The question of touch is a tough one in therapy. There are good arguments on both sides. My previous P would not engage in any kind of touch. So, sometimes I'd bring my husband along to give me a hug after the session. I also found that the session itself felt like it was hugging me. (My P described this as a holding environment) Sort of hard to describe but I was ok with no touch.

I do think the connection you have with your T is probably more important then the question of touch alone. If you are yearning for her touch, then this is probably a good subject to discuss with her.

Hi whereamI! I don't think I've met you before... I'm glad you're here! I really believe the issue of touch in therapy is extremely important... whether the answer from out p's/t's is a yes or a no. To me, the most important thing to consider is WHY you want it... that is some of what I work on with my t, who also has a no touch policy.

There's this thread on here called "Hugs in Therapy" that you might find interesting if you haven't read it. Here's an excerpt from one of my posts on that thread that I think applies to your question:

--My T has a "no touch" policy. She doesn't hug, shake hands, pat on the back or anything.

I have actually refrained from posting on this subject before because it is so very painful for me. I have asked her and asked her and asked her for any type of physical touch. She always tells me no, that she can't. I tell her I need to know that she isn't repulsed by me and that she really does care about me- I feel like physical touch is the only way I will ever know. She remains steadfast, but it is truly the worst rejection I have ever experienced in my life. I have even told her that she could beat me if she wanted to- ANYTHING!

I know she is careful with me because my most recent transference experience, prior to her, turned sexual. My wires are very crossed when it comes to sexuality and nuturance. She knows this and knows that I have fantasized about her sexually as well. I know she wants me to learn to trust her words, but it feels absolutely awful. I just want some physical acknowledgement that she really does accept me- I always wonder if her words are true, but I believe that I can trust touch.--

You can also read more on my specific interactions with my t regarding this subjecthere.

I hope you have found some of these links helpful or at least have some comfort that you are not alone. I'm not sure if you crave touch in from your t in a maternal manner or sexual manner or just as validation in general, but there is a quote from a book called "In Session" that I really like. It often reminds me why my T can't go back and be my mother and hold me... why she CAN'T treat me as though I am completely still a child AND honor me as an adult. It reads as follows:

In Session, pg 177
"It's naive to assume that an adult's fantasy of perfect mothering is a simple wish. Whatever happened in childhood, whatever the child internalized, has all been confounded by the years of feelings and experiences that have occurred since. Beneath the surface of the client's plea for a good mother may reside a complex of irreconcilable wishes. To try and fulfill any one of them is to deny the woman's history and to deprive her of the right to grieve what was lost and to own the ways she has compensated for her losses."

Hope my words help.
-CT

Z and CT Thanks so much for your replies. They are kind and very helpful.

CT, your words were all very helpful. . . I know what I am seeking is maternal touch, and also a lot of reassurance. I have written about it, tried to talk about it with my T, fantasized about it. . .you name it. There are so many little girl feelings involved, and the need feels so strong that it can really be overwhelming, so when my T refuses any physical contact, it definately feels like rejection, and it just makes that need feel even greater. I did feel alone in these feelings, I appreciate your thoughtful response, and the posts, all really help.

My biggest problem now, I guess, is that I know that won't be a part of what I can have with my T. I don't know how to stop--or at least lessen the intensity-- of the feelings of needing that contact, because whenever we are together that need feels so strong, I don't know what to do with them. My T and I talked about it a while ago, I told her what I felt, and she (kindly) reiterated. . .again and again. . .her no touch policy (or I should say, at least as it pertains to me, because I have no idea what her general "policy" is).

CT, I agree that this is an extemely painful subject. It is hard for me to write about, because I find it so difficult. I wish I got more direction from my T about why it has to be this way. I felt like I made so much progress in trusting my T, and now I feel like there is a great big hurdle that I can never get over.

I am definately going to get In Session--it sounds like a wonderful book. Thanks for all of your insight and help.

whereami

Hello! I don't think we've met before.

I'm not sure if you read the hugs in therapy link. If you did, you read my experiences. My T has a physical relationship with me. It's safe. There's nothing sexual. And, I'm not sexually attracted to her in any way, although she's absolutely beautiful. She rubs my back and holds my hand every session. I don't NEED this from her, but it helps to meet some of my needs.
I'm quite a physical person. I move a lot. I like kinesthetic feedback. It calms me. It grounds me. I feel very fortunate, and it works for me.



I would suggest continuing to talk about it any time you have the feeling that you're talking about. Talking about these things decreases the intensity. So that she doesn't feel like she needs to reiterate her policy again and again, you might want to tell her that you feel like you should continue to explore your feelings about it in order to come to some resolution. I find that talking about the intense feelings that I have about my T with her is very healing.

All of us have things that we REALLY want from our T's that they have boundaries about. Some of us want to be friends with our Ts. Some of us want our Ts to be our moms (That's me!). Some of us want to have sex with our Ts. Some of us want to speak with our Ts on a daily basis. Some of us want to be able to e-mail our Ts. Some of us want to know personal things about our Ts. Some of us want some type of physical contact with our Ts.

So, in this way, you're not alone.

These things that we want are fodder for great learning about ourselves when we and our Ts are willing to discuss the issues and dig deep into ourselves.

Good luck to you and keep us posted!

cat

Hello again whereamI! I'm glad you seem to being finding a place to work on things here.

I just wanted to say that I COMPLETELY agree with Z and CG when they said:

quote:

If you are yearning for her touch, then this is probably a good subject to discuss with her.

and

QUOTE] I would suggest continuing to talk about it any time you have the feeling that you're talking about. Talking about these things decreases the intensity. So that she doesn't feel like she needs to reiterate her policy again and again, you might want to tell her that you feel like you should continue to explore your feelings about it in order to come to some resolution. I find that talking about the intense feelings that I have about my T with her is very healing. [/QUOTE]

The only way some of my pain has lessened is through talking to my t about the issue. I made clear to her that I wasn't trying to convince her or talk her into it, but I had these really intense feelings that were OVERTAKING me. She helped me explore them- and still does. I find the niceset part about talking to her is the validation... the understanding. She fully understands why I want the things I want, but for me, giving it to me would be more damaging to me than the rejection I feel. Plus, what feels like rejection isn't necessarily rejection (mind you that's usually easier said than felt). She always tells me that she isn't rejecting me, but she is refusing to exploit me... not that all physicial touch is exploitation by any means, but in my case, I learned from an earlly age to meet my needs by physically meeting others' needs (i.e. I would hold my mother and comfort her to feel loved when I was a child). I actually asked my t once if she would please exploit me... oh the things you never think you'd hear yourself say!

Anyway, I'm rambling, but sometimes, no matter what we think, we have to trust that our t's might have some reasoning behind what they do. And I'm pretty confident that addressing this further with your t will bring to light some new (or old) things for you and her to work on together. I know it's hard and it sucks, but I think you are brave for facing this and I believe you and her can work on this together.

Regarding In Session, I personally found it wonderful and enlightening. There is a book discussion thread on here somewhere about it... some people found the book quite unpleasant and very challenging to get through. I'd like to know what you think if you read it.

-CT

Oh yeah,

I also forgot to say that I got the book In Session from the library. It's quite an expensive book. I've checked it out a couple of times since then, when I wanted to re-read something. But, I'm not planning on being in therapy FOREVER, just close to it, and when I'm done, I won't want to have the book sitting on my shelf forever. I'm rambling on and on to say you might want to see if your local library carries it if you're not sure at this point if you want to own it.

Also, I was one of those people who didn't like it very much. It reminded me too much that I'm in therapy. That my therapist is not my friend, and she's not my mom. It made me begin to second guess my whole relationship, and the validity of my whole relationship with my T.

At this point, I prefer to just keep going to therapy and trust my T and myself and the process.

cat

Thanks so much, CT and Cat. I think maybe what I have been missing is what you said, CT, validation. I think that would go a long way for me.

I wish I could convince myself that I was no longer trying to convince her! CT,that must have been such a big step! I am impressed that you can do that.

I do definately believes--the logical side of me when I can get there--that she has some reasoning that she beleives is the best for me, and that is what is behind it.

I am definately going to bring this up with my T again. I guess the problem I have had is that I have gotten scared that if I keep bringing it up I will actually push her away. That is the last thing I want to do.

In some ways, I also think the child in me has just been stuck in basically tantruming that I can't get my way.

whereamI,

These are all good things to talk with your T about. I don't know what your childhood was like, or what your relationship with your parents was like. But, this relationship with your T gives you a chance to work through things that hurt with someone who can hear what you're saying, validate your feelings, and still maintain boundaries. Tell her that you're afraid of pushing her away. When you open up about these feelings, then you might be able to dig deeper and find some of the root issues that you have going on.

Also, you said something in an earlier post as if you questioned whether this was your T's general policy, or if it's only for you. In my opinion, I would think that if it wasn't her general policy, she wouldn't have said that. If, for example, she has a reason to make it exclusive to you, I would think that she would say something like, "I'm thinking that I need to be careful and set firm boundaries with you, because . . ." rather than "It's my policy." Why don't you ask her. If you learn that it's not exclusively about you, then it might lessen the feeling of rejection a bit.

Good luck to you!

cat

quote:

I wish I could convince myself that I was no longer trying to convince her! CT,that must have been such a big step! I am impressed that you can do that.

Thank you whereamI. I will add, however, that it's more of a "I know I can't convince her" than a "I don't want to convince her," if that makes sense? I guess, for me, it came down to me understanding that no matter what I do or what I want, I will not change her mind. I may wish at times that I could change her mind, but I know that it will never happen. I trust that what she is doing is what I need.

I say all this because I think it's important to look at the difference between longing to change her mind and thinking you're going to.

quote:

In some ways, I also think the child in me has just been stuck in basically tantruming that I can't get my way.

I totally getcha on this one!!!!

-CT

CT

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
I say all this because I think it's important to look at the difference between longing to change her mind and thinking you're going to.

I get this. I definately need to look at the dfference between those to! I Definately long to change her mind, and I am not sure if I actually believe that I might! I want to trust that sheis doing what I need, but I feel, well. . . needy!

Cat, I think I have been afraid to directly ask whether the policy is directly directed toward me or general, because I am afraid I might not like the answer and might not be able to tolerate the hurt. I guess that is all part of the healing process.

CT and Cat. . .thanks for all of your warm responses. It really helps.

whereami

Hi whereamI,

I can relate to what you wrote here in regards to maybe you can change your therapists mind--A part of me still thinks if I was 'good enough' or looked like my twin brother...I could get my therapist to change her mind and cross her boundaries with me, etc--which I soo long for her to do...I ache for touch/so hungry for it( I think I might even see a massage therapist to satisfy this hunger of mine...I don't know..)mlc

quote:

Originally posted by mlc:
( I think I might even see a massage therapist to satisfy this hunger of mine...I don't know..)

I go to a massage therapist regularly (every other week) and I find it helpful. I spend the hour trying to focus on the touch and not worry about anything else, I'm more successful some weeks then other weeks I keep a lot of tension in my shoulders, which is why I started going in the first place, so it helps keep them under control too.

If you are interested, I recommend you give it a try. (Assuming you can afford it.) If you stick with one masseuse, over time they learn where you get tense and what you do and don't like, so the massages get better!

This is my thread sidetracking for the day

Heather and mlc.

Thanks for your posts. I think the ideea of massage is awesome. I really do crave that phyical contact from my t, but I know that is not happening! Heather, does your current t also have a no-touch policy. . .you mentioned a past t did.

mlc. . .I too wonder all of the time if there is something I could do better or be better to change my t's mind. I have started talking about my need for her touch again. So far it is not going very well. I feel we are doing a dance. . .she feels it would not actually meet my needs, and I am so certain it would! It is so incredibly frustrating. I don't know how I am supposed to be in a trusting, intimate relationship without that aspect to it?

whereami

quote:

Originally posted by whereamI:
Heather, does your current t also have a no-touch policy. . .you mentioned a past t did.

My current T will hold my hands whenever I'm struggling, or if I ask. (I haven't had the courage to ask yet, but he assures me that he will when I do.) He ends up holding my hands about half of each session. If I'm really having a tough time, he will rub my back and shoulders. He also will wipe my tears from my face after I start leaking.

For me, when I'm talking about something that's hard and I want to go silent, when he squeezes my hands it keeps me present so I can keep talking. He can tell when that's happening and I find it really helpful. It feels like an anchor keeping me with him instead of floating away in my mind.

Both my T's were good and I responded well to both of them, and they both had very different approaches.

You guys are all so brave. You impress me with how candid you are about some of the most painful topics (heart wrenching feelings really) that people can experience.

I find that touch is very important to me in therapy. I don't know if I'd see a T who refused any sort of touch at all. Perhaps I should explore that!

I am seeing a new T now and I have an odd problem with her considering that I do welcome touch. I feel sort of like she is invading my personal space sometimes. I know she means absolutely no harm but I find myself getting all tight in my body and wanting to bury myself further into the couch. She sits in an office chair and sometimes she rolls it right up to me and is almost knees to knees with me while we talk. I am afraid to say anything because I don't want to make her think that I would never want that but it's just it takes me time to get to know people and so far she is still a stranger to me. So when she gets that close and doesn't move away my body tenses up. I have almost asked her to scoot back a little bit but again I am unsure about this.

[ She sits in an office chair and sometimes she rolls it right up to me and is almost knees to knees with me while we talk. I am afraid to say anything because I don't want to make her think that I would never want that but it's just it takes me time to get to know people and so far she is still a stranger to me. So when she gets that close and doesn't move away my body tenses up. I have almost asked her to scoot back a little bit but again I am unsure about this.[/QUOTE]


Hi Jo.

It took me a long time to get the courage to tell my T that I needed touch, so i know how hard that can be. If it is too hard to be direct right now, maybe you could be lighthearted and maybe even "suggest" that you need to stretch out your legs a bit. Just a though. Maybe the combination of your body language and the hint with get the message across!

whereami

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:

There's this thread on here called "Hugs in Therapy" that you might find interesting if you haven't read it.
---CT

Hi CT--I have gone back several times and read the thread, and specifically many of the things you have written. Your words are so helpful. Every session with my T right now seems to be a dance--I keep crying about how much I need touch and she keeps pushing me to sit with how sad I am that I can't get it. It is maddening! Today, I had the hugest urge to go for the poke, and just take the damn touch into my own hands! When I thought about your post, it completely made my day! I tried to imagine what the heck my T would do, and the surprise, but then I wonder, is there anything i could do anymore that would actually surprise my T? Anyway, your post really made a difference to me, and sparked a great impulse! Thanks

whereami

My parents are elderly and they both have these gripper things they use to grab things off the ground etc. It looks like this:


Anyway I had this vision of you suddenly whipping one of these out with the graspers extended and saying "Won't you hold my hand?"

Hi Jo. That is awesome! Now I feel like bringing a prop with me. . . Thanks for putting a smile on my face after what has otherwise been a really crappy day!

whereamI

I think it would be funny!!

Sort of chiding her for her no touch rule!

WhereamI-

quote:

Hi CT--I have gone back several times and read the thread, and specifically many of the things you have written. Your words are so helpful.

Wow, whereamI, I'm glad that my words are helpful to you. Thanks for letting me know!

quote:

Today, I had the hugest urge to go for the poke, and just take the damn touch into my own hands! When I thought about your post, it completely made my day! I tried to imagine what the heck my T would do, and the surprise, but then I wonder, is there anything i could do anymore that would actually surprise my T?

Well, what can i say, it is fun to imagine what our t's would do if we randomly messed with them! I mean, sometimes it truly feels (to me) like I am that kid who has been told "don't touch that!" but decides to look mom in the eye while I SLOWLY touch it, just to cross the line and see what will happen! Unfortunately, when I told my t of my poking plot... she wasn't really all that amused. She said "I see the playfulness in it, but I don't think it is an innocent as you think it it." LLAAAMMMMEEEE Do they have to take the fun out of EVERYTHING? Them and their BoUnDaRiEs..... I'm still tempted to do a lil pump-fake when I hand her my check... I kinda wanna know if she'd flinch or something... ahhh, the power seems so attractive, but I guess, at the end of the day, I don't pay her so that I won't listen to her. I trust that she does, indeed, know what I need, and if sitting with the awfulness of no touch is what I need, then I guess that is what I have to do.

Jo-

quote:

Anyway I had this vision of you suddenly whipping one of these out with the graspers extended and saying "Won't you hold my hand?"

Dude, you are brilliant!!!! That would be SSSSOOOOOOOO funny..... I wonder what my t would do with THAT!

-CT

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
Unfortunately, when I told my t of my poking plot... she wasn't really all that amused. She said "I see the playfulness in it, but I don't think it is an innocent as you think it it."

So lame. Our Ts need to lighten up a little bit. We have to have our fun tooQ

I'm still tempted to do a lil pump-fake when I hand her my check... I kinda wanna know if she'd flinch or something... ahhh, the power seems so attractive,

Gotta admit, that playful impulse gets pretty overpowering when I give my T her check. Its just such a prime opportunity to grab that physical contact!!! Its fun to think about anyway, even if in the end, sigh, those #@$%#@@ boundries get in the way.

whereamI

Hey sorry CT, I am not good with using quotes yet. It looks like it did not work in my last post when I tried to quote from your post!.