fit with a new T. I think you are very brave to keep forging ahead without giving up. Good for you. Please keep us posted.
TN
TN,
I'm sorry I've been gone so much; I've mostly, like I said elsewhere, kinda withdrawn with this whole "T search" thing. It's been a lot easier to just not think about things, myself, what I'm feeling and all that.
But I'm mostly back. TFella generally has that effect on me.
I'm sorry I've been gone so much; I've mostly, like I said elsewhere, kinda withdrawn with this whole "T search" thing. It's been a lot easier to just not think about things, myself, what I'm feeling and all that.
But I'm mostly back. TFella generally has that effect on me.
Wynne
I'm so glad you are back. I have missed you. I completely get the whole thing about taking a break from everything. Sometimes we just need to step back and take a breather before jumping in and working so hard all over again. I'm glad that Tfella is giving you more of what you need. Hope the search gets better.
PL
I'm so glad you are back. I have missed you. I completely get the whole thing about taking a break from everything. Sometimes we just need to step back and take a breather before jumping in and working so hard all over again. I'm glad that Tfella is giving you more of what you need. Hope the search gets better.
PL
Welcome back Wynne!
Sometimes it's easier not to think about things, so we can re-energize ourselves to fight another day.
Good luck as you continue your T search.
OW
Sometimes it's easier not to think about things, so we can re-energize ourselves to fight another day.
Good luck as you continue your T search.
OW
Hey Wynne,
It is good to have you back. I missed you and been wondering about you too. I was just short of starting a post called "Hey Wynne, where'd you go?"
I am sorry the whole T saga is still going on, but it is good that you met with T-fella and didn't completley throw in the towel. I hope you find a suitable T soon. And I'm happy that T-fella is being so helpful.
JM
It is good to have you back. I missed you and been wondering about you too. I was just short of starting a post called "Hey Wynne, where'd you go?"
I am sorry the whole T saga is still going on, but it is good that you met with T-fella and didn't completley throw in the towel. I hope you find a suitable T soon. And I'm happy that T-fella is being so helpful.
JM
Wow. This has kinda been quite the reception. I'm... I'm actually about as touched as this rock-hearted little I-don't-cry weird-stone-faced avatar gets.
Yeah, he's been in private practice before, I do believe. But he's kinda...older, like, and moved away from that slowly into working in the institutional university setting and teaching and doing consulting and stuff.
quote:Originally posted by Hummingbird:
I must admit when i read your update the first thought that went through my head was - is it not possible to bribe, coerce, charm or coax Tfella into taking you on as a private patient? You work so well with him and he is so good for you. Introduce him to neuroplasticity and convince him that just because he hasn't done it before it doen't mean it isn't possible.
Yeah, he's been in private practice before, I do believe. But he's kinda...older, like, and moved away from that slowly into working in the institutional university setting and teaching and doing consulting and stuff.
Wynne,
Just added to the chorus, it's really good to hear from you, I was getting a little worried too. And its hard to send out search parties when we don't know where you are!
I'm glad to hear that Tfella is getting that he needs a different approach. Everyone makes mistakes, its how we respond to our mistakes that's important! You're going to find a T that you can heal with. I know this must be difficult to go through but you'll find someone. And then you too can write long posts about how he or she is driving you crazy. See, you have something to look forward to.
AG
Just added to the chorus, it's really good to hear from you, I was getting a little worried too. And its hard to send out search parties when we don't know where you are!
I'm glad to hear that Tfella is getting that he needs a different approach. Everyone makes mistakes, its how we respond to our mistakes that's important! You're going to find a T that you can heal with. I know this must be difficult to go through but you'll find someone. And then you too can write long posts about how he or she is driving you crazy. See, you have something to look forward to.
AG
quote:I'm actually about as touched as this rock-hearted little I-don't-cry weird-stone-faced avatar gets.
I'm glad to see we're getting to you!
Heh, you are, JM, you are.
So, I worked up the courage to cancel the appointment with MedsLady. Tfella gave me a new name - a T he said was "calmer", less anxious, etc, and I gave that guy a call.
So we'll see!
So, I worked up the courage to cancel the appointment with MedsLady. Tfella gave me a new name - a T he said was "calmer", less anxious, etc, and I gave that guy a call.
So we'll see!
Heh, Many thanks for your warm wishes HB, but I'm pretty sure that once I get a T, the pain begins.
So, the first appointment with a T that Tfella said was "calm" and "less likely to freak out" is tomorrow night. We'll see!
I called him (same day I canceled with MedsLady) and he _did_ sound calm, even though I was probably rattling his phone all the way across town with the phoneshakes. He very (calmly) told me what to bring to the session, (calmly) told me to bring my info, etc., and (calmly) told me that the first appointment would be an hour and a half instead of an hour, if that was okay. No "I prefer to see my patients twice a week if they can" (AnalystGuy), no "so, would you say your problem is anxiety? or depression? or what, basically?" (MedsLady), no nothin' like that. So, points for phonecalltalk.
I know he probably _is_ a little confused: I know Tfella called him, since at first I didn't wanna see CalmT1 (works, I suppose?) 'cause I thought he shared a waiting room with MedsLady: at the very least, they're in the same building. So I have imagined a bunch of conversations, all of them funny, between CalmT1 and Tfella. I am not at _all_ worried that Tfella told him anything about me, so I'm pretty sure the conversation went something like this:
"Hi, ________(CalmT1), this is _____(Tfella). You're at ADDRESS these days, right?"
"Um, hi ____(Tfella), yes I am. What's up?"
"Oh, nothing, just referring a client over to you and wanted to check on that. Say, do you share your waiting room with other therapists?"
"What? Oh, I actually don't have a waiting room in this building. There's like a buzzer system, you see they buzz the door and I let them in and...."
"Okay, alright, good. So, you don't share a waiting room? You don't even _have_ a waiting room?"
"....nope."
"Great! That's great. So yeah, referring a client over. Should hear from her sometime soon. Thanks so much!"
"...no problem. .... Glad I could... answer your questions?"
"Yep! Thanks for returning my call. Take care!"
Ten bucks says CalmT1's putting money on me being Scared of Waiting Rooms (DSM-IV-TR 300.08.11.54.12.33.009) or somethin'. :P
*ominous music* *drumroll* We'll see!
I called him (same day I canceled with MedsLady) and he _did_ sound calm, even though I was probably rattling his phone all the way across town with the phoneshakes. He very (calmly) told me what to bring to the session, (calmly) told me to bring my info, etc., and (calmly) told me that the first appointment would be an hour and a half instead of an hour, if that was okay. No "I prefer to see my patients twice a week if they can" (AnalystGuy), no "so, would you say your problem is anxiety? or depression? or what, basically?" (MedsLady), no nothin' like that. So, points for phonecalltalk.
I know he probably _is_ a little confused: I know Tfella called him, since at first I didn't wanna see CalmT1 (works, I suppose?) 'cause I thought he shared a waiting room with MedsLady: at the very least, they're in the same building. So I have imagined a bunch of conversations, all of them funny, between CalmT1 and Tfella. I am not at _all_ worried that Tfella told him anything about me, so I'm pretty sure the conversation went something like this:
"Hi, ________(CalmT1), this is _____(Tfella). You're at ADDRESS these days, right?"
"Um, hi ____(Tfella), yes I am. What's up?"
"Oh, nothing, just referring a client over to you and wanted to check on that. Say, do you share your waiting room with other therapists?"
"What? Oh, I actually don't have a waiting room in this building. There's like a buzzer system, you see they buzz the door and I let them in and...."
"Okay, alright, good. So, you don't share a waiting room? You don't even _have_ a waiting room?"
"....nope."
"Great! That's great. So yeah, referring a client over. Should hear from her sometime soon. Thanks so much!"
"...no problem. .... Glad I could... answer your questions?"
"Yep! Thanks for returning my call. Take care!"
Ten bucks says CalmT1's putting money on me being Scared of Waiting Rooms (DSM-IV-TR 300.08.11.54.12.33.009) or somethin'. :P
*ominous music* *drumroll* We'll see!
Yeah, we better not let the pharma guys know about that new disorder...it'll mean a new drug for sure.
Glad to hear how things are going Wynne. I'm relieved to learn you dropped MedsLady...too many red flags. Your experiences have been so helpful with my book. I'm definitely gonna cover off the initial phone call. This new therapist sounds good.
Let us know how it goes,
Shrinklady
Glad to hear how things are going Wynne. I'm relieved to learn you dropped MedsLady...too many red flags. Your experiences have been so helpful with my book. I'm definitely gonna cover off the initial phone call. This new therapist sounds good.
Let us know how it goes,
Shrinklady
quote:Yeah, we better not let the pharma guys know about that new disorder...it'll mean a new drug for sure.
Heh.
Y'know, one of the things that I think really calms me down about being around Tfella is that I feel like he's pullin' for me. Like, he wants me to "win", to get better, to succeed, to ...do all those cool things people do. S'really nice.
I kinda feel like that around here, too.
Wynne
Glad you feel that way. Because we are all pulling for each other around here. That's what keeps me coming back again, and again, and again, and .........
PL
Glad you feel that way. Because we are all pulling for each other around here. That's what keeps me coming back again, and again, and again, and .........
PL
Huh! That was vaguely promising.
So, went to see CalmT1. Dude lived up to his moniker, and managed to Not Freak Out at any point during my first session. He listened, and listened pretty darn well, and asked good questions. He did lead the session, but he managed to do it without every feeling "pushy." We even got to a point where, when he was asking about things I wanted to work on, and I mentioned that there were some things that'd come up with Tfella that I hadn't really been able to manage and that we'd had to put aside, and he just nodded, said that was the sort of thing we could work on in non-time-limited therapy, and...let it go. No pushin'. No, "So, what was that thing that you didn't manage to talk to Tfella about in 4 months but that you're clearly going to want to bring out in the first time you've ever met me?"
CalmT even had a disclaimer form on the info packet he gave me - to read _at home_ and sign when I come back in, if I'm cool with that - that includes a big section with information about possible downsides of therapy, including extreme mental distress and a list of horrible emotions that you may very well feel in the midst of therapy. That was soooo cool.
And he wasn't going through a checklist of questions to ask. He didn't, say, out-of-the-blue ask me if I had suicidal thoughts (both of the others did, and that has nothing to do with anything I've ever talked with them about, nor does it fit -at all- with anything I've talked about. *sigh*). They were clearly going through questionnaires. He? didn't even ask me how my friendships were and if I had enough, which just about everybody else had. Like, it didn't seem relevant? So he didn't go there, he just stayed with what I was talking about. Was nice.
He totally gets more shots. I even got around to telling him that he was the fourth T I'd seen in like 6 weeks or so.
The one thing I did think he was twitchy about was whether or not I was still seeing Tfella individually. He also seemed more than a bit surprised about the fact that I was in group, and with Tfella. I'm sure that'll be an interesting Thing to talk about.
So, went to see CalmT1. Dude lived up to his moniker, and managed to Not Freak Out at any point during my first session. He listened, and listened pretty darn well, and asked good questions. He did lead the session, but he managed to do it without every feeling "pushy." We even got to a point where, when he was asking about things I wanted to work on, and I mentioned that there were some things that'd come up with Tfella that I hadn't really been able to manage and that we'd had to put aside, and he just nodded, said that was the sort of thing we could work on in non-time-limited therapy, and...let it go. No pushin'. No, "So, what was that thing that you didn't manage to talk to Tfella about in 4 months but that you're clearly going to want to bring out in the first time you've ever met me?"
CalmT even had a disclaimer form on the info packet he gave me - to read _at home_ and sign when I come back in, if I'm cool with that - that includes a big section with information about possible downsides of therapy, including extreme mental distress and a list of horrible emotions that you may very well feel in the midst of therapy. That was soooo cool.
And he wasn't going through a checklist of questions to ask. He didn't, say, out-of-the-blue ask me if I had suicidal thoughts (both of the others did, and that has nothing to do with anything I've ever talked with them about, nor does it fit -at all- with anything I've talked about. *sigh*). They were clearly going through questionnaires. He? didn't even ask me how my friendships were and if I had enough, which just about everybody else had. Like, it didn't seem relevant? So he didn't go there, he just stayed with what I was talking about. Was nice.
He totally gets more shots. I even got around to telling him that he was the fourth T I'd seen in like 6 weeks or so.
The one thing I did think he was twitchy about was whether or not I was still seeing Tfella individually. He also seemed more than a bit surprised about the fact that I was in group, and with Tfella. I'm sure that'll be an interesting Thing to talk about.
Sooooo much better Wynne. This guys sounds good. He stayed with you and still led the session to some extent. It all sounds promising.
Shrinklady
Shrinklady
Yay, Wynne! This T sounds promising. Thanks for keeping us updated on your search. It's been very interesting.
I sound different talking about him? really? That's cool! I'm glad it's not just me that thinks that went well.
I bet he'll be surprised when I tell him...
I bet he'll be surprised when I tell him...
Wynne
SCORE!!!!!! Sounds like this may be a match. You have worked so hard a persevered. You deserve this and I'm so happy for you.
PL
SCORE!!!!!! Sounds like this may be a match. You have worked so hard a persevered. You deserve this and I'm so happy for you.
PL
Also? *gonna stop chatting and go to bed soon, I swears* He had That Thing, that Calm Thing? That Tfella has. Like, if I knew him better/trusted him, I feel like I'd get calmer just sitting in the same room with the dude.
S'goodtimes.
S'goodtimes.
I agree Wynne, you do sound different and so much better. I don't feel like you're trying to convince yourself that this guy is ok; he really is OK. I was thrilled to hear about CalmTfella and how you felt about his calm. I remember experiencing that incredible sense of peace when I met my T. It kind of comes off of him in waves. This guy sounded really good; more importantly, you sounded calm and happy and attracted to him. I don't mean that in any kind of a romantic sense but in the classic "drawn towards" sense. Like you would actually like to get to know him better and trust him so that you could experience that calm. I am SO glad that your perserverence is paying off.
AG
AG
Hi Attachment Girl, haven't chatted with you for a while. Hope all is well. It's an interesting point about the therapist being calm. If neuroscience continues to suggest it, there's a good chance that the a calm therapist does indeed calm the client as you imply.
It was suggested by a famous trauma researcher (Bessel van der Kolk) that "you're only as good a parent as you are an affect regulator". He means that if you're able to help your infant contain and manage emotions, he or she will flourish and be happpy. In the same vein, it's very possible that you're only as a good a therapist as you are at helping clients manage affect.
I certainly noticed that as I became calmer in my work that my clients progressed at a faster rate. The two correlated.
Unfortunately, it's confounded. I don't know if this result was because as a body psychotherapist my skills got better (and I know they did) or was it because I became more balanced.
I'm tempted to think if might be a combination of both. I certainly feel body psychotherapy helps speed things up.
Anyway, food for though,
Shrinklady
It was suggested by a famous trauma researcher (Bessel van der Kolk) that "you're only as good a parent as you are an affect regulator". He means that if you're able to help your infant contain and manage emotions, he or she will flourish and be happpy. In the same vein, it's very possible that you're only as a good a therapist as you are at helping clients manage affect.
I certainly noticed that as I became calmer in my work that my clients progressed at a faster rate. The two correlated.
Unfortunately, it's confounded. I don't know if this result was because as a body psychotherapist my skills got better (and I know they did) or was it because I became more balanced.
I'm tempted to think if might be a combination of both. I certainly feel body psychotherapy helps speed things up.
Anyway, food for though,
Shrinklady
Hi Shrinklady, it's good to hear from you!
I think my T's calm has had a huge affect on my healing. I wasn't going near my emotions because the affects were so terrifying and overwhelming that on some level I really believed that I would be annihilated by them. But no matter how I behaved, no matter how scared I got or how badly I melted down, my T stayed calm and NEVER showed any kind of fear. So if he wasn't scared, why was I? He taught me by example that I could feel these emotions and that they wouldn't overpower or destroy me.
When I'm doing really intense memory work, I can get pretty scary. I have spent large chunks of session, doubled over, sobbing, eyes closed, with my hands over my head. For some reason, acting like that tends to upset some people and make them not want to be with you. But through it all, my T would very calmly soothe me with his voice (especially in the beginning) and whenever I opened my eyes, there he sat in no way looking overwhelmed. He showed me compassion for my pain, but never any fear of my behavior. I learned to trust myself by watching him trust me. I needed his calm, sure, stability so I could learn that such a thing existed. So yeah, I think it's a big factor.
But I would also agree with you that your increased experience helped also. I remember once, after hitting my T with alot of displaced anger, asking how he managed to stay so calm and non-defensive especially in the face of anger he didn't deserve. He smiled and told me that earlier in his career, he wouldn't have handled it so well. And that clearing out his own stuff over the years had made a big difference. I owe a debt of gratitude to his former patients because everything he learned from them, he uses with me.
AG
I think my T's calm has had a huge affect on my healing. I wasn't going near my emotions because the affects were so terrifying and overwhelming that on some level I really believed that I would be annihilated by them. But no matter how I behaved, no matter how scared I got or how badly I melted down, my T stayed calm and NEVER showed any kind of fear. So if he wasn't scared, why was I? He taught me by example that I could feel these emotions and that they wouldn't overpower or destroy me.
When I'm doing really intense memory work, I can get pretty scary. I have spent large chunks of session, doubled over, sobbing, eyes closed, with my hands over my head. For some reason, acting like that tends to upset some people and make them not want to be with you.
But through it all, my T would very calmly soothe me with his voice (especially in the beginning) and whenever I opened my eyes, there he sat in no way looking overwhelmed. He showed me compassion for my pain, but never any fear of my behavior. I learned to trust myself by watching him trust me. I needed his calm, sure, stability so I could learn that such a thing existed. So yeah, I think it's a big factor. But I would also agree with you that your increased experience helped also. I remember once, after hitting my T with alot of displaced anger, asking how he managed to stay so calm and non-defensive especially in the face of anger he didn't deserve. He smiled and told me that earlier in his career, he wouldn't have handled it so well. And that clearing out his own stuff over the years had made a big difference. I owe a debt of gratitude to his former patients because everything he learned from them, he uses with me.
AG