just one more thing: (always)
My T went for a "tiny vacation"- i wont see him before next monday, but i am doing OK. I`ll manage.

Hm, froggy...first of all, I hope you are not so abnormal...because if you are, than so am I. I have thought about nothing but my T from morning until night since pretty much, session one, everything, everything in my life relates back to him, somehow, and it honestly feels like I am going crazy. So, you are not alone. Lots of people feel the same way. I also think I will die, literally, die if I had to end with my T. Yeah, it's probably past stuff, that's what makes the most sense to me...since I get into such a good/awful place when I am hurting from missing him, it feel like I was hurting like a small child in that time. Do you ever feel like that...like you are a small kid, who wants badly to be comforted by your T, and that being forgotten by him would be the worst thing that could happen to you? Well, that is how it is for me...yours may feel different. SO it could be some old wounds, for sure...that makes a lot of sense, at least to me.

The other thing that I wanted to offer, was that, it seems like he is helping you along to try to talk about it...to help him understand, where you are at with this...why YOU think it may have happened this way. He needs to hear your side of the story, I guess, because feeling like you do, you are likely to take anything he says and run with it, whether it makes sense for you, deeply underneath, or not...do you understand what I mean? the goal is together to uncover the *truth* of what is in you, not to have him tell you, what that truth is...and I guess, you have to be the first one to say what you think.

Does this make sense? Let me know if you need me to clarify anything or say it differently.

love,

BB

Hi Frog,
You sound perfectly normal to me. I've been obsessive about my T for three straight years with a life and death intensity. I know I've written a lot about the subject on the forums, so I'm going to try and find some of my old posts. But in the meantime, this old thread has a link to a video that explains the intensity of attachment (scroll up, I couldn't find the top of the page link). Attachment Intensity

I would also highly recommend reading General Theory of Love which describes how central and important attachment is to being human and how it ties into successful therapy. I know English isn't your first language (you do amazingly well btw!!) so I'm not sure how accessible it will be, but I found it to be a valuable resource in understandng this. I'm going to post this and go lookiing for some old posts. I'm working a volunteer shift and doing this between calls so it may be a while before I'm back.

AG

Hi Frog,
I dug up some links to old threads that I think might help you. There's a lot here but I know how crazy-making it is to feel this way, so I thought more was better than less. Hopefully some of this will help and you can always ask more questions.

Disorganized Attachment

Attachment in Psychotherapy

Dependency in therapy - how much is too much? Scroll up to SG's reply.

Feeling anxious

Update on Transference

I want to quit even though I know I shouldn't

Therapy relationship question

AG

(((you guys)))

I`ll like to thank and respond to you all, and add questions again:
Teta- yeah, i guess this questions itself is just very common and very typically "shrink-like" you know. I smiled ab it when i read your describtion of your T as well- we might have the same t, teta! It was ME that had to tell my T about trnsefrence.. although i know he`s an expert (written books about it etc) om the topic.. Thanks for asking me Teta and yes, perhaps you are right that he wants to "open this door" and let ME talk about it- and i definitly think it would fit my T`s style to give me some silent/provoking treatment in order to force me to start talk. How are you and your T these days teta?

Blanket Girl- cant believe you manage to reply when your wrist is broken..! yeah, akward is propably one of the words i`ll use to describe all this. But i have to say- to your Question- i NEVER question my Ts compentance and knowlidge. Hes a very well-known psychotherapist in my country and practised for almost 40 years, so no doubt the man has experienced this stuff before. so- i hope- there is nothing *spescial* with my case...he- thats a relief.. thanks for asking!

BeebEEEEEEE
oh, bb - thanks you for letting me know that im not REALLY ubnormal- sometimes i know i "name" myself things, that i would NEVER name otherones..like me being ubnormal and crazy..I would never say you are, so i guess the (blessing) in this resonement is that none of us are. We`re just human. I so relate to your attachment. If my T dies i would die. Yep, thats the feeling. I actually havent "dared" to call this child-like-feelings but thats pretty much on the spot for me as well. The child in me both loves/needs my T and are scared to death for being rejected or like you said- forgotten. Beebee- my T is indeed trying to let ME explain this to him. I know thats how he works in order to force me "uncover the truth". But i have to say i constantly tries to force HIM to tell me stuff. I keep digging for HE`s info, cause i presume(?) he actaully HAS THE ANSWER or at least a theory/thesis about why i have developed such intense transeference (partly paternal, partly erotic..more? Ambivalent attachment, yeah, all of them ) BB- it ALL makes sense. It doestn mean its easy and *knowing* this doesent seem to change anything for me.. Can i ask how much of such stuff you share with your T? Do you tell your T about the true depth of the intense attachment?
Thanks again beebee. (((bb)))



AG- YES-YES-YES- I GOT THE AG-MEDICINE
You know what AG? Before i became a official member of this forum, i lurked(?) a round here and believe me i`ve READ the links you`ve written! They`ve been SO helpful (but also triggered me in a way, you know?) and you`re so (too)good to me (and i noticed that i think everybody here in forum feels helped by you as well) taking time during shifts to reply on this.
Firstly: Thanks for letting me know this sounds normal. It means a lot hearing it from OTHERS. I tried to watch the video but there`s something wrong with the internet so its just hacking(?)- but i sure will watch it later. The book "General Theory of love" i understand is recommented by meny people, i think am gonna check out if its transelated into my language. (thanks for givin me credits for my english btw, i`m getting better as long as i keep hanging around here on the forums at least. )
AG- i will re-read some of the links you`ve givin me (again) but in lack of time (already late for school) i will have to come back for more questions to you. I would be very thankful if i could ask you questions when theire also more articulated within me..cause right now i`m still a bit overwhelmed and, dont take this the bad way- but somehow i hesitate reading and seeking more knowlidge about attachment/transeference-issues cause it doestn seem to "fix" the problems, just recognize them, identify them and understand them- at least in a intellectual way. You know? sorry if i sound arrogant or something!

Thanks again AG- i am actually very curious about how you managed to cope so well with all this, so i am glad its ok for you that i ask you further questions?
Take care.

Frog,

I would suggest you talk to your T about how you might be attaching to him unconsciously as well as consciously. I believe that much of this kind of dynamic occurs below our level of awareness. It's kind of like wondering why - and not really understanding - you're so attracted to one person but not another. A lot of the reasons are unconscious, and you have to look at things like dreams and language to get an idea of what those unconscious motivations are.

Best,
Russ

Thanks Russ for givin me your insight and reminder of attaching unconsciously. That makes the whole thin even more "mystic" and interesting!

I DO want to/need to/ long for bringin this up (again) in therapy. I got a bit inspired now, cause one of the reasons that i`ve hesitated bringin it up had been the "too much understanding" and less "wondering"-part.." at least from my perspective. What comes to my T i dunno. He seem to wonder about stuff all the time..lol- guess thats the art of his job..questionate things and reflect on things with a "wondering" attitude

New question: (sorry, they just seem to pop up constantly) Do you think this dynamic (attachment-style) is "caused" by me alone, or may my T (unconcsiously) trigger it??? maybe want it? If so- it takes both of us to change this dynamic, right?

thanks again

quote:

Originally posted by Frog:
but somehow i hesitate reading and seeking more knowlidge about attachment/transeference-issues cause it doestn seem to "fix" the problems, just recognize them, identify them and understand them- at least in a intellectual way.

Frog - I can really relate. I think I am begining to maybe develop a rather intense attachment to my T - in all kinds of ways. I think I understand why, and it does help a little for me to know why... it keeps me from doing anything too super nutty... but it doesn't really change the attachment, the feelings, the intensity of them...

AG wrote in the first post she linked to:

quote:

I know with my T I have exhibited both avoidant behavior of not wanting him to matter and wanting to flee the relationship alternating with terror that he wouldn't be there and needing to contact him, sometimes multiple times between appts to make sure he was still there. These behaviors could flip flop back and forth at a really high rate, sometimes within minutes of each other.

Oh, that is so me! Instead of calling, I'll go to the website of where my T works, see her name is still listed under staff, and I'm reassured. And then moments later I want to never go back and then feel nothing and then...

ugh. I've just started feeling this way with my T. With this T, we work with horses in the therapy, and up until now, the focus has been on me and the horse. Recently, it's shifted to a little more focus on the relationship between me and the T... and I find these feeling are being stirred up so fast and intensely I'm scared! I don't even want to talk about it or feel them at all!

I too, wonder, how do I get past this? I think I understand that I'm having all these strong feelings because my T is accepting of me and gives me freedom to be, just be, in a way that I have needed and haven't had with a T before... and here I am struggling with all the feelings of disorganized and terribly intense attachment feelings - smilliar to what I felt as a kid towards my parents... and I wonder, now what?

I wish I had any words of advice for you Frog, just know you are certainly not alone in this!

keep posting when you can (and if it is helpful to you)
- jd

p.s. I agree, you are doing well with your english! (it is a tough language to learn! im impressed you are working on it with such difficult subject matters of the heart)

p.s. regarding your question about - is it you? is it the T? I think the answer is yes, it is both of you. And yeah, it takes both of you to work through it in a new way.

Here is an article that has helped me understand *how* transferance and attachment of this kind comes about. There is a lot of other great info on this site and this forum. Just posting this here just incase it is helpful

http://www.guidetopsychology.com/txtypes.htm

==================================================

Transference

It is common, and even expected, for the client to experience feelings for the psychotherapist that are called a transference reaction; these feelings are really no different than common “love” or hate. The psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan taught that this common “love” is a belief in another; [1] that is, it is a belief that the other person has some knowledge you lack. (Hate, being the reciprocal of love, means that your belief in the other person has, for some reason, dissolved.) And in this transference the client’s intense belief in the psychotherapist can cause some difficult problems that must be resolved within the psychotherapeutic work.

For example, your feelings can resemble the mixed feelings (i.e., love and hate) you had in childhood for your parents, and you can begin to treat your psychotherapist according to these feelings, all out of proportion to what is actually happening in the psychotherapy. In such a case, you need to realize that the psychotherapist is only doing his or her job of bringing these feelings to light; it’s your feelings, not the person of the psychotherapist, that are important.

Also, you can come to believe that your psychotherapist has the personal ability to redeem your sense of inner worthlessness, and so you can start to feel special and become very fond of, or even sexually attracted to, him or her. The therapeutic cure, however, must come from facing—not seducing—your inner emptiness.

(link to read more about Erotic Transference here)

So if transference isn’t handled carefully it will lead to disaster. For example, many clients have had their lives ruined by sexual affairs with their psychotherapists, all because the psychotherapist took the client’s erotic feelings personally and failed to help the client understand their clinical meaning.

Transference can also frighten you into terminating psychotherapy prematurely, rather than working through the feelings—especially the angry feelings—within the treatment. For example, during the therapeutic process you will experience many emotions that are similar to the intense and confusing emotions you felt as a child. Disappointment. Anger. Confusion. Feeling misunderstood. Feeling devalued. Feeling abandoned. Many different events—some of them just chance occurrences during psychotherapy, and some of them deliberate therapeutic interventions by the psychotherapist—will trigger these emotions. (Experiencing these negative reactions to the psychotherapy process itself is called a negative transference.[2]) Just remember that when you feel an emotion in psychotherapy, the therapeutic task will be to name it as an emotion and understand it as an emotion—not get caught in it as if it were your helpless destiny. For if you get caught in it, you will feel victimized and will blame the psychotherapist for your pain, and the entire therapeutic process will feel like judgment and criticism. And then, in deep bitterness, you will want to “get away” from the psychotherapy just as you wanted to get away from the original emotions as a child.

Janedoe- WOW,that was interesting reading..Its such a weird thing- reading articles like this and feeling that someone actaully are writing about ME, not just patients in general, you know? Thank you janedoe, both for sharing your experience with your treatment (btw- i am very fascinated by the horse-therapy your in- but have to admit i know nothing about it, is it related to psychotherapy?) and for normalize all my stuff. I guess understanding these attachment stuff itself, isnt helpful- but it sure would be a relief for me to understand the deep uncounscious reasons for the intens feelings.. Both understand it With my head AND my heart! (ok, that sounded like a clichè..) - Along with a genuin feeling that its OK to feel whatever i feel and to be able to change what have to be changed.
I doubt sometimes i will ever know what my T actally feels towards me- and how he actually is attached to me- and He`s rather silent about all this “too personal” stuff, so that is why i desperatly tries to figure this out myself. Always speculate and wonder WHAT DOES MY T FEELS ABOUT ME? - He wont share his feelings With me. Never. Wont happen. He once said (but only once, and he wont repeat it, Because he told me just because i almost forced him! osh- thats another story) that the therapist (yeah, he sopke in 3.person, but referred at himself) will develope a feeling towards the client (me) similar to the way parents attache to theire child. "A mother/father feeling. Thats all he`s ever said about it. Well, and some few other things about me. But he`s havin a hard time being personal with me. So this is my old "battle" so it seems..


You seem to be tryin to "get rid of" or distance(?) some really strong emotions yourself janedoe- i hope your T can help you normalize and accept and contain that part, at least so you dont have to be to scared and overwhelmed.
Your "Reassurence-check" was very sweet.. I do things like that myself.. I`ll watch photos and walk around his office-place just to feel closer.. Normally one part of me freaks out while doing this "obsessive" things, but i cant help myself. Its emotions and drifts in me that seems stronger than i am able to controll. Desire maybe? To big, to overwhelming for me to "handle". Part of it is great, the energy in it, part of it is just deadly scary.

I relate to AG`s qote as well. I NEVER calls my T, i force and hold my self back from doin it, both in fear of being rejected and because i *pretend* i dont need him. Pride, pride, pride. Stupid thing. at least misunderstood lol!

Hello Frog

Hey it sounds like your T has left you with some pretty weighty things to think about while he’s away! Firstly well done you for being able to talk about your attachment to him (I can only imagine how scary and maybe shameful that feels? - for myself I’ve never felt attached to any T the most I can summon up is negative transference, but I can guess how difficult it all gets with such positive feelings for your T.)

Don’t know about connecting ‘too’ intensely, maybe it just feels weird because the feelings are so strong and you can’t work out where they are coming from? Sounds like the whole idea of reasons for why you feel such things being hidden away in your unconscious is scaring you (understandably!) I guess the only way you’re going to find out is to keep going into the feelings, keep talking about them with T - which is maybe why he persisted in questioning you about it all rather than interpreting for you. (And it’s good he is interested and wants to know, I’ve read about people having Ts who seem to completely ignore attachment feelings, or even worse, treat them as something that ‘interferes’ with therapy.) But remember, the fact that something is unknown is what makes it all the more scarier - it may well be that whatever is behind your strong feelings for T is nowhere near as terrible as you are fearing.

I suppose also it’s one thing knowing with your head where and how and why attachment feelings and the like surface, quite another to really ‘know’ it fully, to make the internal connections that give you the true sense of understanding what’s going on. But it does help to have the intellectual framework for such things too - I think for me if I didn’t have as much intellectual knowledge about therapy and my own psychological set up as I do, I’d be having a very hard and terrifying time trying to deal with the feelings I have. It’s so helpful to have a verbal/rational explanation for things that stops me drowning in totally irrational and alien emotions and thoughts, even though knowing it intellectually doesn’t actually change anything. It just helps

So Frog I hope you do get at least intellectually that you’re perfectly normal (even if your T hasn’t said as much) and that what you yourself want to do (keep on talking about these feelings) is actually the healing thing to do.

Also sounds like you’re really wanting some kind of declaration or explanation from him about how he personally feels about you - can I ask you something without it sounding manipulative? What would it be like for you if he did openly tell you that he cared about you, that he felt all sorts of good things for you? I’m asking because I wonder sometimes if the not knowing how a T personally feels, actually makes the need to have them care even stronger. For myself I rather like the ‘blank screen’ approach, lets me imagine all sorts of things that makes it easier for me to be open about my own feelings - if I knew in more concrete ways how a T felt about me, somehow that would change things - negatively - for me. But that’s just me and I think I’m the weird one for never having felt attached to a T.

Well Frog you’ve done pretty good while your T’s been away, only a couple of days and you’ll be seeing him again. Bet you’re looking forward to that

LL xxx

Frog
I am very much trying to push these feelings away, at the same time knowing the way to deal with them isn't by doing that. I'm not sure what to do though... but I really get what you are struggling with.

quote:

I doubt sometimes i will ever know what my T actally feels towards me- and how he actually is attached to me- and He`s rather silent about all this “too personal” stuff, so that is why i desperatly tries to figure this out myself. Always speculate and wonder WHAT DOES MY T FEELS ABOUT ME? - He wont share his feelings With me. Never. Wont happen. He once said (but only once, and he wont repeat it, Because he told me just because i almost forced him! osh- thats another story) that the therapist (yeah, he sopke in 3.person, but referred at himself) will develope a feeling towards the client (me) similar to the way parents attache to theire child. "A mother/father feeling. Thats all he`s ever said about it. Well, and some few other things about me. But he`s havin a hard time being personal with me. So this is my old "battle" so it seems..

I've never had "erotic" (like in sexual) feelings ever for my T, but I just realized that I do have a desire about wanting to know more about my T, especially what she is thinking of me, and that reminded me of this erotic transference on the same guidetopsychology site. The full article on that is here: Erotic Transference

I don't like all the way the author words everything about it, I dunno how accurate it all is, but, for me, this part of the article fits me well with how I felt with my old t, and wanting to know about them and what they felt towards me...

"As you begin to encounter genuine concern for your well-being, the whole experience of psychotherapy can feel overwhelming and intoxicating. Once having felt ignored and misunderstood, and now feeling noticed and understood—and not rejected—you can start to feel special. Moreover, you can begin to believe that the psychotherapist is special as well. When this happens, everything can take on a feeling of erotic “love.” You see quote marks around the word love in the last sentence because erotic feelings are really feelings of desire, not love. I want to know more about the psychotherapist’s personal life. I want to know what he or she likes. I want to be with him or her outside the psychotherapy sessions. I want to believe that he or she feels an attraction to me. And so on."

Knowing that doesn't help me change my feelings a lot, but it helps me realize what is going on for me (not saying this is the same for you, just how it is for me.) While I don't want my T to be "attracted" to me, and I'm not attracted to her, this is the first time in awhile (maybe ever) I have encountered such respect for my boundaries and such acceptance of me... I wonder if that is what is stirring up these intense feelings I am having about her. I'm not even sure what the feelings are, just that they are about her, or about my relationship with her - or maybe they are really about the way she treats me, rather than her as a person or specifically the relationship I have with her... hmm... (I'm litterally thinking as I type). I really like being treated the way she treats me...

what is it like for you when you want to know what your T is feeling about you and know more about your T? Are there things your T does that lead to you wanting to know about him more?

maybe his treatment of you is something that is good, so maybe, somewhat naturally, you want to know more about him as a person...? and maybe he is trying to be "neutral" - not revealing of himself - so that the focus can be on what you feel, rather than about him - which frankly, is hard for me too. I dunno... what do you think?

Anyhow, I certainly can relate about the feelings being really strong. I hope you too get a chance to talk more with your T and find a way to navigate these intense feelings without them being so overwhelming!

-jd

p.s. yeah, the eq t is actually a form of psychotherapy. We aren't ever in an office (although it's an option to always have a session in her office) but out in barns or pens or pastures with one or more horses, sometimes even a herd of horses. Horses are used because they are really sensitive to human emotions. They can mirror what people are feeling, or sometimes they respond to what I'm feeling. (One time I came to a session feeling scared about something that had happened before I got there, and one particular horse responded by acting very protective of me. It was so sweet and helped me sit with my fear and process it with the t. It kept me from ignoring my fears too.) Horses also have a hiearchial relationships with each other, within a herd of horses. Like there is a lead horse... all the way down to the horse or two horses that are at the "bottom" of a herd. There are all kinds of parallels to human relationships. Horses also give a way to practice different things I am learning in a different context - like communication, boundaries, ecterta. There are some horses that have been rescued, so that brings up other elements we use in the therapy as we talk. For example, watching a foal learn how to trust me becomes a way for me to talk and work through my own process of trusting humans with my T. (I dunno if that makes any sense at all.) It's been a good experience for me, and is really challenging me too!

(edited to take out one insigificant personal detail)

Dear Lamplighter. You have know idea how much i appreciated your words right now.
it is very generous and thoughtful of you to take time and reply- with so much effort and consideration.- Especially when I know that yore now in the mids of a difficult time yourself, providing and grieve over your beloved cat.

I`m temtated to copy your whole post and read it out loud to my T not gonna do that. Ì`m afraid ì`ll use up my reading - quote in session.
LL, its important for me to express, that your "lack of any strong attachment feelings"-certainly aint wrong or abnormal either. I think its rather normal and (ok- i KNOW you know this stuff, but i needed to let you know i also aknowlidge that feeling of "not feeling" you know?) maybe its jsut can be understood as something of the same as my attachment character-just understood with the very opposite variation? (hard to put this in english) And also- the negative transeference-feelings- hey- I RELATE TO THEM AS WELL! no doubt i often experience extreme variants of such feelings at the same time (numbness, indifferent, empty, hate, anger, disapoinment, need to hurt him etc. Looong destructive list!) at the SAME time(!) as i feel all the warm, thankful feelings. How many is there room for? So many emotions at the same time. How many can a person hold? - i`ve asked my self this questions over and over agian.

quote:

Don’t know about connecting ‘too’ intensely, maybe it just feels weird because the feelings are so strong and you can’t work out where they are coming from? Sounds like the whole idea of reasons for why you feel such things being hidden away in your unconscious is scaring you (understandably!) I guess the only way you’re going to find out is to keep going into the feelings, keep talking about them with T - which is maybe why he persisted in questioning you about it all rather than interpreting for you.

quote:

Yep, you right. I dont know where their coming from. Ok- I DO have some understanding of the strong attachment- since i know i early developed a very strong attachment to my father as well, and some of those feelings was arised/stirred up in me when i started in therapy with my T. And thei`re still there. So i would say i actually (i know it doestn comes across so clearly in my poster here, i must seem pretty naiv i guess ) have a pretty good "idea" about the attachment at least about attachment(transeference in general, and like you ll- i have some intellectual framework that keeps me from "loosing it" totally. You expressed it so beautifully and true ll.

The very NEW thing in my therapy now, that seem to be the very core issue- and my goal is simply just to be able to "answer" my T`s question: "Why do you think you became SO attached to me?" From the moment he asked,(last session) this question has revaged in me. But only the question is back. No answers..And my "thesis" and theoris about it seem to brist and fall apart. All of them. The question hangs there in midair and I cant manage to grasp it (neither with my intellect or with my emotions or my heart)i lack so much deeper understanding.

My T`s away (thanks for remembering that ll, i felt very "remembered" and cared for that you`ve noticed my T`s absence! Really!) and i know i have to talk about this furhter when he`s back, and even if that causes a lot of shame and embarrasing feeling and..all kinds of difficult things..- i will do it. Right now i cant wait. Still hate it. bleh.
You`re right about the good thing that my T`s willin to talk about it. Well, that means, he`s willin to let ME talk about it. And actually..that feels ok now. I will (at leat its my hope i`ll manage)allow myself to talk freely about it, and let him guide me with he`s questions and interpretations and suggestions into the deeper understanding of the attachment. He`s very good at that For me its just about being brave enough. Again and again.

quote:

Also sounds like you’re really wanting some kind of declaration or explanation from him about how he personally feels about you - can I ask you something without it sounding manipulative? What would it be like for you if he did openly tell you that he cared about you, that he felt all sorts of good things for you? I’m asking because I wonder sometimes if the not knowing how a T personally feels, actually makes the need to have them care even stronger.

quote:

"manipulative"
Thanks for asking- its a great and interesting question! (I like the socalled "manipulative" you ) Yes, indeed i want some kind of declaration and explanation from my T. Honestly? I want him to tell me he loves me and also share some of the same intens feelings. Yep. No. no? Gosh..its a hard one. I *think* you`ve hit a nerve here...hmm.. The need is definitly connected to "not knowing" and i thing for me- since i dont "have hes love"- it triggers some primitive competitive instinct in me, like "I will manage to get his love, even if its gonna cost me everything!" Its a lot of hidden aggression in such demand as well, dont you think?
Hehe, i just remembered something while writing this.. the first taime a vague told my T i felt in love with him, he said (yes, he actually spoke) it was a "express of strong ambition". I never knew what he ment (cause i never thought of myself in that way, at least not that falling in love, or whatever- you know what i mean- has anything to do with ambitions or disire to controll! That was an eye-opener to me!)


LL- it was so meny things in your reply that made me think. I know i`ve left out allot- from my heart ll- i am so thankful that you taking your time to reply to me when your havin a hard time yourself and please know nobody (included me) expects you to. You have so much integraded knowledge and wisdom that I value very highly, especially now that since my own "wisdom" sort of falling a bit apart.

take care LL. (((((ll))))
ps: Of corse i`m lookin forward to see T again. But, believe me, when the day comes, i`ll hate it. An i will regret everything that i`ve "planned" to talk about. Be prepared for frog`s update!

Janedoe- first: thanks for givin me a short brief about your therapy! Iam so found of horses myself! I am almost jelaous of your Therapy..

Thanks so much you too for your great reply and for being so personal with me. I dont have much time now so im sorry if this gets short.. I`ll love to answer your questions!

btw: I `ve read the link, it fits in so meny ways for my situation, espescially the last part
"I want to know what he or she likes. I want to be with him or her outside the psychotherapy :
sessions. I want to believe that he or she feels an attraction to me. And so on." Yep- right on spot there.

i wonder if your feeling of being so respected (is that a new experience to you?) and safe with the boundries and the accpetance are very universal "therapy-goods" thats awakens all this desires and needs in us to HAVE MORE OF IT! The boundries are definitly for me as well- a great safety-net which provides for all kinds of emotions to be expressed. No Limits/boundries, no security either. No safety, no love. No boundries- no rules. No rules no strong feelings either. Something like that. I can keep go on with this forever!

Its great you experience that she treats you so well JD. I think undoubtly that allot of this feelings we`re havin are connected- like you said- more to the "method"/the way we`re being treated, more than the person. But the distinction is hard to make, and maybe not so important?

quote:

what is it like for you when you want to know what your T is feeling about you and know more about your T? Are there things your T does that lead to you wanting to know about him more?
maybe his treatment of you is something that is good, so maybe, somewhat naturally, you want to know more about him as a person...? and maybe he is trying to be "neutral" - not revealing of himself - so that the focus can be on what you feel, rather than about him - which frankly, is hard for me too. I dunno... what do you think?

quote:

Whats its like for me..hmm.. Its like a constant wish..a hope that drives me, like.. I allways "check" and interpret his words and face-experession and i listen very carefully to his tone/voice in order to understand his moods and perhaps "pick up" some hints about wheter or not he`s glad or interested or ennoyed at me etc.. Just constantly "working" on it. Like its alfa&omega for me to find out what he feels and thinks. But i honestly dont know why it feels so important. There are rather things My T DONT DOES that leads me to this wanting to know. Not knowing, creates a strong wish TO KNOW! ...i mean..i dont bother so much knowing what he`s doing after work and what he did when i was 8 type of things, rather i want to know what my presence in the room with him does with him. What kind of inpact do i have on him? Does my emotions towards him (transeference) creates a similar intense emotion within HIM? (counter-transeference) you know? Gosh..its an obsessive activity, really. and i dont know why figure out this feels so important.. but its truly the most important "work" i do.
My T on the other hand- (than my "work") keeps workin on diggin and understanding more of me. LOL! iTS LIKE WE BOTH HAVE THE SAME PROJECT! COLLISION!


Janedoe- i have to go now, i`ll hope you will post about how your relation developes, i think youre dealing with both good and hard feelings at the same time now, and thats confuzing itself! When is your next appt.? Take care, and thanks again for your replies!
(can i have one - or two of those horses btw?? just send them over..i could need one great, wamr, huge animal to comfort me!)

quote:

Thanks again AG- i am actually very curious about how you managed to cope so well with all this, so i am glad its ok for you that i ask you further questions?

Frog,
You're really welcome and please feel free to ask further questions! I actually have a lot to say about the thread but am pressed for time right now. (I'm working a lot of overtime, I'm at the office right now, taking a short posting break. ) I'll try to get back soon with some of the stuff I've got to say. In the meantime, I think you're hearing a lot of good stuff!

AG

Frog

I have to tell you that somehow through this thread, a lightblub has come on for me about my own stuff. I've read about transference quite a bit, but something wasn't clicking about it for me, not in my experience of it, until feeling these intense feelings this past week and writing about it through this thread. I can't quite put it into words just yet...

Yeah, the kind of respect my t has for my boundaries and her acceptance of me and whatever I am feeling, is pretty new for me to experience. It's something that was completely missing when I was kid too. I am attached to the the horses and have a different set of reactions and feelings about too. My t said people often have very quick transference reactions to/with the horses and it's a very useful tool in the therapy with the client. Useful tool? all these intense feelings that sometimes get stirred up about what I feel about the horses, what I feel about my t are a useful tool? whew. I signed up for way more than I expected! I'm glad I did.

Does your t treat you in ways you have been missing or longing for in other areas of your life?

You are right, it is terribly hard to seperate the method from the person.

I'm noticing that how my t is with the horses, is the same she is with me. (she never overpowers them, is safe and gentle yet clear with them...) That helps me see that it is how she is generally, and helps me accept her method as being less contingent on how I am, and more just who she is, how she is, generally. And longing for it to never go. Yet being so scared of it.

I'm looking forward to my next appointment - this wednesday. I'm also scared and nervous and numb and totally not wanting to go too. (yep, I'm a mess.) We are supposed to talk about how to connect more w humans, what it will take, and how facing these feelings that get stirred up is a part of that. (ack!)
I wonder what my T thinks of me too. Sometimes I ask - sorta. I will share or say somthing about what I'm feeling, and ask, "is that weird?" She usually reassures me it's not weird - like she's not weirded out about me because I'm having whatever feeling or reaction. She's briefly mentioned feeling sweet and kind feelings for me a couple of times, and frankly, I got scared when she shared it, and yet was so comforted. Then I wanted to push her away and hate her, but I couldn't. ugh. I'm glad she shared those small comments though. It's hard for me when a t doesn't share anything at all. At the same time, the other extreme is very hard too. My old ex-t had very very strong counter-transference reaction to me, and she couldn't handle it, and the therapy ended very disaterously - including her running over all boundaries I had ever expressed...

I picture the farm (eq t equivalent of a t's office) and I have very fond feelings... I don't want to lose that sense of a safe place like the farm is for me... and i'm afraid I will do something that messes it up - which leads me to asking "is that weird?" a bit more often lately. My t has noticed, but she's walking with me through these feelings anyhow. I don't get it, but I'm glad for it.

I'm curious as to how things will go for you too. I hope you can keep working on and sorting through this stuff. It's tough! thanks for sharing your journey and process! keep posting! (if it's helpful for you)

~ jd

p.s. I'll send Jay your way, he's a super sweet morgan horse - oh, you will need his pal, Charlie too! he's very brave and yet gentle pony.

(edited to take out one insigificant personal detail)

quote:

I have to tell you that somehow through this thread, a lightblub has come on for me about my own stuff.

quote:

Such great news! I`m honored that my thread- and my issues- had a good effect on you! Its really a truth that by writing (expressing) ourselfs, we`ll gain some new thougts and perspectives, and if we`re lucky those are clearifyin and leads us forward. No worry you cant find the words just yet. I`t obviously a process goin on inside you. The words will come, when you`re ready. (take a spescial notice of your dreams these days, there might be allot of "info" and non-verbal stuff in them now?!)

quote:

Does your t treat you in ways you have been missing or longing for in other areas of your life?

quote:

It`s a good question. I`ve been thinking about this lately, and i am a bit overwhelmed by the new "insight" i reached: The answer is lately YES. I think i`ve missed and longed for this treatment my whole life. (Even though i have to admit, i always *thought* i had all this "good stuff" in my childhood..) I`m not used to allow my self being just ME, expressing my stuff- and recieve so much respect and understanding. Like my T, takes me so seriously, you know? Being so interested in all my (in my opinion irrelevant stuff) thoughts and dreams etc.. This is a very new insight, so -like you- i dond seem to find the words/understanding just yet..

quote:

And longing for it to never go. Yet being so scared of it.

I'm also scared and nervous and numb and totally not wanting to go too.

quote:

Yep- thats the paradox. I SO relate. This is really a core-problem or core-feeling in my therapy (or in me?). Constantly longing for the sessions, but as i arrive- i`ll almost panick and feel the urge to run away. You aint messed up janedoe. If so- i?m even more messsed up, i`ll tell you This paradoxal-emotions are attachment-feelings per exellence(?) and just the "push-and pull" dynamics interferiing. Its really hard sometimes, experience this. FWIF: After sometime, the fear and scary-feeling will fade away and the good/safe emotions will enter with more power. But it takes time and allot of trust to be build, i think. So, dont be afraid you`ll mess it all up.. i KNOW thats easy to think/fear- but dont let that burdening though catch up on you! You wont mess it up. For a year i was sure (ok, sometimes still) i would mess it up- all the good stuff- just because it seemed to be the only natural thing, i thought, that something good, would be taken away from me again...but..hey- my T`s still here, and i now doubt i CAN mess it up, even if i tried to, you know?



My next appt is monday. A week more.. I\Ll hang in there, and i`ll actually gonna try not to plan anythnig, just maybe gather some bravery in order to be able to face him and tell him about my strugglings with my feelings for him.. I dunno. I`ll propably post about it when i know for sure.. Thanks for asking and thanks for sharing so much important with me Janedoe! You`re so sweet and genuin!

Good luck with your session wed.!! I`ll bet your nervous and numb- yet long for the session-- dont be afraid, and tell us about it if you want to!

ps: Thanks for the horses. They`re geat! Charlie`s bravery really inspires me

No Limits/boundries, no security either. No safety, no love. No boundries- no rules. No rules no strong feelings either. Something like that. I can keep go on with this forever!

Hi, froggy...I've been reading through your thread and all the excellent responses you've gotten...and this just jumpeed out at me, since I also experience so much the same thing...especially, the bit about "no rules, no strong feelings, either." There is something important there, I think.

I have to realte this back to my childhood, somehow, I guess...that sense of being "set adrift" with no guideposts, no intervention, no care, no...anything. I'm starting to see more clearly how these old unresolved feelings are coming out in the therapy...and it sounds like you are going in the same kind of direction. You are inspiring me with this thread to be able to talk to my T, I hope, in acouple of weeks....let us know how your session goes...

xo,

Beebs

oooo, I really sorry Teta...I just wanted to add, that quote was Froggy's which was quoted by me...sorry that I didn't make it clear enough, Froggy. It's a good quote..which is why I quoted it! I think you expressed really beautifully something really important...has to do with boundaries or something like that...needing a strong presence, badly. Protection, care from a father figure...or something.

How are you doing today, Froggy?

BB

Hi there Frog how you doing?

I’m sorry I thought you were going to be seeing your T again last Monday, but it seems like it’s not until next Monday - that’s quite some time! I hope you are ok and not getting too wound up about the attachment question your T left you with last session.

I`m not used to allow my self being just ME, expressing my stuff- and recieve so much respect and understanding.

Hey Frog that makes me sad to read that - it makes me think of you having to hide and control all the good things about you over the years. And I’m glad too that now you are getting that respect and understanding (that maybe you didn’t even know could exist?). You SO deserve it!

Wish I had more to say about attachment, but haven’t a clue so can’t even offer educated (lol) guesses.

Just want to wish you well and send you lots of cyber hugs

LL

Beebee Thanks- i am so glad you also found this thrread and the responses helpful. And i am honored that you qoted me- (sweet little intermezzo it caused with you and teta!)
Yes, indeed i think i am going in the same direction.. Lots of unresolved emotions entereing the surface- and i didnt even recognize before reading JD`s response, - that i might have missed kindness, respect and understanding my whole life..
I`am a bit humble with the inspirations thing- and i feel i have to admitt to you- that i might not talk about all this with my T on monday.. If my T dont bring it up a\or take any guidence into the current question ("Why did you became so attached to me?") i dont know if i`ll manage to take the lead and bring it up.. I really dunno, and i dont plan it either. Thanks again, and sure i`ll let you know how the session will go. Right know, am just worried that the whole thing will be forgotten and that seeing him, facing my T, just gonna make me numb and speachless about the whole thing..
God Luck to you talking to your T. In acouple of weeks? are there vacations over there as well?

Teta- thanks for responding- youre right- i DO feel better now, of course because its only 5 days more until my T returns!! I have managed ok during his absence, and i bet its because of all the support i feel from you people here on forum! Thanks-
And Teta- keep writing/reading and posting- i know its hard with the language, but you`re doing great! Dont worry that you cant express yourself perfect- i relate to those language-issues, i am neither a native, so i know it takes allot of effort and strugglings to find the right words! Thombs up for you!

Dear Lamplighter! The moment i entered the main-site of this forum and saw your name- my heart jumped for a second- i was so glad to see you`re back! (i know you`re in pain, and again; i am very sorry for you loss!)

Dont you dare think that you have to sorry that you thougt mixed the monday-session (i almost mixed it up my self- last monday i had to check my book and see if there was any apoinments with my T!) - I have only thankful feelings regard to you and your responses and i am glad to tell you i manage pretty ok during my T`s absence and that is- i know- thanks to you people that gives me so much support and caring questions and widsom.- Youre on the spot (how do you manage to do that?) about me feeling that i have to hide and controll. I was a very trubbling, wild, energic child and i quicly (painfully) learned from other autorothy figures to "change behaviour" and learned/felt that "i" was wrong and needed to hide and limitade myself in order not to get punished and yelled at.. Yes- that is sad, and i do aknowlidge that now,(i actually also allow myself to "selfpitty" over this!) and therefore i also yearn and long for my T`s total acceptance of the whole me, and slowly, veeeeeeeery slowly, i kreep out of my little cave. Its like my T`s standing outside of the cave and gently waits for me to come out in the light..heheYou`re right I DIDNT EVEN NEW IT EXISTED! only intellectual.. not for me. But now i know. I think that summarize my whole therapy: From day one it has ben a blessing and a fight. I fighted myself, my T, my past, my future, my emotions, the boundries, the relations, the good feelings and the bad feelings, the clock (lol- i know you relate to T`s clocks!) and the setting.

Thanks for wishing me well ll- i`ll try to actually not plan anything for the session, i have some bad experiences about planing and getting to fixaded on a sertain "plan for the session" thing.. i dunno..maybe its just me getting cold feets..

Sending a buch of cyber-hugs right back at ya! (dunno how to make the icons, So you have to imagine it LL!)

Frog, unfortunately I don't have time to read and respond to this right now but I did just read your last post and wanted to say that I find your English so beautiful and endearing, it puts a smile on my face

[QUOTE]
i also yearn and long for my T`s total acceptance of the whole me, and slowly, veeeeeeeery slowly, i kreep out of my little cave. Its like my T`s standing outside of the cave and gently waits for me to come out in the light..heheQUOTE]

Love this image.

Butterfly

Aw Frog thanks for my hugs - that means a lot to me.

You know I reckon you're right on about not going into session with an agenda - I've found that the worst sessions I have are those where I've gone in with a headful of prepared things that I *must talk about* - for some reason that seems to upset the therapy - probably because I have preconceptions about how T is supposed to respond. And anyway, your attachment isn't going to run away and hide anytime soon is it? Plenty of time for you to bring it up whenever you feel more comfortable talking about it.

Hey only 4 days to go till he's back. Hope you are being nice to yourself while you're waiting.



LL